PS, LA has allocated billions in less than five years for the homeless and problem has magnified ten fold over what it was prior. Homeless deaths have doubled in 10 years.

LA has 7 times the people and the budget of OKC, just for comparison. LA also has a much nicer climate, therefore probably more homeless are attracted there (I believe it's that way for some of the west coast cities such as Portland, Seattle, etc.).

It’s cute that you think homelessness boils down to one issue.

Newsflash: it doesn’t.

You were the one who posted the article about SF having a hard time dealing with the homeless problem on account of their housing costs. Maybe don't post articles as your proof if they don't make the point you are trying for?

What don't you understand about this - if you can put homeless people with problems (alcohol, drug, mental) in a house or apartment first, then they can address those problems much better than if they were out on the street or going from shelter to shelter?

Yeah, some homeless won't work that way, some will fail, no solution is perfect, but this one probably has the highest chance of success.First off, you seem to imply I’m against housing for homeless which if you read my post you would see that is incorrect.

Secondly, you are vastly over simplifying the issue. Some don’t want to be in hosing cooped up next to 30 other guys in one room. They aren’t going to go from a street addict to a private apartment in one day. Having other addicts nearby without supervision can magnify. There are rules and restrictions for good reason and if they are broken than they are kicked out. What else would you have done— sent to jail? There are curfews, bedtimes, dinner times, alcohol and controlled substance restrictions, and it is hard enough for many to break away from that even with housing(I’m struggling with alcoholism right now and I’m not even homeless[yet])but then you factor in being homeless. It is a recipe for someone to fall off the deep end and trigger other issues that can arise from that alone.

This is an issue much more complex than too many make it out to be. Many of the “very low market rate” apartments in LA are vacant and those are the last step until you make it into a higher income bracket and you don’t even discuss that with someone who is homeless. I see many in brand new apartment buildings who live in such units drive 20+ thousand dollar cars, buy $30 dollar bottles weekly or even daily, eat like a king, constantly buying weed, etc. Here and there are ways to save and spend more wisely though I don’t advocate living like a machine. We are only human. I am providing some insight and perspective on this issue.

There are many services available and ways out. I have many friends who are homeless many of which are fighting addiction and yet overcoming it or working their way out. Many don’t want government assistance. I don’t. So once again, stop making the issue one of simplicity. Some of these people have anxiety triggered by being confined in walls.

There is no generalization and once you realize that you see how many variations of scenarios that lead to homelessness exist maybe you could be a little more thankful you aren’t there. You gratitude isn’t shown by throwing money and expecting change so you can be shielded from the sight of people sleeping on the streets. If you truly care about the humanitarian aspect of it then open your freaking eyes man and see the liberal cities like LA and SF have accomplished by throwing billions.

LA has 7 times the people and the budget of OKC, just for comparison. LA also has a much nicer climate, therefore probably more homeless are attracted there (I believe it's that way for some of the west coast cities such as Portland, Seattle, etc.).New York has almost as many homeless as California and the climate there is to no affect. Oklahoma has more homeless than Louisiana yet has a smaller population.

First off, you seem to imply I’m against housing for homeless which if you read my post you would see that is incorrect.

Secondly, you are vastly over simplifying the issue. Some don’t want to be in hosing cooped up next to 30 other guys in one room. They aren’t going to go from a street addict to a private apartment in one day. Having other addicts nearby without supervision can magnify. There are rules and restrictions for good reason and if they are broken than they are kicked out. What else would you have done— sent to jail? There are curfews, bedtimes, dinner times, alcohol and controlled substance restrictions, and it is hard enough for many to break away from that even with housing(I’m struggling with alcoholism right now and I’m not even homeless[yet])but then you factor in being homeless. It is a recipe for someone to fall off the deep end and trigger other issues that can arise from that alone.

This is an issue much more complex than too many make it out to be. Many of the “very low market rate” apartments in LA are vacant and those are the last step until you make it into a higher income bracket and you don’t even discuss that with someone who is homeless. I see many in brand new apartment buildings who live in such units drive 20+ thousand dollar cars, buy $30 dollar bottles weekly or even daily, eat like a king, constantly buying weed, etc. Here and there are ways to save and spend more wisely though I don’t advocate living like a machine. We are only human. I am providing some insight and perspective on this issue.

