It looks like the Diversion Hub is looking at Gatewood Elementary School. https://www.facebook.com/events/3343715265646545/

It looks like the Diversion Hub is looking at Gatewood Elementary School. https://www.facebook.com/events/3343715265646545/

That is...not going to be a popular move for a single-family residential neighborhood.

I don't understand. Are they proposing the diversion hub locate at Gatewood or is that just the venue for a stakeholder engagement meeting? Whoever writes their stuff on Facebook needs to be more clear.

For some reason I thought I'd heard that Trinity School might be moving to the Gatewood building. Did I just imagine that?

My wife and I live on Carey Place, half block from Gatewood Elementary. We have 2 young boys, 2 1/2 and 8 weeks. We are not at all ok with this. I am all for this to be a part of Maps 4, but to put this, in an old school, in the middle of an up and coming neighborhood is not ok. I want to be able to help as much as possible but I also don't want to live a half block from a facility like this. Would this fly in the middle of Crown Heights, Mesta Park, Heritage Hills?

To be honest, I think the old school at 10th and Kentucky is a much better location. That site is also available and would do wonders for the continued redevelopment of 10th st.

Yeah I'm a little confused by this. There was an announcement on the Gatewood page on Nextdoor that they were going to have a meeting with a prospective tenant who wanted to keep their status private. Naturally, people were wondering why they would keep their status private and the person who posted about it said that the school is not going to become a homeless shelter or halfway house. This sure sounds like a halfway house to me, unless I'm misunderstanding the Diversion Hub's mission.

Everyone wants a diversion hub; just not in my neighborhood?

The diversion hub rehab members are receiving extra help, counseling & assistance to ensure their success when released back into the general population.

Apparently, we can't let go of stigmatizing ex-offenders who aren't sex-offenders or people who could cause that type of harm or risk to the general population.


Forgive Just as God in Christ Also Has Forgiven You
Palm Sunday

Resource by John Piper

Scripture: Ephesians 4:32–5:2 Topic: Forgiveness

And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

Let's find a place where the Diversion Hub will be welcomed without controversy; let's not set it up for failure.

MAPS 4 Diversion Hub: https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-4/diversion-hub

https://www.ok.gov/odmhsas/Substance_Abuse/Criminal_Justice_Services_/index.html

Let's find a place where the Diversion Hub will be welcomed without controversy; let's not set it up for failure.

My wife and I live on Carey Place, half block from Gatewood Elementary. We have 2 young boys, 2 1/2 and 8 weeks. We are not at all ok with this. I am all for this to be a part of Maps 4, but to put this, in an old school, in the middle of an up and coming neighborhood is not ok. I want to be able to help as much as possible but I also don't want to live a half block from a facility like this. Would this fly in the middle of Crown Heights, Mesta Park, Heritage Hills?

To be honest, I think the old school at 10th and Kentucky is a much better location. That site is also available and would do wonders for the continued redevelopment of 10th st.

This was my thought other than the up and coming. Gatewood elem is very much in the center of an all residential neighborhood (up and coming or not). It isn't a school on a major street like the one on 10th which does make more sense. Just seems like a bad fit for any residential neighborhood.

I don't know what the DH is supposed to look/feel like, but would an adaptive reuse of the county jail be a good fit for the DH if a new prison gets built before the funds are collected for the hub?

Wait.... is this NIMBYism? I thought that only happened in Edmond

Per board member Mark Mann, as of close of business today, the diversion hub has withdrawn their proposal for Gatewood Elementary.

I’m sure there was a ton of blowback from the neighborhood on this one. Especially since it was withdrawn after plans were made public less than 24 hrs ago.

Per board member Mark Mann, as of close of business today, the diversion hub has withdrawn their proposal for Gatewood Elementary.

I’m sure there was a ton of blowback from the neighborhood on this one. Especially since it was withdrawn after plans were made public less than 24 hrs ago.

as there should have been it would have been very bad for property values in that neighborhood

So, NIMBYism is bad if it exists in other neighborhoods, but smart if it’s happening in your own. Why isn’t this a matter of the greater good? I hope this example puts an end to the misplaced accusations of NIMBYism overall as the high ground has been ceded.

Everyone's a NIMBY when it's personal. Most anyone would resist a sewage treatment plant next to their house. If we agree on that, anything else is just negotiation and degrees.

So, NIMBYism is bad if it exists in other neighborhoods, but smart if it’s happening in your own. Why isn’t this a matter of the greater good? I hope this example puts an end to the misplaced accusations of NIMBYism overall as the high ground has been ceded.

significant difference in not wanting something that hurts you property value that is actually in your neighborhood vs not wanting something because it is a change like the guyutees example

or HH neighbors not wanting things in midtown ...

