With respect, unless you have the antibodies I am somewhat skeptical. Did you or anybody you associate with travel to Wuhan? Being negative for one strain of flu does not make the leap to covid 19.

I cannot say that I know. I was sick with symptoms unlike any I've had before and for a significantly longer than usual.

It is also worth adding that the rapid flu tests they run at most clinics and offices is pretty dang unreliable and a negative result is really worthless.

I’m pretty sure they only exist because they are something they can bill for.

It's not going to be as simple as flipping the Open sign on the economy:
https://apnews.com/fc3fd61524f39e9fb2962c8db22d00d8

"...
The Oklahoma City Convention and Visitors Bureau estimated the city pulled in $14.4 million from the WCWS last year. This year’s projection ranged between $23.6 million and $27 million.

Sue Hollenbeck, director of sports business for the bureau, said the Bricktown neightborhood will take the biggest hit without fans coming for the championship over the better part of a week.

“They’d eat at all the restaurants, go to the bars, get on the water taxi, do the shopping,” she said. “Anything and everything they could do, they would do when they weren’t at the stadium.”

David Southard, owner of Jazmo’z Bourbon Street Cafe, said his Bricktown restaurant with 70 employees is closed. He said the WCWS has been good for business for the past 20 years but it won’t be part of his plans to reopen this spring.

“It brings a lot of people in from all over the country,” he said. “The hotels are full. Often, we get reservations for large groups, two hours before they come, and it’s 20 people.”
... "

As far as Mangum, one of the tv stations had a bit on their website about it. I think someone brought it into a nursing home and it spread around there and from there to the community.

It was an evangelical minister from Tulsa. He brought it to a church and a nursing home. He has since died from the virus. Four people in Mangum have died and nearly 50 have tested positive in Greer County, which has a total population of 6,000.

Mr. Blue Sky, I am interested in evolutionary biology as well as the history of medicine, so thank you for including that link!

Whenever people talk about "opening the economy" it's important to discuss a detailed plan for what that entails. It's going to be interesting to see how this happens on federal, state, and city levels. I thought this Dallas Morning News article did a good job of walking through steps, policies, and plans for changing current policies:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public-health/2020/04/12/when-can-social-distancing-end-back-to-normal-could-be-a-ways-off/

Numbers just updated for Monday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona041320a.jpg

^^^ Good numbers again!!

The hospitalization rate is encouraging.

The hospitalization rate is encouraging.

Should be interesting to compare the Monday numbers to last weeks when they come in tomorrow.

The numbers continue to show a much lower daily case rate than that used in the OHD peak projections, which were in the 250-300 and up range IIRC. This would hopefully imply their estimated peak of 9,300 will prove quite high. Reaching that number by May 1 now would require a daily delta in the range of 430, and it's yet to be remotely that high thus far.

The number of hospitalizations is good but the daily numbers keep going up. I just don't see how this is a good thing. I'm sure many have recovered but how are you going to open things back up when 100 plus people a day are coming back positive?

I am hoping a lot of people stayed in for Easter. It is a big family holiday and I hope it doesn't cause in uptick in the next week.

The hospitalization rate is encouraging.

Still don't know if the hospitalizations include all the federal hospitals in the state and whether the deaths include nursing homes and veteran centers.

The big takeaway from these numbers is the growth rate in positives is decreasing. As we get more and more testing data back, and our testing "throughput" as it were increases, we're getting an increasingly better feel for the real shape of data. No, it is not at all perfect - the exact number of tests being returned each day still isn't entirely clear, we don't have numbers on repeat tests, and we have numbers still influenced by early rules requiring specific symptoms. But the data is better now than it was.

I've done some of my own analysis of the numbers from the ODH peak projection chart and am even more thoroughly convinced now than I was before that their projections are entirely too severe. From their chart, starting 3/22 through today, they are projecting an almost constantly increasing daily growth rate - one that started higher than the earliest actual rate and continuing through today at just under 3x the actual number of new cases.

A three-day moving average of actual new cases going back to 3/22 shows a peak of 146, and that included the one single worst day so far (171 new cases). The ODH projections for that day were in a range from 200-220. (I am having to interpolate data from their graph legend, which only shows every-other-day dates and no actual numbers). As of today, which has an actual daily delta of 99 new cases (and a 3-day moving average of 92), the ODH projection expects 275 new cases!

