So and I hate to even ask this but why does it seem like our hospitals are in trouble with just over 900 statewide with covid vs the 1,930 we had at the peak? Nursing shortage?

some of it is that. but also they didn't shut down elective surgeries, etc this time. so they are still trying to operate as a fully functioning hospital still and not just a covid ward. so there are people in there for other things, a lot of which wasn't the case 6 months ago. now it does sound like that as other people are leaving the hospitals now, they are starting to turn more back into just covid sections. so we should see some more beds become available. but then that also just means that those hospitals won't have beds for other injuries and illnesses again. This is what we have always been trying to avoid. hoping that everyone took precautions seriously so that we didn't overload our hospitals, because that creates way more problems than just covid.

Hospitals treat non-Covid patients as well, so that is always a factor

But nurses and other staff are quitting at quitting all over the place. And students doing clinical during Covid are quickly changing majors.

Hospitals treat non-Covid patients as well, so that is always a factor

But nurses and other staff are quitting at quitting all over the place. And students doing clinical during Covid are quickly changing majors.

Is there evidence of this?

So and I hate to even ask this but why does it seem like our hospitals are in trouble with just over 900 statewide with covid vs the 1,930 we had at the peak? Nursing shortage?

Under a declaration of emergency more beds and more streamlined administration of covid patients can occur. Since our esteemed governor chooses not to do that, there are less covid beds and they are harder for medical staffs and facilities to administer to. Our gov could help with a stroke of the pen, but it seems politics wins out over public health and lives in OK.

Is there evidence of this?

It happens outside a pandemic too, so even if we can get solid numbers on this, they would also need to be compared to the pre-pandemic baseline.

Is there evidence of this?

Just the students I know and from nurse friends at clinical sites.
Nothing published.

Talking with a friend who is not a trump supporter. Registered independent. He had not been vaccinated. Didn’t know anything about details of shots and differences in them. Didn’t know the process or where to even go to get a shot.

Posting this just to say it’s not just one political party not getting shots. There are truly just a lot of uninformed people who haven’t taken time to look into shots and really are clueless.
I wonder how many people fall into this category like him. He works long days and doesn’t have much free time in evenings I bet a lot of people fall into this category.

But I helped him out. Told him where to go. And how to get shot and explained the different brands of shots and the minor differences on them and showed how practically all hospitalized are unvaccinated and virtually all Icu and ventilator cases are unvaccinated. Got him onboard.

So point of my message. Talk to your circle. See who might be just out of loop and haven’t taken time to figure out their decision like him

Talking with a friend who is not a trump supporter. Registered independent. He had not been vaccinated. Didn’t know anything about details of shots and differences in them. Didn’t know the process or where to even go to get a shot.

Posting this just to say it’s not just one political party not getting shots. There are truly just a lot of uninformed people who haven’t taken time to look into shots and really are clueless.
I wonder how many people fall into this category like him. He works long days and doesn’t have much free time in evenings I bet a lot of people fall into this category.

But I helped him out. Told him where to go. And how to get shot and explained the different brands of shots and the minor differences on them and showed how practically all hospitalized are unvaccinated and virtually all Icu and ventilator cases are unvaccinated. Got him onboard.

So point of my message. Talk to your circle. See who might be just out of loop and haven’t taken time to figure out their decision like him

Stories like this are just utterly fascinating to me because I can't even imagine living a life so divorced from the state of the pandemic. Masks and arguments about school policies and fears and working from home and... the list goes on... have dominated the last 18 months of my life and thinking to varying degrees. To just not even know about the vaccines is just... fascinating. I certainly understand the impact of working long days on one's ability to stay up to date with the changing data, so there's sympathy there. It's just such a different experience from mine.

Yes I spoke to a waitress last night, 18, who hasn’t gotten the shot yet but is not against it. It seemed clear she thought it would take a lot of time and be a hassle.

