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Urban Pioneer
12-09-2019, 09:45 PM
The Chamber raises funds for campaigns from its members. No city funds or budgets can be expended for political campaigns. These funds are managed through a campaign committee independent of the chamber itself. The city however does contract with the chamber for economic development assistance and other business.

Mott
12-09-2019, 09:47 PM
Good question. I have no idea. But the Lost Ogle piece mentioning her today was pretty funny....

https://www.thelostogle.com/2019/12/09/7-reasons-to-vote-yes-on-maps-4ever/?fbclid=IwAR0RF9LxWxihV8qzuF4q3aDXtbVdzHIN2oHcL-1K_UuTCuLWXTN9iHQEFDU

Well funny, but I’d say it was pretty good take on the Hefner’s. A liberal agenda? So trying to make OKC better is a liberal agenda, that’s pretty small..

Urban Pioneer
12-09-2019, 09:50 PM
Progress isnt neoliberal economic development, progress is jobeth

I find it fascinating that JoBeth voted in support of MAPS 4 and is a supporter of many of its initiatives. She attended our PAWS for MAPS 4 GOTV event the other night and we are grateful for her support.

soonerguru
12-09-2019, 11:56 PM
Why are they allowed to spend tax dollars to lobby for a new tax? And all these flyers cost some decent money. Should be required to give an equal amount to opposition to keep it fair. Who authorizes these expenditures and with other city agencies lacking budgets to boot.

Tax dollars are not spent on the campaign.

soonerguru
12-09-2019, 11:58 PM
Well funny, but I’d say it was pretty good take on the Hefner’s. A liberal agenda? So trying to make OKC better is a liberal agenda, that’s pretty small..

I know, lol. As the Lost Ogle made clear, her opposition is one of the strongest arguments to support the initiative. It is entertaining to read the 500-person FB page. An abundance of tinfoil and resentment.

soonerguru
12-10-2019, 12:01 AM
Is the city actually funding anything to do with the campaign, or is it the Chamber? I feel like that is an assumption that shouldn't go unchallenged.

No. The city does not fund the campaign. City department heads are actually mute about it, even if they are beneficiaries of some of the projects. It's actually quite ridiculous (although I agree tax dollars should not be spent on campaigning).

soonerguru
12-10-2019, 12:04 AM
I’ve noticed the City is quick to delete dissenting voices from the various social media channels. Seems like very odd behavior if “yes” is so sure to win.


What? Please provide specific examples.

chuck5815
12-10-2019, 06:21 AM
What? Please provide specific examples.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/maps-4-drawing-praise-and-criticism-comments-being-hidden

Anonymous.
12-10-2019, 08:13 AM
During the Thunder broadcast last night, they plugged a Yes for MAPS Vote.

LocoAko
12-10-2019, 08:25 AM
There were actually a fair number of people at my polling place this morning at 7:20AM. And by a "fair number" I mean 3 or 4, but usually in these local elections I'm the only voter to be found the entire time I swing by.

David
12-10-2019, 08:43 AM
No. The city does not fund the campaign. City department heads are actually mute about it, even if they are beneficiaries of some of the projects. It's actually quite ridiculous (although I agree tax dollars should not be spent on campaigning).

I thought so, which means the statement that has been repeated for several pages about the city funding the campaign is at best a misunderstanding. At worst it's a complete lie, but I'd like to believe better than that.


https://okcfox.com/news/local/maps-4-drawing-praise-and-criticism-comments-being-hidden

Hidden tweets are hardly something to get all worked up about. They aren't permanently gone, the tweet they are a reply to will tell you that it has hidden replies, and you can click through to see them.

Anyway, ballot number 19 in my precinct this morning, hopefully the day goes well. I'm particularly curious to see how the end result matches up to the Soonerpoll polling.

jedicurt
12-10-2019, 09:23 AM
https://okcfox.com/news/local/maps-4-drawing-praise-and-criticism-comments-being-hidden

so who runs this twitter account? is it the city? if not, then the city isn't hiding them

OKC Guy
12-10-2019, 09:23 AM
I dug the last flyer out of my trash can. It states

“Authorized and paid for by Citizens for MAPS 4”

Anyone know how they are funded? I have to assume its privately funded. Would be nice to know who bankrolls the flyers behind the scenes. Mainly to know if anyone who would benefit from approval ($$$) is part of that group.