The new case projection used by the ODH simply isn't matching reality, and often by a factor of 2-3x. And I also notice that their model uses an infection basis of 3.8, rather than the 2.5 that I have seen in most similar types of projections.

As of today (4/13), for their current scenario of 9,300 projected cases by May 1 to be realized (17 days), we would have to average 425 cases per day each day between now and then - a number that is 3x higher than the worst 3-day moving average to date, and 2.5x higher than the worst single-day new case delta to date (171 on 4/4).

THis is further reinforced by the fact that our current new-case doubling rate is now only fractionally under 10 days (2069 on 4/13, compared to 988 on 4/3 or 1159 on 4/4). If we project that doubling rate to persist (which isn't supported with the current daily case data), doubling for two iterations over the next 20 days would still bring us to 8,276 cases on May 3. However, the current 3-day rolling average of 92 new cases would require *22* days to double - even the worst rolling average day in the last three (114.7) would require *18* days to double - and even then, to a number less than *half* the projected 9,300 cases (4,138).

I realize this is very long, and I haven't even added analyses for hospitalizations or deaths, but my overall point is to encourage everyone that hears that ODH projection peak data presented as gospel should be very wary of that report. The experiential data we are seeing on a day-to-day basis, imperfect though it may be, is showing us a picture that is not consistent with ODH projections. We have a lower daily case rate, a steady or slightly declining average delta case rate, and an overall delta well below their projections. It would be my hope that the folks at ODH, who I'm sure are trying their best to keep this data straight, might revisit this projection.

I just went out today (to Sam's for necessities) for the first time in several days and the traffic on May Avenue was quite heavy.

A friend from California passed through OKC on Friday and said there was way more traffic here than in Southern Cal.

I think people here are doing a poor job of staying home in general.

I just went out today (to Sam's for necessities) for the first time in several days and the traffic on May Avenue was quite heavy.

A friend from California passed through OKC on Friday and said there was way more traffic here than in Southern Cal.

I think people here are doing a poor job of staying home in general.l-a

When my friends tell me that Braums Drive thru has 350 cars already by 5pm today your probably right. That is just for one not so busy store either. I wonder how many chick-fil-a is pumping thru a day. Not that the risk is low but there still a risk there.

I just went out today (to Sam's for necessities) for the first time in several days and the traffic on May Avenue was quite heavy.

A friend from California passed through OKC on Friday and said there was way more traffic here than in Southern Cal.

I think people here are doing a poor job of staying home in general.I’ve thought that there’s a lot more traffic than I would consider “essential“. I have tried to be absolutely compliant. For three weeks I’ve gone to work. Stop for gas and groceries on the way to or from work. Went to Johnnies once one weekend and Chilis once on another. Other than that I’ve been at home. My wife only goes to work, nowhere else. I’ve ordered more for delivery on Walmart and Amazon in three weeks than in three years. I am finding however that I’m not made for this. I’m going majorly stir crazy. But I’ll pull through fir the cause.

I’ve thought that there’s a lot more traffic than I would consider “essential“. I have tried to be absolutely compliant. For three weeks I’ve gone to work. Stop for gas and groceries on the way to or from work. Went to Johnnies once one weekend and Chilis once on another. Other than that I’ve been at home. My wife only goes to work, nowhere else. I’ve ordered more for delivery on Walmart and Amazon in three weeks than in three years. I am finding however that I’m not made for this. I’m going majorly stir crazy. But I’ll pull through fir the cause.


Same here. First time I ever used Walmart pick up. In the last month I have gotten Gas once, did walmart pick up and chick-fil-a same day, and used Walgreen drive thru for some prescriptions. Work and back that's been it. Roomie who is older have been to braums once for milk. I'm lucky my job is a one person at a time office. We wait outside for the other person to leave after they have cleaned everything then we go in.

After using WalMart and Sam's grocery apps, which admittedly included one bad experience, I doubt I'll go back into a grocery store until all this is over. Never get out of your car, they place items in trunk, and then you wash/wipe them as needed when you get home. Zero contact with, well, anyone. Last trip to the store lasted us 10 days, IIRC.

I just went out today (to Sam's for necessities) for the first time in several days and the traffic on May Avenue was quite heavy.

A friend from California passed through OKC on Friday and said there was way more traffic here than in Southern Cal.

