How... darwinian.

Among this segment, how many are strictly vulnerable to Covid only? This segment is vulnerable to all diseases that never required shut downs before.

Among this segment, how many are strictly vulnerable to Covid only? This segment is vulnerable to all diseases that never required shut downs before.

Do you think "all diseases" are equally as transmissible or as dangerous to the "vulnerable segment?" Are you truly that stupid? Of course you are.

Sorry to everyone else for the bluntness/meanness in response, but I'm simply over dealing with people who are willfully stupid on this topic. We're 1 year into this and there are still people who actively choose to remain ignorant. Maybe I should just take a break from reading these geniuses.

Among this segment, how many are strictly vulnerable to Covid only? This segment is vulnerable to all diseases that never required shut downs before.

We had 18 new deaths today, and 867 new cases. This is not comparable to any other disease going around right now, and we're certainly not at the point that we could argue that reopening with segments of our population still vulnerable is a reasonable risk. If we got to no active community spread in the area and get to where we're not still in the double digits for daily deaths, then I think we can start talking about it.

We had 18 new deaths today, and 867 new cases. This is not comparable to any other disease going around right now, and we're certainly not at the point that we could argue that reopening with segments of our population still vulnerable is a reasonable risk. If we got to no active community spread in the area and get to where we're not still in the double digits for daily deaths, then I think we can start talking about it.

I don't think you all are understanding what I'm saying. What percentage of the population has immune systems so weak that they cannot receive a Covid vaccine AND who would take different precautions in a world without Covid versus a world with Covid, but all able and willing adults have had the vaccine (a logical point and time to consider getting back to normal)?

Should this small sect determine how and when to get back to normal?

I don't think you all are understanding what I'm saying. What percentage of the population has immune systems so weak that they cannot receive a Covid vaccine AND who would take different precautions in a world without Covid versus a world with Covid, but all able and willing adults have had the vaccine (a logical point and time to consider getting back to normal)?

Should this small sect determine how and when to get back to normal?

Yes, they absolutely should be a factor in consideration. Either we should have enough immunizations to have hit some sort of herd immunity, or new cases should be below a certain threshold (or basically non-existent). These aren't unreasonable requirements to safely and widely return to normalcy.

Yes, they absolutely should be a factor in consideration. Either we should have enough immunizations to have hit some sort of herd immunity, or new cases should be below a certain threshold (or basically non-existent). These aren't unreasonable requirements to safely and widely return to normalcy.
Absolutely right!

So are you saying that some of us older folks who are vulnerable should just go ahead and get covid and die?? So are lives dont matter? Look I had to go into Lowe's for a few things and I cannot figure out their website. They were getting tired of me pulling into the pickup parking and calling them and asking them if they could get me ...... and ........ and. something that would work for........ If you have no one to shop for you and you live alone what are you to do? People crowed me and i tried to get away while leaning on a shopping cart with my items in it. I have a bad knee and went down again. I am getting tired of trying to run and end up falling. Many people in; that store with no mask or not wearing it over their noses and walking up to me. I tell them to get back and they say I cannot hear you and keep trying to get closer. This is getting to be a big problem. No one cares about older folks anymore.

It amazes me how in a society that is supposed to be pushing toward "everyone is equal, everyone matters, everyone is important". Until some people group interferes with what you want. Then that group is irrelevant. Sad.

Yes you are so right Bill.

So are you saying that some of us older folks who are vulnerable should just go ahead and get covid and die?? So are lives dont matter? Look I had to go into Lowe's for a few things and I cannot figure out their website. They were getting tired of me pulling into the pickup parking and calling them and asking them if they could get me ...... and ........ and. something that would work for........ If you have no one to shop for you and you live alone what are you to do? People crowed me and i tried to get away while leaning on a shopping cart with my items in it. I have a bad knee and went down again. I am getting tired of trying to run and end up falling. Many people in; that store with no mask or not wearing it over their noses and walking up to me. I tell them to get back and they say I cannot hear you and keep trying to get closer. This is getting to be a big problem. No one cares about older folks anymore.

I have made it a personal goal to never allow the elderly in our family to live in such a condition alone. It is simply immoral for a person to leave thier elderly and weak to live life alone.

