A similar fire at a Houst Apartment complex under construction back in 2020
https://www.fox26houston.com/news/massive-fire-burns-apartment-complex-under-construction-in-west-harris-co

Was this arson?

It could have been that or a number of things. I'm betting on a number of things. Unfortunate nonetheless, but they have insurance. It's just gonna take forever for the investigation and payout before anything can move forward.

It's my hope that they can adjust with this new sight and rebuild right, so that if this scenario happens with actual tenants, it won't happen in the same manner.

From what I heard on the news last night, the roof collapsed from the water weight, which caused the fire to spread rapidly. I don't think a fire wall would have helped much in this situation, unfortunately.

This seems inexcusable... a while I realize a fire hose puts out a large amount of water, the weight of the water from a torrential downpour covering EVERY square inch of the roof would almost certainly be more. The water & weight from the firehouse should drain off in the same manner a thunderstorm would. This project should not be allowed to be rebuilt exactly as-is IMHO. Design considerations for fire safety & firefighter access should be taken in to account... god forbid hundreds of families were living here at the time.

I would suggest it seems inaccurate. TV news “event” coverage, such as this, requires a higher volume of talk to accompany the riveting video. Complex issues don’t get the time on air or depth of verification they should. The water added weight to a fire damaged structure that would have held up otherwise.

Seems to me that the massive apartment fires we hear about are always at nearly completed buildings. I think a big factor is the sprinkler systems can’t be working until the risk of freezing is eliminated (via working HVAC, which appears to be about the last item done) . I don’t recall ever hearing about these type fires happening in occupied complexes.

I wonder if there were any variances granted on this design. My impression of this from a casual distance has been that it nothing more than cheap construction thrown up in haste to take advantage of the boom. Fire breaks will never work when not installed. How was it possible the fire suppression system was not charged on a structure due to open soon.

Saw flames coming out of the building second morning in a row coming over the overpass at Western and I-44. Pretty insane fire and do not remember the last time a fire like this happened in OKC (whatever that apt complex on n NW 10th excluded)

I wonder how much more expensive it will be to rebuild this next time.

https://www.news9.com/story/620490da3bd2af072a63122b/canton-apartments-were-set-to-be-luxury-living?fbclid=IwAR3_PJsAWOhxt_A28kdM15MwDNS-DdzUhhVUlprV54PM5W-GA-n4K49YQZg

News 9 is reporting that they were supposed to open March 1st, but only had 12 applications and no leases signed. Some folks in the comments are suspecting an inside arson job

With the booming real estate market right now and booming apartment sales, I find that hard to believe. No leases on 325 units, come on...

https://www.news9.com/story/620490da3bd2af072a63122b/canton-apartments-were-set-to-be-luxury-living?fbclid=IwAR3_PJsAWOhxt_A28kdM15MwDNS-DdzUhhVUlprV54PM5W-GA-n4K49YQZg

News 9 is reporting that they were supposed to open March 1st, but only had 12 applications and no leases signed. Some folks in the comments are suspecting an inside arson job

I think by folks you meant to say conspiracy theorists.

https://www.news9.com/story/620490da3bd2af072a63122b/canton-apartments-were-set-to-be-luxury-living?fbclid=IwAR3_PJsAWOhxt_A28kdM15MwDNS-DdzUhhVUlprV54PM5W-GA-n4K49YQZg

News 9 is reporting that they were supposed to open March 1st, but only had 12 applications and no leases signed. Some folks in the comments are suspecting an inside arson job
There’s no way this is accurate. I know of at least one person who had a move-in date.

Wow, I didn't realize they didn't really have anything in terms of leases in hand. Initially I would have thought it'd be sold up and ready, very hot! But yes, that makes me wonder now were they completely overpriced or what was wrong? Hmmmm, that does open up some questions.

https://www.news9.com/story/620490da3bd2af072a63122b/canton-apartments-were-set-to-be-luxury-living?fbclid=IwAR3_PJsAWOhxt_A28kdM15MwDNS-DdzUhhVUlprV54PM5W-GA-n4K49YQZg

News 9 is reporting that they were supposed to open March 1st, but only had 12 applications and no leases signed. Some folks in the comments are suspecting an inside arson job
Yeah I really find it hard to believe if they were opening on March first they didn’t have a single lease signed. This is a prime area that makes no sense.

I think by folks you meant to say conspiracy theorists.

