Tulsa offers test drives. I'm unsure of the delivery.

You’re also leaving out the insane government policies around the world forcing automakers to switch. Entire world stock of EVs is about 1% compared to other fuel sources. I am buying a Tesla model 3 next month. I am not an EV hater. I am only concerned how ignorant many are when it comes to the impact of EVs and them being so much better than ICE cars. Search of lithium and cobalt mines. The energy grid is already in need of trillions in upgrades just for the US alone— I’m not sure about other countries. Energy storage not just for batteries attached to cars but for homes is going to be needed as using coal and natural gas plants kind of defeats the purpose so if we are to switch to renewables for production, the operate at their lowest output at night when most people are likely to be charging them.

I’m wondering what effects that will have on the grid. Correct me if I’m wrong, but most major repairs to the grid for maintenance happen at night due to the low energy consumption allowing for diversions to shut off parts of the grid or lines that can be worked on.

Again, I’m not trying to say EVs aren’t good or that these problems can’t be overcome. Placing EVs stations around the country should be pretty easy. What happens to the grid and energy production when EVs begin to take up double digit market shares. I’m guessing Biden/Harris has a plan for that. It will be important to address that problem. Maybe someone who knows more about energy production and how the grid works can elaborate.

First, I want you to think about all the companies that stand to lose A LOT of money with an EV revolution.

Legacy automakers (GM, Ford, ect..)
Oil companies
Dealerships
OEM parts manufactures

Now, these companies have a lot of power & sway. Once they realized Tesla & EV manufactures were a real threat to their existence, they started funding & publishing studies to try to diminish the difference in pollution between themselves & EVs. Hell, for decades they tried to diminish their own impact on global warming.

I'm sure you've done more research than a typical person would on the environment impact between ICE & EV cars, but I can tell you that I have very little doubt that most of the research you found saying there isn't much of a difference has a money trail back to ICE manufactures or other companies who stand to lose a lot of money.

They definitely aren't perfect, but their carbon footprint is much much smaller.

------

Also to Pete's point on legacy ICE manufactures, at some point they are going to have to decide to commit to developing EV cars which will more than likely be a much tighter margin then their current car sales. So they have to actually commit to cannibalizing their own sales, at a smaller profit. Eventually they can get to the point where they can make the same margins but it's gonna be tough. They have tons & tons of equipment & factoring tooling that is made for ICE manufacturing that will now be obsolete & worthless. retooling their facilities will be a massive cost, and Ford & GM are already carrying a massive amount of debt. It's gonna be tough for them.

PS, when the Tesla center opens up, take a test drive if you haven’t. It will blow your mind.

They definitely will. A friend of mine in San Antonio has one and he let me drive it when we went down for a visit. I was hooked immediately. My wife got an X and I got the S and they both of autopilot I still have my gas-guzzling Ford truck. The wife won't let you put anything dirty in the back of her X. I am on the list for a Cyber Truck and I'll get the ATV too if the wife approved :cool:

They definitely will. A friend of mine in San Antonio has one and he let me drive it when we went down for a visit. I was hooked immediately. My wife got an X and I got the S and they both of autopilot I still have my gas-guzzling Ford truck. The wife won't let you put anything dirty in the back of her X. I am on the list for a Cyber Truck and I'll get the ATV too if the wife approved :cool:
Haha nice! I’m jealous about the Cybertruck. If I make it out here in Hollywood one day that will definitely be on my list. Have you heard any news about when they’ll start delivering them?

The Oklahoma Legislature has entered the chat...
https://www.okhouse.gov/Media/News_Story.aspx?NewsID=7864
Let's go ahead and make it more difficult and expensive to buy, charge and have EV's in our oil and gas dependent state. In my mind, the pollution caused by gas vehicles should be taxed far more.
Also, I should note, this still has to go through committee and then onto each floor and voted upon before it can come close to passing and being applied. There are much more simple and easier ways to raise funds for ODOT projects, but I digress.

^

Like raising gas tax at the pump, which is why Oklahoma has just about the cheapest gasoline prices anywhere.

It's also why our roads and bridges are in terrible shape.

The Oklahoma Legislature has entered the chat...
https://www.okhouse.gov/Media/News_Story.aspx?NewsID=7864
Let's go ahead and make it more difficult and expensive to buy, charge and have EV's in our oil and gas dependent state. In my mind, the pollution caused by gas vehicles should be taxed far more.
Also, I should note, this still has to go through committee and then onto each floor and voted upon before it can come close to passing and being applied. There are much more simple and easier ways to raise funds for ODOT projects, but I digress.

this bill is a no brainer based on the way we fund road construction

Seems like a fair law to me. They should for sure raise gas prices at the pump to find better roads but Oklahoma is pretty anti tax. I do wonder if all the legislators who said they will never vote to raise taxes consider that EV tax, a tax?

