I should know better by now.

Remember, 2 hours ago, when this idiot made this idiotic claim?


When Sunday's numbers are added, we should see the trend line decrease, as the large case count reported last Sunday of 4,507 will roll out of the calculation[/B].
...
...


What an idiot.

Rolling 7 Case avg at time of post: 2,636. Rolling 7 Case Avg. including today's cases: 2,553. A decrease of 3%.

It would be laughable to watch anyone try to enforce another lockdown at this point. After everything that business owners went through back in the spring, there is no way that all of them would comply...especially in the absence of any type of financial program to reimburse them for the massive losses they would incur by being closed through the holidays. This whole situations sucks but another lockdown is not the answer.

I know we're flirting with politics here, but it is also relevant to the thread, in general. Your comment about not having a reimbursement program for a shutdown reminded me of a shower-thought I've long been pondering:

"How will a Biden admin handle states that don't want to comply with Federal mandates to slow Covid spread based on a set of national standards?" My guess:

Next round of stimulus/aid/bailout money will be directly tied to state's compliance with national guidelines on state wide mask orders, restaurant capacity, etc. If a state refuses to pass a mask mandate and has X % of cases per geo region (likely zip code), then I think the stimulus money would be denied or even clawed back from the state. That way the state Exec's will pass their own laws in order to get the federal bucks. Again, not wanting a political debate, I don't care about anybody else's political opinion on this theory. It's just a guess.

However, In general, absent of today's political climate & our own online political tribal badges of honor & political emotional wounds/victories. I do wonder: What options does the Federal gov. have in this scenario? I understand the federal gov is on very shaky legal ground to pass their own federal mask mandate. Do they have other options, legally/procedurally speaking to force states like OK to comply with a mask mandate?

3,923 (!!!) new cases today. 7-day rolling average an incredible 2,553.

12 additional deaths.


We aren't even to the holidays or the colder weather.

Along with the national numbers, this is far worse than anyone predicted.

It would be laughable to watch anyone try to enforce another lockdown at this point. After everything that business owners went through back in the spring, there is no way that all of them would comply...especially in the absence of any type of financial program to reimburse them for the massive losses they would incur by being closed through the holidays. This whole situations sucks but another lockdown is not the answer.

What would you say is the alternative solution here? I agree that we should be doing more to help businesses survive this horrible situation but it seems clear to me that doing absolutely nothing while our hospitals get overrun isn’t exactly the answer either.

Business has always trumped people, this country has operated on that reality for a long time now and it is nothing new. People are secondary, and enterprise is king.

Wow the numbers for today are totally crazy. I hate to think about what it will be like in 2 or 3 weeks. Me, I am restocking after losing refrigerators and freezers of food due to power outage. That is another who stupid deal, no reason why I should have lost that due to an open breaker on a pole OG&E refused to reset until line fixed, then 7 days later,we don't have time to fix the line, we will just reset the breaker. grrrr. thanks OG&E for the huge loss. Bottom line I plan on just staying home and staying safe. If you are retired or can work from home, just stay home. If you are where delievery is an option for take out or groceries then just do it. If you do go out please wear a mask even if you don't think they work or are against them. Do it for others who are worried when someone walks by them in a store without a mask or one covering just their chin. As I said in March, "We are in deep do do". Now am I right ??? Look at these numbers!!!

We can't do any type of lockdown without a huge stimulus package.

And because the idiots in Washington have jacked around, no package will be passed until February at the earliest, which means thousands and thousands of people are going to die this winter and millions will get sick.

People will look back on this time and wonder how things got so incredibly screwed up given all the resources available in this country.

Business has always trumped people, this country has operated on that reality for a long time now and it is nothing new. People are secondary, and enterprise is king.

This statement is ridiculous. How do businesses trump people? Businesses are run by people that have poured their lives into them and are completely dependent on them financially. It’s all about people either way you look at it.

I noticed our relative Rt has really jumped up on that Rt live website. Anybody have any data on what our percentage positive rate is? I would look but don’t have the time at the moment.

What would you say is the alternative solution here? I agree that we should be doing more to help businesses survive this horrible situation but it seems clear to me that doing absolutely nothing while our hospitals get overrun isn’t exactly the answer either.

