I am not sure if this has been listed here or not. Mahogany Prime Steakhouse in the University North Park development.


Steakhouse to locate in UNP @ www.nedcok.com (http://www.nedcok.com/pages/home_page/news_cat/samantha_news_story_2906/news_story.xml)

It looks like they broke ground on the hotel and conference center.

Hotel, conference center considered to be 'crown jewel' @ www.nedcok.com (http://www.nedcok.com/pages/home_page/news_cat/samantha_news_story_2902/news_story.xml)

Any updates on UNP?

I drove through there Monday and there are a lot of buildings making progress just north of the Target, and one set much further north all alone. I thought that was kind of odd.

Yeah, I believe the one wayyyyyy north is the Hotel and Conference Center.

The one way north is Kohls. The hotel is on the east side of 24th ave. There isnt anything to see on it yet. They were finishing up drilling piers last week.

Yeah, it was a big box. Couldn't have been the hotel.

kohl's in unp? would that be too close to the existing one on 19th & i-35? -M

There was a stenciled/painted sign there at one point that said "Kohl's", but I did not think they would put another one that close to the one in Moore.

Amazing how much of a mystery all the development at UNP seems to be! Why all the secrecy???

What is the update on the Embassy Suites - Went to the JQ Hammons website and there is no longer mention of proprerty being built in Norman - Does anyone know what happened?

What is the update on the Embassy Suites - Went to the JQ Hammons website and there is no longer mention of proprerty being built in Norman - Does anyone know what happened?

They are building it. It appears they are on the second or third story by now (the shell at least)

I wish someone would post some pictures here to show everybody how fast this project is coming along. It doesn't seem like the rain has slowed them down much. I drive to through Norman once or twice a week and am always amazed with just how much progress is being made.

Here are the latest plans and a brochure for UNP:

http://www.soonerinvestment.com/pdf_flyers/univ_town_ctr_norman_dp-0607.pdf

http://www.soonerinvestment.com/pdf_flyers/univTownCenter_BigBrochure-0607.pdf

Basically, you can add Qdoba, DSW, and Athletic Villiage to the list.

So where's the lifestyle center we've heard so much about. I couldn't pick it out in those pics from all the parking. Looks to me like just a crapload of parking and strip mall stores - nothing special.

This project has really fallen short of what it was originally said to be. First it was to be the second largest mall in the country then it was to be a lifestyle center. Either of those would have at least been something fairly unique and different. I don't see that this is going to be a whole lot different than what's on Ed Noble Pkwy. But there's still time for me to be proven wrong eventhough I doubt that'll happen.

**disappointed**

There's still hope. They've only announced the tenants of around 300,000 sq ft out of the 1.5 million sq ft.

Count me as another dissapointed citizen. Nothing special, just more of the same.

Count me as not disappointed. I think this will be good for norman over all, especially with the conference center and other businesses not currently in the immediate area. The open air lifestyle center as they have stated before will not be built yet and what we have so far is a small portion of the overall picture. We should still be excited for this.

Traxx, apparently, you dont know what a lifestyle center is. it is a a bunch of strip malls facing each other. The difference between a regular mall and a lifestyle is that you have to walk store to store outside and it kind of feels like old town shopping. If you have ever been to a lifestyle mall, they are very nice, lots of landscaping, small town feel, and lots of walking, but very very nice as compared to a big box mall. Now, its not feasible to fit huge department stores all over the place in a regular mall, thats why they are building the parts they are building. Also, they have to get traffic up so that they can attract the Banana Republic's, Jcrew, etc. to the lifestyle mall.

you might be disappointed but i dont think you understand just how much constructions is yet to be done and how much more there is to come. they havent even started on the lifestyle center which is going to be around 750k feet of shopping. this is a huge area and will take another 3 years to get built out. Be patient.

And this is becoming more than expected because since the inception, they have added a 15 million convention center to be built next to embassy suites. thats a big deal. not to mention, where else in the okc metro or rest of the state is there a 10 story embassy suites. that is a very nice hotel.

just be patient and remember the old saying "if you build it, they will come". Also, keep in mind there is another mile of undeveloped unplanned property to the north of this that i am sure will boom shortly after this is done.

Architecture Record - October 2006

Pret-a-Cite

Thomas Hine

Can the Main Street looks of a lifestyle center produce an instant community?

Back in the 1970s, there was a lot of talk about how shopping malls had become the new downtowns. Civic life, from which Americans had spent decades trying to escape, was blossoming anew, it was said, amid the plastic plants and the shoe stores.