There are many services available and ways out. I have many friends who are homeless many of which are fighting addiction and yet overcoming it or working their way out. Many don’t want government assistance. I don’t. So once again, stop making the issue one of simplicity. Some of these people have anxiety triggered by being confined in walls.

There is no generalization and once you realize that you see how many variations of scenarios that lead to homelessness exist maybe you could be a little more thankful you aren’t there. You gratitude isn’t shown by throwing money and expecting change so you can be shielded from the sight of people sleeping on the streets. If you truly care about the humanitarian aspect of it then open your freaking eyes man and see the liberal cities like LA and SF have accomplished by throwing billions.

Not even going to address most of the stuff here, you're conflating all kinds of stuff together, but yes, Housing First is that simple - put someone that's homeless in a house/apartment (alone, not with 30 other people, don't know where you got that idea) and the chances are fairly good that they will be able to clean up their act (if they're on drugs/alcohol or mentally ill) and get their life together again. Curbside Chronicle, Streetwise, and tons of other street papers have been doing this with success for years, it does work if the homeless person truly wants it to, and yes, there will always be people that don't want to go down that path. It truly does come down to something simple like putting someone in a house/apartment first, then things are more likely to get better for them and then the same can be done for the next person and the next and the next.....

Okay, Travellers. Just take someone who is homeless and struggling with mental health or drug addiction and throw them in a house all by themselves and see how that works out.

PS, There are steps taken first before someone goes from the streets to the apartment by themselves. Every situation is different but based on what I know that isn’t how it works. You just assume a roof over their head is the magic key to getting their life together and it’s uphill from there. You are mistaken there.

Okay, Travellers. Just take someone who is homeless and struggling with mental health or drug addiction and throw them in a house all by themselves and see how that works out.

PS, There are steps taken first before someone goes from the streets to the apartment by themselves. Every situation is different but based on what I know that isn’t how it works. You just assume a roof over their head is the magic key to getting their life together and it’s uphill from there. You are mistaken there.

OMG, really, you think I'm that naive? Of course they have help and support from organizations and people before moving in to help them get ready to move in, during the move-in, and after they've moved in, they aren't thrown into a house all by themselves, FFS, that's just about as reductionist as it gets. And BTW, housing first is not going to be the solution to ending homelessness, it's not a complete solution, and it has its flaws, but it works for the most part.

Homelessness and drug addiction are just symptoms of mental illness, in my unprofessional opinion. Or at the very least, people with severe mental problems and absolutely no self esteem.

Homeless shelters would really be housing the mentally ill.

That is a function of the State with assistance from the Fed Govt. This is a direction the City should not be going, its doing nothing but growing City govt.

Especially, in Oklahoma, where our constitution limits Citys revenue sources to assessing sales tax. The City would be taking over a function of the State and paying for it with sales tax collections ( and don't bother me with this endowment nonsense, that won't provide a guaranteed revenue stream and cost a bundle to manage ) .

Our Sales Tax rate is already top 10 nationally. The City can not shift to other revenue streams, like income tax or property tax. The sales tax can only be raised so high, so the City needs to be very careful about growth of spending.

And as mentioned above, sales tax is regressive. The only people who pay a tax, are those who feel it in their budgets. The affluent don't feel this MAPS tax, so its easy for them to be soft hearted and want to spend other peoples money on other people, The middle and lower income will pay this tax, because they feel it.

In no way, would I want to confiscate money from working middle class families to pay for this list of projects.

The original MAPS was a public sector investment in capital projects , that would be a catalyst for private sector investment.

What MAPS has evolved to, is nothing near the original MAPS. Did anyone reading this ever attend an 89'ers game at All Sports stadium ? That place was a dump. We needed a new ballpark, a new arena, an entertainment district, and get the rid of the eyesore that was the river. Those were needed projects.

Now they're asking for " wants " , rather than " needs " and venturing off into providing social services that will be there from now on.