I was #66 in far NW OKC at 7:45. I know a lot out this way are against. I voted to give myself a 1% merit increase on all my spending the next 8 years. Not every day you can vote to give yourself a pay raise. If it does fail (please) then maybe they can come back with something like Aquarium as shorter stand alone tax, I would vote for that.

OKC Guy
12-10-2019, 09:26 AM
so who runs this twitter account? is it the city? if not, then the city isn't hiding them

I went to and read the article and it even stated the Mayor hides tweets. Can’t get any higher than that.

Pete
12-10-2019, 09:33 AM
COALITION MEMBERS
As of 12-9-19

ADG
American Quarter Horse Association
Arabian Horse Association
Arnall Family Foundation
Associated Builders and Contractors of Oklahoma
Automobile Alley Association
Black Chamber of Commerce of Metro Oklahoma City
Boys & Girls Clubs of Oklahoma County
Bricktown Association
The CARE Center- Child Abuse Response and Evaluation Center
Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City
CEC Corporation
CLS & Associates, LLC
CSS Partners
Center for Employment Opportunity (CEO)
Central Oklahoma Commercial Association of REALTORS
Central Oklahoma Home Builders Association
Central Oklahoma Labor Federation AFL-CIO
Central Oklahoma Youth Lacrosse
City Care Center
Classen Inn Motel
Communities Foundation of Oklahoma
deadCenter film
Downtown OKC
Endurance Girls Lacrosse
Energy FC
Express Employment Professionals
Fraternal Order of Police - OKC
Fowler Automotive
Freedom Center
FSB Architects and Engineers
Greater Oklahoma City Chamber
GSB Inc. Architects & Planners
Halff Associates
HNTB Corporation
Houston Financial
Humphreys Capital
Inasmuch Foundation
Iron Workers Local 48 - OKC
Jenifer Reynolds/Sandbur Productions LLC
Jim Cowan & Associates
Keep Oklahoma Beautiful
Laborers International Union of North America - Local 107
Latino Community Development Agency
Mason Realty Investors
McAfee & Taft
Midtown Association
NAACP
National Reining Horse Association
Neighborhood Alliance of Central Oklahoma, Inc.
NewView Oklahoma
North OKC Soccer Club
Northwest OKC Chamber
OKC Beautiful
OKC Black Eats, LLC
OKC Lacrosse Club
OKC Metropolitan Assoc. of Realtors
OKC Police Athletic League
Oklahoma Alliance for Public Transportation
Oklahoma Bicycle Society
Oklahoma Building and Construction Trades Council
Oklahoma City Firefighters, Local 157
Oklahoma Municipal Contractors Association
Oklahoma Soccer Association
Oklahoma State Fair / OKC Fairgrounds
Oklahoma Transit Association
Oklahoma Youth Expo
Painted Door Boutique
Palomar: Oklahoma City's Family Justice Center
ParkingWhisperer
Pivot, Inc.
Plaza District Shopping Center
Plumbers & Pipefitters - Local 344
Positive Tomorrows
Rand Elliot Architects
Rep. Cyndi Munson
Score OKC
SendaRide
Smith & Pickel Construction, Inc.
Social Order Dining Collective
South Oklahoma City Chamber
Special Olympics Oklahoma
The Grand National & World Championship Morgan Horse Show
The Homeless Alliance
Tree Bank Foundation
Uptown 23rd District Association
VOICE Action Fund
Yale Theater
YMCA of Greater Oklahoma City
YWCA Oklahoma City
ZFI Engineering Co.

jedicurt
12-10-2019, 09:36 AM
I went to and read the article and it even stated the Mayor hides tweets. Can’t get any higher than that.

again, we are talking about hiding tweets, that are easily clicked on and viewed. not deleting them.

chuck5815
12-10-2019, 09:46 AM
again, we are talking about hiding tweets, that are easily clicked on and viewed. not deleting them.

from what I understand, Holt has also been deleting instagram comments on his posts which cannot be viewed by 3rd parties once deleted.

OKC Guy
12-10-2019, 09:48 AM
again, we are talking about hiding tweets, that are easily clicked on and viewed. not deleting them.

So, I don’t have twitter but save twitter names in safari so can view tweets. I have no option to view these that I know of.