Even at the time, the argument was a bit ridiculous, as anyone who tried to distribute a pamphlet or advocate a position soon discovered; retail developers suppressed the substance of public life as relentlessly as they removed old chewing gum. As for aesthetics, anyone could see that putting a fountain in front of J.C. Penney didn't make it into the Piazza Navona.

Nowadays, many people are harboring some of the same idealistic--or nostalgic--hopes for the fastest-growing retail format of the moment, the lifestyle center. This is a sort of hybrid of a strip center and a mall, with Main Street overtones. It is outdoors, with varied, yet carefully regulated, building profiles, materials, and signage that are intended to evoke a sense of organic growth over time. Parking is abundant, but usually interlaced with the stores and punctuated by landscaped walks. The projects have names such as "The Shoppes at Grand Prairie," which is located near Peoria, Illinois, and touts its Georgian Revival architecture, or "Aspen Grove," a center in Littleton, Colorado, that features an actual grove of aspens and whose buildings employ seemingly haphazard rooflines and patches of red wooden siding to resemble a cluster of barns.

Such developments usually lack department-store anchor tenants, but they give high visibility to nationally known chains--such as Williams-Sonoma, Restoration Hardware, Banana Republic, and Whole Foods--that offer distinctive products and experiences. They also include a wide range of restaurants, and sometimes nighttime draws such as multiplex cinemas and comedy clubs. Only a few years ago, lifestyle centers averaged 150,000 square feet, but those currently in development range from 500,000 to nearly 1 million square feet.

The building of new malls has come to a near standstill, while lifestyle centers have spread north from the sunbelt and are now operating, or in development, in every part of the country. Typically, they first appear in affluent, fast-growing exurban areas--one reason why per-square-foot sales at lifestyle centers average roughly 22 percent more than at malls, according to the International Council of Shopping Centers. With these numbers, it's easy to see why new ones are springing up so rapidly, and developers are reconfiguring their existing malls according to this model.

The mall, the traditional shopping center form, was based on having two or more department stores at its extremities that would generate plenty of foot traffic for the smaller stores in between. Today, although department stores aren't quite extinct, there are fewer of them, and those that remain lack allure. Fortunately for retail developers, many other retailers are familiar and attractive to consumers, with brands that span catalogs and Web sites. An outdoor center gives these brands a visible presence, and it allows shoppers to park near their favorite stores, get what they want, and get out without enduring a forced march through Macy's.

Efficiency seems to be a real advantage for shoppers. A recent study found they spend about $84 an hour in lifestyle centers, compared to $58 an hour at malls. They visit the same number of retailers, but they spend less time per visit: 56 minutes, as opposed to 76 minutes. The contemporary time-stressed consumer finds real value in being able to get what they want and get out quickly. This flies in the face of age-old retailing wisdom that says if people spend more time in a retail environment, they will spend more money. It also contradicts the rhetoric of lifestyle-center promoters who say that they are developing centers of community where people can gather day and night to enjoy unique, urbane places. The main attraction for shoppers, though, is that they can use these places like a real-world Internet that offers instant gratification.

There's no reason, of course, why a shopping center can't be both a pleasant place to linger and an efficient place to shop. Lifestyle centers offer consumers more freedom and flexibility than malls. It is up to those who design these properties, along with those who design the stores and merchandise them, to make places where people will want to spend more time.

Each lifestyle center claims to be unique, despite offering a familiar lineup of stores, so architects should benefit from greater opportunity to explore local traditions or express community values. Yet, aside from some very superficial regional differences in iconography--Wild West in Nevada, Mediterranean in Florida, or Ye Olde in Massachusetts--lifestyle centers nationwide resemble each other just as much as malls do. A big reason is that nearly all of these properties are molded by the same lifestyle: one that boasts above-average income, is footloose, and more influenced by magazines and television than by local factors.

There are a handful of exceptions. The Lab, located in a converted factory building in Costa Mesa, California, opened in 1993 and is often cited as a pioneering center. It remains atypical in courting young people as customers, and its edgy design features artfully broken pavement, weedy plants, and other markers of apparent abandonment that affirm its self-proclaimed ambition to be "the anti-mall." This aesthetic is echoed across the street at The Camp, whose angular, metal-clad buildings and an irregular plan evoke the sense of adventure shared by the center's sports-oriented retail tenants. But most lifestyle centers are aggressively genteel in their style, promising a shopping environment undisturbed by teenagers.

