Nearly 70 percent voting yes with 20 percent of precincts reporting. You can almost call it

It is pretty much going to pass, congratulations to all who voted yes, I saw pictures of Thunder arena expansion and it looks nice even though I am not a Thunder fan and the other improvements in other areas like streets, etc etc will be much needed

This is going to pass with the largest margin of any of the MAPS initiatives, perhaps surpassing the Maps For Kids vote by a full +10%. Wow. Looks like OKC really was hungry for people-centric investment!

Nearly 70 percent voting yes with 20 percent of precincts reporting. You can almost call it

You can definitely call it. It's over.

Remember those who were saying the city must be nervous due to the heavy campaigning even though all polling data showed it passing in a landslide? Well, remember to ignore their insights in the future.

People must be generally satisfied with MAPS 3. The streetcar seems like the most divisive aspect of it, but I think everybody liked the park. And the convention center and Omni hotel look really impressive, even if they aren't open yet.

So following on an apparently successful MAPS 3, and then a bunch of needed community-oriented projects (i.e., not really entertainment focused) looks to be a recipe for success.

Lfggggggggggg

This is going to pass with the largest margin of any of the MAPS initiatives, perhaps surpassing the Maps For Kids vote by a full +10%. Wow. Looks like OKC really was hungry for people-centric investment!

Agree with this.

Also, there never really seemed to be any sort of organized effort put together by people who were against the initiative. I live in Ward 2, which obviously puts me squarely in the center of the portion of the city which you would expect to support the initiative, but I've also driven pretty much all over the city over the past few weeks, and I'm not sure I can remember seeing a single sign opposing the initiative.

Maps 3 had 76K vote. This appears way less it was a bad time to have it imo. It will pass but with a very small vote its not a mandate.

There are 328k voters total who can vote. So far 28k have voted with 69% of precincts thats small

Maps 3 had 76K vote. This appears way less it was a bad time to have it imo. It will pass but with a very small vote its not a mandate.

There are 328k voters total who can vote. So far 28k have voted with 69% of precincts thats small

Welcome to local elections. If you want something eye-opening to complain about, you should see the percent of people who vote in our city council elections.....

30k with 78% in.

Its a sad day this vote will be 10% of all voters eligible and less than half the vote as Maps3

It will be legal but a shame voters don’t vote. Sad

Welcome to local elections. If you want something eye-opening to complain about, you should see the percent of people who vote in our city council elections.....

I understand but unless big precincts come in its half of Maps 3

I think timing is bad to get voters out

30k with 78% in.

Its a sad day this vote will be 10% of all voters eligible and less than half the vote as Maps3

It will be legal but a shame voters don’t vote. Sad

So sad. So very, very sad. OKC citizens should be forever embarrassed - and filled with a deep sense of shame, sorrow, and grief - that this outcome did not turn out the way OKC Guy has wanted from page 1 of this thread. ;)

I think every voter should vote. I don't get upset if they don't. The citizens who voted will be noted. I rode 2 buses to vote.

Maps 3 had 76K vote. This appears way less it was a bad time to have it imo. It will pass but with a very small vote its not a mandate.

There are 328k voters total who can vote. So far 28k have voted with 69% of precincts thats small

70% is absolutely a mandate, regardless of the number of votes cast. I would expect a similar ratio if the turnout was triple today’s numbers.

Mandate doesn't even make sense as a concept here. There's an expectation in the public that if MAPS 4 passes then the MAPS 4 stuff will be delivered... even if it was by a single vote. Again, OKC Guy never wanted MAPS 4 and is now shifting the goal post to concerns with democracy and democratic processes that don't apply.

70% is absolutely a mandate, regardless of the number of votes cast. I would expect a similar ratio if the turnout was triple today’s numbers.

Wrong

Wrong

Go on...

I honestly don't understand the argument being made here. Are you saying that the city should just do something different with the money than was discussed in the lead up to the election because you think the turn out was too low?

Almost 30K less votes than the MAPS 3 vote ten years ago. That's pretty staggering, and sad. I wonder if all the money behind the ads regret going so hard in the paint when it seems now (yes after the fact) it was never in jeopardy.

