^

Only recently have a large percentage of any political followers ever actively worked against something as straightforward as a simple solution to a horrible public health problem.

I believe Holt would have to declare a state of emergency first.

Remember, he is up for reelection soon. He'll likely maintain a pretty hands-off approach given that many are tired of restrictions and to be more proactive would be politically unpopular with a good percentage of voters.

Maybe Stitt expects businesses to make restrictions on their own. In Stillwater, Texas Roadhouse closed on Thursday and will be to go only for the weekend due to covid cases with workers. Businesses might as well go back to masks required for workers.

COVID cases are up 55% across the U.S. (https://www.axios.com/covid-pandemic-cases-unvaccinated-vaccines-3d5ac3b0-78fb-473b-ae0b-0f8382d0501b.html)

Oklahoma is up 123%.

I guess the only somewhat good news, Los Angelos has reported 6500 covid cases among the 4.9 million fully vaccinated population. Vaccines work!

I see. If that is his line of reasoning, that would be disappointing.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it sure would be nice to see politicians make (sometimes difficult or unpopular) decisions in the best interest of their constituents over what is politically (or monetarily) advantageous.

If OKC/Oklahoma county has a (relatively) higher percentage of the eligible adult population vaccinated than the state in general, it would seem to me that maybe OKC residents (and voters) may not be as anti-mask as the rest of the state? Or maybe I'm just very naive.

Can’t speak for everyone, and I may well be in the minority here, but while I masked and avoided all unnecessary indoor activities for over a year until I was fully vaccinated, I have no interest in going back to mask mandates given that masks are much less effective than vaccines and unvaccinated folks are going to be the least likely to follow any new mask mandates anyways. Would much rather see indoor events require either proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test within 24 hours for entry. (Even better would just be requiring proof of vaccination, but I’m trying to be realistic given the political alignment of this state.)

^

That's all well and good for adults, but hundreds of thousands of kids are getting ready to be packed into Oklahoma schools and most of them can't get vaccinated.

^

That's all well and good for adults, but hundreds of thousands of kids are getting ready to be packed into Oklahoma schools and most of them can't get vaccinated.

That’s a fair point, and I honestly don’t have a good answer for the school situation. In any case, I’ll continue to wear a mask anywhere it’s (re)-required, just won’t be thrilled about it given there’s a very obvious explanation as to why we’re still in this situation. Disappointing that we even still need to be having these types of conversations nearly four months after vaccines became widely available. There’s such a large portion of the world that would kill to have our level of vaccine access, and it’s just very unfortunate that we’re swimming in vaccines and can’t convince ~ 50% of the state to take them.

Can’t speak for everyone, and I may well be in the minority here, but while I masked and avoided all unnecessary indoor activities for over a year until I was fully vaccinated, I have no interest in going back to mask mandates given that masks are much less effective than vaccines and unvaccinated folks are going to be the least likely to follow any new mask mandates anyways. Would much rather see indoor events require either proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test within 24 hours for entry. (Even better would just be requiring proof of vaccination, but I’m trying to be realistic given the political alignment of this state.)
My wife and I discussed something like this sitting at the bar at our favorite Chilis the other night. We have both been fully vaccinated and both had the damn thing twice. We have no desire to go back to being hermits. If we get it again at this point we must be the most unlucky couple on the planet. We're going to mostly continue our return to normal. With exceptions. Like for the first time in 40 years Kansas will be in concert in Oklahoma and we won't be there. Anything with tons of people crammed in somewhere is still off limits.
I am REALLY concerned for school starting. I have 3 grandkids aged 7 to 12. I'm worried about them and all the other kids in the same boat.

If you've been vaxxed, even if you get infected the odds of it being serious are very low. If you refuse to take 15 minutes to get the jab, then I have little sympathy for whatever happens to you, especially since in the process you're putting other people -- and especially kids -- at risk out of complete selfishness and willful ignorance.

I'm very worried about the kids in this state. School starts for many in just 3 weeks.

Pete, do please have sympathy for those small % who for medical reasons cannot receive the vaccine. The number of people is low but out there. Those who cannot have to be very very careful right now. Masks, social distance, curbside pick up and staying away from other people unless absolutely necessary.