Wow. There’s quite a bit of misrepresentations of what was actually said. I’ll try one more time.
From a macro level, no one minute portion of the population (as small as the defined one in my aforementioned post) should be the tipping point for society. I simply don’t believe that a segment this small should affect when millions of children return to school, when the millions in the hospitality industry can fully recover, all those in the energy sector, and on and on.
In a few months, all able and willing adults will have had the vaccine. Reality is that millions will elect not to. I’d rather they do, but this is still America and they won’t be forced. Waiting for the moment where there is no virtual possibility of a non-vaccinated person to get COVID is not an option. At its current form, it will take +/- years to fully die out.

If you’re set on twisting my words into me not caring about all the elderly, which is clearly not what was stated, then I can’t help you. Reasonable people can disagree, but don’t mince words. If anyone here is struggling to run an errand, DM me and I’ll gladly help you out.

Waiting for the moment where there is no virtual possibility of a non-vaccinated person to get COVID is not an option.

That is completely untrue.

779 new cases today; 7-day rolling average 783.

59 additional reported deaths; 7-day rolling average 32.0.

Hospitalizations are 484 (-42).

ICU is 150 (-0).

Wow. There’s quite a bit of misrepresentations of what was actually said. I’ll try one more time.
From a macro level, no one minute portion of the population (as small as the defined one in my aforementioned post) should be the tipping point for society. I simply don’t believe that a segment this small should affect when millions of children return to school, when the millions in the hospitality industry can fully recover, all those in the energy sector, and on and on.
In a few months, all able and willing adults will have had the vaccine. Reality is that millions will elect not to. I’d rather they do, but this is still America and they won’t be forced. Waiting for the moment where there is no virtual possibility of a non-vaccinated person to get COVID is not an option. At its current form, it will take +/- years to fully die out.

If you’re set on twisting my words into me not caring about all the elderly, which is clearly not what was stated, then I can’t help you. Reasonable people can disagree, but don’t mince words. If anyone here is struggling to run an errand, DM me and I’ll gladly help you out.
Three posts explaining your case and you're not looking a bit better. The main thing is you keep calling a large part of society, the vulnerable people, minute. In our country where obesity and unhealthy lifestyles run rampant this is not a minute group.

59 more deaths today from Covid and Mayor Holt makes a joke about licking door knobs in his Facebook post today. Disappointing to say the least.

The whole quote:

"The precipitous decline in new COVID-19 cases has paused. It is too soon to say whether we’re in an upward trajectory, but it is clear that since February 17th, we are no longer in a downward trajectory. This new chart below is a reminder that this thing isn’t over quite yet. We still have a lot of people in this community who have not yet been vaccinated. We can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but we can’t rip off our masks and start licking door knobs yet. The current 7-day rolling average is 241 new cases per day in the Oklahoma City metro, which would have been considered a very high number anytime between March and September. So please, continue to take precautions as the vaccinations continue. Wear your mask, keep your distance and wash your hands. Be well, OKC!"

59 more deaths today from Covid and Mayor Holt makes a joke about licking door knobs in his Facebook post today. Disappointing to say the least.

Just a heads up many of the deaths were from a while ago. They clarified the numbers later.

https://twitter.com/pmonies/status/1365744498689658882?s=21

--36 deaths since 2/1/21

--8 deaths in January

--15 deaths between 10/5/20 and 12/31/20

The whole quote:

"The precipitous decline in new COVID-19 cases has paused. It is too soon to say whether we’re in an upward trajectory, but it is clear that since February 17th, we are no longer in a downward trajectory. This new chart below is a reminder that this thing isn’t over quite yet. We still have a lot of people in this community who have not yet been vaccinated. We can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but we can’t rip off our masks and start licking door knobs yet. The current 7-day rolling average is 241 new cases per day in the Oklahoma City metro, which would have been considered a very high number anytime between March and September. So please, continue to take precautions as the vaccinations continue. Wear your mask, keep your distance and wash your hands. Be well, OKC!"

Just a reminder below, if needed, how serious coming down with COVID-19 can be even when not very old and in good health. Tragic stories like this hopefully will help encourage people to get vaccinated.

