The mayor and city do this for a reason; they want low turnout as that highly favors passage.

Why go to the trouble and expense of putting on a vote if you arent going to do everything you can to ensure it's success? By definition, the city is going to support the vote.

A trillion dollar tax increase? WHOA NELLIE we ain’t New York City! please throttle back on the zeroes :)

I got a little zero happy. Make that $1,000,000,000. That would be billion.

MAPS 4 Election and Voting Information


Early voting: Thursday & Friday, December 5th & 6th: 8 a.m. - 6 p.m.
4201 N Lincoln Boulevard, Oklahoma City, OK 73105

https://www.oklahomacounty.org/ImageRepository/Document?documentID=117


MAPS 4 Election and Voting: Regular voting is 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., Tuesday, December 10 at your usual polling location:
https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-4/election-and-voting-information
[See Sample Ballot inside above link]

So while I've read "some" opposition to Maps 4 (primarily on here, but a few other places as well), I've not seen an organized opposition effort this time. Has there been one that I'm missing? The lack of any organized opposition could also explain why the polls are leaning a positive as they evidently are.

I early voted today and there were quite a few people streaming in. I'm interested to see what the final voter turnout is.

So while I've read "some" opposition to Maps 4 (primarily on here, but a few other places as well), I've not seen an organized opposition effort this time. Has there been one that I'm missing? The lack of any organized opposition could also explain why the polls are leaning a positive as they evidently are.

There's never organized , well financed opposition to tax votes.

The people who stand to profit , are willing to spend money on TV, radio, internet ads. And mailers.

Lotsa money behind the yes vote.

There's never organized , well financed opposition to tax votes.

The people who stand to profit , are willing to spend money on TV, radio, internet ads. And mailers.

Lotsa money behind the yes vote.

Oh, that's not true. I've seen plenty of vote no campaigns on tax initiatives, and there was a pretty organized resistance to MAPS3 (the not my maps group IIRC) that pushed pretty hard on the concept that a vote for MAPS3 was a vote against funding the police and fire.

There's never organized , well financed opposition to tax votes.

The people who stand to profit , are willing to spend money on TV, radio, internet ads. And mailers.

Lotsa money behind the yes vote.

never??? what about all of the actions by Americans for Tax Reform, and just Grover Norquist before that???

never??? what about all of the actions by Americans for Tax Reform, and just Grover Norquist before that???

Or more recently? Oklahoma Deserves Better which was the (extremely successful) opposition to SQ 779.

Or more recently? Oklahoma Deserves Better which was the (extremely successful) opposition to SQ 779.

completely forgotten about that one. but yes, and more local

Oh, that's not true. I've seen plenty of vote no campaigns on tax initiatives, and there was a pretty organized resistance to MAPS3 (the not my maps group IIRC) that pushed pretty hard on the concept that a vote for MAPS3 was a vote against funding the police and fire.

Do remember the push against MAPS 3. The City finally made good on its promise to include IIRC safety on the GO Bonds initiative; probably why you're not see any organize opposition (as seen by Police & Fire on MAPS 3) to MAPS 4.

Proposed OKC MAPS 4 will hit consumers differently: https://oklahoman.com/article/5644856/proposed-okc-maps-4-will-hit-consumers-differently

Or more recently? Oklahoma Deserves Better which was the (extremely successful) opposition to SQ 779.

Boren's penny tax failed because it was a terrible idea , whatever small organized opposition it drew, had no bearing on the outcome. That was just pure folly.

And Grover Norquist opposes every tax , every where. I would not call him " organized opposition " . He's not gonna show up here in OKC and start distributing handbills and putting up yard signs.

But go ahead and nit pik. I promise , there's never been opposition as well financed as the one pushing this terrible idea of MAPS 4.

There's never organized , well financed opposition to tax votes.

The people who stand to profit , are willing to spend money on TV, radio, internet ads. And mailers.

Lotsa money behind the yes vote.

That's good spin there.

Boren's penny tax failed because it was a terrible idea , whatever small organized opposition it drew, had no bearing on the outcome. That was just pure folly.

And Grover Norquist opposes every tax , every where. I would not call him " organized opposition " . He's not gonna show up here in OKC and start distributing handbills and putting up yard signs.

But go ahead and nit pik. I promise , there's never been opposition as well financed as the one pushing this terrible idea of MAPS 4.

I've been around the Grover Norquist associates here in Oklahoma. Trust me, there is a lot of coordinated opposition to just about any tax. He has a very simplistic message he pedals to the far right leaning.

That's good spin there.Lol, how exactly is that spin? They have spent a fairly significant amount of money on ads in the DOK, News 9, a full page in last night’s Thunder game program, signs throughout the city, etc.