Everyone's a NIMBY when it's personal. Most anyone would resist a sewage treatment plant next to their house. If we agree on that, anything else is just negotiation and degrees.
Very well said, Jerry.

significant difference in not wanting something that hurts you property value that is actually in your neighborhood vs not wanting something because it is a change like the guyutees example

or HH neighbors not wanting things in midtown ...

Wrong! They all claim it hurts their property values or causes harm to them. Don’t just draw arbitrary lines and say it’s okay here but not 1/4 mile further, or justify otherwise. It’s all protectionism.

Everyone's a NIMBY when it's personal. Most anyone would resist a sewage treatment plant next to their house. If we agree on that, anything else is just negotiation and degrees.

Very true. It’s like the saying on economic hardship....it’s a recession if your neighbor is unemployed, and it’s a depression if you are unemployed.

Wait.... is this NIMBYism? I thought that only happened in Edmond

NIMBYism happens everywhere. Some Gatewood residents were against Classen 16. There was also pushback from some to Anatomy Wine bar opening up on 16th.

Currently, the Linwood community is losing their minds over a tri plex proposal on 18th. I don’t think anyone is saying NIMBYs only reside in Edmond.

I would say that in this one instance, the NIMBYs had a a valid point. Putting this facility in an old residential grade school was not a very well thought idea.

Wait.... is this NIMBYism? I thought that only happened in Edmond

Where has anyone ever said this?

There are hundreds of projects in the core that have received some degree of protest and we've discussed here in great detail.


Please stop with the endless lectures.

as there should have been it would have been very bad for property values in that neighborhood

How does the abandoned school with three foot tall weeds affect property values?

From Lamarmie's link : the "“Diversion Hub” [is] to assist low-level offenders in establishing a more productive life". The entire point is to support these folks and help get them back on the right track and be productive members of the community. It sounds like a good plan.

How does the abandoned school with three foot tall weeds affect property values?

From Lamarmie's link : the "“Diversion Hub” [is] to assist low-level offenders in establishing a more productive life". The entire point is to support these folks and help get them back on the right track and be productive members of the community. It sounds like a good plan.


this isn't 0 sum there are much better uses for that property

Everyone's a NIMBY when it's personal. Most anyone would resist a sewage treatment plant next to their house. If we agree on that, anything else is just negotiation and degrees.
I don't think opposing projects automatically makes you a NIMBY. You might find it ironic me of all people making that statement, but certain projects come out better because of opposition and developers working with surrounding community to enhance it. It's when they oppose just about anything other than the typical strip mall and half acre subdivision lots just to maintain their little bubble of peace and serenity.

How does the abandoned school with three foot tall weeds affect property values?

From Lamarmie's link : the "“Diversion Hub” [is] to assist low-level offenders in establishing a more productive life". The entire point is to support these folks and help get them back on the right track and be productive members of the community. It sounds like a good plan.

The school isn’t dilapidated, it’s been “abandoned” for (1) month of a school year. The playground/park is highly utilized by many everyday. The city missed a couple of weeks with weed eating and then people from the neighborhood remedied that on our own. No 3ft weeds in sight. Certainly not an abandoned piece of property bringing down home values. I can assure you home values in Gatewood are doing just fine.

As Boulder said, the option isn’t zero sum. More from Mark Mann:


I am certain that the Gatewood location remains a desirable property for several groups working with youth in Oklahoma City, and I am confident we will in the near future find a tenant that fits well with the neighborhood.

I think it’s a fair point for the neighborhood to want to pass on this and wait for the right tenant for Gatewood Elementary.

That's fine. No one ever said it was zero sum. Using the building for a couple years to help poor folks navigate the criminal legal system and get their lives back together while the organization builds a new facility would not hurt property values, either. Of course there are higher and better uses for the building, namely a school.

Gatewood is so close to OCU it seems like a no brainer for it to be student-affordable housing or related.

An elementary school in a neighborhood that is not on a section line or flow through street is a clear benefit for close by property owners. Conversely, a social services facility of the size that would utilize a school building would be a bad fit. Section line roads provide better access to transportation, simplistic as that sounds. Gatewood (school and neighborhood) deserve to wait for the best fit.

Way back in the 1990s and I lived in the midtown area, we were told that the federal government had decided that concentration of social services in the urban core was harming cities, and they were requiring some kind of distance between these agencies. And that was supposedly how we wound up with services that required a person to travel as far as 15 miles from the Unit Block downtown with multiple stops in the same day. It appears the pendulum is swinging the other way and centralization of services is desired today.

Where has anyone ever said this?