Holt says he won't let MAPS " fail " on his watch. What's this " fail " thing about ? MAPS was a temporary tax that was suppose to end. Its not a failure if it ends, the way it was designed to do.

There's so many reasons to vote NO , I can't count them all .

Homelessness and drug addiction are just symptoms of mental illness, in my unprofessional opinion. Or at the very least, people with severe mental problems and absolutely no self esteem.

Homeless shelters would really be housing the mentally ill.

That is a function of the State with assistance from the Fed Govt. This is a direction the City should not be going, its doing nothing but growing City govt.

Especially, in Oklahoma, where our constitution limits Citys revenue sources to assessing sales tax. The City would be taking over a function of the State and paying for it with sales tax collections ( and don't bother me with this endowment nonsense, that won't provide a guaranteed revenue stream and cost a bundle to manage ) .

Our Sales Tax rate is already top 10 nationally. The City can not shift to other revenue streams, like income tax or property tax. The sales tax can only be raised so high, so the City needs to be very careful about growth of spending.

And as mentioned above, sales tax is regressive. The only people who pay a tax, are those who feel it in their budgets. The affluent don't feel this MAPS tax, so its easy for them to be soft hearted and want to spend other peoples money on other people, The middle and lower income will pay this tax, because they feel it.

In no way, would I want to confiscate money from working middle class families to pay for this list of projects.

The original MAPS was a public sector investment in capital projects , that would be a catalyst for private sector investment.

What MAPS has evolved to, is nothing near the original MAPS. Did anyone reading this ever attend an 89'ers game at All Sports stadium ? That place was a dump. We needed a new ballpark, a new arena, an entertainment district, and get the rid of the eyesore that was the river. Those were needed projects.

Now they're asking for " wants " , rather than " needs " and venturing off into providing social services that will be there from now on.

Holt says he won't let MAPS " fail " on his watch. What's this " fail " thing about ? MAPS was a temporary tax that was suppose to end. Its not a failure if it ends, the way it was designed to do.

There's so many reasons to vote NO , I can't count them all .

Exactly. And Holt doesn't give a **** about the long-term economics of this package. He'll be sitting in Inhofe's Seat when the bill comes due.

Exactly. And Holt doesn't give a **** about the long-term economics of this package. He'll be sitting in Inhofe's Seat when the bill comes due.

when what bill comes due???

This may have already been mentioned but there is a forum on Nov 17th for discussion. Details in link below.

https://kfor.com/2019/11/12/councilwoman-hamon-to-host-ward-6-maps-4-forum

“ The owner who closed the Smart Saver at N.E. 23rd Street and Martin Luther King Avenue is positioned to receive up to $5 million in MAPS 4 money.

While some may question the big payday, other Eastside voices are calling for it to happen for the sake of people in the neighborhoods who need development in the area.

“Beautification”

Smart Saver, Buy for Less, and Uptown Grocery owners Hank and Susan Binkowski chose to close the store in August rather than invest to improve it and the adjoining stores in the same storefront.”

- https://freepressokc.com/millions-from-maps-4-may-go-to-owner-who-closed-eastside-smart-saver/

“ The owner who closed the Smart Saver at N.E. 23rd Street and Martin Luther King Avenue is positioned to receive up to $5 million in MAPS 4 money.While some may question the big payday, other Eastside voices are calling for it to happen for the sake of people in the neighborhoods who need development in the area.“Beautification”Smart Saver, Buy for Less, and Uptown Grocery owners Hank and Susan Binkowski chose to close the store in August rather than invest to improve it and the adjoining stores in the same storefront.”- https://freepressokc.com/millions-from-maps-4-may-go-to-owner-who-closed-eastside-smart-saver/Yep, and I've heard some talk that the Homeland people are getting a similar deal. Just another set of reasons why I'll be voting a hard no on this version.

I’m not sure how to feel about it. Business decisions aside, it has bothered me that Bikowski has flat out lied to the community where I refuse to shop at Uptown or Buy for Less. Though I wonder if this development furthers the good old boy network in OKC yet is a development that could ultimately be good for this part of the community. It is valuable land and he should be compensated fairly.

