Well, looks like they will delay opening for a while.

A friend just sent me this. The fire seems to be completely out of control.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020822a.jpg

A friend just sent me this. The fire seems to be completely out of control.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020822a.jpg

5 floors of stick build…gives lots of fuel to the fire.
Wonder if the sprinkler system was yet to be turned on.

From all accounts, this could be a complete loss.

Wouldn't be surprised if they have to tear it down and start over. Perhaps they'll be able to save the concrete parking structure.

Was just told they are having to let the fire burn and are concentrating on protecting the surrounding buildings (The Ellison, the bank on the corner, Whole Foods, Torchy's, etc.).

I'm all the way downtown and the air is thick with smoke from this fire. Really reeks.

I drove to NW 63rd and Grand and got to see the towering inferno before turning into Nichols Hills. It looks like every light and siren emergency vehicle within 20 miles is there.

Listening to the incident on the scanner radio app, it sounds like the fire has gotten into another building

Facing south from Starbucks:
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I'm all the way downtown and the air is thick with smoke from this fire. Really reeks.

Came here to say this

Seeing aerial photographs, hard to imagine this not being a total loss.

Big chunks of the building have collapsed and everything else is either charred or filled with water.

I’m at Whole Foods. This is completely insane. Never have seen a fire like this in OKC

I’m at Whole Foods. This is completely insane. Never have seen a fire like this in OKC

Reminds me of the Covell village apartment fire in north edmond about 12 years ago. It was similar situation with apartments being built and not yet complete of large scale single building like this. Entire complex went up into flames and was total loss and later rebuilt.

It's a Total loss. All of it. Doesn't look like they will be able to save any of it.

This is crazy...

It's a Total loss. All of it. Doesn't look like they will be able to save any of it.

Yea the amount of water being poured on this plus the smoke damage. It’s all a loss. The garage will be fine given it’s a concrete structure but I wouldn’t be shocked if it also comes down in case there was any weakness/structural damage to it

Retired firefighter here. Its toast. They are in defensive mode that means surround and drown the fire. Basically keep it from spreading and just drown it. Its toast. When the fire is attacked from outside the building its to prevent spread to other structures you have written the building off. Risk alot to save alot. Risk a little to save a little. If the building is beyond saving you dont risk firefighter lives by going inside. ok by 2 cent post on firefighter safety.

Bright side, it was not yet occupied so no one lost their home or life.

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It is good no one was living there, and lost their valuables,.or worse their life. The building can be rebuilt, but lives can't be. I just hope they decide to rebuild this, as it was a high-quality development in a burgeoning area.

It is good no one was living there, and lost their valuables,.or worse their life. The building can be rebuilt, but lives can't be. I just hope they decide to rebuild this, as it was a high-quality development in a burgeoning area.

Agree, to think if it was filled with residents and all the things inside to burn as well, just horrible to think about the possibility of lives lost. Just watching this literally burn itself out is bizarre, how fast it went up.

https://twitter.com/OKCFD/status/1491237688191578113?t=ofoqSQBzLtRpbFjwvNbYEA&s=19

Wood frame construction, the building should have fire sprinklers. My question is was the system in operational or was it down for some reason. Also what was the cause that allowed the fire to get a foot hold? Any penetrations through firewalls etc. that should not have been there? Lots of questions which hopefully will be answered in the future. The public might not see but will be published in fire service magazines.

I’m at Whole Foods. This is completely insane. Never have seen a fire like this in OKC

Agree. There may have been worse fires in OKC but I don't recall anything like this since the Murrah bombing.

Thank God people were not in there, but it's still just a major bummer. There have already been years of construction to get to this point, so close to opening, and now who knows what will happen with the property now?

1. There will be lawsuits and insurance settlements to sort out. That could take a long, long time.

2. The roofing material used appeared impervious to water; it simply could not be extinguished. What material was this? News 9 referred to it as a rubberized material. Whatever it is / was, it acted like a flame accelerant. No bueno. One wonders how many buildings feature this roofing material across the US right now! One also imagines it will quickly fall out of favor.

3. Even if the building had an active sprinkler system, it doesn't seem like it would have done any good with the roof just continuing to ignite over and over and over.

4. What was on the cusp of being a fully actualized, vibrant corridor is now going to take a major step back now. There will be a massive smoking crater in that huge space for quite a while.

Question for Pete and others in the know: was this the biggest of all the recent apartment developments? It just looks huge from the aerial view.

Just a total bummer.

