Cool! Then, I'm guessing they aren't changing the plans any. If they don't have to rebuild the parking garage and stairwells, that'll help save some money

Only thing he changed was unit price. Up 21% btw

Any idea when they're expected to begin (re)construction?

Any idea when they're expected to begin (re)construction?

Circa 1865

Hey Pete, have you found out if and when they will begin construction on a new complex?

Hey Pete, have you found out if and when they will begin construction on a new complex?

I believe they are still working through the insurance issues, and that can take some time.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton052922a.jpg

Any word on whether or not the garage is going to be salvaged? Can't say I'd feel amazing about parking in there if it is, tbh, but then again I'm not the one deciding.

Since the garage hasn't been demolished, I suspect it will stay.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton110721a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton110721b.jpg

So incredibly sad when this was just a stones throw from opening.

I wish they could look again at adding retail to the ground floor. That would make this a game-changer, to the nth degree.

I wish they could look again at adding retail to the ground floor. That would make this a game-changer, to the nth degree.
Yeah same here. If they could take another look and do it differently rather than some giant, monolithic block, it would be much better. Maybe build a pedestrian Paseo running through the middle of it.

Since Washington Prime sold them that land, there may be covenants preventing them from anything other than apartments.

I'm sure they don't want to compete with them for retail/restaurant tenants.

WP still owns the land along 63rd and that will be commercial use. Also the lot directly north of Whole Foods.

Wouldn’t it add more business to the area though and not necessarily compete?

That's unfortunate. Hopefully no one was hurt.

https://www.okc.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/28920?fbclid=IwAR03EduJcHBtw4pk6Dd2sD1Z26yVi56vzlf QA6tvjQHFd6V_ZiCQfbsGFeg Oklahoma City Fire Department has released their report on the fire. The cause was determined to be electrical in nature, and there were a number of fires that broke out in the building. Now that the report has been released, hopefully we'll find out within a few months how this will progress.

There is a concern going around that the rebuild cost is prohibitive, and they will not be able to continue.

There is a concern going around that the rebuild cost is prohibitive, and they will not be able to continue.

It's Hines, one of the biggest developers in the world.

I think they'll be able to find the money.

It's Hines, one of the biggest developers in the world.

I think they'll be able to find the money.

Please forgive my poor choice of words. No doubt Hines has the financial ability to rebuild. The question is whether the current market conditions support a rebuild.

Please forgive my poor choice of words. No doubt Hines has the financial ability to rebuild. The question is whether the current market conditions support a rebuild.

If not, Hines won't just sit on it. They will develop it into something the market will support. But there is still a demand for high-end apartments like these, especially in that area.

Please forgive my poor choice of words. No doubt Hines has the financial ability to rebuild. The question is whether the current market conditions support a rebuild.

The housing market has never been tighter.

I have no reason to believe they won't rebuild as quickly as they can.

I understand insurance BS is going on, but I do wish they would clear the debris from the site. For the first few months after it burned, the nearby creek would was a strange color after a rain storm. Not 100% sure if it was related, but having the rain wash over the burned out debris and in to the watershed is probably not desirable.

There is a concern going around that the rebuild cost is prohibitive, and they will not be able to continue.

Is this concern being issued by the people who claimed the Canton hadn't signed any leases prior to the fire? I never bought that for a second. These large-scale apartment properties lease up almost immediately after opening.

There's still not enough supply to satiate demand for quality apartments in OKC.

Is this concern being issued by the people who claimed the Canton hadn't signed any leases prior to the fire? I never bought that for a second. These large-scale apartment properties lease up almost immediately after opening.

There's still not enough supply to satiate demand for quality apartments in OKC.

Heh heh...no.

I'm not in real estate or construction. But I am old and a life-long north sider, who is in a "carriage trade" that has allowed me to know and talk to developers, etc on a regular basis.

The concern I'm hearing is that large projects that were in motion pre-pandemic, but not deeply involved in construction, are seeing real challenges to their ability to move forward. Higher interest rates and inflation are leading to project cost increases of 20% and more. This makes them need to "value engineer' some areas, but, that can cause them to lose financing from some sources. Some guys are looking at having to take on a partner who is ultimately going to take the original developer out of the project all together, or greatly reduce their equity. Bitter pill for some of these guys who are in their 50s or older, and were looking for these projects to be their big score in life.