Honestly no idea but the answer is not another mass shut down.

Honestly no idea but the answer is not another mass shut down.

FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES PROVIDED BY THE WHITE HOUSE TASKFORCE.

The proper course of action isn't and never has been hard to understand.

It's just that many prefer to put partisan politics ahead of the lives and well-being of millions of their fellow Americans.

FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES PROVIDED BY THE WHITE HOUSE TASKFORCE.

The proper course of action isn't and never has been hard to understand.

It's just that many prefer to put partisan politics ahead of the lives and well-being of millions of their fellow Americans.

Agreed.

I noticed our relative Rt has really jumped up on that Rt live website. Anybody have any data on what our percentage positive rate is? I would look but don’t have the time at the moment.Friday's weekly report had 12.7% and 14.7% Johns Hopkins. Not completely sure what the difference is but either is way more than a couple months ago.

This statement is ridiculous. How do businesses trump people? Businesses are run by people that have poured their lives into them and are completely dependent on them financially. It’s all about people either way you look at it.

Your question is the answer you are looking for.

The survival of their business is more important that the survival of people.

If we keep more people alive, some people might go broke. If we keep some business alive, more people will die. It’s up to people to prioritize which one of those they want to survive more.

All of these “a shutdown it going to kill business” arguments also ignore the fact that most of these businesses will be hurt worse by a de-facto shutdown when people aren’t going to utilize these businesses anymore because they are dying.

Agreed.


Your question is the answer you are looking for.

The survival of their business is more important that the survival of people.

If we keep more people alive, some people might go broke. If we keep some business alive, more people will die. It’s up to people to prioritize which one of those they want to survive more.

All of these “a shutdown it going to kill business” arguments also ignore the fact that most of these businesses will be hurt worse by a de-facto shutdown when people aren’t going to utilize these businesses anymore because they are dying.

I’ve been essentially living like the virus doesn’t exist for the last 2 months (other than doing things like not wearing a mask in public places which just makes you an a**hole). By some miracle, despite putting myself in at least 20 large gatherings, one of at least 3500 people in Florida...I haven’t caught it yet (I’ve taken tests before going around family or anyone with an elevated risk so I know I definitely haven’t). My point in saying that is that you live in a bubble if you think any “defacto” shut down is going to happen. Most of the OK population under 40 has resumed a relatively normal activity level and that isn’t going to change no matter what numbers are released (which most younger people are completely ignoring now). At least in Tulsa, the bars and restaurants are completely packed Thursday through Saturday night. There is very little to no threat of serious illness or lingering effects for people under 40, and even lower the farther down you go in age. Out of the 50-80 people i know that have had it...it’s been a bad head cold for 3 days and nothing at all afterward (or no symptoms whatsoever). The one exception was a person over 65 that had a heart condition and caught it before the initial shutdowns. That doesn’t instill the fear it would take to cause people not to go on about their lives as they usually would. Right or wrong, it is what it is. I just hope everyone wears a mask and exercises caution around the elderly and those with an elevated risk.

Where is a COVID 19 saliva test available in the OKC metro area? Having trouble finding it online.

It would be laughable to watch anyone try to enforce another lockdown at this point. After everything that business owners went through back in the spring, there is no way that all of them would comply...especially in the absence of any type of financial program to reimburse them for the massive losses they would incur by being closed through the holidays. This whole situations sucks but another lockdown is not the answer.

Yes, I agree that it won't happen. This isn't the country anymore where people make sacrifices or generally care for others. Can you imagine this country making the sacrifices Americans made during WWII? Lol. People would just complain that they were oppressed.

I actually think well planned and executed lockdowns can be good for businesses. They can provide clarity to the public, get things under control, and allow for businesses to plan too. Also, it's not like lockdowns shut down all businesses. Of course, this country has no leadership or plan so it's kind of hard to even imagine lockdowns being well planned.

Again, we just had a post basically saying the virus doesn't matter while people are literally in the hospital dying right now primarily because of people under 65 infecting their elders.

And, Oklahoma is getting dangerously close to people dying unnecessarily because there are not enough health care workers to care for them. Try imagining a loved one dying because they can't get care. It's getting close...