Agree. There may have been worse fires in OKC but I don't recall anything like this since the Murrah bombing.

Thank God people were not in there, but it's still just a major bummer. There have already been years of construction to get to this point, so close to opening, and now who knows what will happen with the property now?

1. There will be lawsuits and insurance settlements to sort out. That could take a long, long time.

2. The roofing material used appeared impervious to water; it simply could not be extinguished. What material was this? News 9 referred to it as a rubberized material. Whatever it is / was, it acted like a flame accelerant. No bueno. One wonders how many buildings feature this roofing material across the US right now! One also imagines it will quickly fall out of favor.

3. Even if the building had an active sprinkler system, it doesn't seem like it would have done any good with the roof just continuing to ignite over and over and over.

4. What was on the cusp of being a fully actualized, vibrant corridor is now going to take a major step back now. There will be a massive smoking crater in that huge space for quite a while.

Question for Pete and others in the know: was this the biggest of all the recent apartment developments? It just looks huge from the aerial view.

Just a total bummer.

I’m guessing the sprinkler system wasn’t active yet…seems pretty unlikely it would burn out of control if it was. I don’t think the roofing was any different than anything used on other similar apartment buildings…would imagine it was doing its job but it’s hard to put out a fire in a large commercial building if the sprinklers aren’t running.

I’m guessing the sprinkler system wasn’t active yet…seems pretty unlikely it would burn out of control if it was. I don’t think the roofing was any different than anything used on other similar apartment buildings…would imagine it was doing its job but it’s hard to put out a fire in a large commercial building if the sprinklers aren’t running.

The fire official was quoted as saying that the flames on the material were not going out no matter how much water they put on it. It was also referred to as a rubberized material. Flames just continuing to reignite in sections that already burned, regardless how much water was put on it, was demonstrated by the news coverage. Maybe the sprinklers would have limited the fire to the roof and the top floor but there was no putting that roof out tonight, and you are correct, the sprinklers were not active.

Did the fire start at the Torchy’s?

It's still burning, they are just waiting for it to burn out and collapse, just heard on the news. Bummer, was looking forward to this development. OKC can't catch a break, geez.

https://youtu.be/h1Gl1IYcRwM

Still smoldering this morning:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020922a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020922b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020922c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020922d.jpg

Wow that is crazy. Complete loss with the complex basically completed. Whatever the fire and smoke did not destroy, the water definitely did.

Still smoldering this morning; as far as I could tell no surrounding buildings were damaged.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020922a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020922b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020922c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canton020922d.jpg

Did the fire start at the Torchy’s?

All reports are that it started on the roof.

Wood frame construction, the building should have fire sprinklers. My question is was the system in operational or was it down for some reason. Also what was the cause that allowed the fire to get a foot hold? Any penetrations through firewalls etc. that should not have been there? Lots of questions which hopefully will be answered in the future. The public might not see but will be published in fire service magazines.

Fire suppression system wasn’t yet functional and the pipe stands weren’t operational. This wasn’t a completed building.

With Hvac equipment being installed and other things on the roof, there are multiple ways the fire could be started. And once petroleum based product is on fire, it’s very hard to extinguish with water.

One small bright spot, at least the winds were very light last night, might have made all the difference in preventing this from spreading to the surrounding buildings.

Were there no fire walls in the building. You would think with it being that big of a building there would of been sections where there were fire walls so a fire wouldn't spread or would of it not of matter since it was on the roof.

Were there no fire walls in the building. You would think with it being that big of a building there would of been sections where there were fire walls so a fire wouldn't spread or would of it not of matter since it was on the roof.

From what I heard on the news last night, the roof collapsed from the water weight, which caused the fire to spread rapidly. I don't think a fire wall would have helped much in this situation, unfortunately.

I don't think water sprinklers would have done anything even if they were on. The fire kept going until it burned up the entire roof.

Actually, fire proofing surrounding the lumber worked great. The roofing material was the weak link.

Did the fire start at the Torchy’s?

What? LOL, no.

This building is light weight wood frame construction. Its allowed due to sprinkler system. If one will look at the history of these buildings, the outcome in not unusual. They are basically a vertical lumber yard. When they burn, they are a huge bon fire.

With it unfinished, many fire prevention/suppression systems were likely not fully functional yet, making this a tinder box. Otherwise these wood built complexes are very safe when complete. They'll get receive insurance money to get to where it was before yesterday and itll be completed in time. Just sucks for the wasted materials, time and effort.