The traditional look of lifestyle centers means that they are far easier to plug into New Urbanist planning schemes than are inward-facing malls. Increasingly, developers are adding mixed-use components to these projects as later phases, or building apartments and offices above street-level retail shops. For instance, Crocker Park, in Westlake, Ohio, west of Cleveland, is currently operating as a 250,000-square-foot lifestyle center, with more than 60 stores and a dozen restaurants, all housed in buildings that share a watered-down Beaux-Arts aesthetic. But plans call for the development to grow to 1.7 million square feet, doubling its retail component and adding 250,000 square feet of offices and 900,000 square feet of houses and apartments. The premise, though largely untested, is that if you build the town center, then young professionals, boomer empty nesters, and others will arrive to create the town.

There's no question that lifestyle centers look more like main streets, frontier towns, and village greens than traditional shopping malls did. Architects are becoming increasingly adept at making three or four big boxes look like several dozen smaller ones. And while malls often sought to replace the old urban downtown, lifestyle centers typically seek a cozy, small-town feel. This is an easier kind of urbanism to achieve and one that may be needed in many exurban areas that grew rapidly without any centers of civic or commercial life. Still, as lifestyle centers become ubiquitous, there will be many cases where they threaten real examples of the hometown American urbanism they strive so hard to emulate.

For the moment, the lifestyle center is not necessarily a problem or a solution. It is little more than a winning retail development formula--one that solves problems for developers and tenants, and saves time for consumers. As long as its success is judged solely on sales, though, such a development can never be a real place, let alone a town center. Nobody can spend $84 an hour forever.

Thomas Hine is the author of I Want That! How We All Became Shoppers and The Rise and Fall of the American Teenager, among other books. He was architecture critic for The Philadelphia Inquirer from 1973 to 1996.

Seems like a pretty typical layout for an area that is centered around a lifestyle center (which is where the cinema is). It will definitely bring a lot of new companies to Norman. Some impact to existing businesses, but not many - BB&B being one relocating from Ed Noble Parkway.

dirtypop,

I do know what a lifestyle center is and it's more than a couple of strip malls facing each other. It can be a lot more.

It's something like this:

http://personal.denison.edu/~andersont/urbanity/pictures/TownCenter.jpg

or this:

http://esterofl.org/images/developer/tuscanypark.jpg

If it were just a couple of strip malls facing each other then why not just call it that instead of a lifestyle center. Lifestyle centers are supposed to be centered around pedestians not cars. In the above pdf files I see parking in the center of whats supposed to be the lifestyle center. Lifestyle centers have a courtyard with places of interest for foot traffic like fountains, benches, patios and out door cafes.

If a lifestyle center is going to be defined as just strip malls facing each other then Norman already has some: The shops in front of the East side Wal-mart and the shopping center at Robinson & 36th Ave NW. As nice as the the shopping center on Robinson is I still expect far more from a lifestyle center.

Maybe I'll change my tune once it's built and I see it. Maybe it'll still be good.

Every "lifestyle center" that I have been to, including The Shops at Legacy, The Woodlands Market Place, Southlake Town Square, and others, have all had parking in the streets between the shops. They have also all had "big box" stores in close proximity to the lifestyle center.

UNP is going to have parks, trails, water features, landscaping, etc. that all the other lifestyle centers have. It may not have all the stores that everyone is hoping for, but that won't be because the developers didn't try to get them. Ultimately, it is up to the retailer whether or not they come.

Hopefully, the UNP will land some retailers that are new to Oklahoma, but at the very least, it will land retailors that are new to Norman.

Legends in Kansas City doesn't have parking between the shops. And as far as retailers that are new to Norman: TJ Maxx, Office Depot, Cicuit City? C'mon. As if there isn't a Ross, Office Max and Best Buy just down the street. And Kohls? True Norman doesn't have one but when there's one just ten minutes up the road and Kohls is subpar anyway.

I'm all for the above mentioned stores having competition in Norman but not at UNP. Not after what it was built up to be. And I know you can't force companies into your development but I also think they just went after what was easy in order to fill up the space quickly.

I think we were sold a bogus bill of goods as consumers. We were fed high talking propaganda and I for one bought it to a certain extent. Look at what it was billed as when it was first made public and looked at what it's turning out to be.

Even if they would put in mall type stores such as American Eagle instead of the usual strip mall fair that would be something. It doesn't have to be stores that are completely unique to Oklahoma.

