By the way, really good article on why the you-don't-need-masks, only-medical-professionals-need-masks message was totally wrong. I fell for it and repeated it and it was the wrong message: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html

HUH Dental Depot in Yukon has been open my friend went yesterday and today.

They just made a recommendation and not a mandate. They aren’t a regulating board. The board of dentistry recommended to follow the ODA/ADA recommendations. I think they are trying to avoid legal issues.

So you will see some offices open. IMO all offices should be closed and only open to true dental emergencies. I am on call for my patients, but my office is closed until April 6 (at least). The governor of Washington just mandated all dental offices to remain closed except for emergencies until May 18th.

The problem is this virus can be suspended in air by dental instruments. It’s hard to prescreen patients because they can be asymptomatic carriers. Dental professionals are at great risk of contracting the virus without taking airborne precautions. In addition, hospitals desperately need masks and proper PPE. We should be closed to alleviate the strain on hospitals. I will see true emergencies only to help those patients that would otherwise go to the ER putting additional strain on hospitals. Closing my office was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do and I am trying to help my employees as long as I can, but it’s also the right thing to do IMO. Tough times.

So when I see people not social distancing, it can be extremely frustrating. People are losing their business, their livelihoods and if we all don’t do this now and all together, it won’t work. We will slowly bleed out. IMO we need to shutdown everything. Rip the bandaid off to help stop the spread and flatten the curve. This would help businesses as well imo.

DISTANCE IS THE DIFFERENCE! DISTANCE. How is this so hard to understand? I have been carrying out/ordering out for days and haven't even come within 10 feet of a person in the last 5 days besides my wife. We don't even do a hand off. I ask them to set it down and then I come and pick it up. In a restaurant I would always be close to people in a closed environment. It's not comparable.

How do we reconcile grocery shopping? They are now and will stay packed every day.

How do we reconcile grocery shopping? They are now and will stay packed every day.

Need to limit how many people can go into the store at one time. Maybe let people sign up online and get a timeslot. Place markers at the checkout lines to ensure that people are standing six feet apart. I'm sure there are other ideas that I am not thinking of, but I do agree with your point, there are too many people in grocery stores at the same time right now.

Also, this is entirely my opinion, but now is the time to be ordering groceries online, if you're able. Going grocery shopping is unironically one of my favorite things to do in normal times, but I'm ordering everything off of Amazon for now. Our hospitals are likely about to be overwhelmed and you really want to limit your exposure to that as much as possible. If you're out and about right now, get infected, and that infection results in you needing to go to a hospital two weeks from now, that is not going to be a good situation, so take whatever steps you can to prevent it. Obviously nothing is going to be perfect, there are still going to be people handling my grocery order at different steps in the supply chain, but it's just about minimizing risk.

WOW WOW WOW. Moved here 8 years ago didn't realize how Dumb this state was until now. At someone point we are going to get to the point where everything will have to close. So why not just do it now and hope 2 weeks things are better and have more test. The longer we wait to close everything the long we will have to be closed. Would you rather be closed for 2 weeks or 1-2 months.

Neither time period is guaranteed and not every business is geared solely for takeout food. Either way, closing the dining room severely damages the ability for the restaurant to ever open again. The COVID rate in OK isnt as high as other places so it may not be a necessity to resort to this action. But, while it may be in OKC, it may not be in Ft. Gibson or Woodward.

Its not being dumb or stupid. Oklahoma isnt just Tulsa and OKC. Imposing statewide measures may kill off hundreds of small town businesses completely unnecessarily.

How do we reconcile grocery shopping? They are now and will stay packed every day.

Went today and Uptown in The Village and Homeland south of it were not packed at all, we were the only ones in our checkout line at Uptown and did self checkout at Homeland (they really need to get rid of the "item not bagged" crap, I thought everybody had done away with that) and were the only ones at that register. Only about 2-3 people per aisle at Uptown and 3-4 at Homeland.

How do we reconcile grocery shopping? They are now and will stay packed every day.

I have done this too without human contact: we order groceries (which are left at our door) or pick them (put in our backseat of our car). I followed the experts reports so I picked up some supplies 4 weeks ago to spread out the demand. So, we haven't had to pick up too much recently.

You do your best. Go at off peak hours if you have to go in a store. Honor and encourage social distancing in lines by spreading out.

DISTANCE IS THE DIFFERENCE! DISTANCE. How is this so hard to understand? I have been carrying out/ordering out for days and haven't even come within 10 feet of a person in the last 5 days besides my wife. We don't even do a hand off. I ask them to set it down and then I come and pick it up. In a restaurant I would always be close to people in a closed environment. It's not comparable.