Stillwater firefighter Randy Blake discharged after lengthy battle with COVID-19: https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/stillwater-firefighter-randy-blake-discharged-after-lengthy-battle-with-covid-19/article_e4e5a64c-1e39-59bd-bf06-3b600e9ad543.html

Three posts explaining your case and you're not looking a bit better. The main thing is you keep calling a large part of society, the vulnerable people, minute. In our country where obesity and unhealthy lifestyles run rampant this is not a minute group.

Well, I wouldn’t have to reiterate if everyone that has responded to me didn’t deliberately mix my words - just as you’ve done in this post. It’s really not that hard to debate the actual context.

If multiple people are coming to the same generally negative perception of your post, I think it’s safe to say that the issue lies with the writer and not the readers

Not going to argue with eugenics guy, but I think it is very reasonable to think things can return closer to normal in the summer.. but it’s not a binary: normal or full pandemic. For example, it’s likely we should keep wearing masks for the rest of the year when in crowded indoor spaces. But, for example, if everyone in a room is vaccinated, masks just aren’t necessary. And people who’ve stayed out of indoor spaces can safely return once vaccinated. There could be another small wave, but things are looking up. People should feel optimistic.

I highly recommend this article by Zeynep Tufekci. She explains the failures in public messaging... really important stuff we must learn from: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/how-public-health-messaging-backfired/618147/

779 new cases today; 7-day rolling average 783.

59 additional reported deaths; 7-day rolling average 32.0.

Hospitalizations are 484 (-42).

ICU is 150 (-0).

So this trend of reduced new case count seems to be solid. Looking forward to it getting to under 500 / day again, as it was in early June.

That being said, the continued high number of deaths is alarming. I realize deaths are lagging indicators of new cases, so it may be a while before we see deaths truly go down, but part of me wonders if the strain of Covid going around right now may be more deadly. The numbers would seem to bear this out.

From a macro level, no one minute portion of the population (as small as the defined one in my aforementioned post) should be the tipping point for society. I simply don’t believe that a segment this small should affect when millions of children return to school, when the millions in the hospitality industry can fully recover, all those in the energy sector, and on and on.

Let me try framing this in a way that may resonate with you more. A miniscule portion of the US population own assault rifles. I don’t believe that a segment this small should affect the safety of millions of children in school, how the millions in law enforcement should behave, all those that have been affected by workplace shootings, and on and on. Do you think we should ban assault weapons?

This is just an example and I have no interest in starting a gun rights discussion, but hopefully it helped to put you in the shoes of the "vulnerable population" and see why they shouldn't just be ignored.

but it’s not a binary: normal or full pandemic. For example, it’s likely we should keep wearing masks for the rest of the year when in crowded indoor spaces. But, for example, if everyone in a room is vaccinated, masks just aren’t necessary. And people who’ve stayed out of indoor spaces can safely return once vaccinated.

I just want to mention that the vaccine will prevent you from getting sick, but there's still a possibility that you can get infected and infect others.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/yes-you-should-still-wear-mask-after-covid-19-vaccination-180977054/

I just want to mention that the vaccine will prevent you from getting sick, but there's still a possibility that you can get infected and infect others.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/yes-you-should-still-wear-mask-after-covid-19-vaccination-180977054/

From the CDC:

Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease.

And from the dictionary.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/vaccine

The data is still out on whether or not these vaccines prevent the spread of COVID, regardless of what the dictionary says.

706 new cases today; 7-day rolling average 736.

49 additional reported deaths; 7-day rolling average 35.3.

I just want to mention that the vaccine will prevent you from getting sick, but there's still a possibility that you can get infected and infect others.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/yes-you-should-still-wear-mask-after-covid-19-vaccination-180977054/


The data is still out on whether or not these vaccines prevent the spread of COVID, regardless of what the dictionary says.

The emerging research is pretty clear that the vaccines will reduce the ability to transmit by 90% or more. Things are looking very good on that front. And if you're around other vaccinated people then the risk of sickness from reinfection is near zero. Again, you should be excited to be vaccinated and increasingly feel comfortable around other vaccinated people. People should continue being cautious (e.g., you still should wear masks indoors in public places because people don't know you're vaccinated), but it's also important people realize that the vaccines will change our lives. There's a lot of "but actually" going on about variants and people are starting to lose hope that the vaccines won't improve their lives. The scientific news is nearly miraculous. We need to acknowledge that more. See the article I posted for a long explanation on this.