It’s going to be the largest margin in the history of MAPS. If this isn’t a mandate I don’t know what is.

It is every citizen's civic duty to vote. If you argue that low voter turnout negates an election you need proof. I took the bus to the polls. The bus ride was free.

Look, I think higher voter turn out is a good thing. However, low voter turnout can also be associated with trust and satisfaction in local government and MAPS in general. I suspect that the shiny new park and convention center don't hurt at all... it's good timing that there's a lot to show from MAPS 3. This election just seemed to have little controversy and general satisfaction with MAPS, and those things may be reasons for lower turnout. I just don't know if depression is needed...

So sad. So very, very sad. OKC citizens should be forever embarrassed - and filled with a deep sense of shame, sorrow, and grief - that this outcome did not turn out the way OKC Guy has wanted from page 1 of this thread. ;)

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

Development that would've gone somewhere else in the City.

And the people behind that development, are the ones putting the big money into putting this one over on the taxpayers.

These condos selling at $400/sq. ft. wouldn't have worked anywhere else. There's a huge amount of construction already happening around the route and tons more to come. I predict in 20 years from now, the streetcar will be one of the most effective MAPS projects at bringing in new development.

It is every citizen's civic duty to vote. If you argue that low voter turnout negates an election you need proof. I took the bus to the polls. The bus ride was free.


Where did I say “negates it”?

Mandate means you have huge support. It passed but less than 8% voted for it with 4% against. That means 88% of voters didn’t vote. Its not a mandate even though it passed.

We haven't even got to cold days yet.

Go on...

I honestly don't understand the argument being made here. Are you saying that the city should just do something different with the money than was discussed in the lead up to the election because you think the turn out was too low?

a) a mandate would require far more than 30k yes votes out of 328k voters

b) a mandate implies that the winner has earned some sort of political capital that could be spent on a mavericky set of policies (i.e., Obamacare, taking a stab at Roe v. Wade, Green New Deal, etc.). Here, the City has no choice in the matter. If it is at all interested in the passage of MAPS 5, the only choice is to spend the money exactly as promised.

Again, the only thing that matters is whether it passed or not. Mandate is an irrelevant concept to this election.

Note: I am not contesting whether the MAPS process, voting day, or ballot bundling are problematic. That's just a different discussion.

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

A Presidential Election that is pretty meaningless in Oklahoma due to the electoral college. I have my doubts about the future success of these MAPS projects due to them being programs that require ongoing funding after completion, but not voting basically is saying yes to MAPS. The only people that showed up were the people voting for MAPS.

Its a yes or no question, the vote wasn't for a man or woman who is the lesser of two evils.

Ha ha, well maybe I should bow out of this discussion because David Holt literally just said in a video OKC released that "MAPS 4 has passed with an unprecedented mandate." I give up. I'll let y'all debate the important question here, does MAPS 4 have a mandate or not?

Video: https://twitter.com/cityofokc/status/1204600426189819904

My dad would argue that he showed up to vote no.

I canceled out his vote.

The Pott County vote didn’t seem to show up.

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

:doh:

I believe all the MAPS votes have taken place in special elections in December, so it's not just some timeline the city thought up this year, it's always been done this way (I think, I wasn't here for one of them), ever since 1993.

:doh:

I believe all the MAPS votes have taken place in special elections in December, so it's not just some timeline the city thought up this year, it's always been done this way (I think, I wasn't here for one of them), ever since 1993.

There is a reason it has always been done this way.

Out of curiosity I looked up the previous MAPS results, conveniently all listed on the MAPS Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Area_Projects_Plan):

MAPS
Yes 33,367 54.58
No 27,762 45.42
Total votes 61,129

MAPS 4 Kids
Yes 36,866 60.58
No 23,989 39.42
Total votes 60,855

MAPS 3
Yes 40,956 54.3
No 34,465 45.7
Total votes 75,421

And from tonight's results:

MAPS 4
Yes 31,865 71.7
No 12,574 28.3
Total votes 44,439

MAPS 3 is mildly an unfair comparison given it's unusually high turnout compared to the other MAPS votes. The Yes vote on 4 is similarly in line with MAPS, MAPS 4 Kids, and only a bit lower than MAPS 3. The real difference is that the No vote collapsed. Apparently people weren't inspired to come out for a No, just a Yes.