^^^^

So 11 million dead is a worthwhile price to pay to save the economy while we wait 18 months for (hopefully) a vaccine? You might feel that way until the victims are people you love. I don’t see any easy answers here.

for one if everyone in the cournty got infected there would not be 11million dead ...

but lets say that is the correct number ...

in 90 days from today with the same economic activity we have currently this entire courntry will be in Martial law and unemployment will top 50%

it would go down hill from there ...

and that would cause far far more than 11 mil deaths ...


the potential economic disaster could be far far worse than the great depression ..

And then we have hotels posting this like the Midwest City Sheraton on Facebook...


Do you have cabin fever? Our hotel is complementary for your pet as well! Our swimming pool is ready to go for you and your kiddos! We are cleaning every hour on the hour for your safety! #OklahomaStrong #MidwestCity

Yes, let's get people to pack into a hotel and into the pool. That'll slow the spread....

As a healthcare provider I can tell you there are epidemiological projections with 11 million deaths. That’s obviously the high end, but we’re just supposed to shrug it off? It’s not only old people who are dying. Think there won’t be chaos with people lying dead in their homes and no mortuaries willing to pick them up for fear of contagion? If medical doctors can’t even get proper supplies to take care of living patients, who thinks those who care for the dead will get them? We’ve become complacent, and for profit medicine is all about functioning with the least expenditure required to treat enough people adequately to keep the masses happy. So, we have the least number of hospital beds, ventilators, protective gear necessary to eke through a bad flu season. If Italy is any example, and it should be, we’re about to pay the price.

I can guarantee you the psychological and economic fallout of failing to try to contain this virus as much as possible will be grim as well. There is no right answer, because we’ve never had anything like this happen since the 1918 flu pandemic. If you look at experiences there, the states which took the least precautions and did the least social distancing were hit the hardest.

If we buy time by trying to flatten the curve, we’ll find treatments that help, we’ll have time to jury rig hospital beds and protective gear for doctors, to 3D print equipment and build ventilators, we have time to test vaccines. There will be jobs in construction, manufacturing, the pharmaceutical industry. People will still need food and let’s not forget the most important thing of all - toilet paper��. We will likely have a societal paradigm shift.

People are going to need to think creatively because, with globalization and climate change, crises are going to become far more common.

for one if everyone in the cournty got infected there would not be 11million dead ...

but lets say that is the correct number ...

in 90 days from today with the same economic activity we have currently this entire courntry will be in Martial law and unemployment will top 50%

it would go down hill from there ...

and that would cause far far more than 11 mil deaths ...


the potential economic disaster could be far far worse than the great depression ..

Aside from your economic modeling... do you have any sources who've actually modeled this economic impact? I'd be interested to learn about that side. We've seen a lot of mortality/health modeling, but I haven't seen much economic content yet.

But, again, I do appreciate how you, post-after-post, so nonchalantly dismiss the deaths of millions of people in your economic calculations.

Yes, we should consider the economy, but not everyone has been willing to concede massive numbers of (many unnecessary) deaths because our health systems are overwhelmed. The short term efforts of closing businesses is intended to buy us time so we don't get hit all at once, which would be devastating. The question isn't economy or health? We need to figure out viable ways forward.

Aside from your economic modeling... do you have any sources who've actually modeled this economic impact? I'd be interested to learn about that side. We've seen a lot of mortality/health modeling, but I haven't seen much economic content yet.

But, again, I do appreciate how you, post-after-post, so nonchalantly dismiss the deaths of millions of people in your economic calculations.

Yes, we should consider the economy, but not everyone has been willing to concede massive numbers of (many unnecessary) deaths because our health systems are overwhelmed. The short term efforts of closing businesses is intended to buy us time so we don't get hit all at once, which would be devastating. The question isn't economy or health? We need to figure out viable ways forward.

no one is talking about it because they don't want large scale panic ...

the "experts" now say close to 100 mil will be infected in this country no matter what we do ...

Just think, if China had not been ridiculously corrupt and tried to hide this for a while, we could have slowed this thing before it got to this point.

