I will use this bridge, but I will be shaking my head the whole time. They should have at least tried a proper at-grade crossing at first and used the money saved for other needed trail improvements. I wonder how much the cost overruns are in labor alone.

Guess there was no layaway option at Bob's discount bridges? I don't see anything special about this project that would make it take it so long. Its kind of an ugly bridge that they will install some LED lights on and call it good.

Exactly! Tease us by making us see the bridge when they're no where near finishing the north side ramp, barely started on the south side ramp supports and no where near having the center support structure ready.

I think there is no center support pillar. This is probably why the bridge is already in the median. Once the two side pillars are sound enough, they will pick up the bridge and set it on, independent of the ramp/stairs status.

I think there is no center support pillar. This is probably why the bridge is already in the median. Once the two side pillars are sound enough, they will pick up the bridge and set it on, independent of the ramp/stairs status.
You're right. I was overthinking it.

It's so strange they dropped that bridge in the median when they were nowhere close to being ready to position it properly.
With the current state of logistics and supply chains, I wonder if their fabricator said we can either build this early for you, or you'll have to wait; so they went ahead and got it built and trucked in? That is odd.

And now this is on indefinite hold awaiting parts for the LED lighting system.

Holy cow, those bridge sections have been there blocking one lane of traffic for almost 5 months now.

I feel for the people who have to commute through that area.

Holy cow, those bridge sections have been there blocking one lane of traffic for almost 5 months now.

I feel for the people who have to commute through that area.Like my wife. Well, she could go other ways but she gets one route stuck in her head and that's that.

I noticed a contractor's crews working on lights a couple weeks ago. It stuck because the company was founded by one of the first Journeymen that I worked under years ago.

It’s absurd that they can’t find a better place to temporarily store the bridge. Not like there’s any shortage of empty land in NW OKC.

Well go ahead and add another item to the list of reasons drivers hate pedestrians and bicyclists.

Well go ahead and add another item to the list of reasons drivers hate pedestrians and bicyclists.

Uh, wut?

Uh, wut?

Their commutes being interrupted by a “silly pedestrian bridge” sitting in the middle of the road.

It's absolutely nuts that they couldn't find somewhere else to store the bridge section. Even if the fabricator didn't have room to store it at their shop, it still would have been easy to find another location to store it. I'm sure it would cost them a little extra $$ having to move the bridge twice, but I'd think the cost would be worth it instead of choking off 2 lanes of NW Expressway for half a year.

On a positive note, during lunch today I noticed they had signs up on either side of the work zone saying NW Expressway will be closed on 9/14 from 11:00PM to 5:30AM. So hopefully that is when they are finally going to set the bridge deck in place. Also noticed an electrician was there installing lights on the sides of the bridge.

While I support increasing the Bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure in the city this bridge looks like a massive waste of money. I genuinely hope I am wrong, but it looks like millions of dollars circling the drain.

While I support increasing the Bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure in the city this bridge looks like a massive waste of money. I genuinely hope I am wrong, but it looks like millions of dollars circling the drain.

So how much is it worth to keep people from being killed at a very dangerous area while trying to cross by foot or bicycle? There are other pedestrian and bicycle bridges in OKC. Were those also a massive waste of money? I suspect this will get more traffic than the bridge over I44 at Woodson Park. Considering how long this bridge will last I think it was a very wise idea.

Yeah I would agree that the bridge itself is a good investment, it’s just the execution of the project that has been terrible IMO.

So how much is it worth to keep people from being killed at a very dangerous area while trying to cross by foot or bicycle? There are other pedestrian and bicycle bridges in OKC. Were those also a massive waste of money? I suspect this will get more traffic than the bridge over I44 at Woodson Park. Considering how long this bridge will last I think it was a very wise idea.

I second this ^^^.

Plus it safely connects the Overholser to Hefner trail system.