Seems like a fair law to me. They should for sure raise gas prices at the pump to find better roads but Oklahoma is pretty anti tax. I do wonder if all the legislators who said they will never vote to raise taxes consider that EV tax, a tax?

Not really a new tax. It’s the equivalent of finally making Amazon collect and pay sales tax to the States.

Yea, I mean electric cars use the same amount of roads as everyone else. There needs to be some type of mechanism to have them pay for their share of road taxes. I would think a mileage tax would be the easiest/fairest route but I'm not sure how you would be able to collect from out of state drivers doing that.

Seems like a fair law to me. They should for sure raise gas prices at the pump to find better roads but Oklahoma is pretty anti tax. I do wonder if all the legislators who said they will never vote to raise taxes consider that EV tax, a tax?

It will become a "fee." We don't use that nasty "T" word in this state, sir! :D

^

Like raising gas tax at the pump, which is why Oklahoma has just about the cheapest gasoline prices anywhere.

It's also why our roads and bridges are in terrible shape.

That last statement is flat wrong regarding bridges. Last year, we rose to 9th in the nation for lowest # of deficient bridges on State and Federal highways.
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/banner-project-updates/bridges.html

Our roads aren't at the top but I would argue against the use of "terrible" to describe our State and Federal roads. To me, that implies in the bottom 5 or so.

Looks like you can schedule service appointments starting Feb. 15th, so that appears to be the first day they will be officially open.

Dang they must have put it into high gear. Last time I rode my bike by there not all that long ago they didn't seem as far along.

On their website now:
https://www.tesla.com/findus/location/service/okc1125

Dave

:wink:

The auto is back in Automobile Alley (several models on the lot):

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tesla021221a.jpg

I do wonder if we will see a law this year to allow them to direct sale? It has been brought up every year but doesn't seem to make it past committee.

I do wonder if we will see a law this year to allow them to direct sale? It has been brought up every year but doesn't seem to make it past committee.

direct sale doesn't benefit the state

I do wonder if we will see a law this year to allow them to direct sale? It has been brought up every year but doesn't seem to make it past committee.

Of note that the location is also on Tesla's list of Stores and Galleries.

direct sale doesn't benefit the state

wouldn't the state get sales tax? (even moreso)? also registration, tabs, and so on?

I fail to see how this differs for Tesla direct vs. dealerships other than the 'ole boy' NIMBY relationships the latter has with regulators. ...

Can you test drive cars here?

I do wonder if we will see a law this year to allow them to direct sale? It has been brought up every year but doesn't seem to make it past committee.

You can already buy directly on Tesla.com

I'm sure you can go to the service center & have somebody help walk you through the process if you deem necessary.

You can already buy directly on Tesla.com

I'm sure you can go to the service center & have somebody help walk you through the process if you deem necessary.

Yea I know but usually they come with temp tags from Kansas or Texas. But since we have a dealer I was wondering if you could take delivery at the Service Center or if it was just for service.

Yea I know but usually they come with temp tags from Kansas or Texas. But since we have a dealer I was wondering if you could take delivery at the Service Center or if it was just for service.

I found out you cannot take delivery in Tulsa, so I doubt you will be able to in OKC. Closest place for pickup now is KC. You can also get a (fully funded) car delivered for a fee.

Can you test drive cars here?

Yes.

I found out you cannot take delivery in Tulsa, so I doubt you will be able to in OKC. Closest place for pickup now is KC. You can also get a (fully funded) car delivered for a fee.

Ya I figured. That stinks. Hopefully it changes soon.

Ya I figured. That stinks. Hopefully it changes soon.
Not that I have a dog in the fight. I would need them to be way cheaper before I'd be in the market. But why can't they have a dealership like any other. They're a car manufactured just like any other car?

Supposedly working toward a 25K car in the next few years

I dont think I would buy one from a build quality perspective. I have driven a 3 and S and was impressed but the value just wasn't there. I do applaud Tesla for make more EVs hit the market and the demand rise. We are going to see a flood of EVs in the future and will be a good car for a lot of folks.

Supposedly working toward a 25K car in the next few years
A 25k car is within my reach. The Tesla 3 starts at almost 40k.

I dont think I would buy one from a build quality perspective. I have driven a 3 and S and was impressed but the value just wasn't there. I do applaud Tesla for make more EVs hit the market and the demand rise. We are going to see a flood of EVs in the future and will be a good car for a lot of folks.