I must say I do fear martial law under our incompetent, unethical leadership, but as a healthcare provider I can tell you there are epidemiological projections with 11 million deaths. That’s obviously the high end, but we’re just supposed to shrug it off? It’s not only old people who are dying. Think there won’t be chaos with people lying dead in their homes and no mortuaries willing to pick them up for fear of contagion? If medical doctors can’t even get proper supplies to take care of living patients, who thinks those who care for the dead will get them? We’ve become complacent, and for profit medicine is all about functioning with the least expenditure required to treat enough people adequately to keep the masses happy. So, we have the least number of hospital beds, ventilators, protective gear necessary to eke through a bad flu season. If Italy is any example, and it should be, we’re about to pay the price.

I can guarantee you the psychological and economic fallout of failing to try to contain this virus as much as possible will be grim as well. There is no right answer, because we’ve never had anything like this happen since the 1918 flu pandemic. If you look at experiences there, the states which took the least precautions and did the least social distancing were hit the hardest.

If we buy time by trying to flatten the curve, we’ll find treatments that help, we’ll have time to jury rig hospital beds and protective gear for doctors, to 3D print equipment and build ventilators, we have time to test vaccines. There will be jobs in construction, manufacturing, the pharmaceutical industry. People will still need food and let’s not forget the most important thing of all - toilet paper��. We will likely have a societal paradigm shift.

People are going to need to think creatively because, with globalization and climate change, crises are going to become far more common.

Betts, thank you to you, your husband, and your sister in law for everything you are doing to keep our patient population safe. Your words and your work carry weight.

Just think, if China had not been ridiculously corrupt and tried to hide this for a while, we could have slowed this thing before it got to this point.

Don't forget that our federal government slow played this too... not the same cover up as China, of course. We could have slowed spread in this country much earlier. Experts were saying to take the steps we're taking now three weeks ago.

Don't forget that our federal government slow played this too... not the same cover up as China, of course. We could have slowed spread in this country much earlier. Experts were saying to take the steps we're taking now three weeks ago.

the Federal gov restricted travel from china and put returning americans into mandatory 14 day quarantine on Jan 31st

the Federal gov restricted travel from china and put returning americans into mandatory 14 day quarantine on Jan 31st

Right, which goes to show you how inexcusable it was to downplay the event after that. Thanks for making that point.

Right, which goes to show you how inexcusable it was to downplay the event after that. Thanks for making that point.

that was also public knowledge

Just think, if China had not been ridiculously corrupt and tried to hide this for a while, we could have slowed this thing before it got to this point.
Infuriating. They should face consequences.

CDC updated info

The CDC's worst-case-scenario is that up to 210 million Americans will be infected by December. Under this forecast, 21 million people would need hospitalization and 200,000 to 1.7 million could die. Collins said that if the U.S. takes drastic measures "we should certainly be able to blunt" the curve. "But let's be clear: There's going to be a very rough road."

^^^
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been seeing these estimates for weeks. Is the CDC just now posting them?

^^^
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been seeing these estimates for weeks. Is the CDC just now posting them?

i think last week they were saying 97+ mil infected ..

Updated #'s:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona032020a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona032020b.jpg

Thanks, Pete.

Wish something could be done to make employers who have employees who can fully do their jobs remotely go ahead and let their employees work remotely. Okc seems to still be buzzing along at some employers as if nothing is happening around us

Wish something could be done to make employers who have employees who can fully do their jobs remotely go ahead and let their employees work remotely. Okc seems to still be buzzing along at some employers as if nothing is happening around us

I've given my staff the option to stay home. We are pretty spaced out and there aren't a lot of us, so I've also given them the option to come into the office, because there are somethings we can only do from here.

But traffic around town seems unchanged. It doesn't seem to me that many have changed much at all.

But traffic around town seems unchanged. It doesn't seem to me that many have changed much at all.

Traffic has changed significantly.... My normal 45 minute from Moore to downtown OKC commute is now 15 minutes.

Traffic has changed significantly.... My normal 45 minute from Moore to downtown OKC commute is now 15 minutes.

Good to know. My commute is very short so I only see the surface streets.

I'm sure lots of employers are still trying to adapt. You can't just snap your fingers and have people be able to work from home. If nothing else, most are not set up for remote access to their servers and not many are operating purely in the cloud.

Good to know. My commute is very short so I only see the surface streets.

I'm sure lots of employers are still trying to adapt. You can't just snap your fingers and have people be able to work from home. If nothing else, most are not set up for remote access to their servers and not many are operating purely in the cloud.

Even the traffic on Main Street in front of my office is now a few cars a minute most of the day instead of the non-stop flow on a normal day.

Our office is non-mandatory work from home if we choose too... Most of us are riding it out in the office but we all have our own offices and plenty of separation.

My office faces NW 36th at Shartel, and I'm watching tons of traffic go by.