Pete, do please have sympathy for those small % who for medical reasons cannot receive the vaccine. The number of people is low but out there. Those who cannot have to be very very careful right now. Masks, social distance, curbside pick up and staying away from other people unless absolutely necessary.

I certainly do have sympathy for those who don't have a choice.

But that is a tiny fraction of half the state that are able but refuse.

yes maybe 0.001% but are out there.

Is there any way back from this anti-vaccine conspiracy or is society just doomed from now on? What about the next crisis of ANY type? Is there going to be any way forward?

This division caused by Trump will take decades to recover from, if we ever do. How sad that Holt is pigeonholed into likely having to look the other way just because half the population is having a temper tantrum over being responsible citizens.

Is there any way back from this anti-vaccine conspiracy or is society just doomed from now on? What about the next crisis of ANY type? Is there going to be any way forward?

This division caused by Trump will take decades to recover from, if we ever do. How sad that Holt is pigeonholed into likely having to look the other way just because half the population is having a temper tantrum over being responsible citizens.

There was division in the country long before Trump, but that’s a discussion for a Politics thread.

Is there any way back from this anti-vaccine conspiracy or is society just doomed from now on? What about the next crisis of ANY type? Is there going to be any way forward?

This division caused by Trump will take decades to recover from, if we ever do. How sad that Holt is pigeonholed into likely having to look the other way just because half the population is having a temper tantrum over being responsible citizens.

Pete may be right about Holt and masking, but OKC as a whole is far more vaxxed than any other place in Oklahoma. I read in the NYT today that Oklahoma County is at 58% fully vaccinated for adults over 18. I'm sure the numbers for Oklahoma City are even higher.

Most people supported Holt's efforts and the mask mandate was fairly popular. Carol Hefner and a few other insane idiots railed against it (including people from Edmond who don't even live here).

I have tickets to an upcoming concert at Tower Theatre. I'm hoping they will follow Cain's' lead and demand vaccination proof for entry. If not, I'm reconsidering attending the show.

I also have renewed my OU season tickets, and while fully vaxxed, I got the Pfizer shot and there are indications the immunity begins to taper after six months. I would be lying if I didn't say I'm a bit concerned about going to a fully seated OU stadium. My wife and I are planning to be wearing masks.

There was division in the country long before Trump, but that’s a discussion for a Politics thread.

Absolutely. He drove a wedge in and it and kept driving it.

Is there any way back from this anti-vaccine conspiracy or is society just doomed from now on? What about the next crisis of ANY type? Is there going to be any way forward?

This division caused by Trump will take decades to recover from, if we ever do. How sad that Holt is pigeonholed into likely having to look the other way just because half the population is having a temper tantrum over being responsible citizens.

As far as I can tell this spilt started before Trump and it has been accelerating for a while.

Is there any way back from this anti-vaccine conspiracy or is society just doomed from now on? What about the next crisis of ANY type? Is there going to be any way forward?

This division caused by Trump will take decades to recover from, if we ever do. How sad that Holt is pigeonholed into likely having to look the other way just because half the population is having a temper tantrum over being responsible citizens.

People need to move on from Trump. If they learned nothing from Trump about what can happen to you from not wearing a mask and hanging around unmasked people and end up sick with covid in the hospital, then they will never learn.

It might help if the government or independent media source would take the time to debunk for two hours, like in a town hall meeting, all the wildly extreme nonsense put out by the anti-covid vaxxers. Who knows how many people are exposed to it and take it seriously? For some of them, the end of the world is coming. Quite frankly, if I was under age 50, I'd probably be too afraid to take a covid vaccine. However, as long as I don't hear stories of a bunch of initial test subjects having awful difficulty or experiencing as much as death from the vaccine, I will continue to believe I did the right thing to get COVID-19 vaccine.

People need to move on from Trump. If they learned nothing from Trump about what can happen to you from not wearing a mask and hanging around unmasked people and end up sick with covid in the hospital, then they will never learn.

It might help if the government or independent media source would take the time to debunk for two hours, like in a town hall meeting, all the wildly extreme nonsense put out by the anti-covid vaxxers. Who knows how many people are exposed to it and take it seriously? For some of them, the end of the world is coming. Quite frankly, if I was under age 50, I'd probably be too afraid to take a covid vaccine. However, as long as I don't hear stories of a bunch of initial test subjects having awful difficulty or experiencing as much as death from the vaccine, I will continue to believe I did the right thing to get COVID-19 vaccine.
This is horse****. At this point, there’s no need for debunking needed. It’s willful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the unvaccinated.