I think people here are doing a poor job of staying home in general.

Agree. Went out in a car for first time in 2 weeks. Lots of people out at 4pm on a Monday. Yikes.

Three weeks travel outside the home...

One visit to the drive through or pick up at Homeland Pharmacy, Walgreens Pharmacy, Walmart Fresh Market, Target. All of those were in the last week. Neither of us have been inside a building other than our house.

3 trips to Lake Overholser for exercise. I live close by.

Sunday drive a week ago from west OKC to downtown and back to look at the empty streets, Scissortail and what might be blooming. We didn't stop or get out anywhere.

Agree. Went out in a car for first time in 2 weeks. Lots of people out at 4pm on a Monday. Yikes.

That is the beginning of the evening rush in commuter traffic, which is way down from it's average

My sister says the COVID numbers at her hospital in the OKC metro are way down and they have significant vacancies. Good for COVID but bad for their operating revenue. She's starting to feel that, while understanding the need for an abundance of caution, the state-official peak needs to be moved behind us. Keep fingers crossed.

Colorado has acknowledged we are at or past the peak, now.

Reported US coronavirus deaths:

Feb. 13: 0 deaths
Mar. 13: 49 deaths
Apr. 13: 23,608 deaths

I just went out today (to Sam's for necessities) for the first time in several days and the traffic on May Avenue was quite heavy.

A friend from California passed through OKC on Friday and said there was way more traffic here than in Southern Cal.

I think people here are doing a poor job of staying home in general.

My friends from the West Coast (Oregon), who recently moved here by choice and are still excited about it, have openly asked me if they made a mistake. They have been horrified to see so many Oklahomans out there acting like nothing is going on on family shopping trips to Lowe's, etc.

I just went out today (to Sam's for necessities) for the first time in several days and the traffic on May Avenue was quite heavy.

A friend from California passed through OKC on Friday and said there was way more traffic here than in Southern Cal.

I think people here are doing a poor job of staying home in general.

My friends from the West Coast (Oregon), who recently moved here by choice and are still excited about it, have openly asked me if they made a mistake. They have been horrified to see so many Oklahomans out there acting like nothing is going on on family shopping trips to Lowe's, etc.

Reported US coronavirus deaths:

Feb. 13: 0 deaths
Mar. 13: 49 deaths
Apr. 13: 23,608 deaths

Bill Bennett said this is no big deal at all.

All this criticism that people are still out and about. Personally, I look at the reality of it.... People are still out in droves and the numbers are nowhere near the doomsday predictions that they were saying we'd certainly have if we were not completely compliant. It may be my way of being in denial, but I'm not ashamed to admit I'm out on public (sans gloves and mask) in some form or another daily. I practice practical social distancing and stay out of individuals personal space, bring my own wipes and hand sanitizer. I monitor my vitals 2-3x a day and I've even been tested (negative). I go back to my gut feeling I posted when all this started....


3/20/2020: I may be in 100% denial. I just believe from what all I've read this virus has been here for a couple of months and we are simply not seeing the surge of deaths you'd think we should have, based on all the media and governmental hype. I hope I'm just full of dumb luck and I'm right. If I'm not, well, there wasn't really anything I could have done differently and my opinion has zero impact either way. I read all the editorials describing people just like me, who have their doubts about the fatality of it all, but I just can't kick that gnawing at my gut,

All this criticism that people are still out and about. Personally, I look at the reality of it.... People are still out in droves and the numbers are nowhere near the doomsday predictions that they were saying we'd certainly have if we were not completely compliant. It may be my way of being in denial, but I'm not ashamed to admit I'm out on public (sans gloves and mask) in some form or another daily. I practice practical social distancing and stay out of individuals personal space, bring my own wipes and hand sanitizer. I monitor my vitals 2-3x a day and I've even been tested (negative). I go back to my gut feeling I posted when all this started....

Whats strange is rush hour remains low traffic wise on highways and turnpike yet in city streets its still quite a bit of traffic, not as much drop off. So people are not working but are out doing stuff.

And the $1,200 deposits will mostly be made Wed which means more getting out and buying.

Good observation on it not being as bad as doomsday predictions.

My friends from the West Coast (Oregon), who recently moved here by choice and are still excited about it, have openly asked me if they made a mistake. They have been horrified to see so many Oklahomans out there acting like nothing is going on on family shopping trips to Lowe's, etc.