There are a couple of pretty persistent posters here that are adamant about voting no to helping the less fortunate or for things that generally aid in beautification, transportation, public venues or other public improvement endeavors. Does everyone think that that is the majority feeling in OKC or just a couple of people here on the board? What are the odds that MAPS 4 passes?

I think MAPS 4 passes. It seems per reports that citywide optimism is pretty high and from what I’ve seen on social media and from friends around the city people are pretty happy with the mayor. I know that isn’t the best indication of reality though.

Supporters should presume it's going to fail and get out there en mass to vote/show support. Failing to show up because of victorious presumptions could end quite tragically.

Supporters should presume it's going to fail and get out there en mass to vote/show support. Failing to show up because of victorious presumptions could end quite tragically.

Yeah, definitely this -- although anecdotally, I agree that I think this will pass.

So the City has been actively deleting dissenting voices across all social media platforms. If the City is willing to run afoul of the 1st Amendment, I’d imagine the internal polling must be showing a crack or two.

There are a couple of pretty persistent posters here that are adamant about voting no to helping the less fortunate or for things that generally aid in beautification, transportation, public venues or other public improvement endeavors. Does everyone think that that is the majority feeling in OKC or just a couple of people here on the board? What are the odds that MAPS 4 passes?

I think that there are many people that don't want to unjustly enrich certain folks of means and will be voting NO. But, I do think it will pass and these certain folks will profit off this MAPs just like past maps. Must be nice to be in the loop.

Interesting piece by FOX 25 that encourages those in outlying areas of OKC City Limits (despite attachments to the given suburb or school district) to vote in upcoming Maps election.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/where-do-you-live-for-many-the-answer-is-complicated

I think the city is more concerned than usual about the river south area voting NO. I noticed they announced a senior wellness center will be at 134 and S. Western (Maps 3) and a new park will be built in far south okc under MAPS 4. A state representative from the area was even pushing MAPS 4 on facebook. I have only seen one Love OKC sign in south okc so far.

I think the city is more concerned than usual about the river south area voting NO. I noticed they announced a senior wellness center will be at 134 and S. Western (Maps 3) and a new park will be built in far south okc under MAPS 4. A state representative from the area was even pushing MAPS 4 on facebook. I have only seen one Love OKC sign in south okc so far.I think they are nervous about almost every part of the city. Most people are smart enough to not willingly eat a shi* sandwich.

I think the city is more concerned than usual about the river south area voting NO. I noticed they announced a senior wellness center will be at 134 and S. Western (Maps 3) and a new park will be built in far south okc under MAPS 4. A state representative from the area was even pushing MAPS 4 on facebook. I have only seen one Love OKC sign in south okc so far.

It looks like they should be...

“David Greenwell ‘not supporting’ MAPS 4 without ‘measurable outcomes’’

https://nondoc.com/2019/11/19/david-greenwell-wants-measurable-outcomes-maps-4/

I’ve had the opportunity to talk to David quite a bit and he has always been a huge supporter of Maps in the past... he is a very intelligent and reasonable man.

I think the city is more concerned than usual about the river south area voting NO. I noticed they announced a senior wellness center will be at 134 and S. Western (Maps 3) and a new park will be built in far south okc under MAPS 4. A state representative from the area was even pushing MAPS 4 on facebook. I have only seen one Love OKC sign in south okc so far.

I live far south. I don't want the City to throw us any bones to get our vote. I want a lower sales tax rate. I'm not gonna vote for a billion dollar tax increase just to get some money spent in this part of town. My life is just fine without the City making any improvements.

I don't want to see City government grow. I'm not gonna give them more money to throw out pork to everybody.

Either put this sales tax increase to a vote as a permanent tax or forget it. What they're doing now is akin to getting a $500 shopping spree at Target. And while a person might get some value from a shopping spree, its not the most efficient or effective way to spend money. They're gonna come away with a lot of stuff that's useless.

It looks like they should be...

“David Greenwell ‘not supporting’ MAPS 4 without ‘measurable outcomes’’

https://nondoc.com/2019/11/19/david-greenwell-wants-measurable-outcomes-maps-4/

I’ve had the opportunity to talk to David quite a bit and he has always been a huge supporter of Maps in the past... he is a very intelligent and reasonable man.