This is horse****. At this point, there’s no need for debunking needed. It’s willful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the unvaccinated.

The difference between you and Bunty is that Bunty is trying to think of practical ways to help mostly young, rural, black, uneducated, and poorer people. Your blind obedience to your team and disregard for your fellow citizens is a great example of the increasing division in the nation.

It is okay to be sad about the numbers, it is okay to wish people believed how you believe, it is okay to advocate policies you think will improve the situation. It is not okay to reflexly root for your team and run down others.

The difference between you and Bunty is that Bunty is trying to think of practical ways to help mostly young, rural, black, uneducated, and poorer people. Your blind obedience to your team and disregard for your fellow citizens is a great example of the increasing division in the nation.

It is okay to be sad about the numbers, it is okay to wish people believed how you believe, it is okay to advocate policies you think will improve the situation. It is not okay to reflexly root for your team and run down others.
lol ok

Pete, do please have sympathy for those small % who for medical reasons cannot receive the vaccine. The number of people is low but out there. Those who cannot have to be very very careful right now. Masks, social distance, curbside pick up and staying away from other people unless absolutely necessary.

He’s literally showing more sympathy for that small segment of people by how upset he is at all the selfish people who dont fall in that category but still refuse the vaccine.

If those people would get vaxed then that very small group of medically incapable of receiving the vaccine could get back to their lives sooner.

I agree shaming may not work, but playing pattycake with brazen liars and conspiracists is failing too. Maybe a little tough love is in order now.

Maybe a little tough love is in order now.

Good idea let's attack the general public, what could go wrong?


https://twitter.com/ClementLanot/status/1418970195859750922

Rage for the Machine guru.

What do you recommend? Open minded here.

What do you recommend? Open minded here.

Look up thread and see my recommendation regarding cutting a deal with Trump. The main stream news outlets have zero influence over 50% of the country. They were okay with this fact, because in essence main stream news outlets were happy speaking to people like you only. It was a business decision.

If you want to reach the other half the country you need to reach them on the outlets were they consume information (infographics, memes, and alt tech videos, any others?) and get people they trust to push your information (like trump). It's either that or bring out the water hoses and tear gas to force compliance. Of course physical violence does not change the mind.

^

Or, political pressure by voters could force their leaders to stop lying to them with the end result of hundreds of thousands of people dying. All this bluster about 'personal responsibility'; where is it??

How about not voting for and supporting the people who keep putting this misinformation out there? How about calling to account the politicians in our own state that are abetting this nonsense (which is practically all of them).

But no, let's cut a deal with the devil so these types of lies and manipulation can become even more entrenched and lead to more craziness which will continue to have dire consequences far beyond the pandemic.

That's like saying we should give terrorists exactly what they want.

^ Everything in life has a cost. If unity during a public health emergency is the highest priority then you will need to get the leaders on both sides on board. I think unity path is a quicker and uses less state power than forcings the population into compliance or voting out the current leadership. When are the elections? November? What will be the case count by then?

^ Everything in life has a cost. If unity during a public health emergency is the highest priority then you will need to get the leaders on both sides on board. I think unity path is a quicker and uses less state power than forcings the population into compliance or voting out the current leadership. When are the elections? November? What will be the case count by then?

So you want medical professionals to make a deal with conspiracy theorists so they will make facebook memes that convince antivaxxers to not be morons? Sounds reasonable.

So what “deal” would Trump require in return for not lying to the public. Also, why does the leader of the Republican Party require a deal in order for him to not lie to his constituents?

Lol OMG.

^ Everything in life has a cost. If unity during a public health emergency is the highest priority then you will need to get the leaders on both sides on board. I think unity path is a quicker and uses less state power than forcings the population into compliance or voting out the current leadership. When are the elections? November? What will be the case count by then?

I understand what you are saying and don't mean to attack. We're all frustrated and worried and looking for a way to change the trends.


To be fair, Biden has reached out to Fox News and it seems to be having at least a slight effect.