It would be laughable to watch anyone try to enforce another lockdown at this point. After everything that business owners went through back in the spring, there is no way that all of them would comply...especially in the absence of any type of financial program to reimburse them for the massive losses they would incur by being closed through the holidays. This whole situations sucks but another lockdown is not the answer.

For me, this will be a shutdown. We had started getting takeout. I visited a bar and sat on a patio. We were forced into a hotel after 13 days without power. So, to a degree, our lives had become more public.

Now, there will be no holiday gatherings for my family. No more backyard hangouts with friends. And, I will most certainly not be patronizing any food establishments for dine-in or takeout. All food will be prepared at home and 90% will be delivered.

Back to quarantine through February at least. After this many months, a few more don't seem too hard. Thank GOD we have new leadership coming that will address this situation as it should have been from the beginning. Also, I'm hopeful about the vaccine.

So, whether or not the governor does a shutdown (we all know he isn't going to do jack****), there will still be an effective shutdown that will affect small businesses. It sucks, but keeping things "open" isn't really helping these businesses when at least half of the public realizes they are playing Russian roulette every time they leave their homes.

Also, can we acknowledge the obvious? This spike started around Labor Day, approximately 2 weeks after schools reopened. Some districts like OKC and Tulsa did not reopen to in-person learning, and it appears that if they do so, it is on the distant horizon. But many suburban and most rural districts did open, and a third of them didn't even require masks in the schools once they did reopen. This spike is the result of reopening schools, just as most of us here predicted would happen. Scientists said it would happen. People with common sense and basic reading comprehension skills knew this would happen. It's happening and it's no surprise whatsoever and has nothing to do with weather.

The commissioner for Oklahoma's state health department stood up at a microphone yesterday and said that creating a state mask mandate would make people less likely to wear masks. Of course, he had anecdotal evidence from five people he knows to make such a grandiosely freaking stupid comment. This is BS on its face. Just look at OKC: once the toothless mandate was passed by Council mask usage went up immediately and dramatically. Fry is completely, 100% off base.

The rural and exurban Vox populi of this state is retrograde stupid.

We've never left how we did things through the "shut down". So if there's another it's business as usual for us either way. I haven't been anywhere but work where I can avoid everyone anyway and minimal shopping masked and sanitized to the point of paranoia.

Scary thing right now is for the last couple days I've had exactly the same symptoms (minor again thank God) as I had in late March. At least I was already taking vacation last week and if I do go to work this week there's virtually no one there because someone tested positive and we're on a skeleton crew (5 out of 50 people) for two weeks. And my office is off by itself so I can be there and never see anyone.

Odd thing is I've been ANAL about mask wearing. And I have N95 masks. I'm washing my hands and hand sanitizing so much I probably would test positive for those ingredients in urine samples. How could I have caught anything COVID or otherwise?

We've never left how we did things through the "shut down". So if there's another it's business as usual for us either way. I haven't been anywhere but work where I can avoid everyone anyway and minimal shopping masked and sanitized to the point of paranoia.

Scary thing right now is for the last couple days I've had exactly the same symptoms (minor again thank God) as I had in late March. At least I was already taking vacation last week and if I do go to work this week there's virtually no one there because someone tested positive and we're on a skeleton crew (5 out of 50 people) for two weeks. And my office is off by itself so I can be there and never see anyone.

Odd thing is I've been ANAL about mask wearing. And I have N95 masks. I'm washing my hands and hand sanitizing so much I probably would test positive for those ingredients in urine samples. How could I have caught anything COVID or otherwise?

Do you think your symptoms are more allergy related? The winds have been awful as of late with wild temperature swings. Went hiking yesterday and am feeling crummy today. Definitely allergy related for me?

Also, can we acknowledge the obvious? This spike started around Labor Day, approximately 2 weeks after schools reopened. Some districts like OKC and Tulsa did not reopen to in-person learning, and it appears that if they do so, it is on the distant horizon. But many suburban and most rural districts did open, and a third of them didn't even require masks in the schools once they did reopen. This spike is the result of reopening schools, just as most of us here predicted would happen. Scientists said it would happen. People with common sense and basic reading comprehension skills knew this would happen. It's happening and it's no surprise whatsoever and has nothing to do with weather.