I haven't really noticed a difference.

My commute has been night and day different. I'm not sure if it's Spring Break or people working from home. Either way, it's been much better.

My office faces NW 36th at Shartel, and I'm watching tons of traffic go by.

I haven't really noticed a difference.

My guess would be that's a more residential area. So people are going out in search of toilet paper. ;)

I started noticing traffic lessening on the west side of downtown late last week.

Traffic on the west side of town has seemed to be less this week, but for some reason today it almost seems back to normal.

Traffic on the west side of town has seemed to be less this week, but for some reason today it almost seems back to normal.

I've seen people on social media posting rumors that a shelter at home order will be made Sunday.... That may be triggering more panic and sending people out to get groceries/medications even though travelling to those places should not be restricted by a shelter at home order.

The number of cases in Oklahoma (49) is still quite low.

We are in unchartered waters, but it's still hard to imagine a shelter at home order for OKC/Oklahoma coming this weekend.

The number of cases in Oklahoma (49) is still quite low.

We are in unchartered waters, but it's still hard to imagine a shelter at home order for OKC/Oklahoma coming this weekend.

I agree but we're talking about rumors on social media.... They spread faster than the coronavirus ever will and do more damage.

But there is no scenario where people won't be allowed to go to grocery stores.

Of course, we've already seen the complete irrationality of the general public in this situation.

I've seen people on social media posting rumors that a shelter at home order will be made Sunday.... That may be triggering more panic and sending people out to get groceries/medications even though travelling to those places should not be restricted by a shelter at home order.

Who are these “people”? Is this just regular folks or insiders?

Who are these “people”? Is this just regular folks or insiders?

Just idiots with keyboards is my guess but all it takes is one idiot and one keyboard to reach millions of people already in a panic.

Just idiots with keyboards is my guess but all it takes is one idiot and one keyboard to reach millions of people already in a panic.

I know someone in the media that was called into a meeting regarding scheduling for next week's possible lockdown. *They may know something or may be reacting to rumors too.

Traffic has changed significantly.... My normal 45 minute from Moore to downtown OKC commute is now 15 minutes.If you can, go to google maps and look at traffic data in Los Angeles. Zero traffic. Even at rush hour not a single back up anywhere. I was on the 405 yesterday going through the pass and not a single heading NB in my sight. It was surreal.

I know someone in the media that was called into a meeting regarding scheduling for next week's possible lockdown. *They may know something or may be reacting to rumors too.

The people I've seen posting it have said almost the exact same thing.... They know someone

If you can, go to google maps and look at traffic data in Los Angeles. Zero traffic. Even at rush hour not a single back up anywhere. I was on the 405 yesterday going through the pass and not a single heading NB in my sight. It was surreal.

I was just looking at local traffic... Very few slow downs in the normal congestion areas here.

traffic has been a dream all week... i headed into the office around 8am this morning starting from sw 119th & i-44 and there was barely any traffic at all.

traffic has been a dream all week... i headed into the office around 8am this morning starting from sw 119th & i-44 and there was barely any traffic at all.

Yeah... I've not had to park on I-35 once this week and I normally avoid I-35 at all costs and just cut down Shields.

The people I've seen posting it have said almost the exact same thing.... They know someone
I'll just put these here as they seem appropriate.


https://www.nbcrightnow.com/check-it-out/fake-viral-text-message-spreads-rumors-saying-martial-law-is/article_fa4e1c04-696e-11ea-a5dd-7f4e0e9bc610.html
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-18/coronavirus-martial-law-email-message-hoax

I'll just put these here as they seem appropriate.


https://www.nbcrightnow.com/check-it-out/fake-viral-text-message-spreads-rumors-saying-martial-law-is/article_fa4e1c04-696e-11ea-a5dd-7f4e0e9bc610.html
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-18/coronavirus-martial-law-email-message-hoax

Man, I hope so..... Otherwise I gotta run to the office and completely load up the car.

The number of cases in Oklahoma (49) is still quite low.

We are in unchartered waters, but it's still hard to imagine a shelter at home order for OKC/Oklahoma coming this weekend.

Low numbers cause of the total number a test. Like I have said before test 2,000 people in the metro this weekend that are showing just mild symptoms and see what the number is.

Low numbers cause of the total number a test. Like I have said before test 2,000 people in the metro this weekend that are showing just mild symptoms and see what the number is.

Right, but they have tested a bunch more and the number of confirmed cases is not going up by much.