But our own bloody governor won't even encourage Oklahomans to get a free and widely available vaccine. He was directly asked and flatly said 'no'. I don't care what you think and what you believe, that is completely unbelievable, yet it continues with no real consequence.

If people would just put political bias aside and put pressure on him from within is his own party, that would make a massive difference. And he is up for reelection soon and that is the best possible leverage. But here we are with his supporters/enablers doing next to zero. And then hypocritically pontificate about 'personal responsibility' and 'freedom'.

We can talk all day long about leaders but it is people that give and continue to provide the power and influence.

I think anti-vaxxers are a lot worse than politicians in putting out false info. I hope the anti-vaxxers are subject to civil lawsuits.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57958358.amp

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53892856.amp

Completely avoidable tragedies. I am fearful for my family, as they are mostly all anti-vaxxers. As mentioned above I have two family members in critical condition right now - haven’t heard updates yet. But my immediate family is still calling this a hoax, “the China Flu”, and other nonsense.

I am angry at the people responsible for starting the conspiracy theories and those who continue to push them. This is just ridiculous.

I am angry at the people responsible for starting the conspiracy theories and those who continue to push them. This is just ridiculous.

I try to imagine how this will be explained to future generations.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: This is the absolute dumbest thing to ever happen in the U.S., especially since there is a simple, easy and free way to fix this problem.

I am angry at the people responsible for starting the conspiracy theories and those who continue to push them. This is just ridiculous.

Like this guy:

The most influential spreader of coronavirus misinformation online (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/the-most-influential-spreader-of-coronavirus-misinformation-online/)

It's really just a few scammers inventing it with politicians and infotainment outlets capitalizing on it.

Like this guy:

The most influential spreader of coronavirus misinformation online (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/the-most-influential-spreader-of-coronavirus-misinformation-online/)

It's really just a few scammers inventing it with politicians and infotainment outlets capitalizing on it.

But very high-profile politicians are feeding directly into the distrust.

And you also have lots of bots from Russia and elsewhere fanning these flames. Of course, none of that would matter much if we had responsible leadership here.

As it is, you have tons of governors and congressmen advancing the core idea that there is something unsafe about the vaccine -- and more importantly -- directly or indirectly making people feel like they are being disloyal to their party if they get vaccinated. It's so incredibly messed up but also simple.

I think anti-vaxxers are a lot worse than politicians in putting out false info. I hope the anti-vaxxers are subject to civil lawsuits.

+1, but i’m not sure how you could ever quantify the damages. Would be a difficult exercise for even a smart jury. And most of them aren’t.

‘Unsafe about the virus’- I think you mean unsafe about the vaccine, but we get your point. Unforgivable behavior by the politicians, in any case.

3,669 new cases reported today for the 3-day period. Last several Mondays: 2,126, 1,211, 1,041, 580, 451.

7-day rolling average now 1,159.

Hospitalizations are 519 (+24).

ICU is 165 (+6)

The first week of June was when case numbers and other metrics were at their lowest.

In just 7 weeks:

Average daily cases increased from 111 to 1,159; more than a 10-fold increase.

Hospitalizations went from 109 to 519; a 5-fold increase.

ICU went from 30 to 165; an almost 6-fold increase.

Remember that hospital and ICU numbers are lagging indicators, but highly correlated to the number of positive cases.


And we are back to the numbers we were seeing in mid-February before the benefits of the vaccine started to kick in.

We are also in worse shape than we were a year ago and the upward trend is considerably stronger.

OK climbed a spot to no. 8 in cases/100k and since we are now 7th in average new daily cases/100k it will only get worse. Govs from FL, AL & AR all have been recently urging their citizens to get vaccinated. Stitt has been completely silent. What a huge lack of leadership on his part.

UK just rolled over hard a couple of days ago as well as a few other countries. I expect the same for the US in about 2 to 3 weeks at least for the summer.

Also consider that during the winter/early spring, we still had stores requiring masks and social distancing. Now its life back to "normal". How many people do you all still see social distancing or wearing masks? Very few. I've been called out in stores by employees because I've asked people to please social distance. "you have no right to talk to other custumers like that" Leave the store.