CITY OF OKC PRESS RELEASE:

Installation begins Sept. 14 on pedestrian bridge over NW Expressway

Northwest Expressway from Wilshire Boulevard to MacArthur Boulevard will close from midnight to 5 a.m. Sept. 14 so construction crews can hoist an iconic 121-foot pedestrian bridge over NW Expressway, east of Wilshire Boulevard.
Welding, decking, assembly and other work will take place over the next few weeks, causing the outside east and westbound lanes to be closed through mid-October. Two lanes in each direction will remain open to traffic.
The bridge will link the Lake Hefner and Lake Overholser Trail and provide safer passage for walkers, cyclists and runners across NW Expressway. The $5.3 million project is funded by the 2007 Bond Program and the 2017 Better Streets, Safer City Bond Program.
The design concept represents classic cars from the 40s, 50s and 60s and nearby airports, Wiley Post and Clarence E Page, and their aviation heritage.

LOL a safer intersection could have been done at-grade for much cheaper than putting this bridge in, they just didn't even try. But doing the safer at-grade intersection would have inconvenienced drivers and we'd rather spend the millions so drivers can continue to not consider the safety of their driving.

Also what good is a "safe bridge" in connecting Lake O and Lake H when we only have a painted line on a big chunk of that connection? If the entire connection was actually off-street (there are both on-street and painted bike lane components currently), the argument would be much more valid. If you've never ridden the connection, you should try it sometime. If we REALLY cared about safety, the entire connection would be either off street (e.g. fully trail) or protected when on-street.

So how much is it worth to keep people from being killed at a very dangerous area while trying to cross by foot or bicycle? There are other pedestrian and bicycle bridges in OKC. Were those also a massive waste of money? I suspect this will get more traffic than the bridge over I44 at Woodson Park. Considering how long this bridge will last I think it was a very wise idea.

Check the self righteous indignation for a moment and think could we have done this better for cheaper? The answer is yes. If we wanted useful and usable pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure it would have been done at grade. We could and should have barrier protected pedestrian and bike lanes/crossings all the way down expressway. To think this ridiculous waste of money is solving a problem effectively is laughable.

Check the self righteous indignation for a moment and think could we have done this better for cheaper? The answer is yes. If we wanted useful and usable pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure it would have been done at grade. We could and should have barrier protected pedestrian and bike lanes/crossings all the way down expressway. To think this ridiculous waste of money is solving a problem effectively is laughable.
At grade? Lol are you kidding me? At grade crossings for separate modes of transportation is the worst choice possible and only done because it’s easier and cheaper. This by far and large much safer for pedestrians and cyclists and many more of these should be built. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

LOL a safer intersection could have been done at-grade for much cheaper than putting this bridge in, they just didn't even try. But doing the safer at-grade intersection would have inconvenienced drivers and we'd rather spend the millions so drivers can continue to not consider the safety of their driving.

Also what good is a "safe bridge" in connecting Lake O and Lake H when we only have a painted line on a big chunk of that connection? If the entire connection was actually off-street (there are both on-street and painted bike lane components currently), the argument would be much more valid. If you've never ridden the connection, you should try it sometime. If we REALLY cared about safety, the entire connection would be either off street (e.g. fully trail) or protected when on-street.
So you think that an at grade crossing is safer than a grade separated one for three different modes of traffic?

One of the primary reasons for this is to provide a somewhat seamless connection between the Overholser Trail and the one that goes around Lake Hefner. Lots of cyclists.

But also, eventually the Bus Rapid Transit system will extend up this way (the first phase stops at Meridian). There are thousands of apartments just southwest of this bridge and the overhead connection will provide easy access to a future station on the north side of NW Expressway. And will do so without stopping the very heavy car traffic.

An overhead crossing like this makes more sense here than just about anywhere around OKC.

^^^^ if you look at other cities that have extensive trail systems many of them have over or under crossings to have more of a free flowing system for trail users and yes it does also benefit car drivers. I guess some would rather want at grade crossings just to stick it to car drivers even though the grade separation is safer in every single way.

People who actually do this for a living have spoken on this subject.

https://twitter.com/orangeurbansf/status/1310934856889581568

If I were still riding I would not be a fan of that design. Or any on grade design on a street as crazy as NW Expressway. Way too many drivers on NW Expressway that pay zero attention to where they're supposed to stop at intersections. And some that believe red isn't really red until it's been red for a second or two. I've been across that intersection a thousand times and it was bad. That design would be an improvement but still not a fraction as safe as the bridge.