We need to be careful, just saying we are nowhere near the numbers of the cities that under stay-at-home mandates.

Is there a timeline out there showing an average for Point of Infection to Chronic Symptoms (hospitalization) or Death?

I'd really like to know this. I think this would be one of the best ways to estimate the impact on an area.

If we know the virus has been here since, say, mid January and it takes 30 days for chronic systems to develop, then to me that would indicate it's not as bad as the media has led us to believe. If however it take 90 days, then the sh*t may really be getting ready to hit the fan.

Or, maybe I'm just looking at this all wrong.

Is there a timeline out there showing an average for Point of Infection to Chronic Symptoms (hospitalization) or Death?

Incubation is 2 weeks; after exposure, if you don't have symptoms in that timeframe you aren't going to get sick and you no longer are contagious. This is why people self-quarantine for that period.

I would think that like with any illness, you will know pretty quickly if your symptoms are serious or not.

Is there a timeline out there showing an average for Point of Infection to Chronic Symptoms (hospitalization) or Death?

I'd really like to know this. I think this would be one of the best ways to estimate the impact on an area.

If we know the virus has been here since, say, mid January and it takes 30 days for chronic systems to develop, then to me that would indicate it's not as bad as the media has led us to believe. If however it take 90 days, then the sh*t may really be getting ready to hit the fan.

Or, maybe I'm just looking at this all wrong.

This site has all the stats too:

COVID-19 Incubation Period
The incubation period (time from exposure to the development of symptoms) of the virus is estimated to be between 2 and 14 days based on the following sources:

The World Health Organization (WHO) reported an incubation period for COVID-19 between 2 and 10 days. [1]
China’s National Health Commission (NHC) had initially estimated an incubation period from 10 to 14 days [2].
The United States' CDC estimates the incubation period for COVID-19 to be between 2 and 14 days [3].
DXY.cn, a leading Chinese online community for physicians and health care professionals, is reporting an incubation period of "3 to 7 days, up to 14 days".
The estimated range will be most likely narrowed down as more data becomes available.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-incubation-period/

The number of cases in Oklahoma (49) is still quite low.

We are in unchartered waters, but it's still hard to imagine a shelter at home order for OKC/Oklahoma coming this weekend.

There should be a national shelter at home order, not state. It should have been required two weeks ago when this whole thing could have been minimize. But better late than never, it will have to happen within the week.

There should be a national shelter at home order, not state. It should have been required two weeks ago when this whole thing could have been minimize. But better late than never, it will have to happen within the week.

Yea, that will never happen for a variety of reasons, the most obvious of which being that no branch of the federal government has the constitutional or statutory authority to mandate such a lockdown.

I may be in 100% denial. I just believe from what all I've read this virus has been here for a couple of months and we are simply not seeing the surge of deaths you'd think we should have, based on all the media and governmental hype. I hope I'm just full of dumb luck and I'm right. If I'm not, well, there wasn't really anything I could have done differently and my opinion has zero impact either way. I read all the editorials describing people just like me, who have their doubts about the fatality of it all, but I just can't kick that gnawing at my gut,

I may be in 100% denial. I just believe from what all I've read this virus has been here for a couple of months and we are simply not seeing the surge of deaths you'd think we should have, based on all the media and governmental hype. I hope I'm just full of dumb luck and I'm right. If I'm not, well, there wasn't really anything I could have done differently and my opinion has zero impact either way. I read all the editorials describing people just like me, who have their doubts about the fatality of it all, but I just can't kick that gnawing at my gut,

I feel the same way.

I may be in 100% denial. I just believe from what all I've read this virus has been here for a couple of months and we are simply not seeing the surge of deaths you'd think we should have, based on all the media and governmental hype. I hope I'm just full of dumb luck and I'm right. If I'm not, well, there wasn't really anything I could have done differently and my opinion has zero impact either way. I read all the editorials describing people just like me, who have their doubts about the fatality of it all, but I just can't kick that gnawing at my gut,

Let’s hope. The initial data out of China indicated the relatively high death rate was at least partly due to the high rate of smoking and air pollution there, which is always bad for a virus that causes respiratory disease. Further, their health system is poorer in every aspect compared to ours. If all that is true—and we won’t know with certainty if it is for many months—then our fatality rate should be significantly below theirs as we have fewer smokers, cleaner air, and better health infrastructure.

Beginning this morning, my employer (in downtown okc) started mandatory temperature readings each morning before employees are allowed to enter the office building.

And work from home is now mandatory for those who are able.

Any other organizations doing temperature readings yet?