I wish I were smarter about linking stories and highlighting. I read the Blair Humphreys press release in the Oklahoman regarding the fire department report. He said they gonna finish clean up, now that they can, and then Humphreys and their partners will begin the complex process of determining the best path forward for this prime real estate. Rebuilding, or any other plan, was not mentioned,

^

Just to be clear, Hines is the developer and Humphreys Capital is an investor; and there are multiple investors in Humphreys Capital's share.

Blair told me the big decisions will be made by HInes.

The location is prime and new class A apartment properties cannabalize from older properties anyway. This will still be a good income property. Would be shocked to see it developed as anything but apartments. If Hines is in trouble for capital then the US is in for a huge recession or depression and the property won’t be developed for many yrs unless it’s more strip retail.

There is a concern going around that the rebuild cost is prohibitive, and they will not be able to continue.

This is just completely wrong. They already own the land so you’re probably looking at $150k-$170k per unit to build them and they’ll be easily worth $210k a unit once stabilized. Now they might not rebuild for other reasons but it won’t be cost. There’s class A apartments being built all over town.

This is just completely wrong. They already own the land so you’re probably looking at $150k-$170k per unit to build them and they’ll be easily worth $210k a unit once stabilized. Now they might not rebuild for other reasons but it won’t be cost. There’s class A apartments being built all over town.

I would say closer to $230k per unit to build these. Costs have gone up dramatically in the past year.

I would say closer to $230k per unit to build these. Costs have gone up dramatically in the past year.

I’m sure insurance was at replacement cost, surely? I don’t know much about commercial property insurance however.

Is this concern being issued by the people who claimed the Canton hadn't signed any leases prior to the fire? I never bought that for a second. These large-scale apartment properties lease up almost immediately after opening.

There's still not enough supply to satiate demand for quality apartments in OKC.

Ok so channel 9 and 25(citing Greystar the leasing company) said only 12 pre leases prior to the fire. Was there ever official change of that info?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/okcfox.com/amp/news/local/canton-curve-apartment-fire-investigation-ongoing

^

That was very misleading. They weren't even open yet.

No question that they would have had that place full in no time.

Twelve pre-leased units at a property that couldn’t even be shown yet actually sounds pretty strong to me.

I was told they are still working through the insurance issues and no decisions have been made about rebuilding, whether it be the exact same plan or slightly different.

They don't even know if they can use the foundation and parking garage, or if one or both will have to be completely removed.

https://www.okc.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/28920?fbclid=IwAR03EduJcHBtw4pk6Dd2sD1Z26yVi56vzlf QA6tvjQHFd6V_ZiCQfbsGFeg Oklahoma City Fire Department has released their report on the fire. The cause was determined to be electrical in nature, and there were a number of fires that broke out in the building. Now that the report has been released, hopefully we'll find out within a few months how this will progress.

Electrically energized neutral. Whoops!

Did OGE turn the power on that night?

So who takes the blame? The electrical contractor? OG&E? The city?

Blame is a matter for the insurance company.

They still have to settle with the developers and then they can try to recoup some of the cost if they think there is a legal path to doing so.

I was told they are still working through the insurance issues and no decisions have been made about rebuilding, whether it be the exact same plan or slightly different.

They don't even know if they can use the foundation and parking garage, or if one or both will have to be completely removed.

They are going to rebuild and they are going to reuse all the remaining structures. The city is also keeping the existing permits since they were never finaled.

I like the sound of that, though I would like it even more if it was verifiable.

I like the sound of that, though I would like it even more if it was verifiable.

But it's in their name: "IKnowThings"...

They are going to rebuild and they are going to reuse all the remaining structures. The city is also keeping the existing permits since they were never finaled.

Best username ever!

Best username ever!

Does he drink and know things?

http://https://kfor.com/news/local/unused-items-from-the-canton-at-classen-curve-available-for-auction/

Does this mean they’re not planning to rebuild?

Just traded texts with Blair Humphreys.

The auction will have no impact on future plans. It's necessary as part of the insurance settlement process.

He also said no final decision has been made regarding the rebuild plans. But added that there would be efficiencies in reusing the design and engineering work.


Sounds like the parking garage will stay.

From news 9:


The Canton Apartment developers said the statement they sent News 9 in the summer still stands.