Stories like this are just utterly fascinating to me because I can't even imagine living a life so divorced from the state of the pandemic. Masks and arguments about school policies and fears and working from home and... the list goes on... have dominated the last 18 months of my life and thinking to varying degrees. To just not even know about the vaccines is just... fascinating. I certainly understand the impact of working long days on one's ability to stay up to date with the changing data, so there's sympathy there. It's just such a different experience from mine.

:yeahthat: :eek:

LocoAko, totally agree. It's just unfathomable to me. It's not like 9/11 or the OKC bombing or the Iraq War or the Insurrection, all of which, if you didn't watch TV, or pursue social media, you could be ignorant of. COVID impacts all of our lives in multiple ways every day. I literally don't understand how someone could just not take the time to figure out their vaccine strategy (or lack thereof).

Having written that, good for you, Downtown Man, for taking the time to help him out and convince him of how he can help his fellow man and his society come closer to the end of this nightmare.

Finally some real leadership:

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/education/2021/08/11/mask-mandate-oklahoma-santa-fe-south-schools/5568483001/

Awesome. We need to see OKC and Tulsa follow suit.

Talking with a friend who is not a trump supporter. Registered independent. He had not been vaccinated. Didn’t know anything about details of shots and differences in them. Didn’t know the process or where to even go to get a shot.

Posting this just to say it’s not just one political party not getting shots. There are truly just a lot of uninformed people who haven’t taken time to look into shots and really are clueless.
I wonder how many people fall into this category like him. He works long days and doesn’t have much free time in evenings I bet a lot of people fall into this category.

But I helped him out. Told him where to go. And how to get shot and explained the different brands of shots and the minor differences on them and showed how practically all hospitalized are unvaccinated and virtually all Icu and ventilator cases are unvaccinated. Got him onboard.

So point of my message. Talk to your circle. See who might be just out of loop and haven’t taken time to figure out their decision like him

Downtown Man, thank you very much for taking the time and care with your friend to walk them through the questions and help them get set up with a shot. I appreciate that caring attitude and makes me remember why I still love humans even when I don't love all their behaviors.

Yes I spoke to a waitress last night, 18, who hasn’t gotten the shot yet but is not against it. It seemed clear she thought it would take a lot of time and be a hassle.

she is also much more at risk from lighting car wrecks and the flu then covid ..

Finally some real leadership:

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/education/2021/08/11/mask-mandate-oklahoma-santa-fe-south-schools/5568483001/

nothing like harming children for political points ..

serious question ... should schools have mask mandates for the FLU season??

she is also much more at risk from lighting car wrecks and the flu then covid ..

Which is why she should get inside during a lightening storm, follow traffic laws, and get a flu shot.

Just common sense and common consideration to protect yourself and your community.

Same with covid vaccine.

nothing like harming children for political points ..

nothing is correct about this statement ..

Yes I spoke to a waitress last night, 18, who hasn’t gotten the shot yet but is not against it. It seemed clear she thought it would take a lot of time and be a hassle.I'm glad to see someone else have this experience. I posted a few pages ago about the number of young, mostly servers, that I talk to that simply don't pay any attention to news or what goes on in the world. They're not getting vaccinated for any political or moral reason. They just don't think anything about it. It's scary. But also as I said before I was that way at that age.

We should do away with airbags and seatbelts because they make cars more expensive and you’ll rarely need to use them.

This could be interesting

https://kfor.com/news/local/mercy-to-begin-offering-experimental-treatment-to-certain-covid-19-patients/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR36ywGGE2az4ooLY6TYpD-tnYHqyaYngc9vgzXVb0OIzYUDfJOcOAtnQmY

she is also much more at risk from lighting car wrecks and the flu then covid ..

actually even at her age... the odds of her dying from a lightning strike are way more rare than her dying from covid... and yet we still think she would be dumb to stand outside in a storm holding a metal pole.

getting struck by lightning, yes, more at risk than dying from covid, but dying from the lightning strike, nope, covid death, even for an 18 year old is pretty significantly higher.

but again, we are once again on a thread where you are throwing our an opinion that you have that is not even remotely based upon facts.

if you want the numbers... per the CDC currently, 517 people out of 1,000,000 who are under age 19 who get covid will die. including in the odds of someone of that age getting covid it comes out to around 7:1,000,000 as the odds. per NOAA, getting struck by lighting is 1:15,300... so like i said, much more likely... but the odds of actually dying from lighting strike are 1:6,600,000.... so as you can see. the numbers clearly show that she is significantly more likely to die of covid than a lighting strike... but again, we wouldn't think she was smart for running around in the storm with a lightning rod.