I know you guys are just trying to be positive but after what happened to lower (lesser) Bricktown I just can't hold out the same hope. Don't be suprised when you see coming to UNP Cingular, a nail salon, Gamestop, Payday Loans and Big Lots.

I'm not sure what you mean by "being fed high talking propaganda" since the very first sales pitch included SuperTarget as the main anchor. From day one, the plans included big box stores and a town center. I don't know if there is enough upscale retail out there to fill up 1.5 million sq ft.

I'm looking forward to not having to drive to north OKC or Edmond for Qdoba, Pei Wei, DSW, SuperTarget, and probably Banana Republic, J. Crew, etc.

Maybe I am being optimistic, but I also think I had realistic expectations from the inception.

I agree...there are too many people out there with unrealistic expectations...the development was originally conceived as having multiple parts to it...the SuperTarget was the first component, and the second phase of stores were never "sold" as necessarily being new and upscale retailers...hopefully, those will arrive in the later phases when the development moves across the street, next to the new hotel and conference center. So far I am satisfied with what has been done/is being done. I, too, enjoy/will enjoy having SuperTarget, PeiWei, and Qdoba nearby. I am also very impressed with the overall look of the development. As "adverstised," everything is very well landscaped, and the buildings look much better than the average "strip-mall" construction. Indeed, some friends who were visiting from the Washington DC-area recently remarked that our SuperTarget was the nicest one they had ever seen (and that area of the country certainly has its fair share of upscale shopping areas). As others have already suggested, more patience is needed.

Lifestyle center with parking along the "main street" area...

J. Preston Levis Commons (http://www.leviscommons.com/index.html)

Would like to see the water/lake feature in this one that is under construction by General Growth Properties...who owns Sooner Mall and Quail Springs....

General Growth Properties (GGP) (http://www.ggp.com/properties/ndFallen_timbers.htm)

I echo BFizzy...the less I have to travel north the better. Of course that isn't entirely good for OKC either, but having strong and growing suburbs is always a good thing. Now all we need is that idea for a massive lake on the south side of Norman to happen and this place will almost be perfect. ;)

you can't get the big boys to commit until you can provide some foot traffic..... They aren't going to build their exclusive stores in field and hope the customers come..... '

How hard is that to figure out... It's almost like some of you want it to fail to have something to whine about.....

I concur!


you can't get the big boys to commit until you can provide some foot traffic..... They aren't going to build their exclusive stores in field and hope the customers come..... '

How hard is that to figure out... It's almost like some of you want it to fail to have something to whine about.....

you can't get the big boys to commit until you can provide some foot traffic..... They aren't going to build their exclusive stores in field and hope the customers come..... '

How hard is that to figure out... It's almost like some of you want it to fail to have something to whine about.....

See also the 9 million threads whining about Lower Bricktown....Same mentality

Would be very encouraging if some kind of exciting announcement came out soon

One big catch would turn this thread completely around

Alright, alright, lay off. I give. You all have convinced me. I'm so excited to not have to drive to OKC for Office Depot. I can't tell you how long I've been harboring that sentiment. FINALLY!!!!!!!!!! Norman has it's own Office Depot. Let's just throw up any old crap strip mall and just be glad that there's not green grass growing in that area any longer.

As far as the question of what I meant by propaganda...well when this first came to light a few years ago in a thread of a different title (not sure what it was called) it said it was going to be the second or third largest mall in the nation, then it was said it would be upperscale shopping now we've got Target and TJ Maxx. Woo Hoo!

And yes, you can get the "Big Boys" to sign on without smaller stores filling up the space first. That's why they call them anchors.

But all that's water under the bridge now. I'm just excited to have TJ Max, seas of parking and I don't have to look at that pasture anymore.

Alright, alright, lay off. I give. You all have convinced me. I'm so excited to not have to drive to OKC for Office Depot. I can't tell you how long I've been harboring that sentiment. FINALLY!!!!!!!!!! Norman has it's own Office Depot. Let's just throw up any old crap strip mall and just be glad that there's not green grass growing in that area any longer.

As far as the question of what I meant by propaganda...well when this first came to light a few years ago in a thread of a different title (not sure what it was called) it said it was going to be the second or third largest mall in the nation, then it was said it would be upperscale shopping now we've got Target and TJ Maxx. Woo Hoo!

And yes, you can get the "Big Boys" to sign on without smaller stores filling up the space first. That's why they call them anchors.

But all that's water under the bridge now. I'm just excited to have TJ Max, seas of parking and I don't have to look at that pasture anymore.

so obviously your assumption is that there is NO POSSIBILITY of anything better than TJ Maxx and Office Depot going up in UNP.