“Humphreys Capital and our trusted development partners are beginning the complex process of evaluating our options for this prime location.”

- https://www.news9.com/story/6387eb1f4505e1072be1854e/items-unused-in-wake-of-canton-apt-fire-up-for-auction

They've cleared the foundations and all the plumbing and also cleaned/covered the scorch marks on the parking garage:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton012223a.jpg

I wonder when we'll hear updates on this project?

$60 million lawsuit filed against OG&E for apartment fire (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=971-60-million-lawsuit-filed-against-OG-E-for-apartment-fire)

Following an intense fire, the owners of a large apartment complex and its insurance companies have filed a $60 million lawsuit against OG&E and its subcontractor.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton071323a.jpg


The fire erupted in the early evening hours of February 2nd, 2022 at The Canton apartments at Classen Curve. The large complex near NW 63rd and Western was nearing completion and was pre-leasing units.

By the following morning, the building was a total loss apart from a concrete parking structure. The fire had been so intense it caused the closing of the neighboring Ellison Hotell which required cleanup from the extensive smoke.

Other than cleanup, nothing has happened at the site since.

On Wednesday, the owners and their insurance company filed a $60 million lawsuit against OG&E and its subcontractor, Red Dirt Electric based in Kingfisher.

The lawsuit claims gross negligence in failing to properly connect power to the building on behalf of both OG&E and Red Dirt.

It also claims that a post-fire investigation identified that the fire originated in several areas inside the attic space as a result of an electrical fault. It goes on to claim that a hot conductor was connected to the building's neutral conductors.

OG&E and Red Dirt have yet to file a response to the lawsuit.

The Canton was to be a five-story, 325-unit luxury apartment complex with two interior courtyards and a structured parking garage.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton071323b.jpg


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http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton071323d.jpeg


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http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton071323f.jpeg

I hope this gets figured out soon. That is such a prime piece of land.

Probably won't be figured out soon.

Lawsuit was probably necessary to trigger the bonding and insurance on OG&E and Red Dirt.

I hope this gets figured out soon. That is such a prime piece of land.

$60 million lawsuit means this will almost certainly not be figured out soon.

Imagine being one of the guys who wired this complex. I wonder where they are today.

So did OGE turn the power on remotely that evening and things started arching all throughout the attic? I guess someone turned some circuit on. Imagine being that guy.

Once again, OKC Talk publishes the story hours before the Oklahoman and the Oklahoman offers no attribution.

This is a sure sign they won't be rebuilding any time soon. Lawsuits can take years, unless they settle.

This is a sure sign they won't be rebuilding any time soon. Lawsuits can take years, unless they settle.

This is probably an ignorant question, but what keeps them from rebuilding now? They own the land and if their insurance has already paid out, what's stopping them from beginning construction again if they wanted to?

^
Because they need electricity, and I am sure OG&E covers the area. And with a pending lawsuit, they will probably never do business with OG&E again.

This is probably an ignorant question, but what keeps them from rebuilding now? They own the land and if their insurance has already paid out, what's stopping them from beginning construction again if they wanted to?

It's likely the insurance company is actually behind the lawsuit.

^
Because they need electricity, and I am sure OG&E covers the area. And with a pending lawsuit, they will probably never can do business with OG&E again.

That simply doesn't compute - if they need electricity, they pretty much *will* have to work with OG&E, unless they make their entire operation self-sustainable through wind or solar, and even then they'd probably *still* have to work with OG&E. With the monopoly they have, everybody in OKC has to work with OG&E.

^
That's my point, they probably won't rebuild. If they got the insurance payout and win the lawsuit, they have no loss. They can sell the land and move on.

I don't think there is any "Bad Blood" with OG&E in this. It is a business dispute that has to go through the legal process to get settled. Dollar amounts that would destroy our souls if we were involved are a part of the normal course of business. They need clear legal judgements in order to put this behind them and move on.

Also, I think the issue with rebuilding has been how to proceed with a project that is probably 40% more expensive than it was when they started 5-7 years ago.

I think too many on here think all business dealings are personal and businesses are way more petty than they are. This will run its course and OGE and the developers will gladly work together just fine. The sub contractor, if found culpable likely will not survive , or at least not a part of the future with either OGE or the developer.