UPDATED because my comparison wasn't correct. the 7:1,000,000 was only just for people in that age group, not including everyone regardless of age like that lighting strike odds, where are for a person being struck in their lifetime, and dying in their lifetime... if we look at the same age group, still slightly more likely to get struck my lightning. that actually makes it around 1:*2
that you will get struck by lightning in while aged between the ages of birth and the day of your 20th birthday. and actually changes that death to being around 1:26,400,000 of you dying from a lightning strike before your 20th birthday.

This could be interesting

https://kfor.com/news/local/mercy-to-begin-offering-experimental-treatment-to-certain-covid-19-patients/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR36ywGGE2az4ooLY6TYpD-tnYHqyaYngc9vgzXVb0OIzYUDfJOcOAtnQmY

It's not just for the President, anymore.

I'm glad to see someone else have this experience. I posted a few pages ago about the number of young, mostly servers, that I talk to that simply don't pay any attention to news or what goes on in the world. They're not getting vaccinated for any political or moral reason. They just don't think anything about it. It's scary. But also as I said before I was that way at that age.

Do these servers have no awareness as to why their employer can not achieve desirable staffing levels? I find that proposition very difficult to believe in that the pandemic had a major effect on the number of people coming in to eat as well as the number willing to be co workers. That's just me though.

nothing like harming children for political points ..

serious question ... should schools have mask mandates for the FLU season??

Why not?

Hey we got some actual data from OSDH today!

https://twitter.com/kocodillon/status/1425567454802161672?s=21

Good news is breakthrough cases have at most been 7% of overall cases. Get a vaccine folks!

93% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated folks.

https://twitter.com/kocodillon/status/1425567811699625988?s=21

Why not?

I'll assume you are are a man that isn't around children very much.... They don't wear them properly, at least not the young ones.

I'll assume you are are a man that isn't around children very much.... They don't wear them properly, at least not the young ones.

Lol. My 5 year old nephew learned to wear a mask properly in about 1 minute. Most kids are far better than most adults at wearing their masks. Poor mask wearing has a lot more to do with the adults around them than the kids. Most adults arguing against masks for kids are just trying to bring their own politics to the issue.

Unfortunately, some people still don’t understand that COVID is not a personal issue, it’s a communal issue. If kids don’t wear masks then they can harm adults their immunocompromised peers. And, unfortunately, the Delta variant is hitting kids much harder than previous iterations. Wearing masks is the right thing to do.

Lol. My 5 year old nephew learned to wear a mask properly in about 1 minute. Most kids are far better than most adults at wearing their masks. Poor mask wearing has a lot more to do with the adults around them than the kids. Most adults arguing against masks for kids are just trying to bring their own politics to the issue.

Unfortunately, some people still don’t understand that COVID is not a personal issue, it’s a communal issue. If kids don’t wear masks then they can harm adults their immunocompromised peers. And, unfortunately, the Delta variant is hitting kids much harder than previous iterations. Wearing masks is the right thing to do.

I am glad for your newphew. I hope you can have a kid someday. My observation is opposite of your experience with your nephew. I am talking about real life and not a one off well behaved kid.

Good news is breakthrough cases have at most been 7% of overall cases. Get a vaccine folks!


I'm too lazy to do the math right now but my fiance said they have 38 at her hospital and 5 were vaccinated.... Didn't know if they were fully vaccinated.

It also should be a mandate that the non-vaccinated need to listen to her take phone calls for a night..... Listening to them try and find equipment and beds for patients right now is sobering.