The steepness of the ramp on the north side seems like it wouldn't be much fun on a bike going up or even walking just looking at it from afar. I realize the bridge has to be high so I'm sure that is how it had to be. Maybe it will be different actually using it. It also doesn't look very ADA compliant but maybe it doesn't have to be.

These were my thoughts as well after I went there, but we'll find out I guess

The steepness of the ramp on the north side seems like it wouldn't be much fun on a bike going up or even walking just looking at it from afar. I realize the bridge has to be high so I'm sure that is how it had to be. Maybe it will be different actually using it. It also doesn't look very ADA compliant but maybe it doesn't have to be.

The pedestrian bridge over I44 is also steep, especially if you ride a bike over it, going east into the park there's a sharp turn and if you miss, you end up in swing set.

The pedestrian bridge over I44 is also steep, especially if you ride a bike over it, going east into the park there's a sharp turn and if you miss, you end up in swing set.
I have to add that I was a competitive cyclist but the I44 bridge was no problem at all. The new bridge looks to me like a piece of cake. Most casual cyclists ride mountain or similar bikes and the lowest gear should be no problem on though ramps.

People who actually do this for a living have spoken on this subject.

https://twitter.com/orangeurbansf/status/1310934856889581568
Yeah and their opinion is utterly ridiculous. I’ve read the same thing from other urbanists who don’t like grade separations for stuff like this. It’s a ridiculous argument. It’s safer to separate the grades by modes of transport.

I'm sure the traffic count is well above 100,000 at that intersection per day. No where else on the trails connection has this much traffic and congestion. Safety at this intersection is paramount.
This is a somewhat iconic design, and a lot of folks on this board complain that we are only average and cheap on the build. This is money well spent IMO.

Yeah and their opinion is utterly ridiculous. I’ve read the same thing from other urbanists who don’t like grade separations for stuff like this. It’s a ridiculous argument. It’s safer to separate the grades by modes of transport.

It's a professional opinion but go off I guess, since you know better.

I'm sure the traffic count is well above 100,000 at that intersection per day. No where else on the trails connection has this much traffic and congestion. Safety at this intersection is paramount.
This is a somewhat iconic design, and a lot of folks on this board complain that we are only average and cheap on the build. This is money well spent IMO.

Not even close

The stretch of Northwest Expressway at Wilshire has an average daily vehicle count topping 46,000 and, to minimize traffic headaches, Allen Contracting will be building a prefabricated bridge that will then be placed over the street.Nov 17, 2021

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/11/17/okc-trails-bridge-begins-construction-over-northwest-expressway/8638146002/

this is interesting, the only time I care for a bridge while riding my bike is over a highway and those usually are not as steep and have a sidewalk like where NW Grand turns into S Lake Hefner drive once you get on the highway bridge

https://www.itdp.org/2019/10/01/pedestrian-bridges-make-cities-less-walkable-why-do-cities-keep-building-them/


https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/instead-of-a-pedestrian-bridge-how-about-a-street-that-works-for-walking-biking-and-transit/

not even close

the stretch of northwest expressway at wilshire has an average daily vehicle count topping 46,000 and, to minimize traffic headaches, allen contracting will be building a prefabricated bridge that will then be placed over the street.nov 17, 2021

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/11/17/okc-trails-bridge-begins-construction-over-northwest-expressway/8638146002/

The Oklahoman story is behind a paywall.

I just looked at ODOT and it has a 53,700 count for that stretch in 2018.

What did Allen Contracting do in 2021 ?


Tried to copy but couldn't get it to work.

The Oklahoman story is behind a paywall.

I just looked at ODOT and it has a 53,700 count for that stretch in 2018.

What did Allen Contracting do in 2021 ?


Tried to copy but couldn't get it to work.

The article said 49,900 so not too different.

Nov 2021 was when construction started.

The Oklahoman story is behind a paywall.

I just looked at ODOT and it has a 53,700 count for that stretch in 2018.

What did Allen Contracting do in 2021 ?


Tried to copy but couldn't get it to work.

that is weird, I don't have a subscription for the oklahoman and it lets me read it, maybe clear your browser history/cookies.