There's never organized , well financed opposition to tax votes.

The people who stand to profit , are willing to spend money on TV, radio, internet ads. And mailers.

Lotsa money behind the yes vote.

You were clearly not around (or not paying attention) for the MAPS 3 vote. Both the Fire and Police unions opposed it, and they successfully made it a pretty close vote.

why isn't jeff bezdek back in jail like he was when he stole our "Not this MAPS" signs? The trolly is a complete joke.

So while I've read "some" opposition to Maps 4 (primarily on here, but a few other places as well), I've not seen an organized opposition effort this time. Has there been one that I'm missing? The lack of any organized opposition could also explain why the polls are leaning a positive as they evidently are.

Typically, police and fire mobilize against it, but they received some significant new money and are either happy now or feel mobilization is going to be a wasted effort.

why isn't jeff bezdek back in jail like he was when he stole our "Not this MAPS" signs? The trolly is a complete joke.

It's functioning as intended and development is springing up all along its route.

It's functioning as intended and development is springing up all along its route.That’s a fair point, and it also looks great on the cut scenes during Thunder games. Makes it seem like we care about public transit.

I got a second flyer in the mail telling me to vote for it. I am not sure if the organization that sent it looks at voter statistics, but I vote in every and any election so that might be why.

You were clearly not around (or not paying attention) for the MAPS 3 vote. Both the Fire and Police unions opposed it, and they successfully made it a pretty close vote.


Ohhh no, I was here, I'd just forgotten about all that big money the police and fire unions put into that opposition. I mean really, those cops and firemen are sooo wealthy.

in fact, I've not only been here, I've been here since 72 and voted in every sales tax election since.

It's functioning as intended and development is springing up all along its route.

Development that would've gone somewhere else in the City.

And the people behind that development, are the ones putting the big money into putting this one over on the taxpayers.

Just a thought, if Boren's penny sales tax had passed ........ can you imagine how hard it would be to get MAPS4 passed ?

Would've made the sales tax rate right at 10%.

That's why it failed. Every municipality in the state fought it.

And it a great example of how out of touch David Boren became after he left the Senate.

Just a thought, if Boren's penny sales tax had passed ........ can you imagine how hard it would be to get MAPS4 passed ?

Would've made the sales tax rate right at 10%.

That's why it failed. Every municipality in the state fought it.

And it a great example of how out of touch David Boren became after he left the Senate.
Yes, the radical right thought him out of touch because he championed education vs. ignorance.

Development that would've gone somewhere else in the City.

And the people behind that development, are the ones putting the big money into putting this one over on the taxpayers.

That certainly was the right wing spin.

Ohhh no, I was here, I'd just forgotten about all that big money the police and fire unions put into that opposition. I mean really, those cops and firemen are sooo wealthy.

in fact, I've not only been here, I've been here since 72 and voted in every sales tax election since.
Of course you voted no against progress. Some people do that. Fortunately there are those that understand what investment and leadership means.

Lol, how exactly is that spin? They have spent a fairly significant amount of money on ads in the DOK, News 9, a full page in last night’s Thunder game program, signs throughout the city, etc.
It’s the predictable right wing lock step message anytime there is a progressive proposal. That people who are willing to promote those ideas must only do that for selfish motives. Lol. It’s the populist message we hear over and over regardless the proposal and place. That’s why it’s spin. It’s always using ad hominem to try to discredit.

I support MAPS 4 but you're being disingenuous if you're denying that there are people that will benefit from it financially, and some of those folks are involved in the "yes" campaign and promotion. Not that that's a bad thing. Public and private interests can go hand in hand at times.

Of course you voted no against progress. Some people do that. Fortunately there are those that understand what investment and leadership means.

Its ridiculous to even respond to this, but I've voted for every MAPS to this point. I regret voting for MAPS 3 but have no regrets for the first two.

And of course, I can proove this statement .........

I don't recall how I voted in the 70's and 80's on increases in Gen sale tax. I do recall that there was a great distrust of " downtown " and City Hall. There were two or three elections that failed.

And MAPS 3 just began to revive that distrust. The critics of the original MAPS said it would not be a temp tax, said it would only benefit downtown, and that certain people downtown would profit big off MAPS. They were wrong for the first two MAPS, but have become proven right over the long haul.

It’s the predictable right wing lock step message anytime there is a progressive proposal. That people who are willing to promote those ideas must only do that for selfish motives. Lol. It’s the populist message we hear over and over regardless the proposal and place. That’s why it’s spin. It’s always using ad hominem to try to discredit.

and you are the only person I've seen here, bringing partisan politics into a local election.