I am glad for your newphew. I hope you can have a kid someday. My observation is opposite of your experience with your nephew. I am talking about real life and not a one off well behaved kid.

I've been living in SE Asia since covid hit and where I live kids will slap your butt and grab your crotch. They act a lot crazier and unruly than any kids I've seen in America and yet kids wear mask in schools. Trust me on this plenty of 5 years old wear mask here and my nephew who is like 3 wears a mask too. If someone can get unruly kids in developing SE Asia who go around grabbing adult men's crotch to a wear a mask then obviously the same can be done for American kids.

I am glad for your newphew. I hope you can have a kid someday. My observation is opposite of your experience with your nephew. I am talking about real life and not a one off well behaved kid.

I work in education and talk with K-5 educators all the time. Are kids perfect? No, but I honestly think they're better than adults on the whole. They respond to teachers who set a good example and reinforce it. Again, entire schools do a great job of this. It's not a one-off example.

16 months later, and the same idiots are still posting the same flu bull****…

Rodger, is real real scarry for us older folks who for ligit medical reasons cannot be vaccinated. Sure there are some saying they cannot for medical reasons but when your specialist doctors say nope. Stay away from people and just stay home and do curb side if you need not want but need something like food or parts to fix something. I am trying to wear a N95 when not on my acreage. Please consider there are folks who dont have a choice to vaccinate or not. Those who do and those who can wear a mask please give us a little space when we have to be around others. I have bad knees and people want to run over and help without wearing a mask. I tell them to stay back and they dont understand its safer for me to stay the distance even if it means I must struggle a bit. I was out working in my front bar ditch sitting since I cannot stand for that long and people kept geting out of their cars walking up to me and say let me help you up. I cannot crawl away that fast from people. sure good intent but I pull weeds and pick up seed heads from weeds. Stupid county ran their brush hog through my nice mowed burmeda grass and spreed trash and weeds. I hate this. County brush hoggers. ugh. My night mare. Please people dont walk up on people like this. I did not think people would do this other wise I would have had an N95 on all day in my yard at the road. I just thought I was safe on my property. I am ranting because I dont have anyone else to rant to. County said not their problem that their brush hogger made a mess for me. Okla county district 3. ugh.

If the alternative is kids not wearing anything anyway and spreading what they have cause parents are so ****ty they let their sick kid go to school, I don't really see the downside.

16 months later, and the same idiots are still posting the same flu bull****…

At this point (a point that was reached a while ago), it’s intentional and willful ignorance. The posters who continue to post the same flu bs either do not possess the intellectual capacity to understand why the comparison is invalid despite the availability of excellent information on the topic or they actively choose not to understand because being politically “right” supersedes the importance of truth.

At this point (a point that was reached a while ago), it’s intentional and willful ignorance. The posters who continue to post the same flu bs either do not possess the intellectual capacity to understand why the comparison is invalid despite the availability of excellent information on the topic or they actively choose not to understand because being politically “right” supersedes the importance of truth.

The anti-covid vaxxers are still causing a hell of a lot of trouble and worry on the Internet, and the media isn't doing an aggressive enough job of debunking them.

We live in a world where some parents would rather their kids get seriously sick than "child abuse" them by making them wear a mask. lol

The anti-covid vaxxers are still causing a hell of a lot of trouble and worry on the Internet, and the media isn't doing an aggressive enough job of debunking them.

Media coverage is not the problem. All they do is right about COVID. If you’re pointing fingers, point it at the social media companies who have allowed anti-vaxxers to thrive.

Media coverage is not the problem. All they do is right about COVID. If you’re pointing fingers, point it at the social media companies who have allowed anti-vaxxers to thrive.

Our Media is horrible. On a side note what happen to RSV. I remember the media going crazy all the kids in the hospital for RSV in June and I said to a friend is it RSV or Covid. Why are they not saying it's covid. Well covid cases were really low. Now it's time for school and it's all covid. What happen to RSV? Really google search RSV and you will see in June it was all the media was talking about. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-is-receding-this-summer-but-now-cases-of-rsv-are-rising

Our Media is horrible. On a side note what happen to RSV.