Do you know something, or are you just indulging in your half empty glass of milk while you cry about the other half that is spilt?

Have you naysayers seen the SuperTarget or the new construction going up? It is remarkable architecture with beautiful landscaping. The "lifestyle center" part will not even be started for at least a year. Just wait. It will be worth it.

Its almost as if people expected the whole thing to be a lifestyle center...sigh.

People seem to forget that nearly every mall, you have your Payless Shoes or other low end store. Why? It drives more foot traffic...which should increase overall customers going into the higher end stores.

Have you naysayers seen the SuperTarget or the new construction going up? It is remarkable architecture with beautiful landscaping. The "lifestyle center" part will not even be started for at least a year. Just wait. It will be worth it.

It's...a...SuperTarget, a big box with nice brick, not the Sidney Opera House.

It's...a...SuperTarget, a big box with nice brick, not the Sidney Opera House.

My point is that people on this very forum complain excessively about there being too much concrete and stucco and not enough trees and brick in suburban developments and then complain about something else when we get a nice development that has the very same aspects they were complaining about not having!

http://soonerinvestment.com/pdf_flyers/univTownCenter_BigBrochure-0607.pdf
Look at the bottom of page 2. The elevation of the lifestyle center part looks pretty nice to me.

Do you know something, or are you just indulging in your half empty glass of milk while you cry about the other half that is spilt?

I told ya. You guys can stop using me as a whipping boy. I've seen the light. The brickwork and landscaping they're going to put up in front of Office Depot is going to make the Sydney Opera house look like a Port-A-Potty. My glass is all the way full. It's even overflowing. My cup runneth over - TJ Maxx, Office Depot and Circuit City all in one place - I can hardly contain myself!

Death to all whiners!!! Especially those who complain about Lower Bricktown. Who cares if it looks just like the stores at Memorial and Penn. Those stores are a great template that should be used for any development, anywhere.

Count me as on board with the rest of you guys. I don't wanna be the lone dissenter. It's lonely out here. **sniff, sniff, cry** As the saying goes "A million monkeys can't be wrong."

Trees and brick do not good architecture make. That SuperTarget is no different from any other.

Agreed, though I do think it is nice looking. To be honest I'm surprised the new target has done as well as it has. 24th and Robinson seemed like a kinda out-of-the-way place to me, but it seems to have been a hit! Even though it is further from me than the old one was...

I think it is nice looking as well and I think that the whole development looking like that is even better. Once the whole project is put together, then it will look awesome. People seem to be too jaded on this forum sometimes and you should give yourself a big hug every once in awhile.

I told ya. You guys can stop using me as a whipping boy. I've seen the light. The brickwork and landscaping they're going to put up in front of Office Depot is going to make the Sydney Opera house look like a Port-A-Potty. My glass is all the way full. It's even overflowing. My cup runneth over - TJ Maxx, Office Depot and Circuit City all in one place - I can hardly contain myself!

Death to all whiners!!! Especially those who complain about Lower Bricktown. Who cares if it looks just like the stores at Memorial and Penn. Those stores are a great template that should be used for any development, anywhere.

Count me as on board with the rest of you guys. I don't wanna be the lone dissenter. It's lonely out here. **sniff, sniff, cry** As the saying goes "A million monkeys can't be wrong."

I too have learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. I too love subsidized corporate big boxes! I love chain stores at the expense of locally owned businesses. Ain't life grand?

Man i really love how businesses continue to come to norman and create jobs for the people here. I too love that people are investing in our community and making things happen as opposed to other people. Ain't life grand!

Man i really love how businesses continue to come to norman and create jobs for the people here. I too love that people are investing in our community and making things happen as opposed to other people. Ain't life grand!

There's growth and then there's smart growth.

Larger population numbers are generally good for a large city especially if the numbers increase and the city is growing. But, you wouldn't want to bring in all the gang members, rapists, sex predators, drug dealers, people who refuse to get a job and work or anyone else who creates a strain on society, just to swell you population numbers. You want those with original ideas, who think outside the box, who work hard and are good members of the community. Not those that bleed the community and then leave it when its only an empty shell.

The same goes here.

There's growth and then there's smart growth.

Larger population numbers are generally good for a large city especially if the numbers increase and the city is growing. But, you wouldn't want to bring in all the gang members, rapists, sex predators, drug dealers, people who refuse to get a job and work or anyone else who creates a strain on society, just to swell you population numbers. You want those with original ideas, who think outside the box, who work hard and are good members of the community. Not those that bleed the community and then leave it when its only an empty shell.