The commissioner for Oklahoma's state health department stood up at a microphone yesterday and said that creating a state mask mandate would make people less likely to wear masks. Of course, he had anecdotal evidence from five people he knows to make such a grandiosely freaking stupid comment. This is BS on its face. Just look at OKC: once the toothless mandate was passed by Council mask usage went up immediately and dramatically. Fry is completely, 100% off base.

The rural and exurban Vox populi of this state is retrograde stupid.

I’m sure schools are contributing some to the spread, but I seriously doubt they are the primary reason. Do you have an evidence to support your claim? Instead of blaming kids for this spread, let’s just step back and look at what’s really happening.

Currently, the fastest rate of spread in Oklahoma is in the rule counties. These locations do not, or rarely, have mask mandates. Life in these parts of the state has been normal for the most part. Like most things in life, it just took a little while for covid to take a foothold. We’re finally seeing uncontrolled community spread taking a toll in these areas.

Masks and responsible social distancing, or lack thereof, is the culprit here. Not the schools. Bars, restaurants, churches, colleges, and other large indoor gatherings (of irresponsible adults) is the culprit for this now rapid uncontrollable community spread.

Do you think your symptoms are more allergy related? The winds have been awful as of late with wild temperature swings. Went hiking yesterday and am feeling crummy today. Definitely allergy related for me?I've had allergies forever and never had a temperature with them. Plus the diarrhea, feeling like something is pressing on my chest trying to keep me from breathing, really dry/sore throat and headache when my nose/sinuses are perfectly clear doesn't fit allergies. Also waves of nausea, sweating and weakness/fatigue when I'm not doing anything physical. Identical symptoms to March and again all minor just like in March but a little bit worse this time. Not a lot worse but enough to notice. And I'm convinced by multiple positive antibody tests that I had it in March.

Not sure if this is considered political, but what can we do to urge Stitt to do something other than introducing new colors for the map?

I've had allergies forever and never had a temperature with them. Plus the diarrhea, feeling like something is pressing on my chest trying to keep me from breathing, really dry/sore throat and headache when my nose/sinuses are perfectly clear doesn't fit allergies. Also waves of nausea, sweating and weakness/fatigue when I'm not doing anything physical. Identical symptoms to March and again all minor just like in March but a little bit worse this time. Not a lot worse but enough to notice. And I'm convinced by multiple positive antibody tests that I had it in March.

Yeah...that’s definitely not allergies. Go get you a quick test at a cvs. I hope that it’s not covid. Maybe a stomach bug and anxiety? Sorry to hear that though. I hope you can push through ok!!

Yeah...that’s definitely not allergies. Go get you a quick test at a cvs. I hope that it’s not covid. Maybe a stomach bug and anxiety? Sorry to hear that though. I hope you can push through ok!!I got on CVS's website to schedule a test and didn't do it. I'm already isolated so what would it accomplish but add me as a number. I don't know what I could do differently if I tested positive. If this is as bad as the symptoms get for me then I'm good. I'm isolated already and so I'm not risking giving it to anyone else. I'll donate blood in a few weeks and if I test positive for antibodies then I did have it again and I'll donate plasma again until my antibodies drop off.

I’ve been essentially living like the virus doesn’t exist for the last 2 months (other than doing things like not wearing a mask in public places which just makes you an a**hole). By some miracle, despite putting myself in at least 20 large gatherings, one of at least 3500 people in Florida...I haven’t caught it yet (I’ve taken tests before going around family or anyone with an elevated risk so I know I definitely haven’t). My point in saying that is that you live in a bubble if you think any “defacto” shut down is going to happen. Most of the OK population under 40 has resumed a relatively normal activity level and that isn’t going to change no matter what numbers are released (which most younger people are completely ignoring now). At least in Tulsa, the bars and restaurants are completely packed Thursday through Saturday night. There is very little to no threat of serious illness or lingering effects for people under 40, and even lower the farther down you go in age. Out of the 50-80 people i know that have had it...it’s been a bad head cold for 3 days and nothing at all afterward (or no symptoms whatsoever). The one exception was a person over 65 that had a heart condition and caught it before the initial shutdowns. That doesn’t instill the fear it would take to cause people not to go on about their lives as they usually would. Right or wrong, it is what it is. I just hope everyone wears a mask and exercises caution around the elderly and those with an elevated risk.