I'm curious, since I've chosen not to be an Oklahoman internet subscriber, did The Oklahoman cover Greenwell's stance ?

Just the headlines I read at NewsOK, tells me they're playing their usual role of cheerleader for anything downtown and not providing any critical coverage of City Hall. If they do write anything close to critical, they quickly gloss it over with quotes from City zealots, i.e. the mess in the Boathouse District that's costing the Gen Fund a million dollars per year.

I'm curious, since I've chosen not to be an Oklahoman internet subscriber, did The Oklahoman cover Greenwell's stance ?

Just the headlines I read at NewsOK, tells me they're playing their usual role of cheerleader for anything downtown and not providing any critical coverage of City Hall. If they do write anything close to critical, they quickly gloss it over with quotes from City zealots, i.e. the mess in the Boathouse District that's costing the Gen Fund a million dollars per year.

I didn’t see this reported anywhere but on this site but it deserves mentioning that they have come up with some pretty good work in the past ...

I didn’t see this reported anywhere but on this site but it deserves mentioning that they have come up with some pretty good work in the past ...

Yes, there was an article in The Oklahoman last week, maybe Thursday?

^I read it there as well. Was covered and discussed.

Maps 4 question, is new state fair arena going to have ice making equipment for Echl hockey?

Maps 4 question, is new state fair arena going to have ice making equipment for Echl hockey?

I seriously doubt it. It's a glorified horse barn. Have to keep the cowboys happy.

Maps 4 question, is new state fair arena going to have ice making equipment for Echl hockey?

i am assuming it will have ice making equipment as when the originally gave their proposal, it had an entire set up for ice shows... it wouldn't be that difficult to adjust that for ice hockey as well, assuming an outside group will want to make the effort again. i'm not so sure the Dallas Stars ownership group will be so keen to after the mess that occurred just a few years ago when they tried to see about bringing their echl team here

I seriously doubt it. It's a glorified horse barn. Have to keep the cowboys happy.
Is your doubt based on any facts we know? Is having ice capability and having horse shows incompatible? Will the kids also be kept happy with basketball tournaments, Disney on Ice, concerts and other events, or do they have to be Cowboy kids to be happy with a new venue?

In case you haven't noticed, the Oklahoman has been running non-stop promotions for MAPS thinly disguised as journalism for the last month.

Their relationship with the Chamber, the Boathouse Foundation, the Energy, the Thunder and others results in borderline corrupt reporting.


And I say all this without taking a stance on MAPS4 one way or another. It's just one of the many ways that publication puts its own self-interest ahead of the community.

In case you haven't noticed, the Oklahoman has been running non-stop promotions for MAPS thinly disguised as journalism for the last month.

Their relationship with the Chamber, the Boathouse Foundation, the Energy, the Thunder and others results in borderline corrupt reporting.


And I say all this without taking a stance on MAPS4 one way or another. It's just one of the many ways that publication puts its own self-interest ahead of the community.

There's a larger discussion merited here, as the Oklahoman has never really been about journalism. It's always been a cheerleader for Chamber oriented activity. That doesn't always make what they're reporting wrong or bad, but it is always suspect.

Are they getting paid money under the table by the city? What is their incentive to do this? I certainly have noticed the seemingly weekly articles put out that act as advertised ads for maps 4 and it is very weird.

The city and chamber feed them stories in exchange for favoritism and puff-pieces, the Thunder and Energy are major advertisers, they have a relationship with the Boathouse Foundation whereby the foundation promotes the Oklahoman at their events and in return gets non-stop PR and more puff pieces masquerading as reporting, etc., etc.

And in general, the Oklahoman is in bed with all the traditional powers-that-be, all of which are intertwined with the Chamber.

The Chamber and MAPS are also heavy advertisers. The conflicts are numerous and go way back.

I've noticed this as well and figured it was because they are scared MAPS might fail. It will probably be tighter than past MAPS votes, but most likely still pass.

Interesting article in December 1, Oklahoman on city beautification efforts that would result from MAPS 4.


