It's likely the insurance company is actually behind the lawsuit.
Exactly…I’ve been meaning to point this out. Obviously, the developer and OGE (and its contractor) are parties to this lawsuit, but this is really a lawsuit between insurance companies. The other parties obviously don’t want to be out their deductibles, and none of them want their insurance rates to skyrocket. I’m sure there are other damages being sought/considered, but the entities with the most to lose here are the respective insurers.


I think too many on here think all business dealings are personal and businesses are way more petty than they are. This will run its course and OGE and the developers will gladly work together just fine. The sub contractor, if found culpable likely will not survive , or at least not a part of the future with either OGE or the developer.
Also this.

Exactly…I’ve been meaning to point this out. Obviously, the developer and OGE (and its contractor) are parties to this lawsuit, but this is really a lawsuit between insurance companies. The other parties obviously don’t want to be out their deductibles, and none of them want their insurance rates to skyrocket. I’m sure there are other damages being sought/considered, but the entities with the most to lose here are the respective insurers.


Also this.

I used to be the person in charge of my company's relationship with our largest partner in a deal worth tens of millions of dollars a month. And when I would visit our partner there were always lawyers present because my parent company was suing our partner company for more money than our partnership would would ever make. But no one ever wanted to end our very lucrative business relationship, because money. Companies all the time are at once partners and adversaries at different levels with different business entities. It happens all the time.

I used to be the person in charge of my company's relationship with our largest partner in a deal worth tens of millions of dollars a month. And when I would visit our partner there were always lawyers present because my parent company was suing our partner company for more money than our partnership would would ever make. But no one ever wanted to end our very lucrative business relationship, because money. Companies all the time are at once partners and adversaries at different levels with different business entities. It happens all the time.

Exactly. Business is business — it’s strictly financial.

Exactly. Business is business — it’s strictly financial.

And pragmatic

Random question for the legally minded:

Assuming that Red Dirt is not some huge business, but is also set up to limit the personal liability of it's owners, would anything prevent them from paying themselves and employees a nice bonus right now so that if/when a judgement comes down, the amount of money surrendered in a bankruptcy by the business is substantially less?

Random question for the legally minded:

Assuming that Red Dirt is not some huge business, but is also set up to limit the personal liability of it's owners, would anything prevent them from paying themselves and employees a nice bonus right now so that if/when a judgement comes down, the amount of money surrendered in a bankruptcy by the business is substantially less?
I’m guessing the overall contracts are set up so that Red Dirt is only on the hook for the limit of their insurance policy or bond(s). Unless there were criminal acts performed by, or at the direction of, the Red Dirt owners, they are okay. And if there were criminal acts proven, the asset diversion you are describing would be considered criminal also.

Keep in mind I am an old, high school graduate, small business owner. Take my opinion with that CV.

I see on Channel 9 news this morning that the Red Dirt Electric listed in the lawsuit was a typo. Was supposed to be Red Dirt Construction. Report said the plaintiffs and their attorneys did not comment. However, Red Dirt Electric owner said one attorney had privately apologized to him.

.......mybad....

I see on Channel 9 news this morning that the Red Dirt Electric listed in the lawsuit was a typo. Was supposed to be Red Dirt Construction. Report said the plaintiffs and their attorneys did not comment. However, Red Dirt Electric owner said one attorney had privately apologized to him.

.......mybad....

That’s a really bad look for Phillips Murrah. I thought that was supposed to be a relatively elite law firm?

Trust me the atty won't get in trouble. It'll be the paralegal or legal secretary that'll get chewing out.

Trust me the atty won't get in trouble. It'll be the paralegal or legal secretary that'll get chewing out.

I suspect the attorney that was assigned to the case will be dinged for not proofing and reviewing properly. I know what you are implying, but there will likely be consequences for all involved. It isn’t just the low person. It’s just that most firms don’t air their dirty laundry in public.

I suspect the attorney that was assigned to the case will be dinged for not proofing and reviewing properly. I know what you are implying, but there will likely be consequences for all involved. It isn’t just the low person. It’s just that most firms don’t air their dirty laundry in public.

Careless errors can be extremely costly in the legal profession. Would not be surprised at all if the paralegal and attorney were severely reprimanded over this.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/red-dirt-electric-construction-lawsuit-sued-the-canton-at-classen-curve-subcontractor-business-legal-team-spencer-struck-kingfisher-oklahoma-city-largest-commercial-fire-apology-plaintiff-defendant-customers-meeting-court-documents-apartment-apartments

Here's a quote from the lead attorney on the case, Charles McGill.