There are hundreds of projects in the core that have received some degree of protest and we've discussed here in great detail.


Please stop with the endless lectures.
Come on Pete, you know how often nimby is stated and Edmond, NH and HH is immediately invoked. Here is a case of it and it’s crickets. If this happened in one of the aforementioned neighborhoods we would see outcry. I just don’t like double standards either way.

Not In My Back Yard (NIMBY) has always been a concern when projects are proposed to be set up in old schools that no longer serve the purpose of a school. We should have seen this coming; established neighborhoods where fewer school age children exist, the patrons don't support bond or millage levies anymore. They want the school districts to maintain upkeep on these structures.

Yet, we don't want abandoned schools to be demolished; nor do we want them to become rundown & dilapidated. Neighborhoods change throughout times, a younger generation buys the older homes, fixes them up and a need for a school resurfaces. Yes, it's a cycle we've seen in our lifetimes.

There is an area were a Diversion Hub would have more success.

https://kfcengineering.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/northcare_int_sm.jpg?w=807&h=&zoom=2

We've seen a development called NorthCare (2617 General Pershing Blvd) just east of State Fair Park serves inpatient & outpatient care, there's land being redeveloped in that area (2600 General Pershing Blvd: https://www.google.com/maps/place/2600+General+Pershing+Blvd,+Oklahoma+City,+OK+7310 7/@35.4722511,-97.5611584,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x87b210f06eb1765f:0xd7f30 6048a9dd72d!8m2!3d35.4722511!4d-97.5589697?hl=en

This would be a good site to tailor a facility from the ground up to fit the needs of a Diversion Hub.

There are a number of facilities in that area; city maintains continuous clean-up of trash & debris on those parcels. If you're in the area drive thru and see all the exciting things going on in the area.

Not In My Back Yard (NIMBY) has always been a concern when projects are proposed to be set up in old schools that no longer serve the purpose of a school. We should have seen this coming; established neighborhoods where fewer school age children exist, the patrons don't support bond or millage levies anymore. They want the school districts to maintain upkeep on these structures.

Yet, we don't want abandoned schools to be demolished; nor do we want them to become rundown & dilapidated. Neighborhoods change throughout times, a younger generation buys the older homes, fixes them up and a need for a school resurfaces. Yes, it's a cycle we've seen in our lifetimes.

There is an area were a Diversion Hub would have more success.

https://kfcengineering.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/northcare_int_sm.jpg?w=807&h=&zoom=2

We've seen a development called NorthCare (2617 General Pershing Blvd) just east of State Fair Park serves inpatient & outpatient care, there's land being redeveloped in that area (2600 General Pershing Blvd: https://www.google.com/maps/place/2600+General+Pershing+Blvd,+Oklahoma+City,+OK+7310 7/@35.4722511,-97.5611584,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x87b210f06eb1765f:0xd7f30 6048a9dd72d!8m2!3d35.4722511!4d-97.5589697?hl=en

This would be a good site to tailor a facility from the ground up to fit the needs of a Diversion Hub.

There are a number of facilities in that area; city maintains continuous clean-up of trash & debris on those parcels. If you're in the area drive thru and see all the exciting things going on in the area.

Well, here's my NIMBY-The location of that photo is about 500ft from where I am typing this. In the 1/2 mile stretch from that NorthCare campus going east we have; inpatient psychiatric hospital, outpatient mental health services, Variety Care, ReMerge female diversion program, Positive Tomorrows school for homeless children, a new homeless shelter on the SE corner of Villa & General Pershing (that I recall reading is not church affiliated or sober living commitment), an existing low income housing complex, and the forthcoming ASTEC School campus.

I am not thrilled at the rise in homeless people and aimless pedestrian traffic. But, it isn't a real problem. More a nuisance.

I am concerned about the geographic concentration of elementary school age children with the adults facing so many sources of challenges.

Well, here's my NIMBY-The location of that photo is about 500ft from where I am typing this. In the 1/2 mile stretch from that NorthCare campus going east we have; inpatient psychiatric hospital, outpatient mental health services, Variety Care, ReMerge female diversion program, Positive Tomorrows school for homeless children, a new homeless shelter on the SE corner of Villa & General Pershing (that I recall reading is not church affiliated or sober living commitment), an existing low income housing complex, and the forthcoming ASTEC School campus.

I am not thrilled at the rise in homeless people and aimless pedestrian traffic. But, it isn't a real problem. More a nuisance.

I am concerned about the geographic concentration of elementary school age children with the adults facing so many sources of challenges.

The area from N.W. 10th street & Meridian to Broadway has a high concentration of police presence.

