kids under 12 have virtually 0 risk of getting sick of covid ..... that is a statistical fact ..

This is complete horsesh*t. There are 26 pediatric cases in Oklahoma RIGHT NOW who are hospitalized. You are going on first-wave information and I gather you have not kept up with the fact that 1) Children are very efficient vectors of Delta, and 2) Delta is affecting young people considerably more than previous strains of the virus.

From today's Oklahoman:


The state Health Department on Wednesday reported 413 COVID-19 patients, 26 of which were pediatric, were in Oklahoma hospital beds, including 139 in intensive care.

Meanwhile, in Britain, they are literally out of pediatric ICU beds (https://twitter.com/doctor_katie/status/1417893831459155970) for the second day in a row

This is complete horsesh*t. There are 26 pediatric cases in Oklahoma RIGHT NOW who are hospitalized. You are going on first-wave information and I gather you have not kept up with the fact that 1) Children are very efficient vectors of Delta, and 2) Delta is affecting young people considerably more than previous strains of the virus.

From today's Oklahoman:

Just as a side not we don't actually know ages. They could be above 12 and some places even use those beds for adults. The haven't told us the ages yet.

Regardless of exact numbers, this is a scary trend as kids head back to school en masse for the first time in over a year.

Regardless of exact numbers, this is a scary trend as kids head back to school en masse for the first time in over a year.

Absolutely. With the faster spread of Delta as well it makes it even faster to go between hosts.

I hate to say this but perhaps kids getting sick is going to be what it takes for most resisters to finally get vaccinated.

It's one thing to risk your own life, it's quite another to risk the health of your kids or children in general.

Just as a side not we don't actually know ages. They could be above 12 and some places even use those beds for adults. The haven't told us the ages yet.

Who cares? There are already global examples of children under 12 getting sick and dying. The point is to try to counter outright misinformation, as Boulder provided, not to split hairs.

Misinformation is to blame for probably 80% of Covid death in the United States.

I hate to say this but perhaps kids getting sick is going to be what it takes for most resisters to finally get vaccinated.

It's one thing to risk your own life, it's quite another to risk the health of your kids or children in general.

To your point, I found this story gripping:

"I'm sorry, but it's too late..." -- Alabama doctor on treating unvaccinated, dying COVID patients

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

I hate to say this but perhaps kids getting sick is going to be what it takes for most resisters to finally get vaccinated.

It's one thing to risk your own life, it's quite another to risk the health of your kids or children in general.

Many will say it's "God's will." Frankly, I think DHS should be called against parents who will not allow their children to be vaccinated.

To your point, I found this story gripping:

"I'm sorry, but it's too late..." -- Alabama doctor on treating unvaccinated, dying COVID patients

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

Yeah, that's rough. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for so many health care workers. IMO, this says it all (from the article):


“I try to be very non-judgmental when I’m getting a new COVID patient that’s unvaccinated, but I really just started asking them, ‘Why haven’t you gotten the vaccine?’ And I’ll just ask it point blank, in the least judgmental way possible,” she said. “And most of them, they’re very honest, they give me answers. ‘I talked to this person, I saw this thing on Facebook, I got this email, I saw this on the news,’ you know, these are all the reasons that I didn’t get vaccinated.

“And the one question that I always ask them is, did you make an appointment with your primary care doctor and ask them for their opinion on whether or not you should receive the vaccine? And so far, nobody has answered yes to that question.”

^

Because, as I said before, they are merely looking for the answers they prefer, not the truth.


The truth about all this is incredibly easy. What's hard is continually working to justify your nonsensical decision.

Kids aren't at risk of getting sick and dying from Covid. To suggest that they are is nonsense. To suggest that deaths are spiking is nonsense. It's just the sniffles if you're vaccinated. If you're not vaccinated, you've made your choice.

https://twitter.com/abuttenheim/status/1417461705571983362?s=20

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3/data
https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1417481991663104001?s=20

The goal is don't overwhelm hospitals, low deaths. We are there by every standard.

i disagree. when determining whether or not to mask my child, the question isn't "what are the chances that my covid-exposed child will need to be hospitalized?"... the question is, "what are the chances of my child needing hospitalization for covid?"... child hospitalizations over total children gets you that metric.

However, all metrics increase as exposure increases. That's the fundamental fuel for the pandemic and it can be exponential.

Sending kids to school without masks or any other preventative measures increases exposure. In tun, child hospitalizations go up as your 'total children' denominator is constant. And as cases go up in children, exposure goes up across all demographics fueling the cycle even more.

Kids wearing masks at school is not exclusively about the kids, it's about ending a pandemic of a contagious disease.