Then they are more than a little dramatic. If they are so concerned, they can stay home themselves and be fine. The numbers seem to indicate what we’re doing is working.

Some people don’t understand that being lucky and being smart aren’t the same thing.

These anecdotes remind me of the people who go through traffic at higher speed than the others, cutting in front of people and causing wrecks behind them as they pass through. They never know the havoc they create. Then they tell their friends “heck, traffic wasn’t bad.. everyone should just drive the way I do and we’d be just fine.”

3.5% is a number almost out of thin air ...

No. It was a little low. Sorry. As of today 583,000 confirmed US cases with 23,000 deaths, so about four percent of confirmed cases are leading to death. The number is slightly higher in OK: 4.7 %.

Some people don’t understand that being lucky and being smart aren’t the same thing.

These anecdotes remind me of the people who go through traffic at higher speed than the others, cutting in front of people and causing wrecks behind them as they pass through. They never know the havoc they create. Then they tell their friends “heck, traffic wasn’t bad.. everyone should just drive the way I do and we’d be just fine.”

Your own anecdote doesn't reflect reality.... People ARE going about their day locally and yet there is no "havoc" in their wake. If you think these numbers locally are havoc, then don't Google death rates of virtually ANYTHING else - you'll never go outside.

No. It was a little low. Sorry. As of today 583,000 confirmed US cases with 23,000 deaths, so about four percent of confirmed cases are leading to death. The number is slightly higher in OK: 4.7 %.

It is almost pointless to bring up that percentage in Oklahoma due to systemic under counting anything but the worst cases

Your own anecdote doesn't reflect reality.... People ARE going about their day locally and yet there is no "havoc" in their wake. If you think these numbers locally are havoc, then don't Google death rates of virtually ANYTHING else - you'll never go outside.

You're right. 23,000 dead in a month from 1 virus is pretty much on par for every other major killer in the US.

15963

Seems like it would be hard to hide from Heart Disease or Cancer by not going outside. In the case of the former, that's probably even counterproductive.

Your own anecdote doesn't reflect reality.... People ARE going about their day locally and yet there is no "havoc" in their wake. If you think these numbers locally are havoc, then don't Google death rates of virtually ANYTHING else - you'll never go outside.
No, people ARE NOT going about their day locally. No one I know is "going about their day". They are all observing Shelter in Place. I guess I just have responsible friends. But because of us and most other Oklahomans are following the health recommendations then some think they can "go about their day" and when they don't contract the virus they think there is no need to follow the recommendations.

It's kind of like the Anti-Vaxxers whose kids don't get small pox because EVERYONE ELSE got their shots.

You're right. 23,000 dead in a month from 1 virus is pretty much on par for every other major killer in the US.

15963

Does this chart rep one month in 2017 or is it reporting the previous 12 months prior to the 2017 reporting?

It is almost pointless to bring up that percentage in Oklahoma due to systemic under counting anything but the worst cases

This exactly. I have asked but nobody seems to know if the numbers the Oklahoma State Health Dept. are reporting include nursing homes, State of Oklahoma Veterans Centers, Federal Hospitals( VA, PHS, or military hospitals).

Does this chart rep one month in 2017 or is it reporting the previous 12 months prior to the 2017 reporting?

This is where the numbers come from: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_06-508.pdf

They are from the whole year in 2017.

No, people ARE NOT going about their day locally. No one I know is "going about their day". They are all observing Shelter in Place. I guess I just have responsible friends. But because of us and most other Oklahomans are following the health recommendations then some think they can "go about their day" and when they don't contract the virus they think there is no need to follow the recommendations.

It's kind of like the Anti-Vaxxers whose kids don't get small pox because EVERYONE ELSE got their shots.

Keep telling yourself that.

In the mean time, some countries and other parts of the globe without shelter in place are also not seeing the doomsday numbers the media has been predicting. You absolutely see areas where numbers are alarmingly high, but you also see numbers that are relatively low. Exactly why that is has yet to be determined.

I'm confident in the future we will see that in less densely populated areas the stay at home at all cost was way too dramatic and had very little effect on the total numbers but did wreak havoc on their economy.