$30 million for MAPS 4 would include beautification projects:

http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/get/DOK-2019-12-01/image.ashx?kind=block&href=DOK%2F2019%2F12%2F01&id=Pc0011200&ext=.jpg&ts=20191201103657
Water stains mark the bridges and retaining walls along the Clara Luper Corridor on NE 23 Street in Oklahoma City. MAPS 4 includes funding for proposed beautification projects, including along the east and west entrances to the Clara Luper Corridor. [CHRIS LANDSBERGER/THE OKLAHOMAN]

http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/get/DOK-2019-12-01/image.ashx?kind=block&href=DOK%2F2019%2F12%2F01&id=Pc0040400&ext=.jpg&ts=20191201103657
MAPS 4 includes up to $5 million for potential land acquisition and remediation of the northeast corner of NE 23 Street and Martin Luther King Avenue, home to the former Smart Saver grocery store, which closed in August. [CHRIS LANDSBERGER/THE OKLAHOMAN]

http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/get/DOK-2019-12-01/image.ashx?kind=block&href=DOK%2F2019%2F12%2F01&id=Pc0040500&ext=.jpg&ts=20191201103657
The MAPS 4 proposal for beautification includes significant funding to improve the aesthetics of the currently drab corridor to Will Rogers World Airport along Meridian Avenue. [CHRIS LANDSBERGER/THE OKLAHOMAN]

Source: Darla Spice, staff writer for the Oklahoman
Sunday, December 1, 2019

Link: http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/default.aspx

All future MAPS initiatives will have greater challenges than its passage. Being debt free poses the next phase of which projects will receive priority.

There's also the question of discontinuing MAPS in favor of the penny sales tax becoming part of the permanent general fund mechanism. That's what many of us on this forum's content haven been about the premise of our city's direction.

Prior to MAPS, OKC was virtually stagnant in growth for many decades (1960-1980); yet our population continued to grow. We're seeing a boom in business and corporate growth--downtown housing, redevelopment and so forth.

We saw 2014 redirection for MAPS to address community & neighborhood needs. Now we have a $978 million plan to address some those needs--we can't seen to satisfy everyone's imagination of what MAPS needs are.

I like the referendum every few years. I'd hope to think that if this iteration of MAPS fails, and I think it will, the city fathers will put their heads together, figure out why, then pass something which gains more public support. If we had a permanent tax in there, we'd see lots more of the people's money spent on corporate welfare projects. MAPS 4 is bad enough.

We need a break between so it is clear to voters that passing creates a new tax.

I really hate the "this won't raise your taxes" propaganda because it's disingenuous at best.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The latest <a href="https://twitter.com/NEWS9?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NEWS9</a> poll shows 72.6% of OKC voters support MAPS4, 19.9% oppose, 7.5% don’t know. Election is Dec 10th. <a href="https://twitter.com/cityofokc?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@cityofokc</a></p>&mdash; Karl Torp (@KarlTorpNews9) <a href="https://twitter.com/KarlTorpNews9/status/1201608124265877505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I guess html is not working and I can't edit that post for some reason. Here is the link: https://twitter.com/KarlTorpNews9/status/1201608124265877505

"The latest ⁦‪@NEWS9‬⁩ poll shows 72.6% of OKC voters support MAPS4, 19.9% oppose, 7.5% don’t know. Election is Dec 10th. ⁦‪@cityofokc‬⁩" - @KarlTorpNews9

We need a break between so it is clear to voters that passing creates a new tax.

I really hate the "this won't raise your taxes" propaganda because it's disingenuous at best.

If they phrased it as "it will keep your taxes at their current level" would that be accurate enough?

I get what you're saying, but it's also fair to say it's not an increase over what people are paying now. Yes, they could let one end and then campaign a start up a new one, and it would be clearer. But short of doing that, I'm not sure if there is a perfect way to phrase it that someone wouldn't find disingenuous. Marketing it as a new tax would imply that if it passes then taxes would be higher than they are now, verses remaining the same or lowering (if it doesn't pass).