I've seen similar takes circulating on Twitter suggesting it was arson to get the insurance payout, etc. It's not isolated, unfortunately.

There’s no way this is accurate. I know of at least one person who had a move-in date.

I know several people who had sent in applications, and others who were moving in in the next 2-3 weeks. Seems very hyperbolic.

It makes zero logical sense to think that this one very well located and nice development would not be able to sign leases when every other apartment complex in town is nearly full.

Especially because of the area and the almost complete lack of rental units.

I wonder if there were any variances granted on this design. My impression of this from a casual distance has been that it nothing more than cheap construction thrown up in haste to take advantage of the boom. Fire breaks will never work when not installed. How was it possible the fire suppression system was not charged on a structure due to open soon.

This was built slowly and openly on a busy, 4 lane road in one of the wealthiest areas of Oklahoma. Thousands of critical eyes have been looking at that site for a couple years. There is no way it was cheaply built with no fire breaks (if fire breaks were required).

https://www.news9.com/story/620490da3bd2af072a63122b/canton-apartments-were-set-to-be-luxury-living?fbclid=IwAR3_PJsAWOhxt_A28kdM15MwDNS-DdzUhhVUlprV54PM5W-GA-n4K49YQZg

News 9 is reporting that they were supposed to open March 1st, but only had 12 applications and no leases signed. Some folks in the comments are suspecting an inside arson job

No way March 1 was the opening date, the fire sprinkler system would be operational if that was the case.

https://journalrecord.com/2022/02/09/fire-strikes-as-demand-is-high-for-more-apartments/

“It’s such a sad thing. We need all the housing we can get from affordable to high-end,” he said.

A recent study by QuoteWizard showed Oklahoma City had the 10th-biggest decline in vacancies, dropping more than 51% from 2019 to 2021, while rent increased 5% during the same period.

"A Total Loss"
https://news.yahoo.com/total-loss-65-million-luxury-134720878.html

Not sure why developers call this complex, or the Bower, or Villa Teresa, etc. luxury. Those are just above average, and overpriced. I think luxury should look something like these new developments in Nashville: https://nashvillelifestyles.com/at-home/high-rises-downtown-nashville/

I know several people who had sent in applications, and others who were moving in in the next 2-3 weeks. Seems very hyperbolic.

My guess is that there are enough connected folks on this forum that can get to the bottom of this. I'm curious as to the sourcing of the television station story.

you should come out to LA and see some of the apartments labeled as luxury units

Most people calling this arson are your typical Facebook comments. They think it’s overpriced because they themselves don’t see value in the location, or wouldn’t want to pay the rents themselves or they don’t have income themselves to support that living but they fail to realize many actually do and choose to. The mentality of “I don’t” why wouldn’t anyone else has them all convinced these would sit empty and this had to be fraud.

Guess they haven’t seen the other apartments going up downtown or looked at those first national rent rates

They will all be shocked to see this rising from ground in about a year to only be rebuilt as is then open at some point in future with even higher rents.

Just my guess

It makes zero logical sense to think that this one very well located and nice development would not be able to sign leases when every other apartment complex in town is nearly full.

Especially because of the area and the almost complete lack of rental units.

I never believed this apartment complex would have success. I posted that opinion back in November of 2019 when it was announced. In my amateur opinion, the lack of rental units in the area computes well with the fact that its not a part of town that the renting demographic would want to be in. Statistics show that ~50% of the rental demographic are under 30 years old. U30 in OKC with the financial means to afford premium rents will want to be near downtown. If you have enough money to play and live in an around Classen Curve then you would also have enough money to simply go buy a house in the Village or other peripheral Nichols Hills area. In addition, Chesapeake is a shadow of what it once was. There's no longer hundreds of mid-twenties graduates clawing to live near the campus.

The only people that I can imagine would have rented here are recently divorced parents who have left the house/kids in Nichols Hills but want to stay close.

It's just a weird location for apartment living!

My money says this never gets re-built.

^

I could not disagree with you more.

When I was in my 20's I would have lived there in a heartbeat, and that was long before they added all the great places like Trader Joe's, Whole Foods and about 30 restaurants and bars, plus tons of great shopping.