The same goes here.

So its better to just let Norman's sales tax base to go to OKC and Moore?

I'm like a lot of others that I don't understand the blantant negativity towards this project when less than 25 percent of it has even been built or been anounnced.

The actual lifestyle center that's been so trumped up hasn't even had the utilites installed for it and people are already chalking this up as a "disappontment." Really? I think people need to seriously wait a few years because I think this is going to be a great project when completely done, which probably won't be for at least a decade. And yes, is still a suburban style shopping center, and no, its not something you will see in the middle of Mannhattan or San fran. But it does have quality design implemented into it that helps it look a lot better than some of the other run-of-the mill big box corridors. Take it for what its worth; I seriously doubt most people will not shop there because they don't like the brick motiff or the landscaping or they feel its too "suburban." And I think the "smart growth" you allude to would have meant a whole bunch of historic buildings in downtown or campus corner would have been bulldozed to make room .

I for one am glad that Norman finally recoginzes that its grown large enough to support just Sooner Mall and Holiday Inn.

There's growth and then there's smart growth.

Larger population numbers are generally good for a large city especially if the numbers increase and the city is growing. But, you wouldn't want to bring in all the gang members, rapists, sex predators, drug dealers, people who refuse to get a job and work or anyone else who creates a strain on society, just to swell you population numbers. You want those with original ideas, who think outside the box, who work hard and are good members of the community. Not those that bleed the community and then leave it when its only an empty shell.

The same goes here.

Traxx,

Can you tell me where the original ideas are at? I haven't see anything small and new in year. Oh, wait, lets forget how much of a sucess Othello's on ed noble was!

If you want to live in a small town with small town ideas, go to noble or newcastle. Norman is a city of over 100k people. In order for a city to continue to grow, you have to grow smart. i will agree with that. But, the smart factors of what they are doing here are the 4x normal landscaping and brick budgets, the lifestyle center, when started and completed will be like nothing in Oklahoma. People complain about seeing parking lots, but how can you build 2 million square feet of shopping without somewhere for those people to park.

You might also forget that as norman has grown in the last 20 years, with growth you have to have more schools, more fireman, policeman, more city crews, trash trucks, etc. In 10 years, this highly concentrated area of shopping will be producing so much sales tax revenue, that it will help the city continue to grow. Also, the school system will recieve so much money from the property taxes, that we wont be firing teachers or barely passing bonds to build new schools.

That sounds like a smart decision to me. And for those of us that are excited about this project, why dont the people that dont have anything positive to say, go shop elsewhere. Its going to be quite funny, why you drive to circuit city to buy a tv and spend that money and walk out with a weight on your shoulders because you were such a hypocrite, now you are one of those people, one of the people that spent money at the new "big box" wanna be sydney opera house!

:ou :ou2

There's growth and then there's smart growth.

Larger population numbers are generally good for a large city especially if the numbers increase and the city is growing. But, you wouldn't want to bring in all the gang members, rapists, sex predators, drug dealers, people who refuse to get a job and work or anyone else who creates a strain on society, just to swell you population numbers. You want those with original ideas, who think outside the box, who work hard and are good members of the community. Not those that bleed the community and then leave it when its only an empty shell.

The same goes here.

I forgot Traxx, besides TJ Maxx being a bunch of rapists and drug dealers, whose to say that these people who work there aren't good members of the community? I bet that is what you think about Sams Club and Walmart, but you are quick to forget the thousands of dollars they send out to the local community each year.

I can see it now, all you anti-big box people would be in Heaven! Death to the man! Shop at your local hometown IGA store and get Fred to cut your meat fresh off the cow. Now thats service! Edna will even bag your grocieries in those cute brown paper sacks for you. If you want, you can even bring back the brown paper sacks for reuse. Thats environmental friendly you know. Stop on the bread isle while you are here for your local grown farm fresh bread and eggs.

Well, i gotta run, i need to stop at the big purple box to look at a dvd player then head over to the tan and blue box behind it to get some groceries, then head back to my house and stop on the way at the big orange box to get some home repair items, and then get gas at little box on each corner.

:ou2 :ou

I forgot Traxx, besides TJ Maxx being a bunch of rapists and drug dealers, whose to say that these people who work there aren't good members of the community? I bet that is what you think about Sams Club and Walmart, but you are quick to forget the thousands of dollars they send out to the local community each year.