I'm not Nostradamus but due to less frequent masking I predict we have the winter this year we all expected last year.... Covid along with a severe flu, RSV, adenovirus season..... I'm already prepared to go into bear mode and hibernate until spring..... It was a fun couple of months while it lasted.

RSV is already raging (https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2021/08/05/peds.2021-052089) (and is part of reason why pediatric ICU beds are filling up). I'm actually morbidly optimistic about COVID this fall/winter, since Delta is essentially inoculating a large swathe of the unvaccinated, and EUAs for child vaccines should be coming down the pipe soon. Barring a new, much-more immune evasive variant, the super vulnerable population to COVID has shrunk significantly over the last month. In the UK for example, over 90% of the population has antibodies even though only 75% are fully vaccinated. They're going to be the canary in the coal mine when it comes to future waves (just as they were with Delta).

I've been living in SE Asia since covid hit and where I live kids will slap your butt and grab your crotch. They act a lot crazier and unruly than any kids I've seen in America and yet kids wear mask in schools. Trust me on this plenty of 5 years old wear mask here and my nephew who is like 3 wears a mask too. If someone can get unruly kids in developing SE Asia who go around grabbing adult men's crotch to a wear a mask then obviously the same can be done for American kids.

I guess it depends on how authoritarian you wish to be with the children. I am not an advocate for using that type of power in the quantity required to force other people's children into universal compliance.

Just curious, maybe I’ve missed something, but why are there no daily numbers anymore?

Posting this just to say it’s not just one political party not getting shots.

There are strong correlations to political party.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/poll-finding/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-february-2021/

In the above survey conducted in Febuary, 75% of Democrats had already received at least one shot or planned to as soon as it was available versus 35% of Republicans.


But I helped him out. Told him where to go. And how to get shot and explained the different brands of shots and the minor differences on them and showed how practically all hospitalized are unvaccinated and virtually all Icu and ventilator cases are unvaccinated. Got him onboard.

I've done the same--when I do consulations with clients, I've been asking them if they've been vaccinated yet, and have directed them to where they may be vaccinated. Even signed some up back when you had to sign up.

I guess it depends on how authoritarian you wish to be with the children. I am not an advocate for using that type of power in the quantity required to force other people's children into universal compliance.

We already tell them what skirt length is appropriate, when boys can wear shorts, spaghetti straps, midriff, etc. Been doing it for years. Pretty sure putting something over their face would be fine if parents weren't such snowflakes about it.

Our Media is horrible.

Who even knows what this means? There are thousands of media outlets. I've been able to follow top notch coverage of the pandemic throughout. It depends on your sources. If you think the media is terrible then maybe try some other sources.

I guess it depends on how authoritarian you wish to be with the children. I am not an advocate for using that type of power in the quantity required to force other people's children into universal compliance.

Lol. You're just throwing in the word "authoritarian" in to try to make your point. Again, for many adults, this is more about their beliefs than anything kids believe. In the U.S. we force kids to go to school for 8 hours a day for 12 years, learn stuff they don't want, and obey a huge number of rules, many of which don't make sense and actually cause different harms. Yet, wearing masks so their teacher doesn't die during a pandemic is where you draw the line. Lol. That is a comical version of authoritarianism.

If you are angry with anti-vax caricatures who won't get a shot no matter what, read this newsletter post by Zeynep Tufekci (https://www.theinsight.org/p/the-lure-of-the-caricature). She makes a really compelling case that the unvaccinated are far more complex than often pictures. This is important to remember in discussions, policies, and efforts.

Who even knows what this means? There are thousands of media outlets. I've been able to follow top notch coverage of the pandemic throughout. It depends on your sources. If you think the media is terrible then maybe try some other sources.

https://www.poynter.org/ethics-trust/2021/us-ranks-last-among-46-countries-in-trust-in-media-reuters-institute-report-finds/ It means no one trust our media and like you said there are thousands all with their own agenda. Anything for clicks.