Besides downtown, I would rate this location as the best in all of OKC for someone looking for an apartment. Chisholm Creek is now adding their second big complex and it doesn't have half of what this area offers. The similar apartments at University North Park in Norman also have a very high occupancy rate.

https://www.news9.com/story/620490da3bd2af072a63122b/canton-apartments-were-set-to-be-luxury-living?fbclid=IwAR3_PJsAWOhxt_A28kdM15MwDNS-DdzUhhVUlprV54PM5W-GA-n4K49YQZg

News 9 is reporting that they were supposed to open March 1st, but only had 12 applications and no leases signed. Some folks in the comments are suspecting an inside arson job

I always turn to the News 9 comments section for reliable information. :)

BTW, Hines is the primary developer for this project and they are truly a global behemoth with over $83 billion of real estate in their portfolio. They know what they are doing.

They paid $4 million for this site. There is no way they don't rebuild, especially at a time approaching all-time housing shortages.

I'm working on getting information about their pre-leasing. I'd be absolutely shocked if the Channel 9 reporting was accurate.

Some people are just unable to envision something that isn't there yet. There's no way that News 9 story about no leases is correct, and I am with Pete on this: once fully actualized, that area is going to be a very vibrant and convenient place to live.

As to eDark's comments: who says they were targeting 20-somethings as their primary resident? In other big cities, some people prefer to rent. If I lived alone, I may choose to rent. Pretty sure I would trade a big or even medium-sized house for a property where I could walk to Whole Foods, Flip's, Classen Curve, and Nichols Hills Plaza. Those kinds of amenities are very attractive to people in their thirties and up. Many more mature adults would prefer apartment living but wouldn't want to live in a building populated by young folks just graduating college, as many properties are in OKC.

Home ownership is great, and I am a proud home owner, but keeping up a home is expensive. Even well-built homes require maintenance, plumbing repairs, interior and exterior painting, roofing, heat and air maintenance, etc. That's without mentioning lawn work. I live in a dual income household in which both parties are gainfully employed and we spend a lot of money on this, which in our case, also includes pool maintenance.

Then you have costs for insurance and so much more. Utilities in a house are usually way more expensive than in an apartment or condo, too. In our case, our mortgage payment is probably comparable to a one-bedroom unit, but when you add in all of the other costs, it is significantly more monthly outlay.

Many couples or singles of virtually any age prefer to have the amenities a property like the Canton offers without the headaches of ownership. For most Americans, their home is their primary investment vehicle. But in big cities across America people rent and make other investments to build wealth.

The article I read stated that these have been under construction for two years, which is less time than I remember. My guess is they will move as quickly as possible to get the demolition done, get structural engineers to look at the garage and whether it can be saved, and get these back under construction. That they have a local partner like Humphreys gives me more confidence that this will be a momentary hiccup.

^

I could not disagree with you more.

When I was in my 20's I would have lived there in a heartbeat, and that was long before they added all the great places like Trader Joe's, Whole Foods and about 30 restaurants and bars, plus tons of great shopping.

Besides downtown, I would rate this location as the best in all of OKC for someone looking for an apartment. Chisholm Creek is now adding their second big complex and it doesn't have half of what this area offers. The similar apartments at University North Park in Norman also have a very high occupancy rate.

all of this plus this is min from downtown ...

also compare living in this location to " the Lincoln at central park" (which is always full) the idea this wouldn't do well is crazy ..

^

I could not disagree with you more.

When I was in my 20's I would have lived there in a heartbeat, and that was long before they added all the great places like Trader Joe's, Whole Foods and about 30 restaurants and bars, plus tons of great shopping.

Besides downtown, I would rate this location as the best in all of OKC for someone looking for an apartment. Chisholm Creek is now adding their second big complex and it doesn't have half of what this area offers. The similar apartments at University North Park in Norman also have a very high occupancy rate.

Definitely. Plus, while it may be many years away (at best), this has consistently been listed as a commuter rail stop along any line straight into downtown. While downtown and the surrounding environs may be "hip", where else could you feasibly walk to bars, restaurants, gyms, and supermarkets (and potentially your job!), as well as potentially a rail stop straight into downtown? If I were in a different stage of my life I'd definitely consider renting in this area.

This area has always drawn people from all over the metro.

When I was in my 20's, we'd go to The Varsity (which was on the site of these apartments) and before that it was the very popular Michael's Plum. We'd also go to the T-Bar and Mamasitas. I spent more time in this area than anywhere else and that was a long time before Classen Curve and all the other great places.

I remember almost renting a townhouse just north of 6100 Grand.