David
12-10-2019, 09:59 AM
Well, that is your fault for using Twitter in a weird way. It may be true that an anonymous user cannot click through and see the hidden tweets, but that seems like it defeats the purpose of Twitter intentionally leaving them accessible so I kind of doubt it.

jedicurt
12-10-2019, 10:01 AM
from what I understand, Holt has also been deleting instagram comments on his posts which cannot be viewed by 3rd parties once deleted.

from what you understand. but can you confirm that?

shawnw
12-10-2019, 10:09 AM
There are several things Twitter and Instagram don't let you do if you're not logged in, which I think is fine. Sign up, make it a burner account, not one associated with your name, it's free. Use burner email addresses, etc, whatever. But there are no cost ways to do what you're wanting. There's no conspiracy by a person cultivating their social media presence in ways designed by the platform creator. Incidentally this feature was only recently created (https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/19/20874847/twitter-feature-launch-us-japan-rollout-hide-replies).

GoGators
12-10-2019, 10:17 AM
I dug the last flyer out of my trash can. It states

“Authorized and paid for by Citizens for MAPS 4”

Anyone know how they are funded? I have to assume its privately funded. Would be nice to know who bankrolls the flyers behind the scenes. Mainly to know if anyone who would benefit from approval ($$$) is part of that group.

I was #66 in far NW OKC at 7:45. I know a lot out this way are against. I voted to give myself a 1% merit increase on all my spending the next 8 years. Not every day you can vote to give yourself a pay raise. If it does fail (please) then maybe they can come back with something like Aquarium as shorter stand alone tax, I would vote for that.

Why are you now saying that you have to assume it’s privately funded and a couple of posts back you were saying that tax money shouldn’t be spent for flyers and they should give equal money to the other side?

Which one is it? Are you just saying anything you think might make someone mad about maps? Or do you honestly believe the maps campaign is tax payer funded?

Or are you saying you think private money should be forced to donate to both sides so it’s “fair”.

I’m very confused on your comments

soonerguru
12-10-2019, 10:25 AM
Well if she's not in OKC wonder why she is even concerned about it?

I've observed some of the loudest opponents on social media don't even live in OKC. Just saw a post this morning populated by Edmond and Village residents bitching about it.

soonerguru
12-10-2019, 10:28 AM
If it does fail (please) then maybe they can come back with something like Aquarium as shorter stand alone tax, I would vote for that.

That won't happen. So are you in the Piedmont / Deer Creek area? I know a lot of people from that part of town who are voting for MAPS 4.

But this mythical notion that you'll get what you want by voting this down is ridiculous and won't happen.

soonerguru
12-10-2019, 10:31 AM
COALITION MEMBERS
As of 12-9-19

ADG
American Quarter Horse Association
Arabian Horse Association
Arnall Family Foundation
Associated Builders and Contractors of Oklahoma
Automobile Alley Association
Black Chamber of Commerce of Metro Oklahoma City
Boys & Girls Clubs of Oklahoma County
Bricktown Association
The CARE Center- Child Abuse Response and Evaluation Center
Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City
CEC Corporation
CLS & Associates, LLC
CSS Partners
Center for Employment Opportunity (CEO)
Central Oklahoma Commercial Association of REALTORS
Central Oklahoma Home Builders Association
Central Oklahoma Labor Federation AFL-CIO
Central Oklahoma Youth Lacrosse
City Care Center
Classen Inn Motel
Communities Foundation of Oklahoma
deadCenter film
Downtown OKC
Endurance Girls Lacrosse
Energy FC
Express Employment Professionals
Fraternal Order of Police - OKC
Fowler Automotive
Freedom Center
FSB Architects and Engineers
Greater Oklahoma City Chamber
GSB Inc. Architects & Planners
Halff Associates
HNTB Corporation
Houston Financial
Humphreys Capital
Inasmuch Foundation
Iron Workers Local 48 - OKC
Jenifer Reynolds/Sandbur Productions LLC
Jim Cowan & Associates
Keep Oklahoma Beautiful
Laborers International Union of North America - Local 107
Latino Community Development Agency
Mason Realty Investors
McAfee & Taft
Midtown Association
NAACP
National Reining Horse Association
Neighborhood Alliance of Central Oklahoma, Inc.
NewView Oklahoma
North OKC Soccer Club
Northwest OKC Chamber
OKC Beautiful
OKC Black Eats, LLC
OKC Lacrosse Club
OKC Metropolitan Assoc. of Realtors
OKC Police Athletic League
Oklahoma Alliance for Public Transportation
Oklahoma Bicycle Society
Oklahoma Building and Construction Trades Council
Oklahoma City Firefighters, Local 157
Oklahoma Municipal Contractors Association
Oklahoma Soccer Association
Oklahoma State Fair / OKC Fairgrounds
Oklahoma Transit Association
Oklahoma Youth Expo
Painted Door Boutique
Palomar: Oklahoma City's Family Justice Center
ParkingWhisperer
Pivot, Inc.
Plaza District Shopping Center
Plumbers & Pipefitters - Local 344
Positive Tomorrows
Rand Elliot Architects
Rep. Cyndi Munson
Score OKC
SendaRide
Smith & Pickel Construction, Inc.
Social Order Dining Collective
South Oklahoma City Chamber
Special Olympics Oklahoma
The Grand National & World Championship Morgan Horse Show
The Homeless Alliance
Tree Bank Foundation
Uptown 23rd District Association
VOICE Action Fund
Yale Theater
YMCA of Greater Oklahoma City
YWCA Oklahoma City
ZFI Engineering Co.