And, yes, many people are going about their day. Everywhere I go (Sam's, Costco, WalMart, Lowes, Target, HomeDepot, Neighborhood Market, 7-11, OnCue, etc.) all have lots of people there too. Not full, but plenty of people. Went to Walmart this morning and had to wait in a cue to get to self checkout because they were all full.

Here's a tip, if you feel the need, go run and hide at home. Me being about isn't going to effect you.

I'm in a high risk group because of my stage 3 cancer. I also visit my high risk 94 year old grandfather every other day because he needs groceries, errands run and things of that nature.

Wash your hands, be mindful of what you touch, give people their personal space, monitor your vitals and if you are in a high risk group and feel the need - stay home. Not in a high risk group and exercise general precautionary measures, do what you need to do.

It is almost pointless to bring up that percentage in Oklahoma due to systemic under counting anything but the worst cases

Generally I agree. However, many more people are being teated now so it is not farcical to report this. Importantly the US number is around 4%, so Boulder’s swipe was unfounded.

Generally I agree. However, many more people are being teated now so it is not farcical to report this. Importantly the US number is around 4%, so Boulder’s swipe was unfounded.
Here’s a study that estimates that the US could have had 10 million infected at the end of March. At the end of March there was 4,064 deaths in the US, so you’re looking at a mortality rate of .04%. Anyone can play this game with any set of numbers they want to.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-covid-average-actual-infections-worldwide.html?fbclid=IwAR0EOPP85768bDuj4aLwQTo4Ar pfGQm75deZaKDgRxA4HMiZl-ceJWu28WE

And, yes, many people are going about their day. Everywhere I go (Sam's, Costco, WalMart, Lowes, Target, HomeDepot, Neighborhood Market, 7-11, OnCue, etc.) all have lots of people there too. Not full, but plenty of people. Went to Walmart this morning and had to wait in a cue to get to self checkout because they were all full.

Here's a tip, if you feel the need, go run and hide at home. Me being about isn't going to effect you.

And just like the Anti-Vaxxers, you and the others who are going about the normal life can thank those of us who are making the sacrifice to stay home and limit community spread for the fact that Oklahoma is not a hot spot.

Also, please cite countries without shelter in place with numbers in line with countries that do have shelter in place. Sweden has a low key approach, but they seem to be having second thoughts.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-doctor-death-certificates-latest-a9462796.html

"I’ve never written so many death certificates. I’ve never worked this many hours,” says an exhausted Issa Yacoub, a doctor working in Sodersjukhuset, one of Stockholm’s largest public hospitals."
"Sweden’s cases are rising. The country of some 10 million now has more than 10,000 cases and 887 deaths. Its total death toll is higher than that of all the other Nordic countries put together."

Great Britain tried the herd immunity approach for a while, but switched when it became clear that that policy was a disaster.

Here’s a study that estimates that the US could have had 10 million infected at the end of March. At the end of March there was 4,064 deaths in the US, so you’re looking at a mortality rate of .04%. Anyone can play this game with any set of numbers they want to.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-covid-average-actual-infections-worldwide.html?fbclid=IwAR0EOPP85768bDuj4aLwQTo4Ar pfGQm75deZaKDgRxA4HMiZl-ceJWu28WE


And now there are 20,000+ deaths. Do you think the number of infections went up to 50 million so you could keep your mortality rate at .04%?

In fact the deaths due to COVID-19 are being undercounted due to the early shortage of tests. Here's an article:https://thebulwark.com/newsletter-issue/the-real-covid-19-death-toll-is-higher-than-we-think/
"most localities seem to be ascribing deaths to COVID-19 only in the presence of a positive test. And since we’ve had a persistent shortage of tests, many patients in serious condition are admitted without being tested, since they are presumed positive cases and the test can be better used on someone else."

"Since 2000, the annual monthly variance in deaths has stayed within a very small and relatively stable band: within a few hundred, plus or minus, the monthly average. There’s one big outlier, of course, for September 2001.

Now look at the 30-day period ending on April 4, 2020: 5,330 more deaths than the monthly average. And of those, only 3,350 have been officially ascribed to COVID-19."

And just like the Anti-Vaxxers, you and the others who are going about the normal life can thank those of us who are making the sacrifice to stay home and limit community spread for the fact that Oklahoma is not a hot spot.