This guy looks under 40, and he got very sick. Who wants to risk being a rare exception? Stories like his need to get out more than ever before: https://www.ocolly.com/news/my-experience-with-covid-19/article_90771cf6-dce9-11ea-8258-fbfc393744ed.html

As he puts it: "After going through hell for weeks, I am finally negative for the virus, but that doesn’t mean the long term effects are done. Each and every day I see people brushing off this virus and the severity of it and that can be frustrating from someone who has went through it or seen someone they love taken by it."

Long COVID is something that is rarely discussed, but is ruining the lives of survivors. For the millionth time, just surviving doesn’t mean your life isn’t destroyed. The impacts of COVID are wide and deep.

Moderna this morning claimed their vaccine has an effective rate of 94%. My initial skepticism on when these vaccines would be ready is becoming guarded optimism.
That being said the population still needs to take precautions and continue with mask wearing, social distancing, and avoiding risky situations such as bars, indoor dining that is packed, and similar venues.

This guy looks under 40, and he got very sick. Who wants to risk being a rare exception? Stories like his need to get out more than ever before: https://www.ocolly.com/news/my-experience-with-covid-19/article_90771cf6-dce9-11ea-8258-fbfc393744ed.html

As he puts it: "After going through hell for weeks, I am finally negative for the virus, but that doesn’t mean the long term effects are done. Each and every day I see people brushing off this virus and the severity of it and that can be frustrating from someone who has went through it or seen someone they love taken by it."

of course you can find someone under 40 that got very very sick ... . that doesn't change the math ....

I just would like to know what to when my company has given us all the things to successfully do our jobs at home, yet is requiring people to return to the office just to have butts in seats... Oh, I mean to help keep our corporate culture together...

I just would like to know what to when my company has given us all the things to successfully do our jobs at home, yet is requiring people to return to the office just to have butts in seats... Oh, I mean to help keep our corporate culture together...
There are a lot of companies that proved working from home was just fine but made employees come back to the building when we "reopened". It's just one more thing I don't get.

Governor having another COVID19 press conference at noon today. Streaming on KOCO if you want to watch. I have a feeling the numbers might be pretty bad at 11am.

Honestly no idea but the answer is not another mass shut down.

it is if people don't start following guidelines and wearing a dang mask

There are a lot of companies that proved working from home was just fine but made employees come back to the building when we "reopened". It's just one more thing I don't get.

Hell, OKCPS is guilty of this.

What was too dangerous for employees to report to work, was suddenly safe, three weeks later. And this was as the Covid alert level was rising and the numbers were spiking. I don't get it, either.

Governor having another COVID19 press conference at noon today. Streaming on KOCO if you want to watch. I have a feeling the numbers might be pretty bad at 11am.

Is there anything to suggest that Stitt will acknowledge the reality of the current situation? My money is on he will stress "personal responsibility" as opposed to showing any leadership as the Governor.

I just would like to know what to when my company has given us all the things to successfully do our jobs at home, yet is requiring people to return to the office just to have butts in seats... Oh, I mean to help keep our corporate culture together...

Some of it is an aversion to moving away from the typical 8-5 Butts in the Seats corporate culture and some of it is just that some employers don't always trust that their employees are always working when they're at home so they want to be able to keep close tabs on them. Personally, I feel like it shouldn't be an issue as long as people are getting their work done.

There are a lot of companies that proved working from home was just fine but made employees come back to the building when we "reopened". It's just one more thing I don't get.

I'm really lucky in that my company quickly realized how effective and productive working from home has been, and has been discussing making a lot of our changes permanent. They want folks to remain local so that they will be able to come into the office a few times a year (once all this is over) but otherwise they are embracing a new paradigm.

Makes me wonder how much the office space market is going to be affected by companies deciding they just don't need as much.

2,729 new cases today. 7-day rolling average now a record 2,629.

10 additional deaths.


New hospital data will not be out until tonight.