I can see it now, all you anti-big box people would be in Heaven! Death to the man! Shop at your local hometown IGA store and get Fred to cut your meat fresh off the cow. Now thats service! Edna will even bag your grocieries in those cute brown paper sacks for you. If you want, you can even bring back the brown paper sacks for reuse. Thats environmental friendly you know. Stop on the bread isle while you are here for your local grown farm fresh bread and eggs.

Well, i gotta run, i need to stop at the big purple box to look at a dvd player then head over to the tan and blue box behind it to get some groceries, then head back to my house and stop on the way at the big orange box to get some home repair items, and then get gas at little box on each corner.

:ou2 :ou


It was an allegory. Apparently lost on you.

I wasn't saying that a city shouldn't grow but that when it grows it should do so with a plan. Don't build something just because there's undeveloped land there and you think there needs to be another Office Depot because there just aren't enough stores around to buy a printer.

If you're going to develop an area, think what you can do to make it different and original. What stores can you get to come in that are new to the area?

Growth for the sake of growth is stupid. But growth that actually brings added value is good.

But I don't know why you're getting mad at me, I already said that I'd seen the light and you guys had converted me. This is going to be the greatest shopping center since Ed Noble Pkwy.

Now leave me alone so I can go see Edna at the IGA and then go home to watch Matlock reruns.:053:

The full-on development proposals for UTC & LP landed on my desk a couple of weeks ago, and I think that everyone should be satisfied with the tenant mix once all of the retailers are in place. Just like modern malls have wings associated with different types of stores, this large development is laid out just the same. There's a place for everyone at UTC & LP. I'm a little disappointed in the overall architectural elements for the development, as they look like an Oklahoma version of the lifestyle centers I've been visiting all over the country.

If I could compare what I saw in the packet of information to another successful project, I'd direct you guys to research Market Street in The Woodlands, TX, by a group called Trademark Property - this is probably the best lifestyle center I've been to thusfar.

This, of course, will be no South Coast Plaza or Northpark Center but should work well for Norman nonetheless. I just wish Sooner Investments would slip a few more images and tenant listings to the public.

I saw signs for TJ MAx, Kohls, and Petco today. Can we not get the Banana Republic type stores? I guess we will have to wait, (and hope) that they come to the Oklahoma Factory Shoppes in a few years.

I don't know what is so hard for people to understand. They are building the outlying stores right now. Virtually every mall or lifestyle center in the country has outlying stores like the ones this one will have. The lifestyle center is in a later phase and will have mall-type stores.

I don't know what is so hard for people to understand. They are building the outlying stores right now. Virtually every mall or lifestyle center in the country has outlying stores like the ones this one will have. The lifestyle center is in a later phase and will have mall-type stores.

THANK YOU.

I just don't understand how it is so difficult for some people to get through their heads that what we see now is less than a quarter of the first part of the master plan. The upscale lifestyle center is still grass and trees! Construction has NOT been started yet. Look at any upscale shopping district and you will see there are other shopping opportunities that accompany the upscale part. Have some patience people.

If this goes as fast as the first phase it really won't be that long. I drove by this morning at 7 and then again about 7 this evening and it had changed in 12 hours. It looks as though the first stores will be open pretty soon.

I don't know what is so hard for people to understand. They are building the outlying stores right now. Virtually every mall or lifestyle center in the country has outlying stores like the ones this one will have. The lifestyle center is in a later phase and will have mall-type stores.


THANK YOU.

I just don't understand how it is so difficult for some people to get through their heads that what we see now is less than a quarter of the first part of the master plan. The upscale lifestyle center is still grass and trees! Construction has NOT been started yet. Look at any upscale shopping district and you will see there are other shopping opportunities that accompany the upscale part. Have some patience people.

I don't understand why some people can't see that this is only the first part. Just look at any shopping center and you'll see that the upscale stores are accompanied by crappy stores you can find in any old strip mall. :wink:

Kwerstion I have is...What's up with having another Kohl's 5 minutes south of the one in Moore?

Same argument can be made for JC Penny...which moved further south into Moore. You have one in Sooner Mall. I think the general belief is that with the rate Norman is growing, it will sustain itself. With fuel prices as high as they are...people will become less likely to drive further up north. Personally, I drive to the city to go to work each day. If I had my choice, I would stay in Norman. Otherwise...I'm rarely in the City more than a couple times a month.