Not sure you need a mandate when you have the law on your side

It's probably also worth noting that the Soonerpoll results were pretty much right on the money.

I'm so divided on this - im happy it passed because i like most of the projects. Im also 100% disappointed in the low voter turnout as well as a completely non transparent, underhanded dealing by Mayor Holt and Company on the process.

I'm so divided on this - im happy it passed because i like most of the projects. Im also 100% disappointed in the low voter turnout as well as a completely non transparent, underhanded dealing by Mayor Holt and Company on the process.

Don't be disappointed about the low turnout, it mostly happened because we simply had less people show up to vote no.

I have a crazy thought.... maybe, just maybe, the big majority of OKC citizens actually approve of the Maps program and feel like the previous benefits were very positive and they want more. Wild thought that maybe most people are happy with the way things have turned out.

Voters approve MAPS 4 in a landslide: https://journalrecord.com/2019/12/10/voters-approve-maps-4-in-a-landslide/

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

The Russians influenced the date and the weather.

Denver's recent Mayoral race attracted 20% of the vote ON ELECTION DAY. some issues on the same ballot had less than .06% of the potential vote. Exactly where is the farcical/non-farcical vote line drawn?

The Russians influenced the date and the weather.

Ha, you win OKCTalk today! :)

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

I heard they were going to do a redo since they didn’t give any tax money to the anti maps campaign. Plus it was to cold for the vote to count.

https://i.imgur.com/pbp7OF2.png

Very interesting map. Looks like NW and NE OKC voted strongly in favor while the south side (both SW and SE) had much more tepid support. I wonder if that reflects the historical imbalance of who is perceived to have benefited from past MAPS programs.

I live in SW OKC and our roads are trash and have seen nothing in regards to MAPS. SW OKC has seen no benefit from MAPs and why the support is lower.

The opinion I have heard in SW OKC is to please fix the roads before spending $1B on new projects. The response from the city PA or MAPS supports is usually we did the MAPS for roads thing. The MAPS for roads may have fixed about 2% of the road issues in SW OKC.

I can't believe Lake Hefner didn't cast a vote. As a product of a public works project itself you'd think it would be more engaged.

Agree on the roads. My understanding is they have the money but will take time to get to all of them. Don’t quote me on that.

It passed. I’m very disappointed voters don’t get put and vote. Less than 10% of our voting population approved a 1 cent tax that will last 8 years long.

Overall my Maps votes/stances:

Maps1: Yes! Loved it major transformation
Maps2: Yes! Same
Maps3: Yes but did not like SC. Loved all other projects
Maps4: No. But to clarify I like most of the infrastructure items. Like the Soccer stadium and Peake improvements. Like the Fair improvements. Not so much the rest due mainly to future funding. Did not like it being 8 years, wanted to see 2 year project votes to allow for changes as we grow smartly (we don’t need what we did back in 90’s). Would have loved to see Aquarium this would have been a major attraction for tourists.

All on all its fine and I won’t lose sleep. Just because I disagree with some projects doesn’t mean I hate Maps as some seem to think. Its still good for the city although this approval ties our hands until 2030. Think about those next 10 years and all the changes we’ll have. I expect the new hot spot hub to move westward and northward from downtown and it will be interesting how we keep more than one district flush with spending for businesses. Bricktown has always had top billing so the key is growing yet sustaining.

I am more disappointed with only 12 or so percent of our voters getting out to vote. All in all we’ll still improve the city but perhaps we left some meat on the bone.

To compare to the previous MAPS vote:

MAPS3
YES 40,956 (54.30%); NO 34,465 (45.70%)

MAPS4
YES 31,865 (71.71%); NO 12,574 (28.29%)


41% fewer voters this time even though the city's population has grown since the MAPS3 election.

I live in SW OKC and our roads are trash and have seen nothing in regards to MAPS. SW OKC has seen no benefit from MAPs and why the support is lower.

The opinion I have heard in SW OKC is to please fix the roads before spending $1B on new projects. The response from the city PA or MAPS supports is usually we did the MAPS for roads thing. The MAPS for roads may have fixed about 2% of the road issues in SW OKC.