Wood frame construction, the building should have fire sprinklers. My question is was the system in operational or was it down for some reason. Also what was the cause that allowed the fire to get a foot hold? Any penetrations through firewalls etc. that should not have been there? Lots of questions which hopefully will be answered in the future. The public might not see but will be published in fire service magazines.

I'm sure it had sprinklers but since the place wasn't done/open yet, the system might not have been charged yet.

This does give them the opportunity to rethink the whole project. Maybe even change the design, add more height, different facade, etc. Trying to look on the bright side. With the run on construction goods, though, it's just mind-blowing thinking about all of that wasted material and effort.

This does give them the opportunity to rethink the whole project. Maybe even change the design, add more height, different facade, etc. Trying to look on the bright side. With the run on construction goods, though, it's just mind-blowing thinking about all of that wasted material and effort.

I am 175,000% sure they have insurance. So they won't be out money. But like you said, construction goods are either more expensive, or delayed.

But it does suck for the city. Not the city or FDs fault, just crappy timing and a bad situation.

the project manager is definitely in the extra bad timeline

It really sucks for the Ellison Hotel which recently opened and was looking forward to that massive construction project just to the west being completed.

Now, the Canton site is a smoldering pile of debris and the entire site will be a mess for quite some time. Can't help the business of the hotel and its restaurant, Milo.

Reading back through the thread: Is Hines still the developer on this project? Do they have anything else going?

Reading back through the thread: Is Hines still the developer on this project? Do they have anything else going?

Hines partnered with Humphreys Capital, which is an investment fund.

And no, other than severing as the development manager for Devon Tower and BOK Park Plaza in which they hold no ownership.

It was still smoking when I went by on I-44 at lunchtime today. I can't imagine how it looked yesterday but I was out of the loop on this until way late last night.

This does give them the opportunity to rethink the whole project. Maybe even change the design, add more height, different facade, etc. Trying to look on the bright side. With the run on construction goods, though, it's just mind-blowing thinking about all of that wasted material and effort.

I thought the same thing. Wasn’t this originally designed with a street through the middle of it with retail on the ground level that kinda connected it to NH Plaza and the Classen curve (or at least made a slightly better pedestrian link between the two)? I feel like it went from something much more walkable to basically a massive square.

^

That was just a conceptual plan before Washington Prime sold the land to this development group.

I'd be surprised if they didn't build back exactly as previously planned. Hopefully, they can salvage the parking structure.

^

That was just a conceptual plan before Washington Prime sold the land to this development group.

I'd be surprised if they didn't build back exactly as previously planned. Hopefully, they can salvage the parking structure.

Oh that’s right. I guess that was so long ago that I convinced myself it was an actual rendering of what was planned.

Just building it back as it was would be a win. Given the lack of new/modern/urban style apartments near there right now, I don’t think there’s too much risk that they’ll just take the insurance money, clear the site and walk away (honestly have no idea if that’s even an option but would be something I’d have concerns about if there were a ton of new, similar Apt options on the market nearby).

The housing market has only become much, much stronger since they purchased this land.

I expect they stick to same plan. Maybe change out some materials and few things different but mostly same because they can probably use existing permits and not have start completely over on the planning phases and permitting.

Hines partnered with Humphreys Capital, which is an investment fund.

And no, other than severing as the development manager for Devon Tower and BOK Park Plaza in which they hold no ownership.


I may be misinterpreting the question and response, but Hines is a pretty large operation with projects across the country/world, though I agree they don't have anything else local going on other than this and Devon-related projects.


Such a bummer all around. I have a friend and his wife coming in town Saturday and they're planning to stay at the Ellison. Though I'm sure their stay will be fine, sucked warning them last night that it might be a bit smoky and messy around the property during their stay.

I saw it smoking from North of Piedmont at 3:45 this afternoon.

Demolition won’t take long if the rest of the building falls like this. Will just be a cleanup operation at that point.
https://twitter.com/kocoshelbym/status/1491544799706599431?s=21

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Demo is already happening.

I figured demolition would begin pretty quick. They need to tear down large parts of the building to get to hidden areas of fire. Not to mention it's becoming extremely structurally unsound. I imagine and hope that all of the concrete elements can be salvaged. If the foundation, parking garage, and stairwells can all be salvaged, then reconstruction won't take as long as the original construction did. It's just a shame that it would take place when materials are more expensive. Hopefully the clean up process and the process of authorizing construction can be done very quickly and not take months on end.

Was this arson?