I AM NOT CRAZY! I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers, I knew it was 1216 — one after Magna Carta, as if I could ever make such a mistake! Never, never! I just-I just couldn't prove it! H-H-He covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him!

Here's a quote from the lead attorney on the case, Charles McGill.

nice!

Here's a quote from the lead attorney on the case, Charles McGill.

He was setup by Slippin Jimmy

Just received this via email:

*********

To whom it may concern:

Please accept this note in response to all news articles and/or requests for comment regarding the Canton Classen Curve Apartment fire lawsuit that was filed by my firm on July 12, 2023.

As you are aware, the lawsuit was filed on July 12, 2023. On July 17, 2023, it was brought to our attention, by Red Dirt Electric, LLC’s attorney, that the Petition inadvertently listed an incorrect Defendant, Red Dirt Electric, LLC. Immediate action was taken to remedy that mistake. A Dismissal Without Prejudice was filed as to Red Dirt Electric, LLC on July 18, 2023, along with an Amended Petition naming the correct party, Red Dirt Construction, LLC.

Additionally, on August 2, 2023, a partner at our firm, Robert Todd Goolsby, met with Spencer and Maegan Struck, owners of Red Dirt Electric, LLC, and their attorney, to personally apologize for the mistake and any problems and or inconvenience it may have caused. Apparently, that personal apology was insufficient to end this matter. As a result, we are offering this as our written statement to once again apologize for the error and for any inconvenience it may have caused.

Goolsby | Proctor

At this point did it really hurt Red Dirt Electric or are they just trying to milk sympathy business?

At this point did it really hurt Red Dirt Electric or are they just trying to milk sympathy business?

Legal expenses hurt.

At this point did it really hurt Red Dirt Electric or are they just trying to milk sympathy business?

If a major lawsuit publicly and wrongly blamed your life's business for a mid 8 figure fire, l think you'd be pretty livid.

At this point did it really hurt Red Dirt Electric or are they just trying to milk sympathy business?

Yes, it hurt without question. The media coverage alone has massive potential for damage to the business's name. Stories will float around with their name on it in perpetuity. The reason the law firm did not apologize is because they know they could be on the hook for compensatory damages.

Anyone googling that company's name will see news articles and comments about how they were sued. No dustups will prevent it.

Attorney's are paid handsomely for their detail skills. Someone failed to do that in this instance and a small business has been injured (legal fees) and should be held accountable. Firms also carry legal liability insurance when they do make errors. Surely there is a non-disclosed settlement in process?

At this point did it really hurt Red Dirt Electric or are they just trying to milk sympathy business?

It probably ruined their professional lives and will certainly result in them having to rebuild under a new legal structure, so yeah.

It probably ruined their professional lives and will certainly result in them having to rebuild under a new legal structure, so yeah.

I seriously doubt they had or will have to restructure. I also doubt it ruined their professional lives. In the end, they weren't accused of anything as the situation has been clarified. Doesn't mean they didn't suffer any expenses or temporary damage, but none that can't be easily rectified. In fact, I suspect a whole lot more people know about them than did before. And, are probably more sympathetic towards them for what happened and may even be more likely to use them.

Real bottom line is that you and I are both speculating only as neither of us know exactly what is going on with them.

I seriously doubt they had or will have to restructure. I also doubt it ruined their professional lives. In the end, they weren't accused of anything as the situation has been clarified. Doesn't mean they didn't suffer any expenses or temporary damage, but none that can't be easily rectified. In fact, I suspect a whole lot more people know about them than did before. And, are probably more sympathetic towards them for what happened and may even be more likely to use them.

Real bottom line is that you and I are both speculating only as neither of us know exactly what is going on with them.

Wrong parties get named in lawsuits --all of the time-- and it happens in a lot of complex civil cases. In most cases, plaintiff's lawyers will sue anyone who could possibly be liable and then trim down defendants as discovery progresses and they figure out where there may be viable theories of recovery. In this case, someone was told that a contractor named Red Dirt needed to be sued. Most likley, a business entity search was done at the Secretary of State's website and Red Dirt Electric came up on page one along with their service agent and that's the name that got stuck on the Petition.