Some of it is an aversion to moving away from the typical 8-5 Butts in the Seats corporate culture and some of it is just that some employers don't always trust that their employees are always working when they're at home so they want to be able to keep close tabs on them. Personally, I feel like it shouldn't be an issue as long as people are getting their work done.An effective management system should have measurables in place that will monitor if the work is being done. If not then management needs to be re-evaluated.

I'm really lucky in that my company quickly realized how effective and productive working from home has been, and has been discussing making a lot of our changes permanent. They want folks to remain local so that they will be able to come into the office a few times a year (once all this is over) but otherwise they are embracing a new paradigm.

Are there income tax benefits to working at home?

Are there income tax benefits to working at home?

According to my tax lawyer? Not any longer, unless you're self employed.

Are there income tax benefits to working at home?
There used to be. When I was doing a lot of electrical side work I was deducting some for using a bedroom as a home office. That was years ago so I don't know about now.

I just would like to know what to when my company has given us all the things to successfully do our jobs at home, yet is requiring people to return to the office just to have butts in seats... Oh, I mean to help keep our corporate culture together...

My company has a list of high risk people who are working from home until the vaccine is widely available. Of course it helps to have FMLA already approved, but they really would accept a doctors recommendation. I sort of wonder if it's a liability issue, so companies are making accommodations.

of course you can find someone under 40 that got very very sick ... . that doesn't change the math ....

Why risk getting covid-19 at any age?

My company has a list of high risk people who are working from home until the vaccine is widely available. Of course it helps to have FMLA already approved, but they really would accept a doctors recommendation. I sort of wonder if it's a liability issue, so companies are making accommodations.
Another contractor that's on site here seems to have three lists of their employees. Some started working from home in March and still are, some are back here part time and home part time and the third has been back full time except for the past week when we're all but shut down.

Why risk getting covid-19 at any age?

Yes. There are just so many things we could easily do without for awhile that should make this go away faster. The faster we can get rid of this virus the faster EVERYTHING can be normal again.

Why risk getting covid-19 at any age?

why take any risk ever??

there are hundreds of things 20 year olds do on a weekly basis more risky then covid ..

why take any risk ever??

there are hundreds of things 20 year olds do on a weekly basis more risky then covid ..
The part you seem too ignorant to grasp is that there are a lot of risks that can be taken by 20 year olds that don't also put me and mine at risk.

The part you seem too ignorant to grasp is that there are a lot of risks that can be taken by 20 year olds that don't also put me and mine at risk.

you should take the risk you are comfortable with ... ruining businesses and the economy should be a non starter ..

the CDC says 480,000 deaths are caused by smoking a year in the USA ... ....

you should take the risk you are comfortable with ... ruining businesses and the economy should be a non starter ..

the CDC says 480,000 deaths are caused by smoking a year in the USA ... ....
That is something else that should be stopped. Not a reason to minimize COVID.

Stitt speaking now...

Beginning Thursday:

Restaurants must ensure all tables are 6 feet apart or have dividers
All bars and restaurants must close at 11PM (drive-thrus excepted)

Also said they want all kids back in school by the end of the Christmas break.

Also, all state employees must wear a mask in common areas and when around co-workers.

That's it.

That's all Stitt is going to do to combat the crazy spike in the state.

So basically nothing still.

you should take the risk you are comfortable with ... ruining businesses and the economy should be a non starter ..

the CDC says 480,000 deaths are caused by smoking a year in the USA ... ....

yes, and look at at the limits on smoking that exist in law... and no one is claiming that it is a violation of freedoms. restaurants are allowed to kick you out if they are non-smoking, you can't smoke in almost any public building, many parks have banned smoking.

i agree that we shouldn't shut down again unless we absolutely have to... so get people to wear masks and accept that rules to limit spread aren't just there to take away freedoms, and we won't have to shut down again.

Since I still think we need a positive note now and then. I woke up about 2AM and was wide awake. TV was already on ESPN and it was the ACC Women's Soccer Championship game. Everyone I saw that wasn't actively on the field playing was wearing a mask properly. Even the very few people in the stands. At least someone gets it.

We're rearranging deck chairs, or I guess restaurant tables, on the Titanic. Good grief. Can't wait to vote this dude out of office.