And there are reasons 6100 Grand within a stone's throw is selling its units for over $1 million; and now getting ready to start on the remaining phases. Also why the homes directly to the south are being demolished and replaced with 2-on-the-lot homes selling around $800K.

It's arguably the best location in all of OKC, including downtown.

17340Agree with Pete, the area is fantastic and visibly advancing. My main contention in the whole thing is that it felt like 5 stories of matchsticks, no way to build quality IMO. Also, while initially went down the arson path, if the ownership is as advertised 66M is a rounding error.1734017340 I'm1734017340

I'd be absolutely shocked if the Channel 9 reporting was accurate.

this could be an axiom you could live by

The real question will be if the garage and foundation can be salvaged, or if they have to rip everything up and restart from the beginning.

Regardless, you can expect a significant downtime while all that is evaluated and they work through the insurance process.

And due to that time gap, you can be sure there will be tons more crazy rumors and uninformed opinions.

The real question will be if the garage and foundation can be salvaged, or if they have to rip everything up and restart from the beginning.

Regardless, you can expect a significant downtime while all that is evaluated and they work through the insurance process.

And due to that time gap, you can be sure there will be tons more crazy rumors and uninformed opinions.

we were just having this discussion at lunch today at my office. would repairs be faster if they could keep the garage and foundation, or would it actually be faster overall, if they just have to rip it all out and start from scratch. i don't know how much damage would be done and have to be repaired, etc, if they were able to keep that and have to reattach everything again

^

They will have to perform detailed evaluations to assess the garage and foundation.

But even though both are concrete, they also contain steel and in the case of the foundation, all types of plumbing and electrical conduit.

As fierce as that fire was, I'd be surprised if they'll be able to salvage anything. And the biggest bummer in all this is that this site will be a crater for some time before things start to move forward again.

Rebuilding with the original plan would surely save a bit of time. Would there be problems getting approval from the city?

Even with what will assuredly be a long delay, my money is still on this wreckage being cleaned up before the burned out church at 30th and Hudson.

.........When I was in my 20's, we'd go to The Varsity (which was on the site of these apartments) and before that it was the very popular Michael's Plum. We'd also go to the T-Bar and Mamasitas..........

I think I still have a matchbook from Michael's Plum around the house somewhere.

Even with what will assuredly be a long delay, my money is still on this wreckage being cleaned up before the burned out church at 30th and Hudson.

We desperately need someone to dispose of a “sex couch” on the site of this wreckage as well, that way it can be a true peer to that 30th & Hudson church.

My guess is that there are enough connected folks on this forum that can get to the bottom of this. I'm curious as to the sourcing of the television station story.

Autocorrect must have taken the reporter to a different website instead of okctalk.com. Rookie mistake.

I would suggest it seems inaccurate. TV news “event” coverage, such as this, requires a higher volume of talk to accompany the riveting video. Complex issues don’t get the time on air or depth of verification they should. The water added weight to a fire damaged structure that would have held up otherwise.

Seems to me that the massive apartment fires we hear about are always at nearly completed buildings. I think a big factor is the sprinkler systems can’t be working until the risk of freezing is eliminated (via working HVAC, which appears to be about the last item done) . I don’t recall ever hearing about these type fires happening in occupied complexes.

Yeah, the weight of the water had little to do with the roof collapsing.

And pretty good chance one of those AC units started the fire. I mean there was not a lot up there on the roof besides those units.

...

As to eDark's comments: who says they were targeting 20-somethings as their primary resident? In other big cities, some people prefer to rent. If I lived alone, I may choose to rent. Pretty sure I would trade a big or even medium-sized house for a property where I could walk to Whole Foods, Flip's, Classen Curve, and Nichols Hills Plaza. Those kinds of amenities are very attractive to people in their thirties and up. Many more mature adults would prefer apartment living but wouldn't want to live in a building populated by young folks just graduating college, as many properties are in OKC.

...

I agree with you. If the target renter is 40+ years and up, then this is a fantastic spot for apartments. I would never suggest that the Whole Foods and other surrounding services are anything less than stellar. And if that was the Canton's objective then I'm surprised we are seeing reports that it wasn't receiving significant interest from renters to be.

Statistics do show that renters, especially apartment renters, skew young - and I'm not just pulling that out of a hat to be argumentative. And please know, I'm not a real estate developer and I don't claim to be anything more than someone with an uneducated opinion!