Ohhh no, I was here, I'd just forgotten about all that big money the police and fire unions put into that opposition. I mean really, those cops and firemen are sooo wealthy.

in fact, I've not only been here, I've been here since 72 and voted in every sales tax election since.

ok... so then define well organized opposition then, if this doesn't fit your mold please? because if we know where your line is for this term, then perhaps we can all come to an understanding

ok... so then define well organized opposition then, if this doesn't fit your mold please? because if we know where your line is for this term, then perhaps we can all come to an understanding

Ohhh , you win .................. my memory is not good these days.

And obviously, that well organized opposition did not make a large enough impression on me , for me to remember.

Whatever............... I admitted I was wrong, what else do you want ?

Hey, PM me your address ............and I'll send you a medal for proving I was incorrect.

Ohhh , you win .................. my memory is not good these days.

And obviously, that well organized opposition did not make a large enough impression on me , for me to remember.

Whatever............... I admitted I was wrong, what else do you want ?

Hey, PM me your address ............and I'll send you a medal for proving I was incorrect.

Do you interact with people like this in person, or just on the internet?

Ohhh , you win .................. my memory is not good these days.

And obviously, that well organized opposition did not make a large enough impression on me , for me to remember.

Whatever............... I admitted I was wrong, what else do you want ?

Hey, PM me your address ............and I'll send you a medal for proving I was incorrect.

lol, well wasn't expecting... was honestly asking what your definition of it was, since you seemed so adamant that it hadn't existed in the past. and so was curious what that criteria was... my apologizes if you took it personal

i still feel the purpose of a discussion forum is to discuss everyone's viewpoints and opinions about a topic, because we all bring different perceptions to the conversation. i never attempt to treat it as right or wrong, but rather everyone has their reasoning for their opinions. i was just trying to get at the heart of yours.

lol, well wasn't expecting... was honestly asking what your definition of it was, since you seemed so adamant that it hadn't existed in the past. and so was curious what that criteria was... my apologizes if you took it personal

i still feel the purpose of a discussion forum is to discuss everyone's viewpoints and opinions about a topic, because we all bring different perceptions to the conversation. i never attempt to treat it as right or wrong, but rather everyone has their reasoning for their opinions. i was just trying to get at the heart of yours.

Ohhh, so you don't want a medal for another message board conquest ?

How bout a trophy ?

Send him to the moon Pete. This/He is ridiculous.

IIRC it took 2 failed bond initiatives before the DT convention center (Myriad) finally passed; by then all our DT hotels had closed. The Municipal Auditorium was no longer used for the All College Tournament which moved to State Fair Arena--CHL hockey was anchor tenant.

A few years after the Myriad opened; we eventually lost the NFR to Las Vegas--we didn't possess the hotel capacity DT to support the event. The Myriad NFR seating capacity was 11,800, Vegas Thomas & Mack Arena seated 16,400, Vegas had gaming, inexpensive hotels, restaurants & entertainment--we couldn't compete.

We also lost CHL ice hockey the first year the Myriad opened--Bricktown had not been developed, Spaghetti Warehouse was the only core restaurant at the time.

To make a long story short; OKC will need to continue its bonds & MAPS initiatives if we want to keep pace with Fort Worth (Dickies Arena) wants our horse related events & Kansas City (Sprint Center) & Louisville (KFC Yum Center) wants an NBA or NHL franchise with eyes on all small market cities like Memphis, New Orleans, Raleigh & Oklahoma City. Thank God we have an NBA Thunder ownership group community committed--we need to keep the Chesapeake Arena up-to-date for ALL events; our DT hotel base is healthy; not like the late 60s & 70s where we struggled.

Continue the Renaissance...

I'm legit surprised it took us this long to just chalk it up as a troll and move along.

I got a third vote for maps flyer today. This is the second day in a row.

I got a third vote for maps flyer today. This is the second day in a row.

Ditto. If it was such a good line item then it would sell itself. They are spending a ton of our tax money on this sales pitch trying to drum up votes. I think they should be required to give the opposition an equal amount of our tax money to campaign against it.

I need to invest in hemorrhoid pillows before the vote.

I got a third vote for maps flyer today. This is the second day in a row.

So far we've gotten about 6 small flyers, one or two bigger ones. Just recycled them because we're voting yes, and didn't even look at the names, probably for all the folks who lived here before us and are too stupid/uncaring to change their registration.

Progress isnt neoliberal economic development, progress is jobeth sitting in the seat that was once occupied by one of the disgraced architects of the Penn Square Bank debacle.


Of course you voted no against progress. Some people do that. Fortunately there are those that understand what investment and leadership means.