It's an easy mistake to make when you're an attorney having to draft a Petition and you've never met or had anything to do with any of the parties involved. It looks like what needed to happen was what happened and the Petition got amended and the Electric Co was dismissed. There may or may not be attorneys fees involved on their part. It would have likely been sufficient for them to call the Plaintiff's attorneys and ask that they take a second look as their company had nothing to do with that project. It could have been as simple as that. No need to jump to conclusions here.

Wrong parties get named in lawsuits --all of the time-- and it happens in a lot of complex civil cases. In most cases, plaintiff's lawyers will sue anyone who could possibly be liable and then trim down defendants as discovery progresses and they figure out where there may be viable theories of recovery. In this case, someone was told that a contractor named Red Dirt needed to be sued. Most likley, a business entity search was done at the Secretary of State's website and Red Dirt Electric came up on page one along with their service agent and that's the name that got stuck on the Petition.

It's an easy mistake to make when you're an attorney having to draft a Petition and you've never met or had anything to do with any of the parties involved. It looks like what needed to happen was what happened and the Petition got amended and the Electric Co was dismissed. There may or may not be attorneys fees involved on their part. It would have likely been sufficient for them to call the Plaintiff's attorneys and ask that they take a second look as their company had nothing to do with that project. It could have been as simple as that. No need to jump to conclusions here.

Yes. But the vast majority of cases don't draw media scrutiny. Or scrutiny anywhere near the level of this lawsuit, which was a lead story in local media that ran for more than one day.

I would venture the exposure -- especially now they are being portrayed as being wronged by big law firms -- has only helped their business, and maybe by a lot.

I would venture the exposure -- especially now they are being portrayed as being wronged by big law firms -- has only helped their business, and maybe by a lot.

And good for them. The largest law firm in Oklahoma City, out of pure, rank incompetence chooses to sue a 3 person company that is completely innocent. I feel zero sympathy for the law firm and revel in their discomfort. And I am not implying that Pete is taking the law firm side, or feeling sorry for them.

The company that insures Oklahoma Gas & Electric is not going to be too happy to pay out this claim. Even if it gets settled out of court, the payout will be tens of millions of dollars.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2023/10/12/oge-oklahoma-canton-apartments-fire-steelyard-apartments-fire-unlicensed-electricians/71067521007/

The company that insures Oklahoma Gas & Electric is not going to be too happy to pay out this claim. Even if it gets settled out of court, the payout will be tens of millions of dollars.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2023/10/12/oge-oklahoma-canton-apartments-fire-steelyard-apartments-fire-unlicensed-electricians/71067521007/

Ope watch out, I'm sure our electric bills will go up again to cover the extra expense, like with the winter storm :mad:

The company that insures Oklahoma Gas & Electric is not going to be too happy to pay out this claim. Even if it gets settled out of court, the payout will be tens of millions of dollars.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2023/10/12/oge-oklahoma-canton-apartments-fire-steelyard-apartments-fire-unlicensed-electricians/71067521007/

Probably non union electricians.

Ope watch out, I'm sure our electric bills will go up again to cover the extra expense, like with the winter storm :mad:

Funny you should post this today. Just earlier today I received a notice that my averaged bill with OGE is actually going to be reduced about 10% this year because of fuel price reduction.

I hope 2024 brings great news regarding this property! Fingers crossed it'll be residential over retail.

I think residential and retail would both work! To valuable piece of land to sit idle and vacant.

I think residential and retail would both work! To valuable piece of land to sit idle and vacant.

Well, with it, unfortunately, tied up in litigation and insurance ,issues, it has no choice but to sit idle.

Well, with it, unfortunately, tied up in litigation and insurance ,issues, it has no choice but to sit idle.

Time is money! Hopefully, this can settle more quickly. Turtle thumping progress, lol.

Time is money! Hopefully, this can settle more quickly. Turtle thumping progress, lol.

Nothing quick about an insurance claim especially if there is pending litigation. Unfortunately it could sit empty for years.

In a statement to The Oklahoman, Humphreys Capital and Hines reported the two firms had hoped to begin demolition in March, but faced delays waiting for OG&E to remove transformers and equipment located next to the garage.

Check out this article from The Oklahoman:

Garage, last remnant of Canton Apartments, to be torn down but rebuilding is uncertain

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/06/24/canton-apartment-fire-okc-garage-set-to-be-torn-down/74156052007/

In a statement to The Oklahoman, Humphreys Capital and Hines reported the two firms had hoped to begin demolition in March, but faced delays waiting for OG&E to remove transformers and equipment located next to the garage.