"The stretch of Northwest Expressway at Wilshire has an average daily vehicle count topping 46,000 and, to minimize traffic headaches, Allen Contracting will be building a prefabricated bridge that will then be placed over the street. The bridge is set to open by late 2022."

Article is from 2021, its only talking about the section at Wilshire and NW Expressway having 46k average which is not even close to 100k

that is weird, I don't have a subscription for the oklahoman and it lets me read it, maybe clear your browser history/cookies.

"The stretch of Northwest Expressway at Wilshire has an average daily vehicle count topping 46,000 and, to minimize traffic headaches, Allen Contracting will be building a prefabricated bridge that will then be placed over the street. The bridge is set to open by late 2022."

Article is from 2021, its only talking about the section at Wilshire and NW Expressway having 46k average which is not even close to 100kThe Oklahoman lets you have x number of free articles. After the bridge one l have 1 left.

"The stretch of Northwest Expressway at Wilshire has an average daily vehicle count topping 46,000 and, to minimize traffic headaches, Allen Contracting will be building a prefabricated bridge that will then be placed over the street. The bridge is set to open by late 2022."

The number Lackmeyer appears to be quoting is from ACOG traffic counts which were 46,332 vehicles per day in May of 2017,

The Oklahoman lets you have x number of free articles. After the bridge one l have 1 left.

thats why I say clear your history and cookies and flush the dns if you know how

cmd line ipconfig /flushdns

It's a professional opinion but go off I guess, since you know better.
Okay so at grade crossings are safer than grade separated ones. Hmmmm, or maybe these “professional opinions” just don’t like the fact it also does allow automobile traffic to benefit as well so more of the same “cars bad” type crap.

I drove that section for 23 years. Multiple issues with pedestrians, bicyclist and other cars. It makes good sense to separate.

And with the growth to the Northwest, I don't think the traffic counts are going down unless the Kilpatrick gets extended use.

Trying to argue against traffic counts here seems very silly. It may be around 50,000 now but this bridge is in the fastest growing part of the city and the state? Being from Piedmont, I can say almost the entire population of that city/town use NW Expressway daily. On almost any listicle you look at in the last 5 years about the fastest growing cities in the state, Piedmont is listed at or near the top. That's not taking into account the almost 7 mile outstretch of OKC along the Expressway from Morgan Rd which reaches 2-4 miles N/S towards Yukon/Piedmont that is growing just as fast.

So, even if the traffic counts aren't extravagant now, who's to say they won't be in 10-15 years? This is a good project.

Okay so at grade crossings are safer than grade separated ones. Hmmmm, or maybe these “professional opinions” just don’t like the fact it also does allow automobile traffic to benefit as well so more of the same “cars bad” type crap.


Not an opinion did you not read the articles backed up with facts?

https://www.itdp.org/2019/10/01/pedestrian-bridges-make-cities-less-walkable-why-do-cities-keep-building-them/

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/instead-of-a-pedestrian-bridge-how-about-a-street-that-works-for-walking-biking-and-transit/

Not an opinion did you not read the articles backed up with facts?

https://www.itdp.org/2019/10/01/pedestrian-bridges-make-cities-less-walkable-why-do-cities-keep-building-them/

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/instead-of-a-pedestrian-bridge-how-about-a-street-that-works-for-walking-biking-and-transit/
Streetsblog, what a source


the bridge collapse was a failure of street design and transportation planning by Miami Dade County and Florida DOT.

lol no it was a result of an engineering flaw from the same firm that had contracts with Texas to build two massive bridges and are now removed and the bridges are likely going to have to be demoed and started from scratch. You used a very rare and isolated event.

So let’s look at how many pedestrians die from crossing at grade versus a dedicated bridge to separate them from automobile and other traffic. Let’s look at those facts. Are we really trying to make the argument that if Las Vegas removed all of its pedestrian bridges and converted them back to at grade crossings it would be safer? Because that’s the argument you and the others here against the NWE bike/ped bridge are making.

Grade separated crossings are safer every singe time. It isn’t an opinion. Reduction in conflict points is the number one key to reducing accidents.