I got a third vote for maps flyer today. This is the second day in a row.

Got more today. Our house has received 5 in the last 2-3 days, and I've already lost count of how many others I've tossed in the trash. Maybe up to 10 total now?

Got more today. Our house has received 5 in the last 2-3 days, and I've already lost count of how many others I've tossed in the trash. Maybe up to 10 total now?Yea, they definitely nervous. Wouldn’t be putting on this kind of full court press if they weren’t.

Yea, they definitely nervous. Wouldn’t be putting on this kind of full court press if they weren’t.

Are you serious or is this tongue-in-cheek? The idea they are nervous is pretty funny. This is a very typical campaign for a MAPs vote. The team behind it (Chamber/CMA) always wage a serious campaign for it. Polling shows it passing in a landslide. They aren't nervous at all; they're just running a responsible campaign in that they're pushing the vote and aren't resting on their laurels.

Election initiatives aren't something you want to take for granted which could cause voter turn out to become lackluster at the polls.

You know the 'No' vote will be there; unless they feel their 'No' vote won't matter. With 16 projects (most in MAPS history) valued at $978 million will have its support because of the magnitude and impact these projects will have on the future of OKC's neighborhoods & communities.

You can bet that the human needs groups will be getting their special interest vote out--Animal Shelter, Beautification, Diversion Hub, Family Justice, Freedom Center, Homelessness, Innovation District, Mental Health, Sidewalks, Streetlights, Bike lanes, Trails & related supporters to show up at the polls along with NBA Thunder fans, Energy FC soccer fans, State Fair Park & rodeo related interest groups who value the new coliseum & concert venue goers. Let's not forget the backing of the Chambers of Commerce. Probably why this MAPS is expected to pass with approval rates from 55% - 70% range.

Despite what the early results that various polls speculate; don't get complacent, please exercise responsibility--YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE.

Regular voting is 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., Tuesday, December 10 at your usual polling location.

Progress isnt neoliberal economic development, progress is jobeth sitting in the seat that was once occupied by one of the disgraced architects of the Penn Square Bank debacle.

OMG that was in 1982! My hair was brown and l was good-looking! Move on, for Gods sake! Not to mention most all of those folks are incontinent or dead.

So while I've read "some" opposition to Maps 4 (primarily on here, but a few other places as well), I've not seen an organized opposition effort this time. Has there been one that I'm missing? The lack of any organized opposition could also explain why the polls are leaning a positive as they evidently are.

Carol Hefner has been very vocally against it. She is the Trump supporter who has posted several racist themes on FB. And, of course, former councilman Shadid is for sure against it.

Carol Hefner has been very vocally against it. She is the Trump supporter who has posted several racist themes on FB. And, of course, former councilman Shadid is for sure against it.

Is Hefner a resident of OKC?

Is Hefner a resident of OKC?

Good question. I have no idea. But the Lost Ogle piece mentioning her today was pretty funny....

https://www.thelostogle.com/2019/12/09/7-reasons-to-vote-yes-on-maps-4ever/?fbclid=IwAR0RF9LxWxihV8qzuF4q3aDXtbVdzHIN2oHcL-1K_UuTCuLWXTN9iHQEFDU

There is a grassroots Facebook page that has over 500 members that is against MAPS 4.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/nomoremaps

Is Hefner a resident of OKC?

I believe Edmond.

I believe Edmond.

Well if she's not in OKC wonder why she is even concerned about it?

Well if she's not in OKC wonder why she is even concerned about it?I think she recognizes that OKC is the economic engine for the MSA and Edmond is just an accessory belt.

Well if she's not in OKC wonder why she is even concerned about it?

I don't live in OKC either (and therefore can't vote), but I spend much of my time and money in OKC. Much of my time is spent enjoying MAPS projects, and taxes on the money I spend support future projects. Totally OK with all of that.

Are you serious or is this tongue-in-cheek? The idea they are nervous is pretty funny. This is a very typical campaign for a MAPs vote. The team behind it (Chamber/CMA) always wage a serious campaign for it. Polling shows it passing in a landslide. They aren't nervous at all; they're just running a responsible campaign in that they're pushing the vote and aren't resting on their laurels.

Why are they allowed to spend tax dollars to lobby for a new tax? And all these flyers cost some decent money. Should be required to give an equal amount to opposition to keep it fair. Who authorizes these expenditures and with other city agencies lacking budgets to boot.

I’ve noticed the City is quick to delete dissenting voices from the various social media channels. Seems like very odd behavior if “yes” is so sure to win.

Is the city actually funding anything to do with the campaign, or is it the Chamber? I feel like that is an assumption that shouldn't go unchallenged.