Also, please cite countries without shelter in place with numbers in line with countries that do have shelter in place. Sweden has a low key approach, but they seem to be having second thoughts.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-doctor-death-certificates-latest-a9462796.html

"I’ve never written so many death certificates. I’ve never worked this many hours,” says an exhausted Issa Yacoub, a doctor working in Sodersjukhuset, one of Stockholm’s largest public hospitals."
"Sweden’s cases are rising. The country of some 10 million now has more than 10,000 cases and 887 deaths. Its total death toll is higher than that of all the other Nordic countries put together."

Great Britain tried the herd immunity approach for a while, but switched when it became clear that that policy was a disaster.

Well, you just keep "sacrificing" LOL

You can cherry pick all the quotes you want. The total numbers are the reality and when put in perspective have yet to prove themselves the doomsday that was predicted.

But yeah, YOU'RE THE TRUE AMERICAN HERO! (sigh)

Your own anecdote doesn't reflect reality.... People ARE going about their day locally and yet there is no "havoc" in their wake. If you think these numbers locally are havoc, then don't Google death rates of virtually ANYTHING else - you'll never go outside.
Great hyperbole... ALL. NONE. NEVER. ALWAYS. EVERYTHING. ANYTHING. NOTHING'

My analogy stands. There are those who are positive and asymptomatic and if they willy-nilly go on they will infect many others who are not so fortunate and will come down with symptoms and some will die. Heck, you may be one, either a carrier who infects without knowledge of the damage you cause, or the one hit by someone else with their head in the sand, and you fall ill or die. Roll the dice. The rest of us prefer to follow sensible actions to minimize the possibility of us being the cause of others' deaths, or us being a victim.

By the way, your definition of chaos means it is only chaos if it affects your loved ones, not someone else's.

Great hyperbole... ALL. NONE. NEVER. ALWAYS. EVERYTHING. ANYTHING. NOTHING'

My analogy stands. There are those who are positive and asymptomatic and if they willy-nilly go on they will infect many others who are not so fortunate and will come down with symptoms and some will die. Heck, you may be one, either a carrier who infects without knowledge of the damage you cause, or the one hit by someone else with their head in the sand, and you fall ill or die. Roll the dice. The rest of us prefer to follow sensible actions to minimize the possibility of us being the cause of others' deaths, or us being a victim.

By the way, your definition of chaos means it is only chaos if it affects your loved ones, not someone else's.

So, when flu season rolls around I expect to hear you're all posted up inside your home for weeks or months. Or, do those 25,000-80,000 Americans that die from contracting the flu mean nothing to you? Or, are you just doing what so many of us do and suffer from selective outrage when and where it suits you?

^

First 30 day vacation.

We need to be abe to discuss these issues without the hostility and anger.

So, when flu season rolls around I expect to hear you're all posted up inside your home for weeks or months. Or, do those 25,000-80,000 Americans that die from contracting the flu mean nothing to you? Or, are you just doing what so many of us do and suffer from selective outrage when and where it suits you?

there are things i can do for the flu... i can get the flu vaccine... heck, i can easily get tested for the flu. there are treatments if you get the flu.

now. if i get the flu, will i avoid going to my parents house because they are older? will i try and avoid going out in public as much as possible?
yes, i was doing these in years past.

Numbers just updated for Tuesday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona041420a.jpg

Keep telling yourself that.

In the mean time, some countries and other parts of the globe without shelter in place are also not seeing the doomsday numbers the media has been predicting. You absolutely see areas where numbers are alarmingly high, but you also see numbers that are relatively low. Exactly why that is has yet to be determined.

I'm confident in the future we will see that in less densely populated areas the stay at home at all cost was way too dramatic and had very little effect on the total numbers but did wreak havoc on their economy.

And, yes, many people are going about their day. Everywhere I go (Sam's, Costco, WalMart, Lowes, Target, HomeDepot, Neighborhood Market, 7-11, OnCue, etc.) all have lots of people there too. Not full, but plenty of people. Went to Walmart this morning and had to wait in a cue to get to self checkout because they were all full.

Here's a tip, if you feel the need, go run and hide at home. Me being about isn't going to effect you.

I'm in a high risk group because of my stage 3 cancer. I also visit my high risk 94 year old grandfather every other day because he needs groceries, errands run and things of that nature.

Wash your hands, be mindful of what you touch, give people their personal space, monitor your vitals and if you are in a high risk group and feel the need - stay home. Not in a high risk group and exercise general precautionary measures, do what you need to do.