What a sinister corporate cartel.

jerrywall
12-10-2019, 10:38 AM
I've observed some of the loudest opponents on social media don't even live in OKC. Just saw a post this morning populated by Edmond and Village residents bitching about it.

I mean, I can sort of see that. There are a lot of people who are affected by the vote who can't actually vote.

jonny d
12-10-2019, 11:29 AM
What a sinister corporate cartel.

Yep. Agreed. Just the dregs of society.

OKC Guy
12-10-2019, 11:37 AM
That won't happen. So are you in the Piedmont / Deer Creek area? I know a lot of people from that part of town who are voting for MAPS 4.

But this mythical notion that you'll get what you want by voting this down is ridiculous and won't happen.

Are you saying my vote doesn’t count, even before voting has concluded and is tallied up?

OKC Guy
12-10-2019, 11:40 AM
Why are you now saying that you have to assume it’s privately funded and a couple of posts back you were saying that tax money shouldn’t be spent for flyers and they should give equal money to the other side?

Which one is it? Are you just saying anything you think might make someone mad about maps? Or do you honestly believe the maps campaign is tax payer funded?

Or are you saying you think private money should be forced to donate to both sides so it’s “fair”.

I’m very confused on your comments

1. Did not know who funded it and incorrectly made an assumption. Some pointed out city could not use tax money, so I dug up flyer from trash and found out who funded.

2. Wanted to know of the funders, how many benefited financially from its passage. Pete listed them and sure enough there is financial gain involved.

GoGators
12-10-2019, 12:07 PM
1. Did not know who funded it and incorrectly made an assumption. Some pointed out city could not use tax money, so I dug up flyer from trash and found out who funded.

2. Wanted to know of the funders, how many benefited financially from its passage. Pete listed them and sure enough there is financial gain involved.

So why make an inflammatory statement you don’t know anything about? Your entire post was about how bad and unfair it was that the city was using tax dollars to fund the campaign.

Why do you feel the need to make things up to argue your side? If you don’t want maps to pass, make a factual argument and if it’s good enough it will resonate. This is the problem with politics on all levels. People play fast and loose with basic facts in order to try make a point.

chuck5815
12-10-2019, 12:33 PM
So why make an inflammatory statement you don’t know anything about? Your entire post was about how bad and unfair it was that the city was using tax dollars to fund the campaign. Why do you feel the need to make things up to argue your side? If you don’t want maps to pass, make a factual argument and if it’s good enough it will resonate. This is the problem with politics on all levels. People play fast and loose with basic facts in order to try make a point.you would agree, though, that the city is playing fast and loose with a number of facts to get this package passed?

OKC Guy
12-10-2019, 12:39 PM
So why make an inflammatory statement you don’t know anything about? Your entire post was about how bad and unfair it was that the city was using tax dollars to fund the campaign.

Why do you feel the need to make things up to argue your side? If you don’t want maps to pass, make a factual argument and if it’s good enough it will resonate. This is the problem with politics on all levels. People play fast and loose with basic facts in order to try make a point.

Dude, relax lol.

Originally asked it as a question saying “if” they use tax money to sell it they need to give equal money to opponents.