My belief is that most renters in OKC skew towards young millennials and gen Z folks. Unlike larger metros, the cost of living is cheap here and the barrier to become a home owner is low. Which would support the theory that apartment seekers in OKC are even younger than in other areas.

That generation just doesn't hang out in the Nichols Hills area, of today. Anecdotally, the only time I see 25-year-olds out that way is shopping at LuluLemon. Even then, they're probably only there to return an item that didn't fit - as they order everything online.

I keep seeing comments from other posters of how great this area was and all these cool former bars. It's not that anymore. If you're under 30, the hangout is uptown, midtown, plaza, paseo, bricktown, Western (kinda), Chisolm, Edmond main street, etc. Those densely packed areas with amazing food and beverage options didn't exist back in the 80s and 90s when you were bar crawling near Classen Curve.

Personally, I love getting dinner at Hutch or cocktails at The Ellison. I'm not suggesting there aren't plenty of options. Just that the options that are there are too pricey for young people and so young people didn't want to live a the Canton.

Again, I don't know jack I'm just hypothesizing here.

And the biggest bummer in all this is that this site will be a crater for some time before things start to move forward again.

At work it took us 18 months of mediation to resolve a 107K insurance claim on our roof. I can only imagine how long it might take to get checks cut on 60+ million...

...
That generation just doesn't hang out in the Nichols Hills area, of today. Anecdotally, the only time I see 25-year-olds out that way is shopping at LuluLemon. Even then, they're probably only there to return an item that didn't fit - as they order everything online.

...

Personally, I love getting dinner at Hutch or cocktails at The Ellison. I'm not suggesting there aren't plenty of options. Just that the options that are there are too pricey for young people and so young people didn't want to live a the Canton.

...

I don't think it would be considered part of Nichols Hills? My partner and I shop that area frequently and I don't think we have thought about it as Nichols Hills - idk though. I have only lived here like 3years now and am still learning what's around.

Also, that area is not too pricey for young professionals ... I would have considered that an ideal location when I was younger. It is one of the main areas I go to shop - I wish I lived closer to Whole Foods and Trader Joes. Then again, when I lived in Kansas City, I would go shopping at least once a week at the Plaza while living in Westport (where my rent was only like $150/mo cheaper than the Canton). Most of my peers lived either by the Plaza or in Power&Light - both of which have apartments in the same range as the Canton.

And the main reason we bought a house here is because most apartments are a pain when it comes to pets - with additional hundreds of dollars for a pet deposit and hundreds more for pet rent. One apartment that we looked at had a $1,000 pet deposit per pet. By the time it's done, I may as well buy a $350k house and pay my own utilities for the same monthly rate.

I don't think it would be considered part of Nichols Hills? My partner and I shop that area frequently and I don't think we have thought about it as Nichols Hills - idk though. I have only lived here like 3years now and am still learning what's around.

Also, that area is not too pricey for young professionals ... I would have considered that an ideal location when I was younger. It is one of the main areas I go to shop - I wish I lived closer to Whole Foods and Trader Joes. Then again, when I lived in Kansas City, I would go shopping at least once a week at the Plaza while living in Westport (where my rent was only like $150/mo cheaper than the Canton). Most of my peers lived either by the Plaza or in Power&Light - both of which have apartments in the same range as the Canton.

And the main reason we bought a house here is because most apartments are a pain when it comes to pets - with additional hundreds of dollars for a pet deposit and hundreds more for pet rent. One apartment that we looked at had a $1,000 pet deposit per pet. By the time it's done, I may as well buy a $350k house and pay my own utilities for the same monthly rate.

Definitely Nichols Hills area. It is the Golden Triangle-in the OKC limits and rules, while having NH snob appeal.

Definitely Nichols Hills area. It is the Golden Triangle-in the OKC limits and rules, while having NH snob appeal.

Glenbrook is not Nichols Hills.
Also love how you reduce everyone to your charachature. Not sure what is worse, a snob, or and anti with a chip on their shoulder. You should actually get to know people before you broadbrush with your rhetoric.

Lots of people love the area because it’s a nice area with nice amenities.

Glenbrook is not Nichols Hills.
Also love how you reduce everyone to your charachature. Not sure what is worse, a snob, or and anti with a chip on their shoulder. You should actually get to know people before you broadbrush with your rhetoric.

Lots of people love the area because it’s a nice area with nice amenities.