I mean here is article after article about how grade separation is safer:

https://policy.tti.tamu.edu/strategy/grade-separation/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_separation

https://sanjosespotlight.com/philbrick-keeping-train-tracks-separate-keeps-people-safe/

It’s amazing to me we even have to have this discussion. Anti car publications like strongtowns, curbed, streetsblog, etc. repeat the same nonsense about induced demand so don’t widen freeways, cars don’t belong in cities because they make them unlivable, skyscrapers are bad because cities should be more human scale(which is a stupid POV), blah blah blah and of course anything like sky bridges or underground pedestrian corridors are bad because they contribute to a reduction in street activity. Yeah right, let’s make pedestrians suffer heat, cold, rain, snow, etc. just so we can them on the streets walking and feel better about the street being busy because that’s what most important.

And of course this grade separation will make crossing NWE safer for cyclists and pedestrians ten fold since they won’t need to rely on drivers following the law not running red lights or paying attention which many often don’t. But hey, since this will *also* benefit car drivers it must be bad. Give me a break.

Streetsblog, what a source



lol no it was a result of an engineering flaw from the same firm that had contracts with Texas to build two massive bridges and are now removed and the bridges are likely going to have to be demoed and started from scratch. You used a very rare and isolated event.

So let’s look at how many pedestrians die from crossing at grade versus a dedicated bridge to separate them from automobile and other traffic. Let’s look at those facts. Are we really trying to make the argument that if Las Vegas removed all of its pedestrian bridges and converted them back to at grade crossings it would be safer? Because that’s the argument you and the others here against the NWE bike/ped bridge are making.

Grade separated crossings are safer every singe time. It isn’t an opinion. Reduction in conflict points is the number one key to reducing accidents.

I mean here is article after article about how grade separation is safer:

https://policy.tti.tamu.edu/strategy/grade-separation/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_separation

https://sanjosespotlight.com/philbrick-keeping-train-tracks-separate-keeps-people-safe/

It’s amazing to me we even have to have this discussion. Anti car publications like strongtowns, curbed, streetsblog, etc. repeat the same nonsense about induced demand so don’t widen freeways, cars don’t belong in cities because they make them unlivable, skyscrapers are bad because cities should be more human scale(which is a stupid POV), blah blah blah and of course anything like sky bridges or underground pedestrian corridors are bad because they contribute to a reduction in street activity. Yeah right, let’s make pedestrians suffer heat, cold, rain, snow, etc. just so we can them on the streets walking and feel better about the street being busy because that’s what most important.

And of course this grade separation will make crossing NWE safer for cyclists and pedestrians ten fold since they won’t need to rely on drivers following the law not running red lights or paying attention which many often don’t. But hey, since this will *also* benefit car drivers it must be bad. Give me a break.

You act like the articles don’t show the stats concerning the subject

NW Expressway is not a highway

Using Las Vegas as an example is not the same

The strip is not bike path it is completely full of pedestrians all year around

And the stats show most people don’t use the pedestrian bridges

You act like the articles don’t show the stats concerning the subject

NW Expressway is not a highway

Using Las Vegas as an example is not the same

The strip is not bike path it is completely full of pedestrians all year around

And the stats show most people don’t use the pedestrian bridges
Okay you’re trying to move the goalpost. The topic is what is safer, grade crossing or grade separation. I told you the answer. You asked me to back it up. Not only did I do that, but I also gave you examples to think about like Las Vegas not to compare this bridge to it but factor in the safety of grade separations.

At this point we’re going in circles. The bridge is going to be built. These are very common in other cities and it’s nice to see OKC get on the ball with it. I’ve made my points and have nothing further to say at this time.

If I were still riding I would not be a fan of that design. Or any on grade design on a street as crazy as NW Expressway. Way too many drivers on NW Expressway that pay zero attention to where they're supposed to stop at intersections. And some that believe red isn't really red until it's been red for a second or two. I've been across that intersection a thousand times and it was bad. That design would be an improvement but still not a fraction as safe as the bridge.

Yeah, Arjan Jager's designs have to be applied EVERYWHERE not just one intersection and its a culture mindset that has to exist in the entire community The key point aspect in his designs are that they slow traffic down. NW expressway is not an urban area. Might as well be suggesting that some trees and a pedestrian cross walk on I-40 is good enough to make it safer for pedestrians to cross.