My four sisters and I are all older and we all should be fully vaccinated in the next month or so.

I haven't seen most of them for quite a while -- not even over the holidays.

Looking forward to having them all over to my house very soon.

I can't express enough how much of a relief it was to finally get the vaccine. I wasn't jumping for excitement to go get it, but once I was in there sitting at the table it finally hit me like a ton of bricks - this is going to be over at some point, and it seems like it will be sooner than later. I am not incredibly social so I am not missing on personal interactions a ton, but I love to travel and not being able to travel as much as I like has impacted me emotionally. I get my booster on Tuesday, it is just incredibly exciting now to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

^

Yes, and seeing all the people working at these vaccination clinics and the lines of people getting immunized helps to frame the scale of the issue. For most of us, this has been an invisible enemy only affecting the friend of a friend in any serious way.

I'm so ready for this to be over with. I AM very social and involved with all types of groups, plus I just miss my family. It's taken a big toll on my psyche and my business as well, which is nearing the point of no return. As I've posted before, I've been experiencing something like a low-grade depression since this started.

I'm also incredibly tired of worrying about the lack of caring and compassion of so many in the wider population. The vax will cause a paradigm shift, where all the non-believing selfish a-holes will be the ones at risk, not everyone else (apart from some who can't take the vaccine).

Herd immunity through vaccination can't come soon enough for me. I've never felt down for an extended period and I can't take much more of this.

^

Yes, and seeing all the people working at these vaccination clinics and the lines of people getting immunized helps to frame the scale of the issue. For most of us, this has been an invisible enemy only affecting the friend of a friend in any serious way.

I'm so ready for this to be over with. I AM very social and involved with all types of groups, plus I just miss my family. It's taken a big toll on my psyche and my business as well, which is nearing the point of no return. As I've posted before, I've been experiencing something like a low-grade depression since this started.

I'm also incredibly tired of worrying about the lack of caring and compassion of so many in the wider population. The vax will cause a paradigm shift, where all the non-believing selfish a-holes will be the ones at risk, not everyone else (apart from some who can't take the vaccine).

Herd immunity through vaccination can't come soon enough for me. I've never felt down for an extended period and I can't take much more of this.

Should get an OKCTalk meetup organized when things settle down. Late summer evening on a rooftop in downtown with some good drinks - sounds like a different universe. I was thinking the other day how weird it would be to sit elbow to elbow with a complete stranger in a packed bar, how quickly things change...

Should get an OKCTalk meetup organized when things settle down. Late summer evening on a rooftop in downtown with some good drinks - sounds like a different universe. I was thinking the other day how weird it would be to sit elbow to elbow with a complete stranger in a packed bar, how quickly things change...
That sounds like a great idea. Through this past year there's been a lot of serious discussion, agreements and disagreements. Even some down right arguments. But all in all it's been very helpful and interesting. I've learned a lot. I'd like to see some of the faces that I only know as names or handles.

That sounds like a great idea. Through this past year there's been a lot of serious discussion, agreements and disagreements. Even some down right arguments. But all in all it's been very helpful and interesting. I've learned a lot. I'd like to see some of the faces that I only know as names or handles.

if anything it would quell the tensions. People are 10 times better in person than they are on the internet. I know I am a bit more tame (pretty tame in general though)

if anything it would quell the tensions. People are 10 times better in person than they are on the internet. I know I am a bit more tame (pretty tame in general though)True. I'm harsher on a keyboard. And a lot of my posting is in the evening when I tend to hurt more. And have been known to drink a couple to numb it.

Things are looking better here, but we need to be careful not to count our chickens before they hatch. It looks like the national case counts are trending back up after the past few days. Let’s hope this is a short-term plateau.

The emerging research is pretty clear that the vaccines will reduce the ability to transmit by 90% or more. Things are looking very good on that front. And if you're around other vaccinated people then the risk of sickness from reinfection is near zero. Again, you should be excited to be vaccinated and increasingly feel comfortable around other vaccinated people. People should continue being cautious (e.g., you still should wear masks indoors in public places because people don't know you're vaccinated), but it's also important people realize that the vaccines will change our lives. There's a lot of "but actually" going on about variants and people are starting to lose hope that the vaccines won't improve their lives. The scientific news is nearly miraculous. We need to acknowledge that more. See the article I posted for a long explanation on this.