Another way to look at it is to flip the demo statistics. Let's say there is a pandemic with a coronavirus that did not affect adults, yet they could still be infected and transmit it to kids, who, in turn would suffer a higher probability of sickness and death. And let's say that coronavirus could be controlled by masking and social distancing, and could be ended with a vaccine. Would the adults in the room really be saying "I won't wear a mask or get a vaccine because it doesn't affect me?" Would politicians, talking heads, and internet posters be advocating for banning these measures from being required because of "freedom"?

At this point, I'm not sure, because I never imagined that this many people would be actively working against ending a pandemic.

We are there by every standard.

We were there. Headed in the other direction right now.

We were there. Headed in the other direction right now.

If you are vaccinated we ARE there. The spike in cases is the un-vaccinated.

Kids aren't at risk of getting sick and dying from Covid. To suggest that they are is nonsense. To suggest that deaths are spiking is nonsense. It's just the sniffles if you're vaccinated. If you're not vaccinated, you've made your choice.

https://twitter.com/abuttenheim/status/1417461705571983362?s=20

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3/data
https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1417481991663104001?s=20

The goal is don't overwhelm hospitals, low deaths. We are there by every standard.

Thankfully no one is suggesting that they are dying from COVID in large numbers, so great straw man you defeated with your links there. What they are getting is infected and sick, and a not insignificant (and definitely not "virtually zero") portion of them are dealing with symptoms long after the initial infection. Masking is a simple, low-level intervention that limits spread and keeps kids safer. That's all the argument is here.

More trashing of the board with fake discourse.

If you are vaccinated we ARE there. The spike in cases is the un-vaccinated.

As I commented a couple pages back. Two fully vaccinated adults in this house are part of those numbers and no, it has not been "just the sniffles".

Apparently reflected of northeast Oklahoma being a hot spot, Claremore spiked ahead of Stillwater today in total number of cases. Now 69 more. Stillwater is up 28.

^

Missouri and Arkansas are both currently raging.


Florida had almost 9,000 cases today. Louisana had 5,300.

The old confederate states are by far the worst spots.

^

Missouri and Arkansas are both currently raging.


Florida had almost 9,000 cases today. Louisana had 5,300.

The old confederate states are by far the worst spots.

Ok time for some outside the box thinking. What demographics are most at risk for the virus? Older people without a jab. Who do older people without the jab like and who will they follow with a cultist QAnon fever? Donald Trump. Who does Donald Trump care about? Donald Trump. So cut a deal with Donald Trump that benefits Donald Trump to push the jabs to people who cultish follow Donald Trump.

There you go.

^

Biden has been reaching out to Fox News for this very reason.

I am pretty sure the only way you’ll get the hard core Trump GOP to take it is to make the syringes look gold plated, with TRUMP logo on it. And then rename it the OwnTheLibs vaccine. A specially formulated vaccine developed by Trump himself and contains special ingredients the normal vaccine does not contain. These ingredients include hormones to increase genitalia size, diesel exhaust plume thickness, reversal of unwanted election results, and a special wind correction agent for those down range shots at outdoor gun ranges. Fauci DOES NOT want you to know about this! Limited time offer!

As I commented a couple pages back. Two fully vaccinated adults in this house are part of those numbers and no, it has not been "just the sniffles".

President of the United States disagrees.

https://twitter.com/breaking911/status/1418017801437073411?s=21

As I commented a couple pages back. Two fully vaccinated adults in this house are part of those numbers and no, it has not been "just the sniffles".

In Alabama 96% of hospitalized patients were un vaccinated.

President of the United States disagrees.

https://twitter.com/breaking911/status/1418017801437073411?s=21

Yep, he's dead wrong about this (and some of his other answers in this town hall were...yikes. But that's for a politics thread).

BUT!

The vaccine does make it very, very, very unlikely you will need to be hospitalized, let alone die, from this thing.

Also, the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines are ~85% effective against symptomatic COVID (https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1417964189566472195), which is nothing to sneeze at (pun intended)

In Alabama 96% of hospitalized patients were un vaccinated.

99.5% of Texas COVID deaths since February are unvaccinated: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/21/coronavirus-texas-vaccinated-deaths/

I am pretty sure the only way you’ll get the hard core Trump GOP to take it is to make the syringes look gold plated, with TRUMP logo on it. And then rename it the OwnTheLibs vaccine. A specially formulated vaccine developed by Trump himself and contains special ingredients the normal vaccine does not contain. These ingredients include hormones to increase genitalia size, diesel exhaust plume thickness, reversal of unwanted election results, and a special wind correction agent for those down range shots at outdoor gun ranges. Fauci DOES NOT want you to know about this! Limited time offer!

You are funny. You should write for SNL. They would love your skit.

At the end of the day there are 7.6 billion people on the planet and only about 10 percent are vaccinated or even have access to vaccines. So if we're worried about variants, I would be looking outside the western world.