Guess so venture...Just thought it weird they would put another that close is all

The Norman Transcript - University North Park ahead of schedule (http://www.normantranscript.com/localnews/local_story_276003716.html)

Published: October 03, 2007 12:37 am

University North Park ahead of schedule
By Carol Cole-Frowe
Transcript Staff Writer

The $54.7 million University North Park Tax Increment Financing District is off and running, Norman city councilmembers heard at their Tuesday study session.

“It’s a strong start coming out of the gates,” said City Manager Steve Lewis, who managed several TIF districts in Lee’s Summit, Mo., where he previously was city administrator. “It’s ahead of projections.”

Assistant City Attorney Kathryn Walker told councilmembers, “with the rate of growth going on out there, we should see some impressive numbers.” Walker presented the quarterly update requested by the council.

“The entire west side is spoken for,” Walker said of the first phase of construction, designed to drive traffic. “They have potential tenants for every space over there. … It is going quicker than anticipated.”

One of those tenants opens today, with a Kohl’s ribbon cutting at 7 a.m.

“Now my wife and daughter can shop in Norman instead of Moore,” said Ward 2 councilmember Richard Stawicki after the meeting.

The council will consider Development Agreement No. 3 at its Oct. 9 regular meeting and is projecting issuance of $15 to $20 million in bond financing in December.

“We think the revenue streams being shown right now will service the debt,” said Jeff Bryant, city attorney.

The TIF funds for public improvements include $13.475 million for initial project costs and roadway improvements; $8.25 million for Legacy Park, landscaping and Legacy Trail; conference center and cultural facilities, $16.5 million; Lifestyle Center, $8.25 million; and economic development, $8.25 million.

Fifty percent of the ad valorem dollars over the original base amount go into the UNP TIF District No. 2 coffers, with 60 percent of sales tax increases going toward the TIF.

Ad valorem taxes will be measured against the base calendar year of 2006, when the undeveloped district was valued at $7.5 million, which included two parcels purchased by developers from the University of Oklahoma Foundation.

In calendar year 2007, the same property is projected to be worth more than $21 million. Projections for 2008 and 2009 for already-permitted buildings on the west side would grow the property values to $102 million, an estimate that doesn’t include contents.

Ad valorem tax from 2007 is projected at $165,112, with $82,556 going to the UNP TIF. The 2008-2009 projections for ad valorem tax are $1.16 million, with $580,585 going to the TIF.

Sales tax for fiscal year 2007 in the UNP TIF District totaled $1.6 million. Because Super Target moved from another Norman location, the store’s previous sales tax revenues were subtracted and the amount was adjusted down to $832,082. Of that, $499,249 or 60 percent would go to the TIF and $332,833 or 40 percent would go to the general fund.

Super Target opened a year ago, with Kohl’s opening today.

John Q. Hammons broke ground for a $50 million Embassy Suites Hotel/Conference Center on Feb. 28. Construction on the 10-story hotel is up to the seventh floor. Conference center construction began recently.

Retail outlets or restaurants announced so far for the first phase include Pei Wei Asian Bistro, AT&T, T-Mobile, Petco, Circuit City, Office Depot, Dress Barn, Maurice’s, Rack Room Shoes and TJ Maxx.

The second phase is planned to include the Lifestyle Center and would include an upscale shopping element that was the focus of the Citizens TIF Advisory Group that evaluated the project before council approved it.

Ward 1 councilmember Bob Thompson expressed concern that the city might just be “pushing dollars around.”

“That’s the elephant in the room,” Thompson said.

Ward 7 councilmember Doug Cubberley called some of that discussion “premature.”

“Let’s get a year of data in,” Cubberley said. “Are we making progress or are we treading water? … This has always been a stepped process. This is coming and it’s coming a lot faster than anyone envisioned. People have to have patience.”

Lewis said the city might consider hiring outside professionals to examine the extent of cannibalization and effects the district has on the city’s tax base.

Carol Cole-Frowe 366-3538 ccole@normantranscript.com

“Now my wife and daughter can shop in Norman instead of Moore,” said Ward 2 councilmember Richard Stawicki after the meeting.

Wow...What a huge relief for Norman residents....Living in Moore I am so sick and tired of driving for upwards of 5 minutes to shop in Norman

Congratulations Mrs Stawicki!!

I think that comment was more about keeping tax dollars instead of giving them to another city, but I could be wrong; working in retail in Quail Springs, I know (as they are sure to let me know) the pain of Edmondites who have to drive ALL the way down to Quail to shop.

That is correct. It's all about tax dollars.