+1. This is one of the greatest achievements in the history of science. It is literally almost unbelievable. So, yeah, there are still some remaining "yeah buts," and we should still take basic precautions, particularly until 70% of the population gets vaccinated, but this is a moment to celebrate. Few would have predicted we would be where we are today. It almost seems like divine intervention.

Things are looking better here, but we need to be careful not to count our chickens before they hatch. It looks like the national case counts are trending back up after the past few days. Let’s hope this is a short-term plateau.


Hopefully it's a dead cat bounce.

True. I'm harsher on a keyboard. And a lot of my posting is in the evening when I tend to hurt more. And have been known to drink a couple to numb it.


Oh Bill, you comport yourself as a perfect gentlemen online. I can't think of a single time I thought, "Man, that guy's a real a--hole."

if anything it would quell the tensions. People are 10 times better in person than they are on the internet. I know I am a bit more tame (pretty tame in general though)

This is true. I think we can all be a bit harsher behind keyboards. I know I can and certainly regret it at times. I went to one of the OKCTalk meet ups and everyone was really friendly.

This is true. I think we can all be a bit harsher behind keyboards. I know I can and certainly regret it at times. I went to one of the OKCTalk meet ups and everyone was really friendly.

I know we are veering off topic. I have been to 2 or 3 and was surprised at how cordial and nice everyone was. Was great to put some faces to names, and it really helps to give some latitude in the online realm. Disagreements don’t always have to be personal and heated. It is kind of a self-fueling fire. Online “they” are more fierce, and you are more fierce. The worst of both people meeting head to head - but in person no problem. Would be nice to get something together sometime. I would love to meet some new people from the site. I think I saw you, Dan, in Hatch but wasn’t sure so didn’t say anything :)

16736
An old friend re-posted this on FB. At first I was going to copy it to here and then rant about what I think of this attitude or philosophy. Instead I'll ask: What do you think?

Given the collective nature of the problem though, refusing is absolutely the correct term. They’re refusing to help us get to herd immunity, refusing to take steps to stop community spread, refusing a free vaccine that would help mitigate the creation of new strains of the disease, refusing to take part in a collective effort to lower stress on our healthcare system. Refusing, and all of the moral weight that comes with it, is absolutely appropriate in this case because they are proactively endangering the larger community with their inaction.

Given the collective nature of the problem though, refusing is absolutely the correct term. They’re refusing to help us get to herd immunity, refusing to take steps to stop community spread, refusing a free vaccine that would help mitigate the creation of new strains of the disease, refusing to take part in a collective effort to lower stress on our healthcare system. Refusing, and all of the moral weight that comes with it, is absolutely appropriate in this case because they are proactively endangering the larger community with their inaction.
This. Very well said.

Refusing, and all of the moral weight that comes with it, is absolutely appropriate in this case because they are proactively endangering the larger community with their inaction.

I also have authoritarian impulses from time to time. It is best that we examine these issues individually. We can have a debate on if verbal force and social pressure should or should not be used on a population to ensure a higher rate of compliance, but politics is not the point of this thread. So, I will drop the subject here.

Communal responsibilities aren't authoritarian. I'm not saying that we need to forcefully inoculate people against their will, but there is absolutely a social responsibility people have to get vaccinated. If folks want to shirk that responsibility they are free to do so, but there is a moral cost to it.

Interesting that they chose to use anti-depressants as an example. Refusing to take your medication gets you a "noncompliant" label in your medical chart with the implication that you're a danger to yourself and others. That's a pretty appropriate description for the anti-vaxxers too.

Interesting that they chose to use anti-depressants as an example. Refusing to take your medication gets you a "noncompliant" label in your medical chart with the implication that you're a danger to yourself and others. That's a pretty appropriate description for the anti-vaxxers too.
True about the anti-depressants. The comparison to marriage is asinine. Declining to wed has no possible effect on anybody but you and your would have been spouse if there was one. Vaccine refusers could have a negative effect on many people.