We talked about RSV in June, because there was a really high amount of RSV in June.

The majority of childhood respiratory diseases usually seen during the winter months were almost completely absent, same as influenza for adults. That trend persisted for kids until the end of school since masking was still prevalent. As soon as school was over, masking was reduced, and more mixing between groups happened with camps and mixing of groups these diseases spread rapidly. Instead of a busy RSV season in winter we had a busy RSV season in June.

Almost every single post by kukblue1 in this thread has been a version of “I’m not anti-mask/anti-vac/pro-conspiracy. But here is this other stuff. I don’t know though, not saying anything, just asking questions”

Our Media is horrible. On a side note what happen to RSV. I remember the media going crazy all the kids in the hospital for RSV in June and I said to a friend is it RSV or Covid. Why are they not saying it's covid. Well covid cases were really low. Now it's time for school and it's all covid. What happen to RSV? Really google search RSV and you will see in June it was all the media was talking about. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-is-receding-this-summer-but-now-cases-of-rsv-are-rising

Man, this has already been addressed up thread. There are two things happening: pediatric cases of Covid and pediatric cases of RSV. NOTE: my nephew has RSV.

You seem ridiculous posting this nonsense. The state health department is reporting on Covid pediatric cases. So, the rise in RSV cases is a separate issue. Both are leading to pediatric hospitalizations.

Lol. You're just throwing in the word "authoritarian" in to try to make your point. Again, for many adults, this is more about their beliefs than anything kids believe. In the U.S. we force kids to go to school for 8 hours a day for 12 years, learn stuff they don't want, and obey a huge number of rules, many of which don't make sense and actually cause different harms. Yet, wearing masks so their teacher doesn't die during a pandemic is where you draw the line. Lol. That is a comical version of authoritarianism.

No, the public school system is broken for all for the most intelligent, motivated, and disciplined of students. You are a part of a broken system, were you are an authority enforcing rules and you believe are immoral. I am in favor of a less Prussian model of education, and all you seem to want to do is add more rules through force. I am done with this conversation, go do your job and make another brick in the wall Dan.

Yeah I'd bow out of this conversation as well if I were you. There's a valid discussion to be had about the rigidity of our school system, but asking kids to put on a mask for a couple of months so they can stay in school and limit the spread of a deadly pandemic ain't the time or place for it.

Threadjack warning.

yeah... let's get back to topic. and some of that is getting waaay too personal.

I'm just saying the narrative has quickly changed from RSV to Covid that's all. Why don't we give RSV numbers like Covid numbers than if it's a big deal? Is it Covid or RSV? Do we even know?

RSV has been around for centuries, our immune systems are very familiar with it, and it kills ~20,000 a year, usually high-risk infants and folks over 65.

COVID is a novel pandemic first discovered in 2019 and has killed 600,000 Americans since then and is currently blitzing through our community and other locations in the United States.

Covid and RSV are different viruses, and most tests now test for RSV, flu and Covid in one swab, so it's highly unlikely that we're confusing COVID and RSV.

If you genuinely cannot understand why one is getting breathless coverage while the other doesn't get as much coverage, then I really do worry about your critical thinking skills.

https://oklahoma.gov/health/prevention-and-preparedness/acute-disease-service/disease-information/rsv.html Oh it's not even a reportable disease. Never mind. Everything is covid

If you are angry with anti-vax caricatures who won't get a shot no matter what, read this newsletter post by Zeynep Tufekci (https://www.theinsight.org/p/the-lure-of-the-caricature). She makes a really compelling case that the unvaccinated are far more complex than often pictures. This is important to remember in discussions, policies, and efforts.

I'm honestly not angry with the vaccine hesitant. Many of them are just the victims of the politics of cruelty. But those who preach the pro plague agenda, institute policy prohibiting the mitigation of a deadly disease, and intentionally spread misinformation for political and/or financial gain have blood on their hands. It's cruel, plain and simple.