Their build quality is less than stellar. With extremely limited places for service I think I would wait a couple of years for a VW, Ford, or Chevy.
Tesla has a loyal following but I think a lot of their sales are based on being the flavor of the day and not when comparing other options like the Chevy Bolt.
Personally I would prefer either the new E Mustang or the VW electric bus.

Not that I have a dog in the fight. I would need them to be way cheaper before I'd be in the market. But why can't they have a dealership like any other. They're a car manufactured just like any other car?

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but here is what I understand ... Oklahoma is like a lot of states in that the auto dealer lobby is strong and has been successful in creating laws where only franchised dealerships can sell new vehicles, not directly from an OEM like Ford, Toyota, and the like. And, since all of Tesla’s stores are corporate owned, that keeps them from being able to open a store here.

Their build quality is less than stellar. With extremely limited places for service I think I would wait a couple of years for a VW, Ford, or Chevy.
Tesla has a loyal following but I think a lot of their sales are based on being the flavor of the day and not when comparing other options like the Chevy Bolt.
Personally I would prefer either the new E Mustang or the VW electric bus.

Teslas are better in basically every measurable way, but you do you boss.

They have mobile service that will come to you wherever you are.

A 25k car is within my reach. The Tesla 3 starts at almost 40k.

There is a bit of sticker shock, but keep in mind operating costs (fuel) and maintenance costs have proven to be much lower.

Teslas are better in basically every measurable way, but you do you boss.

They have mobile service that will come to you wherever you are.

They do have panache, no doubt. But reliability, eh.
I'll do Consumer Reports bud.
Tesla Reliability Sinks In Consumer Reports Annual Study
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2020/11/19/tesla-reliability-sinks-in-consumer-reports-annual-survey/amp/

They do have panache, no doubt. But reliability, eh.
I'll do Consumer Reports bud.
Tesla Reliability Sinks In Consumer Reports Annual Study
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2020/11/19/tesla-reliability-sinks-in-consumer-reports-annual-survey/amp/

Oh the same consumer reports that had Tesla with 3 of the top 4 most satisfying cars? Interesting.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-satisfying-cars-on-the-market-car-owner-satisfaction/

Oh the same consumer reports that had Tesla with 3 of the top 4 most satisfying cars? Interesting.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-satisfying-cars-on-the-market-car-owner-satisfaction/

I mean that is an owner survey of satisfaction. Jeeps are on the top of that list too and we all know the great reliability of the Jeep brand!

Oh the same consumer reports that had Tesla with 3 of the top 4 most satisfying cars? Interesting.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-satisfying-cars-on-the-market-car-owner-satisfaction/

Satisfaction != reliability.

I have heard bad things about Tesla customer service? Anyone here with actual experience that could chime in?

There was also the issue with the Tesla touchscreens but I don’t know how bad the issue was. I was so wowed by the model 3 I’m going to try and get one this year hopefully before the end of spring.

Satisfaction != reliability.
Not so sure I’d agree with that.

Not so sure I’d agree with that.

Reliability is *part* of satisfaction, but reliability and build quality can still be sh*t and a person can still be "satisfied" with the car. Reliability/build quality = objective and can be measured by number of recalls, things broken, etc.. Satisfaction = subjective and can encompass all kinds of things, some that can't be actually measured.

I was fairly satisfied with my 1975 Chevy Monza (first car, was given to me by my dad, who drove it previously), but it was a POS by any objective means of measuring reliability and build quality - many many things wrong with it from the very start and other things that kept popping up during my ownership.

^

Haha, I also had a 1975 Monza.

The build quality was criminally bad.

Cars have come lightyears since that time.

It's all up to the consumer.

You guys can choose your cars based on panel gaps.

I'll choose my cars based on self driving technology, safety, performance, range, charging networks, continuous updates, operating & maintenance costs.

I’ve heard Teslas lose 50% of their range in 0 degree weather.

No thanks. I like my twin turbo V6s just fine.

^

Haha, I also had a 1975 Monza.

The build quality was criminally bad.

Cars have come lightyears since that time.

We should compare notes to see what all we each had to fix, lol... Mine was extra-bad because it had a 262 V8 in it and the frame wasn't built to handle that motor.

this is before me, but my mom drove a 1970 mustang and my folks traded it in for a '75 monza. if i remember right, they had it for a whole 6 months before ditching it for a chevy malibu.

this is before me, but my mom drove a 1970 mustang and my folks traded it in for a '75 monza. if i remember right, they had it for a whole 6 months before ditching it for a chevy malibu.
I'm almost surprised the Malibu was better. My first new car was a 77 Camaro and by 80 or 81 I had replaced the A/C and heater systems. The rear quarter panels and wheel wells had rusted through. And I had to replace the rear differential. I loved that car but it was the second biggest POS I've ever owned.