True about the anti-depressants. The comparison to marriage is asinine. Declining to wed has no possible effect on anybody but you and your would have been spouse if there was one. Vaccine refusers could have a negative effect on many people.

I think your friend's point is that there is social pressure to marry and start a family. How many times have family members and friends asked a young man or women if or when they were getting married. How many times have they asked when they will have children? The social pressure to conform is similar to the social pressure PoliSci advocates above.

I think your friend's point is that there is social pressure to marry and start a family. How many times have family members and friends asked a young man or women if or when they were getting married. How many times have they asked when they will have children? The social pressure to conform is similar to the social pressure PoliSci advocates above.
I just can't put social pressure to marry in the same stratosphere as stopping a pandemic virus.

Only 380 new cases today; 7-day rolling average 719. Today's total is the lowest since last August.

Strangely, deaths are near all-time highs with 50 more reported today. I realize these numbers are delayed (47 were in January) but I'm surprised at the recent daily totals, as the cases and hospitalizations have been down for a couple of months. 7-day rolling average 39.3.


Updated hospitalization data will be released this evening.

I just can't put social pressure to marry in the same stratosphere as stopping a pandemic virus.

I understand. I am just trying to let you see what your friend probably meant by his post. Now that you know how your friend feels about the subject you can proceed to make your judgements and take your actions.

Pressure to conform is as old as society and the reaction to real or perceived pressure is pretty well known and understood. Given your age you should understand this fact better than most of the younger people on this board.

I understand. I am just trying to let you see what your friend probably meant by his post. Now that you know how your friend feels about the subject you can proceed to make your judgements and take your actions.

Pressure to conform is as old as society and the reaction to real or perceived pressure is pretty well known and understood. Given your age you should understand this fact better than most of the younger people on this board.
I think social pressure is a much bigger thing to younger people. People I know of my age didn't give a rats what anyone thought about what we did or said when we were young and as we've aged we care even less.
Now everyone is supposed to walk on eggshells so as to not hurt anyones feelings.

Is there any chart that correctly reports death by actual date of death not the date it was reported?

With the high death counts showing up, I’d be curious to know how far back these occurred or if they are recent. The date of report does nothing for understanding the situation of the day

Only 380 new cases today; 7-day rolling average 719. Today's total is the lowest since last August.

Strangely, deaths are near all-time highs with 50 more reported today. I realize these numbers are delayed (47 were in January) but I'm surprised at the recent daily totals, as the cases and hospitalizations have been down for a couple of months. 7-day rolling average 39.3.


Updated hospitalization data will be released this evening.
Deaths in January and early February would be in the lag window of the earlier very high cases probably caused by the holidays right?

Covidtracking.com has OK as 25th in hospitalizations per 1mil people and tied for 19th for new cases per 100k people. Much better than a few weeks ago.

Covidtracking.com has OK as 25th in hospitalizations per 1mil people and tied for 19th for new cases per 100k people. Much better than a few weeks ago.
Covidtracking.com has these caveats on the Oklahoma numbers.

Data Reporting Assessment (Learn more about data quality assessments)


Some issues exist for state-level metrics

Some issues exist for race and ethnicity data

Some issues exist for long-term care data

Covidtracking.com has these caveats on the Oklahoma numbers.

Data Reporting Assessment (Learn more about data quality assessments)


Some issues exist for state-level metrics

Some issues exist for race and ethnicity data

Some issues exist for long-term care data
Thanks. I missed that. They're going offline in a week or so anyway.
Edit: I just went and checked a number of states on their site. The "Some issues" comments seem to be a standard disclaimer accross the board.

OK, The CDC has us ranked 28 in 7 day average of new cases per 100k so that's even better

It looks like we have about 2k more deaths than reported. Today they said all of the CDC deaths get counted later.

https://twitter.com/KassieMcClung/status/1366490826835116034?s=20

It looks like we have about 2k more deaths than reported. Today they said all of the CDC deaths get counted later.

https://twitter.com/KassieMcClung/status/1366490826835116034?s=20

If you use the CDC number for deaths, Oklahoma would be #15 in deaths per capita due to Covid-19.

We are #8 in infections per capita.