You act like the articles don’t show the stats concerning the subject

NW Expressway is not a highway

It literally is though. NW Expressway is Oklahoma State Highway 3.

Yeah and their opinion is utterly ridiculous. I’ve read the same thing from other urbanists who don’t like grade separations for stuff like this. It’s a ridiculous argument. It’s safer to separate the grades by modes of transport.

Even the Dutch do stuff like this now and then... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hovenring

Grade separation of a 45 mph (speed limited) intersection is good. To do an at-grade crossing safely, you'd need to spend millions more redoing car lanes, slowing traffic, etc. You'd also really need to just reconfigure the land uses in the adjacent 10 square miles... it's a long term goal, but it's not a good fix for this spot. Let's stop debating the need and start watching them finally finish construction...

Okay so at grade crossings are safer than grade separated ones. Hmmmm, or maybe these “professional opinions” just don’t like the fact it also does allow automobile traffic to benefit as well so more of the same “cars bad” type crap.

An at grade crossing can positively benefit both sides for less capital investment if it is done properly. Northwest expressway has enough additional room for barrier protected bike lanes and a separate barrier protected walkway. With properly designed intersections and light signaling we could create a safer bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure covering more area and providing help for more people with the money we have invested into this bridge. This bridge is a barrier for the physically disabled and elderly and has no lifts to help mitigate that. In a fantasy world yeah we could have a network of bicycle paths and sidewalks elevated above traffic, but the political will and capital is never going to be available. I think as a city we should try to do the most we can with our tax dollars.

Update:

OKLAHOMA CITY (Free Press) — Overnight delivery drivers and early shift workers will have to find a different way through the always-busy intersection of Northwest Expressway and Wilshire from midnight to 5 a.m. Wednesday, Sept. 14.

The span across the expressway will be hoisted into place for a massive pedestrian-bike bridge, a project that has snarled traffic in the area for months already.

- https://freepressokc.com/nw-expy-to-close-at-wilshire-wed-sept-14-from-midnight-to-5-a-m/

Took these today:
17651
17652

My wife usually goes by there on the way to work about 5:00AM. She went another way today thinking the schedule might have been held up a bit.

An at grade crossing can positively benefit both sides for less capital investment if it is done properly. Northwest expressway has enough additional room for barrier protected bike lanes and a separate barrier protected walkway. With properly designed intersections and light signaling we could create a safer bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure covering more area and providing help for more people with the money we have invested into this bridge. This bridge is a barrier for the physically disabled and elderly and has no lifts to help mitigate that. In a fantasy world yeah we could have a network of bicycle paths and sidewalks elevated above traffic, but the political will and capital is never going to be available. I think as a city we should try to do the most we can with our tax dollars.

Smh......

Took these today:
17651
17652

That driveway exit from CDR that goes underneath the bridge seems very dangerous. Seems like cars will be turning out onto NW expressway blindly as the concrete wall blocks the view. They shouldn’t have allowed that driveway to continue and forced them to utilize the light.

I drove under this bridge yesterday and it’s a train wreck!

I’ve lived in several countries including 3rd world and seen better pedestrian bridges.

I’d bet everything I have that this bridge will get very little to no traffic it’s a complete waste of money

As a bike rider I’d never use the bridge the south side is a zigzag design

The engineers that designed this need to be terminated

An at grade crossing can positively benefit both sides for less capital investment if it is done properly. Northwest expressway has enough additional room for barrier protected bike lanes and a separate barrier protected walkway. With properly designed intersections and light signaling we could create a safer bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure covering more area and providing help for more people with the money we have invested into this bridge. This bridge is a barrier for the physically disabled and elderly and has no lifts to help mitigate that. In a fantasy world yeah we could have a network of bicycle paths and sidewalks elevated above traffic, but the political will and capital is never going to be available. I think as a city we should try to do the most we can with our tax dollars.

I agree with everything said in this comment

OKC has no clue about proper pedestrian planning

NW EXPRESSWAY is not a highway in the city it is a 6 lane road with a ton of stop lights and does not need a pedestrian bridge at any intersection as there is very little pedestrian traffic

I drove under it a few days ago for the first time. Approaching it, it doesn't even appear to be level. It makes the wing decoration on it look peculiar.