I think he meant that some parts of Glenbrook have Nichols Hills addresses but all of them have OKC utilities and mill rates. And that’s actually not a bad thing. I’ve heard NH got absolutely fleeced in its last negotiation with the utility companies.

I agree with you. If the target renter is 40+ years and up, then this is a fantastic spot for apartments. I would never suggest that the Whole Foods and other surrounding services are anything less than stellar. And if that was the Canton's objective then I'm surprised we are seeing reports that it wasn't receiving significant interest from renters to be.

Statistics do show that renters, especially apartment renters, skew young - and I'm not just pulling that out of a hat to be argumentative. And please know, I'm not a real estate developer and I don't claim to be anything more than someone with an uneducated opinion!

My belief is that most renters in OKC skew towards young millennials and gen Z folks. Unlike larger metros, the cost of living is cheap here and the barrier to become a home owner is low. Which would support the theory that apartment seekers in OKC are even younger than in other areas.

That generation just doesn't hang out in the Nichols Hills area, of today. Anecdotally, the only time I see 25-year-olds out that way is shopping at LuluLemon. Even then, they're probably only there to return an item that didn't fit - as they order everything online.

I keep seeing comments from other posters of how great this area was and all these cool former bars. It's not that anymore. If you're under 30, the hangout is uptown, midtown, plaza, paseo, bricktown, Western (kinda), Chisolm, Edmond main street, etc. Those densely packed areas with amazing food and beverage options didn't exist back in the 80s and 90s when you were bar crawling near Classen Curve.

Personally, I love getting dinner at Hutch or cocktails at The Ellison. I'm not suggesting there aren't plenty of options. Just that the options that are there are too pricey for young people and so young people didn't want to live a the Canton.

Again, I don't know jack I'm just hypothesizing here.

I have friends in their early 20s to mid 30s who were all quick to sign a lease here as soon as they were able to. It sounds like you live in a little bit of a bubble, this area is frequented and heavily desired by all age groups.

I have friends in their early 20s to mid 30s who were all quick to sign a lease here as soon as they were able to. It sounds like you live in a little bit of a bubble, this area is frequented and heavily desired by all age groups.

I do live in a bubble. Plus, I'm in my mid thirties in a duel-income w/ kids situation so I'm not the target audience for The Canton, anyhow. We like that area, for what it's worth.

I have friends in their early 20s to mid 30s who were all quick to sign a lease here as soon as they were able to. It sounds like you live in a little bit of a bubble, this area is frequented and heavily desired by all age groups.

I thought the statement from the apartment group said that no leases had been signed yet?

I do live in a bubble. Plus, I'm in my mid thirties in a duel-income w/ kids situation so I'm not the target audience for The Canton, anyhow. We like that area, for what it's worth.
Duel-income? Fighting over money is rough.

Glenbrook is not Nichols Hills.
Also love how you reduce everyone to your charachature. Not sure what is worse, a snob, or and anti with a chip on their shoulder. You should actually get to know people before you broadbrush with your rhetoric.

Lots of people love the area because it’s a nice area with nice amenities.

Maybe it was late when you read my comment? I'm the biggest NH cheerleader on earth. I've spent all my 60 plus years in the area. I suggested Glenbrook to a good friend last week who is thinking about leaving the Gaillardia home they built 20 plus years ago. A friend since junior high moved there a couple years ago because he was tired of the traffic on Avondale. Another friend built there last year and moved from Crown Heights. It is a great enclave.

But...Classen Curve was developed to be marketed as Nichols Hills area. Like all areas surrounding NH, it is being enhanced by the growing number of people who want to be in and near the wonderful, but land locked city.

This is from oklip955:

I will answer you on this (post 183)First, I am a retired firefighter from a metro area dept who workd as a fire apparatus driver for 27 yrs. (that means I fought fire and drove big red trucks including ladder trucks so I feel I can speak a bit about this. I also have my BS degree in Fire Protection and Safety). When we respond to a structure fire, we first try to attack the fire from the interior and search the building for any persons still inside. Our first priority is to saves lives then property. When conditions deteriorate, or the fire has already progressed beyond what is considered safe for interior crews, they exit the structure and the fire is then fought from the exterior. Many times the fire is already at a point where the structural integrity has been compromised to the point when it is unsafe for interior firefighting operations. One of the problems with multistory structures is the ability to quickly place fire attack lines into operation. A building built mainly of wood presents a huge load of combustible materials. Ie things that burn and burn quickly. A residential structure like this is built with a fire sprinkler system to slow or stop the spread if a fire does occur. The goal is also to provide for life safety of the occupants. This type of construction is a real challenge to fight especially when the sprinkler system is not operational which happens during the construction phase. These buildings are also equipped with a standpipe systems. Its basically a large diameter pipe for use during firefighting operations for firefighters to pump water to at a connection outside the structure that goes up to each floor. Firefighters then can hook up their hoses to the connections. If this system is not working then firefighters must drag heavy, large diameter hoses up the stairwell to supply smaller hand firefighting lines. You have to understand that firefighters wear, heavy bunker gear (protective clothing) and breathing apparatus. A fully outfitted firefighter’s gear can weigh 50lbs or so depending on brand of equipment, size of firefighter etc. and this is in addition to any hose or other equipment they are carrying or working with. It takes time to set up firefighting operations on a multistory building especially one without a working standpipe. During this time the fire continues to build.

As the fire grows, so does the amount of water needed to control the fire. When the determination is made to fight the fire from the exterior then huge quantities of water are need. The goal is no longer to save the building but to prevent spread to other surrounding structures. Ladder trucks with prepiped arial firefighting nozzles and other large flow nozzles are used. The capacity of these are generally around 1000 gal per min. each, and many times with multiple fire streams in operation at the same time. That’s a lot of water and a lot of weight. (water weighs 8.3 lbs per gal). We have to worry about structural collapse either from the fire weakening the structure or from the weight of the water being applied. Building are not designed to handle the flow from large exterior high flow operations because at this point the building already compromised by the fire. Its just not possible to design for this. The building is already gone or soon will be. The goal at this point to prevent spread to other structures as well as life safety in the area around the structure. These operations involve long periods of time on large structures. I hope this post will bring some understanding to what went on and why its done. I just want explain a bit about firefighting operations so that you can understand a bit about this fire. I was not there nor have I talked with anyone who has. My explanations is generalities of firefighting operations. And no I was not on Oklahoma City but a suburban fire dept and am now retired.

that is some great detail there. my biggest takeaway was the flow rate from the ladder truck... 1000 gal/min with water weighing 8.3 gal/lb... that's delivering 8300lbs/min! crazy!

It makes zero logical sense to think that this one very well located and nice development would not be able to sign leases when every other apartment complex in town is nearly full.

Especially because of the area and the almost complete lack of rental units.

It's all insurance/loss posturing. Leaks from one side trying to maximize loss, leaks from the other trying to minimize it.

This seems inexcusable... a while I realize a fire hose puts out a large amount of water, the weight of the water from a torrential downpour covering EVERY square inch of the roof would almost certainly be more. The water & weight from the firehouse should drain off in the same manner a thunderstorm would. This project should not be allowed to be rebuilt exactly as-is IMHO. Design considerations for fire safety & firefighter access should be taken in to account... god forbid hundreds of families were living here at the time.

Keep in mind you're leaving out the fire.

The roof collapsed because of fire + water. Fire weakened it, water weight finished the job.

The engineering behind it only accounts for fire + water = can stand for XXXX amount of time to get people out.

You can't build things so they don't collapse when they catch on fire.

Keep in mind you're leaving out the fire.

The roof collapsed because of fire + water. Fire weakened it, water weight finished the job.

The engineering behind it only accounts for fire + water = can stand for XXXX amount of time to get people out.

You can't build things so they don't collapse when they catch on fire.

An occupied building also has an internal fire suppression system. This was unoccupied and not yet functioning.

Also, you can design building to not collapse, but would be concrete construction with great fire breaks. But, cost would be much more expensive. Most on here already cry about the high prices of rents and don't seem willing to pay for the extra safety.

In reality, even this building stayed structurally in tact for quite awhile. Had there been residents, they should have had plenty of time to escape. There were only 5 floors, so it isn't like they would have had to escape down 30-40 floors of a burning building.

Keep in mind that is not the first time a building like this burned in the same manor. I have not been keeping track but I do remember others on some of my fire service news reports of similar sized or larger apartment complexes in other parts of the country experiencing similar outcomes. If memory serves me correct, I think there was another as large or larger complex that burned within the last year or two in the Dallas area. I would have to go back and research the information. Also in Edmond we had a similar apartment building with similar type of construction burn a few years ago. I happened to be in the area and did watch that one That one was at about the same point of completion.