Also, is it techinically a new tax, or an extension of an existing one? (I assume the latter - just curious though)

I guess html is not working and I can't edit that post for some reason. Here is the link: https://twitter.com/KarlTorpNews9/status/1201608124265877505

"The latest ⁦‪@NEWS9‬⁩ poll shows 72.6% of OKC voters support MAPS4, 19.9% oppose, 7.5% don’t know. Election is Dec 10th. ⁦‪@cityofokc‬⁩" - @KarlTorpNews9

That seems awfully high for the support side...

Also, is it techinically a new tax, or an extension of an existing one? (I assume the latter - just curious though)

It is a new tax and it says so on the ballot.

In 2009 the Gazette did a similar poll in conjunction with News9 via Sooner Poll. Is this the same arrangement or did News9 hire someone out of state and do it on their own? Those numbers seem huge.

It is a new tax and it says so on the ballot.

That is somewhat misleading. The tax sunsets, meaning that your taxes would go down if it is not renewed. Therefore, technically, it is a new tax, but if it is voted up, the tax rate would not go up, as it did with the Better Streets, Safer City (or whatever it was called). It would stay the same. So, if you vote YES, your sales tax will be at the same rate as it is currently. If you vote NO, the sales tax rate will go down.

I like the referendum every few years. I'd hope to think that if this iteration of MAPS fails, and I think it will, the city fathers will put their heads together, figure out why, then pass something which gains more public support. If we had a permanent tax in there, we'd see lots more of the people's money spent on corporate welfare projects. MAPS 4 is bad enough.

This is not going to fail but if it does, the next iteration of this will be far worse. There certainly won't be "human needs" items included, if you care about those things. The powers that be will conclude, rightly or wrongly, that the voters just want money for roads and infrastructure.

The first line from the MAPS3 ballot:

"The Ordinance levies a limited-term excise tax of 1% on the gross from all sales taxable under the sales tax laws of the State of Oklahoma."


Says absolutely nothing about it continuing another tax.

And it's written that way because it is factual and legal, lest the entire ballot result gets thrown out in a court of law.

Slightly more information about that polling: https://twitter.com/KarlTorpNews9/status/1201643782594322432


Done by Sooner Poll using the demographic profile of OKC registered voters. 401 voters questioned. Entire poll will be posted online
@NEWS9

401 seems a bit low, but I think that just means a larger margin of error which may not matter a lot when the spread is 50 points wide.

The news article with more details: News 9 Poll Shows Strong Support For MAPS 4 (https://www.news9.com/story/41396346/news-9-poll-shows-strong-support-for-maps-4)

It has the full polling results included.

Very interesting. It also indicated that over 75% of the people who completed the poll were over the age of 55. Which is likely to coincide with who comes out to vote on this. I feel a lot more confident in this passing after reading through that.

SoonerPoll is usually pretty close

This is what annoys me about when the vote is occurring. It is on a obscure Tuesday where much of the population has no idea of the election day and will probably not vote. I would be surprised if more than 10% vote. A vote for a $1,000,000,000,000 tax increase should be in November during the general election.

This is what annoys me about when the vote is occurring. It is on a obscure Tuesday where much of the population has no idea of the election day and will probably not vote. I would be surprised if more than 10% vote. A vote for a $1,000,000,000,000 tax increase should be in November during the general election.

The mayor and city do this for a reason; they want low turnout as that highly favors passage.

This is what annoys me about when the vote is occurring. It is on a obscure Tuesday where much of the population has no idea of the election day and will probably not vote. I would be surprised if more than 10% vote. A vote for a $1,000,000,000,000 tax increase should be in November during the general election.

A trillion dollar tax increase? WHOA NELLIE we ain’t New York City! please throttle back on the zeroes :)

The mayor and city do this for a reason; they want low turnout as that highly favors passage.

I don't think this is unique to Oklahoma City, by ANY stretch, though.

SoonerPoll is usually pretty close

I honestly thought they did horrible with our two big elections last fall. Their final gubernatorial poll showed Edmondson down to Stitt by only three points, and he ended up losing by double-digits. Meanwhile, their final poll in OK-05 showed Horn down to Russell by eleven points, and she ended up winning.

That being said, it's pretty much impossible to see a way that MAPS 4 doesn't pass when it polls 53 points above water a week before election day lmao.