Yeah my family and I have stayed home for the most part outside of running errands for food and other necessary things but last Saturday, since we finally had a fairly nice weekend, we took a trip out to Roman Nose State Park and hiked around the trail system there. There were quite a few families out there doing the same thing and everyone was doing a pretty good job of keeping their distance between groups. Fortunately, unlike Gov Abbot in TX, Gov. Stitt has allowed all of our state parks to remain open to visitors with camping restricted to self contained RVs (since basic tent camping generally requires the use of shared facilities). I'd highly recommend visiting one, it's a great way to get outside and be active during all of this.

Then they are more than a little dramatic. If they are so concerned, they can stay home themselves and be fine. The numbers seem to indicate what we’re doing is working.

Great point. They are just drama queens from out of state. Love it or leave it. Nothing to see here.

Some interesting scholarship from the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/magazine/coronavirus-economy-debate.html?auth=linked-google

Peter Singer actually gets it.

Great point. They are just drama queens from out of state. Love it or leave it. Nothing to see here.

Though that was obviously intended to be sarcastic...If they are debating their decision to move here because more people here are running errands and aren’t staying locked up in their homes 24/7 during a pandemic that will likely end up with a death rate well below 1%, then I agree with you. “Drama Queens” from the west coast they are.

Though that was obviously intended to be sarcastic...If they are debating their decision to move here because more people here are running errands and aren’t staying locked up in their homes 24/7 during a pandemic that will likely end up with a death rate well below 1%, then I agree with you. “Drama Queens” from the west coast they are.

I love how the 1% is being thrown around by certain political partisans. The truth is, no one knows the exact rate, just like they don't know from flu. However, we do know it is way more deadly than the flu, we have no proven drugs and are just learning best practices on treatments. Killing the spread at the root rather than the flower is a way better alternative.

And yes, the character of a place can be determined by how much social responsibility is shown during critical times. If the prevailing attitude of a place is denial of truth, priority of self over others, and lack of personal discipline and respect, then I can see why that might discourage some from relocating. People move here sometimes because of how nice people are and they can stay away if they think the general population is stupid, dogmatic and/or selfish.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/04/14/coronavirus-claims-lives-30-grocery-store-workers-union-says/2987754001/ Grocery store is about the last place I would be going if at all possible. I went to Braums 6:30 this morning and I was the only one in there shopping. Cashier came over checked me out and I was gone. Very little interaction.

I guess what I'm saying is this is really just going to keep going and going and going. Sure the numbers are trending way down but social distancing is working. The second we lift the restrictions I'm afraid the numbers are going to go right back up quickly. Then again will people still go out if restrictions are lifted? I for one would think twice about going out to eat or going to a concert or ballgame. The numbers would almost have to be zero for me to consider it. I don't see the numbers being zero for a while as long as people are in and out of stores where it's spreading. Might not be spreading fast but it's still spreading.

I love how the 1% is being thrown around by certain political partisans. The truth is, no one knows the exact rate, just like they don't know from flu. However, we do know it is way more deadly than the flu, we have no proven drugs and are just learning best practices on treatments. Killing the spread at the root rather than the flower is a way better alternative.

And yes, the character of a place can be determined by how much social responsibility is shown during critical times. If the prevailing attitude of a place is denial of truth, priority of self over others, and lack of personal discipline and respect, then I can see why that might discourage some from relocating. People move here sometimes because of how nice people are and they can stay away if they think the general population is stupid, dogmatic and/or selfish.

There is going to be an antibody survey released sometime this week by the University of Southern California. Lets see if it aligns with what we already see in from testing in South Korea, Germany, the Diamond Princess and most importantly an antibody survey by Germans that showed 15 percent population spread and .60 percent death rate. Which would probably be 1 percent since here in the US since we have an obesity problem.

There is going to be an antibody survey released sometime this week by the University of Southern California. Lets see if it aligns with what we already see in from testing in South Korea, Germany, the Diamond Princess and most importantly an antibody survey by Germans that showed 15 percent population spread and .60 percent death rate. Which would probably be 1 percent since here in the US since we have an obesity problem.

And now, they are saying some deaths attributed to other causes like heart failures, were probably really brought on by the virus. There's still a lot to learn.