Is this posting graded? Its discussion right? Discussers said it was not taxes and I corrected. Do you want my first born too what more can I say it was a question based on assumption.

But dollars drive the flyers. What is your take on that?

To me it matters who is paying for the votes. As a citizen I want what is best for city. Dollar donors want what is best for their pocket book. I don’t blame them but their interest is not the same as mine they are in it for profit.

So which of my kids do I need to sacrifice lol

Rover
12-10-2019, 12:46 PM
Dude, relax lol.

Originally asked it as a question saying “if” they use tax money to sell it they need to give equal money to opponents.

I thought it was the role of city leadership to propose and advocate for things they believe will benefit the city. If you don't like the vision or the path of what they are proposing, vote them out. Go vote no if you must, but don't ignore reality. We voted them in to champion things to make our city better. Now, you have a chance to respond, so go do it.

jedicurt
12-10-2019, 12:48 PM
I thought it was the role of city leadership to propose and advocate for things they believe will benefit the city. If you don't like the vision or the path of what they are proposing, vote them out. Go vote no if you must, but don't ignore reality. We voted them in to champion things to make our city better. Now, you have a chance to respond, so go do it.

wait... so you are telling me that a city is going to try and sway support for what it thinks is the right course of action? how rude of them!!!

OKC Guy
12-10-2019, 01:00 PM
Saw this with picture of article blurb at tweet link

Paul Monies
@pmonies
·
Dec 9
This is the first MAPS campaign where the funding doesn’t have to be disclosed. Law was changed in 2014 to make local ballot campaigns exempt from campaign finance reporting. #MAPS4 #OKC #FOI #transparency

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmonies/status/1204039215375360002

David
12-10-2019, 01:32 PM
Dude, relax lol.

Originally asked it as a question saying “if” they use tax money to sell it they need to give equal money to opponents.

Is this posting graded? Its discussion right? Discussers said it was not taxes and I corrected. Do you want my first born too what more can I say it was a question based on assumption.

You know we can go back and read your previous posts, right? Hell, I'll quote them for convenience.


Ditto. If it was such a good line item then it would sell itself. They are spending a ton of our tax money on this sales pitch trying to drum up votes. I think they should be required to give the opposition an equal amount of our tax money to campaign against it.


Why are they allowed to spend tax dollars to lobby for a new tax? And all these flyers cost some decent money. Should be required to give an equal amount to opposition to keep it fair. Who authorizes these expenditures and with other city agencies lacking budgets to boot.

You did not start out by asking whether or not the city was spending tax dollars on the campaign as a question.

GoGators
12-10-2019, 01:33 PM
Saw this with picture of article blurb at tweet link

Paul Monies
@pmonies
·
Dec 9
This is the first MAPS campaign where the funding doesn’t have to be disclosed. Law was changed in 2014 to make local ballot campaigns exempt from campaign finance reporting. #MAPS4 #OKC #FOI #transparency

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmonies/status/1204039215375360002

The state legislature passed this law in 2014. This wasn’t some law OKC passed to specifically hide MAPs contributions. I agree this was a dumb law change but our state legislature is great at passing dumb laws.

OKC Guy
12-10-2019, 01:43 PM
You know we can go back and read your previous posts, right? Hell, I'll quote them for convenience.

You did not start out by asking whether or not the city was spending tax dollars on the campaign as a question.

Dude, which of my kids do you want? Both?

Time to move on from this obsession. I corrected my statement so unless you keep hashing this out its resolved. Life is too short to stress over it. I was wrong. Now, which kid do I need to give up?

GoGators
12-10-2019, 01:44 PM
you would agree, though, that the city is playing fast and loose with a number of facts to get this package passed?

Chuck, to be completely honest I haven’t heard of much coming from city hall at all. I don’t watch cable or listen to commercial OTA radio so I haven’t come across a single ad besides a bunch of love your okc yard signs. So I really do not know what has been said besides reading the breakdown description of projects on the website and this thread.

I assume you may be talking about the “without rasing taxes” line which I agree is misleading. I guess it’s technically true and disingenuous at the same time. I can see your point on that. Although it’s not just completely making stuff up like claiming tax payer money is used on campaign signs. I expect these grey areas to be spun in the direction of whoever is using the information which is fair game imo.

There may be some other questionable statements or even some flat out lies but I just admittedly haven’t been paying enough attention to know what has been coming from the city.