At the end of the day there are 7.6 billion people on the planet and only about 10 percent are vaccinated or even have access to vaccines. So if we're worried about variants, I would be looking outside the western world.

The U.S. does not exist in a bubble.

The virus originated in China and the Delta variant came from elsewhere, and look at the havoc in this country.

Unfortunately, we are all in this together.

At the end of the day there are 7.6 billion people on the planet and only about 10 percent are vaccinated or even have access to vaccines. So if we're worried about variants, I would be looking outside the western world.
I’m not sure what your intention was with this comment but for one Joe Biden has done just that by donating and shipping vaccines to other countries.

I also think by far and large the point is you have zero excuse for not being vaccinated. None. Vaccines are free and plentiful. You are either a science denier or mentally ill. There so many resources available to get one it isn’t funny. It’s infuriating how so many have the opportunity others around the world would kill and they couldn’t care less in fact they mock it by pretending like they care about others or are upholding the friendly Oklahoman mantle but won’t get a simple shot that could save lives.

The U.S. does not exist in a bubble.

The virus originated in China and the Delta variant came from elsewhere, and look at the havoc in this country.

Unfortunately, we are all in this together.

And there is no assurance that if we let all this run rampant there won't be ANOTHER variant that is even more disastrous. The longer we let it hang around and mutate we run a very dire risk.

The whole world could have been vaccinated already (https://www.alternet.org/2021/07/vaccine-worldwide/)

Turns out I have 2 distant relatives who are impacted greatly by the Delta variant. Both are in their 60’s in relatively poor health to begin with - both refused vaccines and are staunch anti-vaxxers. One is in ICU, and his wife is in critical condition also but refuses to leave her house to go to the hospital. Hoping for a recovery but it quite frankly doesn’t look good for either one. They were playing with fire by refusing to get vaccinated, or practice any of the recommendations over the past year and a half of distancing and mask wearing.

It’s really not worth the risk. I think of that article posted up thread about the nurse who says it’s too late for the vaccine when you are already severely infected. All could be completely avoided.

Holy crap... 1,581 new cases reported today. Last several Thursdays: 705, 456, 329, 273, 209.

7-day rolling average now 875.

Hospitalizations are 441 (+28), up from 106 on 6/13.

ICU is 145 (+6), up from 30 on 6/29.

Vaccinations are also reported on Thursdays.

In the past week, 16,234 more Oklahomans became fully vaccinated.

That equates to 39.5% of everyone in the state and 52.1% of those over 18 and over.

Pete, today's numbers are very troubling. I hate to think what next week or the week after's numbers will be like. I'll be hunkering down for the time being. ( well I have been, my truck has been in the shop for the last 6 weeks ugh so I've been at home, and I wont go into that mess) I think we all will be in for a rough ride. Even those who are vaccinated are not immune from the effects this can have. Employees off sick with it will have an effect on the whole of society.

Vaccinations are also reported on Thursdays.

In the past week, 16,234 more Oklahomans became fully vaccinated.

That equates to 39.5% of everyone in the state and 52.1% of those over 18 and over.

The only (relatively) encouraging news is this for Oklahoma County:


Oklahoma County is the state's vaccine leader with 64% of 12+ having at least one shot compared to 55% statewide.

In the northeast, that number drops to 36%-49%, and as low as 31% in the southeast
Source: https://twitter.com/KOCODillon/status/1418245029500497922

That still needs to get much higher, but I'm glad to at least live in what is clearly the most sane and wise part of the state right now (and, giving credit where it is due, that we have a Republican mayor who is an outspoken proponent of vaccines).

Man, these numbers are really ramping up faster than anytime before. I'm worried about my kids....

Wish other people cared enough about each other to do the right thing here.

If you are vaccinated we ARE there. The spike in cases is the un-vaccinated.

By "we", I meant the country. And half the country is still unvaccinated. Which is why we're going in the wrong direction. And that problem is compounded by the fact less than 15% of the world is vaccinated.

However, your point makes a good case for making vaccines mandatory.

Dr Bratzler said today he thinks we won’t have as high of a peak as the past, but we are still 6 to 8 weeks away from the peak of this. He said he is in support of universal masking this fall. OU could be bringing back the mask.

Dr Bratzler said today he thinks we won’t have as high of a peak as the past, but we are still 6 to 8 weeks away from the peak of this. He said he is in support of universal masking this fall. OU could be bringing back the mask.

Lots of schools start in the middle of August which is only about 3 weeks away.

Something is going to have to be done other than throwing open the doors and packing in kids.

Yeah we're gonna see cases rise and peak somewhere in late September/October. It'll be interesting to see if that then results in a much lower winter peak over the holidays (which would be ideal, since we're most likely going to see a resurgence of flu this year).