OK climbed a spot to no. 8 in cases/100k and since we are now 7th in average new daily cases/100k it will only get worse. Govs from FL, AL & AR all have been recently urging their citizens to get vaccinated. Stitt has been completely silent. What a huge lack of leadership on his part.

He had strong anti-vax leanings before he was elected.

That's absurd in the best of times but catastrophic in a pandemic.


And keep in mind, he is getting almost no pressure from anyone in his party; certainly not local voters.

I try to imagine how this will be explained to future generations.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: This is the absolute dumbest thing to ever happen in the U.S., especially since there is a simple, easy and free way to fix this problem.

Add to that the deliberate lies about the election by conspiratorial truthers, which even our own Congressional delegation has played around with, and you're looking at something rivaling the worst periods in history for any nation, and often (usually?) a precursor to an authoritarian dictatorship. But we can't say the person's name out loud.

I now know four people to get COVID19 in the last few weeks. You can already guess what they had in common.

Just sad really.

I know several who are vaxxed and got it too. So far none of them has gotten very sick.

Somebody I know was part of those statistics one of those days. Runs liberal, but wellness community. I can fill in the blanks if anybody here doesn't know where that goes...

In the past three weeks, know more people who had the vaccine and got COVID than those that did not have the vaccine who go it.

In the past three weeks, know more people who had the vaccine and got COVID than those that did not have the vaccine who go it.

Right, but for vaccinated folks breakthrough cases tend to be asympomatic or mild. This is somewhat expected as vaccinated people are often going on about their lives since they are largely protected. Early evidence suggests vaccinated people are also less likely to spread COVID to others when infected.

The risk of a COVID case for an unvaccinated person with the dominant Delta variant is now more harmful for hospitalizations, death, and spread than it ever has been in the pandemic.

Also, you probably know more vaccinated people than unvaccinated people, so the fact that you know more breakthroughs than regular infections really doesn't tell us much, anecdotally.

Right, but for vaccinated folks breakthrough cases tend to be asympomatic or mild. This is somewhat expected as vaccinated people are often going on about their lives since they are largely protected. Early evidence suggests vaccinated people are also less likely to spread COVID to others when infected.

The risk of a COVID case for an unvaccinated person with the dominant Delta variant is now more harmful for hospitalizations, death, and spread than it ever has been in the pandemic.

One of the best explanations I have heard regarding the protections you get both as a vaccinated person and specifically as a vaccinated person who gets a breakthrough case (and why breakthroughs happen to begin with) can be found in this article today from The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/07/anatomy-of-a-vaccine-breakthrough/619562/).

I try to imagine how this will be explained to future generations.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: This is the absolute dumbest thing to ever happen in the U.S., especially since there is a simple, easy and free way to fix this problem.

You're too optimistic.

We are in Idiocracy times, where satire has become reality. I fear it's only going to get worse.

Here comes the masks indoors again, even for the vaccinated.

So like... This is never going to end until the unvaccinated die, right?

773 new cases today; last several Tuesdays: 465, 177, 85, 162.

7-day average now 1,197.

Hospitalizations with a big jump up to 577 (+58).

Same for ICU: 187 (+22).

Here comes the masks indoors again, even for the vaccinated.

So like... This is never going to end until the unvaccinated die, right?

At least until they die in enough numbers to get us to the herd immunity percentage...

Here comes the masks indoors again, even for the vaccinated.

So like... This is never going to end until the unvaccinated die, right?

I prefer to be optimistic and hope that we can convince enough people to get vaccinated instead...

But yes, until the R0 is <1 through lack of viable hosts, this will continue to be a problem.

I prefer to be optimistic and hope that we can convince enough people to get vaccinated instead...

But yes, until the R0 is <1 through lack of viable hosts, this will continue to be a problem.
I've been optimistic too. But I've actually heard at least a dozen conversations in the last couple of weeks with one side saying "I haven't heard anything about a Delta variant and didn't know cases were going back up". Ignorance is bliss for the ignorant but scary for everyone else.

On the "plus" side, this Delta wave is likely to give antibodies to a large number of the population (either through vaccines or natural infection) and hopefully is the last big wave before this thing turns endemic and just burns in the background like the flu or colds or other viruses. Also, Delta burns quickly (just check out the stats in the Netherlands or UK or Russia or Indonesia) so we should be done with this masking business by Halloween at the latest.