The Astec school campus isn't within 300 feet is where most boundary ordinances that protect schools. NorthCare campus has been at this site for a number of years--long before the proposed development of Astec--so who's encroaching upon who.

We heard these same concerns with the Salvation Army Center at 10th & Pennsylvania; the homeless would be a caravan of zombies let loose on the community.

Would you prefer to spread out the centers or have them concentrated in one area, since some proponents of NIMBY now wants to claim the whole city. If you want to face a real problem, ignore the services these centers provide for our city's homeless or those down on their luck.

Where are there any elementary school concerns in the General Pershing area within 300 feet of a school?

Not sure what 10th & Broadway to Meridian having a police presence relates to this?

Positive Tomorrows is an elementary school currently being finished that is located on the eastern portion of the NorthCare property. The ASTEC plan has been in the works as long as the NorthCare campus has, IIRC.

I believe the thinking about concentrating “social services” in a certain area has evolved through the years. I was told in the 1990s that the federal government wanted services spread out around metro areas. Both to protect certain areas from over concentration, and to make the access burden equal from all areas.

I think the intent in OKC has been to move them out of our vibrant and improving downtown and place as much as possible in this Pennsylvania to May Avenue corridor. It is primarily an aging commercial and industrial area without much hope of gentrification in the future.

Don’t mean I got to like it. And it is in my backyard. Since 1982.

Not sure what 10th & Broadway to Meridian having a police presence relates to this?

Positive Tomorrows is an elementary school currently being finished that is located on the eastern portion of the NorthCare property. The ASTEC plan has been in the works as long as the NorthCare campus has, IIRC.

I believe the thinking about concentrating “social services” in a certain area has evolved through the years. I was told in the 1990s that the federal government wanted services spread out around metro areas. Both to protect certain areas from over concentration, and to make the access burden equal from all areas.

I think the intent in OKC has been to move them out of our vibrant and improving downtown and place as much as possible in this Pennsylvania to May Avenue corridor. It is primarily an aging commercial and industrial area without much hope of gentrification in the future.

Don’t mean I got to like it. And it is in my backyard. Since 1982.

Just saying there's more of a police presence in that area in case an emergency requires police dispatch.

Would also be in the best interest of the city not to over concentrate too many of any one thing in an area.

Don't know the solutions or answers because like you, I can see the interest in making these service related projects succeed--without over concentration in a particular area.

The Diversion Hub could probably help people in this type of situation:

Good Samaritans contribute to clear Oklahoma woman's debt from 2010 arrest for $31 marijuana sale (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/good-samaritans-contribute-to-clear-oklahoma-woman-s-debt-from/article_54b8a4e9-afe4-567a-b52a-74f4eb51aed5.html)

The grass at Gatewood Elementary hasn't been mowed in weeks. Today, it is as tall as the bench seats by the playground. Maybe Pete can take some pictures or the OK Gazette can do a story on the failure of OKCPS to maintain the the grounds of the schools that closed.

To be located on the southeast corner of Linwood and Ellison:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diversion072823g.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diversion072823.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diversion072823a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diversion072823b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diversion072823d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diversion072823e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diversion072823f.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diversion080523a.jpg

Hoping this building does well in its intended purpose. Would there also be any housing that would go up around this for people that are simultaneously receiving assistance here? Or is that not really part of the scope of this building?

It is interesting to ponder about what Linwood Blvd could look like in a decade or so--there already is the whole Edgecraft/Dead People's complex anchoring the western end. Projects like this are going to add more infill to the eastern end. I will say that looking at the picture, it seems like they should remove the Linwood Diagonal. Not seeing the need a four lane one-way street here. Better to restore the grid, in my opinion.

The land is being cleared, and the sign is up. Construction will start soon.

19212

The land is being cleared, and the sign is up. Construction will start soon.It's interesting that this is still being built at this location, given that the jail may be moving eastward.

The land is being cleared, and the sign is up. Construction will start soon.

19212

Thanks for taking a picture of the sign, have been driving past this and kept meaning to stop/search OKC talk for what was going on here. They have started dirtwork already.

Thanks for taking a picture of the sign, have been driving past this and kept meaning to stop/search OKC talk for what was going on here. They have started dirtwork already.

They have made a ton of progress already since that photo. Dirt work is well on its way.

Anyone know what is going in just south of here on the other side of Linwood? Looks like 4 stories of steel frame.

Anyone know what is going in just south of here on the other side of Linwood? Looks like 4 stories of steel frame.

BMS Homes "Brady Smith Homes" posted on their Instagram: "Team effort. Progress is happening on this unique build in downtown okc. Happy to be working along side Task Design and hands on owner!"

So it is a Private Residence.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diversion112324a.jpg