I'm almost surprised the Malibu was better.My first new car was a 77 Camaro and by 80 or 81 I had replaced the A/C and heater systems. The rear quarter panels and wheel wells had rusted through. And I had to replace the rear differential. I loved that car but it was the second biggest POS I've ever owned.

it did pretty well... my folks kept it till '82 or '83 when they bought a toyota cressida... mom has driven toyota products ever since. my oldest brother 'inherited' the malibu and drove it till it it threw a rod on him in '87. 11 years isn't a bad run for a car of that vintage... but reliability is way better now.

this is before me, but my mom drove a 1970 mustang and my folks traded it in for a '75 monza. if i remember right, they had it for a whole 6 months before ditching it for a chevy malibu.

Bizarre.

My very first car was a 1970 Mustang and my second was a 1975 Monza.

Both were horrible in terms of reliability and build quality. I then bought a 1982 Audi 4000 which was a million times better but still pretty bad by today's standards. I recently looked it up and discovered it had 78 horsepower.

Bizarre.

My very first car was a 1970 Mustang and my second was a 1975 Monza.

Both were horrible in terms of reliability and build quality. I then bought a 1982 Audi 4000 which was a million times better but still pretty bad by today's standards. I recently looked it up and discovered it had 78 horsepower.

My next one after the 75 Monza was an 85 Jeep CJ-7, with all the extra things for real off-roading, fantastic vehicle, like day and night between it and the Monza.

Tesla Dodges Direct Sales Ban in New Mexico, Opens Sales Center on Tribal Land
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/tesla-dodges-direct-sales-ban-in-new-mexico-opens-sales-center-on-tribal-land/ar-AAOjoqG?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

It’s bizarre that the government has laws forcing a middleman between car makers and customers. Just like how Oklahoma won’t allow chain liquor stores and yet claims to be a pro business state directly conflicting with that ideology.

...like how Oklahoma ... claims to be a pro business state directly conflicting with that ideology.

There are stacks and stacks of examples undermining this fatuous branding canard.

Texas doesn't allow it, just like most states don't. I know Connecticut doesn't, and their auto dealer industry is very sue-happy if it is ever mentioned.

The number of states you can buy at a Tesla dealership is not as high as you think.

What a joke

https://electrek.co/2022/02/21/tesla-asks-fans-oklahoma-mississippi-to-fight-new-bills-ban-direct-sales-electric-cars/

The irony:


This effort comes just after Oklahoma pulled out the red carpet for Tesla in trying to convince the automaker to build a factory in the state.

A little conflict of interest fun fact: the author of this bill is Mike Dobrinski, owner of chevy car dealerships...

The irony:

I think I've said this elsewhere on OKCTalk, but it's worth repeating because this is a good example. Too many people focus on the "embarrassing headlines" theme for why we don't get new business, but in my previous work, where I advised several Fortune 500 companies on potential relocation of the HQs or an expansion of their operations to new states, I almost never heard that as a reason--directly or indirectly. More often, Oklahoma was rejected because there is a pervasive distrust of the state government (and local government partners) to, in a phrase, "keep their word." That doesn't apply exclusively to financial incentives; it often applies specifically to laws and regulations that would make it much more difficult to do business here. There is also a pervasive belief that the government is simply amateurish and doesn't know how to properly coordinate among appropriate executive agencies and branches of government. No business wants to invest millions of dollars in start up costs to suddenly have to deal with BS they were promised in closed-door negotiations would be a non-factor.

The irony:

I think I've said this elsewhere on OKCTalk, but it's worth repeating because this is a good example. Too many people focus on the "embarrassing headlines" theme for why we don't get new business, but in my previous work, where I advised several Fortune 500 companies on potential relocation of the HQs or an expansion of their operations to new states, I almost never heard that as a reason--directly or indirectly. More often, Oklahoma was rejected because there is a pervasive distrust of the state government (and local government partners) to, in a phrase, "keep their word." That doesn't apply exclusively to financial incentives; it often applies specifically to laws and regulations that would make it much more difficult to do business here. There is also a pervasive belief that the government is simply amateurish and doesn't know how to properly coordinate among appropriate executive agencies and branches of government. No business wants to invest millions of dollars in start up costs to suddenly have to deal with BS they were promised in closed-door negotiations would be a non-factor.