Check out this article from The Oklahoman:

Garage, last remnant of Canton Apartments, to be torn down but rebuilding is uncertain

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/06/24/canton-apartment-fire-okc-garage-set-to-be-torn-down/74156052007/

For some reason I thought the garage escaped structural damage. Am I mistaken or are they just tearing it down to get rid of it?

I think current construction and debt costs, even with the higher rents this location would command, make this project hard to pencil without any kind of public assistance.

I thought the same, Jeep. Which should result in it being easier to pencil…

It seems that with the demolition of the garage, the two original developers are abandoning all hope in developing along their original plan.

Story also says they will create a lawn.

My sense is they are going to sit on this property while the lawsuit plays out, then probably sell it.

Sad. But this area needs a mixed-use development, not just apartments. Hines has done so much better than this, so am empty lot is almost better.

Hopefully it gets litigated reasonably quickly, so the next steps can take place.

Sad. But this area needs a mixed-use development, not just apartments. Hines has done so much better than this, so am empty lot is almost better.

Hopefully it gets litigated reasonably quickly, so the next steps can take place.

Unlikely, given that the Steelyard lawsuit from 2018 is still ongoing.

Wow. Such a lost opportunity. Almost tragic.

Maybe after they sell it someone will come in and develop it into a mixed use with more emphasis on retail. I doubt we see another gigantic apartment complex here, ever. Hopefully I'm wrong.

A big field for the next decade would be bummer.

The original plan with retail running through it was a ton better than what this turned into. Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise.

The original plan with retail running through it was a ton better than what this turned into. Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise.I totally agree with you there!

The original plan with retail running through it was a ton better than what this turned into. Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise.

From your lips to God’s ears. Hines and Humphreys are certainly capable of so much better.

A mini Oak development would be cool. A combo boutique hotel with a few floors of Apartments. A total of 4 stories hotel/residential building. Including an open plaza with retail restaurants.

A mini Oak development would be cool. A combo boutique hotel with a few floors of Apartments. A total of 4 stories hotel/residential building. Including an open plaza with retail restaurants.

Wasn't something like this proposed for this area at one point?

I have no inside knowledge, but this makes me think the unneeded and unsecured parking garage would need to be lit, fenced and possibly patrolled by security to maintain safety for the neighboring property owners. Squatters, skateboarders and improved property taxes and insurance can be a steady drain on the checking account of the owners. Especially if you add in the possibility that the garage might have gotten so hot that getting an engineer to guarantee there is zero chance of failure might be difficult.

That makes sense, Dob. I’m sure I’m not alone in hoping this isn’t just another empty lot for half a decade, though.

It was similar. No Hotel tho.

I can think of multiple prime pieces of property in OKC that sat empty for most or all of the 45 or so years that I’ve been at least a part time resident of the metro. Five or ten years is a blip in the development world.

https://www.okctalk.com/blob:https://www.okctalk.com/8a2f40f2-3d9c-4744-a69f-382a48a21619https://www.okctalk.com/blob:https://www.okctalk.com/abe782fe-c2e6-4687-ab77-8c41652aace8

These plans from a few years ago show fewer apartments and some retail which now seems to be no longer part of the development plans.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ccresidences6.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ccresidences8.jpg

These were the initial conceptual plans.

I can't think of any other plot of land in this city would it be easier to live without a car. Hopefully some sort of housing happens here in the next 10 years.

I can't think of any other plot of land in this city would it be easier to live without a car. Hopefully some sort of housing happens here in the next 10 years.

Why do people not want cars? You are stuck in a small area unless you pay someone to take you somewhere else.
(I really thought I asked this earlier, but I guess I didn't verify the post went through.)

Why do people not want cars? You are stuck in a small area unless you pay someone to take you somewhere else.
(I really thought I asked this earlier, but I guess I didn't verify the post went through.)

I got rid of my car in 2017. I live 90% of my life within two square miles. I have no regrets. It’s been such a higher quality of life.

Even if most people still want to own a car and have the freedom to move around both locally and at distance, many still want to live somewhere where cars are truly optional. If your only choice to get around and live your life REQUIRES that you own a car, that’s the OPPOSITE of the freedom you believe cars represent.