Lots of schools start in the middle of August which is only about 3 weeks away.

Something is going to have to be done other than throwing open the doors and packing in kids.

Edmond starts 3 weeks from today

12,600 new cases in Florida today.

Meanwhile, their governor is selling this merchandise:

https://media.nbcmiami.com/2021/07/Screen-Shot-2021-07-13-at-3.36.51-PM.png?fit=1558%2C900&quality=85&strip=all&w=975&h=548&crop=1

12,600 new cases in Florida today.

Meanwhile, their governor is selling this merchandise:

Literally rooting for the virus to infect his constituents.

Oklahoma has moved up to #9 in cases per capita.

Dead five year old in Georgia, posted here for the deniers.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/5-year-old-georgia-boy-dies-from-covid-19-as-delta-variant-rapidly-spreads/#app

https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/545918150/studies-point-to-erectile-dysfunction-and-peyronie-s-disease-as-potential-long-haul-covid-19-complications

Maybe this will get people to vaccinate!

From an editorial in the Oklahoman (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/opinion/2021/07/22/oklahoma-gov-kevin-stitt-should-put-public-health-over-politics/8029984002/) today:


The numbers are telling — and scary. Since June 1, the seven-day rolling average of new COVID-19 cases in Oklahoma has jumped nearly 500%. Our vaccination rates are among the lowest in the country. Less than 40% of the state is fully vaccinated. About 8% of our young people, under age 18, are fully vaccinated, according to the Mayo Clinic vaccine tracker.

Last Sunday, our reporter Carmen Forman showed how Oklahoma is following the track of many predominantly red states in lagging behind on vaccinations. Whether it’s politics, fear, misinformation or complacency as restrictions have eased, consider this: The unvaccinated make up 90% of recent hospitalizations, according to the Oklahoma Health Department.

Yet our governor, Kevin Stitt, as if channeling the will of parts of his base, seems content to sit back and let the pandemic run its course, even as the dangerous new delta variant surges across the state.

The governor in March smartly made a public show of getting his Johnson & Johnson vaccination, which requires only one dose. But recently asked by our reporter if the governor planned to do more to encourage Oklahomans to get a shot, Stitt’s spokeswoman replied, “No.”

1,194 new cases today; last several Fridays: 750, 551, 303, 224, 181.

7-day rolling average 938; highest since 2/18.

Hospitalizations are 495 (+54). Highest since 2/26.

ICU is 159 (+14). Highest since 2/24.

********

For the week:

6,559 new cases; last several weeks: 3,925, 1,648, 1,270, 1,151.

Hospitalizations were +172.

ICU was +48.

Flori-Duh

At the presser today Stitt said he will not being doing another emergency act over covid.

At the presser today Stitt said he will not being doing another emergency act over covid.

The disgust and frustration I feel over this as the spouse of a teacher headed back into the classroom is almost hard to describe. So much for our purportedly cherished local control...........

At the presser today Stitt said he will not being doing another emergency act over covid.

I didn't think it possible that I could end up hating him as much as I do. Fallin, Henry, Keating -- any of them would be doing better than him. He is literally the worst possible leader for this moment.

Oklahoma has even passed a law expressly prohibiting schools from requiring masks.

Not only are we doing next to nothing -- not even the governor bothering to encourage vaccinations -- the state is actively working against containing the disease.

Has there been any discussion about OKC reinstituting a city-wide mask mandate? Is it even possible anymore (I plead ignorance on whether any of Stitt's edicts disallow local municipal mask mandates like, I believe, has been done with school mask mandates)?

Oklahoma has even passed a law expressly prohibiting schools from requiring masks.

Not only are we doing next to nothing -- not even the governor bothering to encourage vaccinations -- the state is actively working against containing the disease.

It really sucks how history books are going to look back on us.

Has there been any discussion about OKC reinstituting a city-wide mask mandate?

I believe Holt would have to declare a state of emergency first.

Remember, he is up for reelection soon. He'll likely maintain a pretty hands-off approach given that many are tired of restrictions and to be more proactive would be politically unpopular with a good percentage of voters.

I believe Holt would have to declare a state of emergency first.

Remember, he is up for reelection soon. He'll likely maintain a pretty hands-off approach given that many are tired of restrictions and to be more proactive would be politically unpopular with a good percentage of voters.

I see. If that is his line of reasoning, that would be disappointing.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it sure would be nice to see politicians make (sometimes difficult or unpopular) decisions in the best interest of their constituents over what is politically (or monetarily) advantageous.

If OKC/Oklahoma county has a (relatively) higher percentage of the eligible adult population vaccinated than the state in general, it would seem to me that maybe OKC residents (and voters) may not be as anti-mask as the rest of the state? Or maybe I'm just very naive.