David
12-10-2019, 01:46 PM
Dude, which of my kids do you want? Both?

Time to move on from this obsession. I corrected my statement so unless you keep hashing this out its resolved. Life is too short to stress over it. I was wrong. Now, which kid do I need to give up?

Now you are just sore you got publicly caught in a lie.

shawnw
12-10-2019, 02:41 PM
Saw this with picture of article blurb at tweet link

Paul Monies
@pmonies
·
Dec 9
This is the first MAPS campaign where the funding doesn’t have to be disclosed. Law was changed in 2014 to make local ballot campaigns exempt from campaign finance reporting. #MAPS4 #OKC #FOI #transparency

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmonies/status/1204039215375360002

To be clear, the law was changed by the state, not by the city.

dankrutka
12-10-2019, 02:46 PM
The discussion (page 18) on whether public officials should "hide" tweets from potential constituents is interesting. There have been first amendment appeals for elected officials blocking constituents. Of course, "hiding" tweets that can be viewed with a simple click probably doesn't qualify. So, this more likely falls into the spirit, not law, of free speech. On the one hand, politicians should probably avoid censoring debate by "hiding" comments on Twitter or even deleting comments on Instagram. On the other hand, one way nefarious actors (see Russians working at the Internet Research Agency) and those who mimic their strategies (see 2017 Alabama Senate election) try to harm democracy is simply to amplify partisan/ideological/identity fractures in society... or simply exhaust people by making dumb arguments. These are real dilemmas and it's interesting to see them pop up in local elections.

Pete
12-10-2019, 03:02 PM
^

It's a big deal for the first time in OKC because Mayor Holt is all over social media.

I personally feel that if you put yourself out there in such an obvious way on these platforms, you shouldn't censor or squelch people who respond. I almost never do that on OKCTalk social media, and we have a pretty huge following (about 80,000 total now, and climbing rapidly).

Urban Pioneer
12-10-2019, 03:30 PM
^
I personally feel that if you put yourself out there in such an obvious way on these platforms, you shouldn't censor or squelch people who respond.

And he has.... Mayor Holt is the first mayor or city councillor to embrace social media to this degree.

I don't know and did not observe what was "hidden" but I often delete personal insults, innuendo being masqueraded as facts, and obscenities on the streetcar Facebook page.

The law regarding disclosure with public commentary only applies to public meetings publicly posted on the City of OKC calendar.

Urban Pioneer
12-10-2019, 03:32 PM
It is amazing at how many trolls he responds to.

GoGators
12-10-2019, 03:35 PM
I’ve never understood why public figures or corporations concern themselves with what is said in the comments sections. No sane person in their right mind is heading to the comments section of a post to form an opinion on anything. Hiding some guys comments saying MAPS is funding Jade Helm will do nothing to help your cause but it will fuel the opposition’s fires.

Pete
12-10-2019, 03:40 PM
I’ve never understood why public figures or corporations concern themselves with what is said in the comments sections. No sane person in their right mind is heading to the comments section of a post to form an opinion on anything. Hiding some guys comments saying MAPS is funding Jade Helm will do nothing to help your cause but it will fuel the opposition’s fires.

It's why I don't do anything about this sort of thing on OKCTalk social posts. It's not that I don't think people read the comments, it's that I think most can figure out what is silly and what isn't. Same as this site. If someone is being ridiculous, then people here will call them on it. I would rather err toward being hands-off vs. playing God over what is and isn't acceptable and it has worked pretty darn well.

The minute you start wading into this you are censoring and that is a very tricky business.

chuck5815
12-10-2019, 04:52 PM
It is amazing at how many trolls he responds to.

Yep. Cupcakes come in many different flavors. Some happen to be basketball savants . . . while others are Big League City mayors.

SoonersFan12
12-10-2019, 06:23 PM
When are we supposed to find out the results on the voting?

Pete
12-10-2019, 06:28 PM
When are we supposed to find out the results on the voting?

When the polls close at 7PM the OK Election board will start posting results on-line.

Usually takes a couple of hours to know how things are going.

https://results.okelections.us/OKER/?elecDate=20191210

dankrutka
12-10-2019, 06:33 PM
It's why I don't do anything about this sort of thing on OKCTalk social posts. It's not that I don't think people read the comments, it's that I think most can figure out what is silly and what isn't. Same as this site. If someone is being ridiculous, then people here will call them on it. I would rather err toward being hands-off vs. playing God over what is and isn't acceptable and it has worked pretty darn well.