Roads are not fixed by MAPS, never have been, there never was a "MAPS for roads". The money for road-fixing comes from a different source than MAPS and it can't be used for MAPS and MAPS money can't be used for roads, there were/are GO Bonds and Better Streets, Safer City for road-fixing.

Two things likely played a part. There weren’t any exciting single issues to stir up voters. No park, no streetcar, no convention center (for people to vote against��). Voters are so accustomed to MAPS always passing that only we worriers and those opposed to taxes voted.

To compare to the previous MAPS vote:

MAPS3
YES 40,956 (54.30%); NO 34,465 (45.70%)

MAPS4
YES 31,865 (71.71%); NO 12,574 (28.29%)


41% fewer voters this time even though the city's population has grown since the MAPS3 election.

A full 2/3s of the difference in overall votes cast is the no vote collapsing.

Roads are not fixed by MAPS, never have been, there never was a "MAPS for roads". The money for road-fixing comes from a different source than MAPS and it can't be used for MAPS and MAPS money can't be used for roads, there were/are GO Bonds and Better Streets, Safer City for road-fixing.


I meant the better streets bond not MAPS. The issue remains the same with SW OKC. We pay taxes and don't see (or barely see) any benefit.

I meant the better streets bond not MAPS. The issue remains the same with SW OKC. We pay taxes and don't see (or barely see) any benefit.

I'll agree with that, but it's not just SW OKC, it's the north inner part of the city too. Since we moved from NW 164th/May to NW 36th/May, we've found that the streets around us and where we go (generally in a 4-5 mile radius) aren't kept up nearly as well as they should be, and nowhere near as nice as they are further north.

MAPS has built its own brand with the help of previous MAPS. The major key was the MAPS for Kids (Metro schools benefited); now some of those voters who supported MAPS for Kids weren't eligible to vote it this election; however, they do remember what it did for metro schools.

It will take a long time to improve OKC Public Schools' academics after years of neglect. Having the basics, like air conditioned buildings helped the classroom environment. The early branding helped get MAPS 3 over the speed bump. Not surprised MAPS 4 passed with 70% approval--with 16 projects, it had something for everyone.

Getting back to Travelers' point: The Better Streets, Safer City Bonds initiative will solve many of the street concerns (SW,SE) by the time OKC rolls out MAPS 5 (2028). In effect, the MAPS brand was the shield that affected the 'No' vote. It will kill the 'No' vote in future elections. Voters have little interest to end MAPS; they like the fact that they have a voice in the capital improvements process.

I meant the better streets bond not MAPS. The issue remains the same with SW OKC. We pay taxes and don't see (or barely see) any benefit.

What has NW and NE OKC received from MAPS that has been kept from SW OKC? What would you like to see from MAPS that would benefit SW OKC in the future?

Roads are not fixed by MAPS, never have been, there never was a "MAPS for roads". The money for road-fixing comes from a different source than MAPS and it can't be used for MAPS and MAPS money can't be used for roads, there were/are GO Bonds and Better Streets, Safer City for road-fixing.

this is not true the current "maps tax" (that extended the maps3 tax) that maps 4 continues was for Better Streets safer city which was for 27 months and provided 240 total and 168 for street resurfacing

this was in addition to the 967 mil bond packaged that was voted on and passed the same day that had 491 mil for streets and sidewalks

https://www.okc.gov/residents/better-streets-safer-city-projects/temporary-penny-sales-tax-extension

https://www.okc.gov/residents/better-streets-safer-city-projects/bond-package

this is not true the current "maps tax" (that extended the maps3 tax) that maps 4 continues was for Better Streets safer city which was for 27 months and provided 240 total and 168 for street resurfacing

this was in addition to the 967 mil bond packaged that was voted on and passed the same day that had 491 mil for streets and sidewalks

https://www.okc.gov/residents/better-streets-safer-city-projects/temporary-penny-sales-tax-extension

https://www.okc.gov/residents/better-streets-safer-city-projects/bond-package

Yes, we're both right. Better Streets, Safer City continued the MAPS3 tax, but was not called MAPS-anything, so it's not a "MAPS for roads".