The minute you start wading into this you are censoring and that is a very tricky business.

It is very, very tricky. For example, one problem is that you can't equate social media speech to other forms of speech because algorithms amplify messages. I won't go into the ways that dishonest and nefarious actors game social media algorithms and comment to distort and destroy democracy because that's a really long post. In short, the social media companies have taken a hands-off approach and it's been an absolute disaster. I will say that I think the "hide" feature on Twitter is probably a good addition. That's really not censorship, it's just denying amplification of a message. Free speech is not free reach.

To my knowledge, OKCTalk neither has had nefarious actors nor amplified messages like social media so Pete's approach is probably wise. I just don't think Twitter is the same as OKCTalk... nor is the OKCTalk Twitter account the same as that of a political figure.

Anyway, there's a lot of debate currently about amending Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which basically allows sites/platforms broad immunity, if you're interested in learning more. Tricky stuff without easy answers.

SoonersFan12
12-10-2019, 06:36 PM
Pete-Thank you for the link, I appreciate it

SoonersFan12
12-10-2019, 06:45 PM
Any guesses if it will pass or fail? I think it will pass

Pete
12-10-2019, 06:52 PM
To my knowledge, OKCTalk neither has had nefarious actors nor amplified messages like social media so Pete's approach is probably wise. I just don't think Twitter is the same as OKCTalk... nor is the OKCTalk Twitter account the same as that of a political figure.

No doubt. But when a political figure aggressively uses social media -- and I'm talking about Holt or a city council member, not a world leader -- then they are choosing to put themselves out there and there are consequences to that, not the least of which are lots of people responding in a way that they might not like. And they are using their elected position to get people to read what they have to say. They all use their title; they aren't posting as anonymous people.

You can't have it both ways. There are plenty of one-way communication methods. If you actively chose to use social media to promote causes and to amplify your opinions, then it is going to be used against you. And frankly, I think the large majority of hiding, and deleting and blocking is done to squelch opposing views, and that feels very wrong to me.

Really, why should you care if someone makes misstatements or even vulgarity? That is just like, their opinion man and they are entitled to it. The minute you stand in judgment of a statement being 'incorrect' or 'out of line' you are injecting your own judgment and censorship and who are you to make that final determination?

If you are a public official, you already have a ton of ways of getting your message out. If you wade into social media, IMO you are voluntarily inviting two-way communication and therefore, you should let that flow. Especially because when opposing views are curtailed, readers of the posts generally have no idea that is happening. The comments then can become a strong misrepresentation of how others feel about an issue.

My approach has always been to post on social media but not respond to any comments. I don't even read them. And BTW, the Gazette gets into some pretty prickly social and political issues and we use this same policy/approach.

Pete
12-10-2019, 07:05 PM
BTW, I feel the same way about journalists on social media or that hold podcasts and chats.

They use their position to get attention but then often heavily censor responses and questions. If you don't like it, you already have a big, one-way communication platform. When you *choose* to invite others into the conversation, I think it's highly unethical to censor them.

Again, this seems very wrong to me and I can provide many examples of local media members using what is supposed to be bilateral communication in a very disingenuous way. And many never know because they have no idea or what is being edited or deleted.

Zuplar
12-10-2019, 07:06 PM
I respect anyone that uses a Big Lebowski quote to drive home a point.

dankrutka
12-10-2019, 07:13 PM
I think we're talking/thinking about different sides of the same coin. I'm more talking about political warfare with dishonest actors on social media that are having damaging influences on society and you're talking about local officials and journalists censoring people who just disagree with them. I agree with what your point.

Pete
12-10-2019, 07:16 PM
I think we're talking/thinking about different sides of the same coin. I'm more talking about political warfare with dishonest actors on social media that are having damaging influences on society and you're talking about local officials and journalists censoring people who just disagree with them. I agree with what your point.

I understand but this subject came up in this thread because of Mayor Holt and other locals and that's the sort of thing I'm addressing, not international politics.

Plutonic Panda
12-10-2019, 07:42 PM
Looks like MAPS 4 will pass if early results are anything. There still many precincts that still haven’t reported

LocoAko
12-10-2019, 07:43 PM
13% of precincts are in and it is up by a 2-to-1 margin. I don't think it's going to be even close to failing....