Hahahahaha holt just killed maps4 and I don’t think he even realizes it yet. Voters will shoot it down out of spite, make them go back to the drawing board and add it.

Holding out hope for the Chrystal Lagoon!

I'm also sort of curious how the National Aquarium became the only bar... like, if somehow what's done isn't as nice as the National Aquarium, it's not world class? I guess any museum that's not the Smithsonian isn't worth it either?

Regardless, agree with you, and with others, in the fact that 150M would definitely get us a pretty nice aquarium. Would it be the best and biggest in the country? Course not, and I don't think that's a reasonable expectation in a land locked state.

How many miles of roads or sidewalks does 150 million buy?

How many miles of roads or sidewalks does 150 million buy?

A lot less than the $967 million dollar better streets safer city bond that was just passed less than 2 years ago? Or less than the $240 million dollars MAPS3 extension that goes for roads and sidewalks?

Yes to keep it out

A lot less than the $967 million dollar better streets safer city bond that was just passed less than 2 years ago? Or less than the $240 million dollars MAPS3 extension that goes for roads and sidewalks?
Talk to em

Did the director of the Zoo push for the story? It seems pretty simple to me that if they had done any type of public education effort this would have been a contender for inclusion.

This feels very orchestrated.

I've already explained how this came to pass.

MAPS 4 has always needed a sexy project. Not one proposed project has had any “punch” or excitement except this one - and it’s not going to be included. Fail.

MAPS 4 has always needed a sexy project. Not one proposed project has had any “punch” or excitement except this one - and it’s not going to be included. Fail.

Will still pass. Is it a fail?

My very first project when I moved to Oklahoma twenty years ago was to build the little clock tower at the new Cat Forest Park at the OKC Zoo. As a single person, I didn't go to the zoo for probably a good ten years. Now with two kids, I probably go out there every month and my wife probably weekly. I brought up the aquarium idea to her at lunch. Immediately I was bombarded with questions. Would we have to pay to get in as we all have an annual family pass, etc? Why would it be in Bricktown? Would she have to pay to park? Why isn't it at the zoo that already exists? I could tell the whole idea of lugging the kids to someplace else was an anathema.

For people who actually support the zoo, having a sensible awareness campaign with simple answers to these questions is just covering the basics to get their support.

I have to say that if you did install an aquarium at the zoo itself, you would continue to propel that entire complex further into a continent-wide destination for zoo lovers. This idea about Bricktown just smells like some sort of payoff to developers and property brokers. This is a really odd day for all of this suddenly become an issue.

You guys are silly. Please vote yes for thew sake of Bike lanes, public transit, sidewalks, trees, support for mental health, etc.. an aquarium is not nearly as important as these things that will actually improve quality of life for all people in meaningful ways.
But those can happen without MAPS and with MAPS and this aquarium. The powers that be need a shake up. This was shown today to be a very popular project and it wasn't even given a chance. Bike lanes and buses aren't getting that much funding anyways and this MAPS just throws a bone to those supporters instead of a meaningful change. This is sad and will turn me against MAPS 4(not like it really matters anyways).

that aquarium was build for 21.3 Million in 1981, based upon every inflation calculator out there... the most i saw was saying that would be about $80 Million in todays dollars. now i'm certain they have probably done some renovations since then... but i think 150M would get us a pretty dang good one

The world-class Shedd Aquarium in Chicago was built in 1930 for $3 million, which equates to about $46 million today. Of course, the Shedd Aquarium has had a lot of investment in it since - but this definitely goes to show that $125 million would *absolutely* build us a world-class aquarium.

Hope to get him to explain this:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aquariumholt1.jpg

To provide some additional context, here's the original tweet, Mayor Holt's response, and the original poster's reply to Mayor Holt.

https://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15547&d=1566516501
https://twitter.com/davidfholt/status/1164545584876982274

Like the OP, I don't think I've ever seen so many people express support for a potential MAPS project this quickly. This is an absolute slam dunk of a project, and it's inclusion in MAPS 4 would get people to the polls and virtually guarantee that it passed. Despite incorporating some important social projects and other stuff I would like to see happen, the current slate of expected projects is just incredibly lackluster for most people.

To provide some additional context, here's the original tweet, Mayor Holt's response, and the original poster's reply to Mayor Holt.

https://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15545&d=1566514436
https://twitter.com/davidfholt/status/1164545584876982274

Like the OP, I don't think I've ever seen so many people express support for a potential MAPS project this quickly. This is an absolute slam dunk of a project, and it's inclusion in MAPS 4 would get people to the polls and virtually guarantee that it passed. Despite incorporating some important social projects and other stuff I would like to see happen, the current slate of expected projects is just incredibly lackluster for most people.

Lololololololol


"Let this be a lesson for everyone. Certain message boards and forums, they can be entertaining for fun heresay and rumors. If you want facts, stick to
@stevelackmeyer"


/facepalm

Lololololololol


"Let this be a lesson for everyone. Certain message boards and forums, they can be entertaining for fun heresay and rumors. If you want facts, stick to
@stevelackmeyer"


/facepalmMayor Holt did NOT say that. Another person replying to him did.

That is really nice! They would get my vote!

Lololololololol


"Let this be a lesson for everyone. Certain message boards and forums, they can be entertaining for fun heresay and rumors. If you want facts, stick to
@stevelackmeyer"


/facepalm

These MAPS projects aren't what the people want. It's what special interest groups want. That's the way it works around here. Maybe things are starting to change,maybe not.

I’ll say it again, this MAPS is misguided. You don’t wave a $700 million to $1 billion dollar check in the air and ask what we should spend it for. It seems as if the city has already done their scientific polling ahead of time and already knew what they wanted to do. It’s disguised as a public process but it seems like the same old Oklahoma City we all know too well.

Lololololololol


"Let this be a lesson for everyone. Certain message boards and forums, they can be entertaining for fun heresay and rumors. If you want facts, stick to
@stevelackmeyer"


/facepalm

I really almost puked when I read that.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aquarium2.jpg

An Aquarium on the I-40 front: Gaining momentum; however it may be too late in the process to get it on MAPS 4: Contact your council representative if you want help drum up interest; what do we have to lose...


https://www.okc.gov/Home/ShowPublishedImage/10170/636903954860800000

https://www.bidsync.com/images/rfporg/ok_okc.png:

https://www.okc.gov/

https://www.okc.gov/government/city-councilhttp://

MAPS 4 would leave the current Oklahoma City sales tax rate of 4.125 percent unchanged. Including state sales tax, the overall sales tax rate in most of OKC is 8.625 percent (8.975 percent in Canadian County and 8.875 percent in Cleveland County because of county sales taxes).

I really almost puked when I read that.

It gave me another reason to start another twitter account to call Steve out on his bull****. He blocks every single account even though I have never been rude, but he is a snowflake that cant take a hard question let alone ask one. Steve Lackmeyer embodies the mediocrity of the Oklahoman.

Yes, yes he does.

And we can do this thing soooooo much better than the Jenks aquarium. That place is a joke and is expensive for the extreme low quality of the place.

Think Dallas, think New Orleans. Those are both older concepts now and we have the opportunity to take up a notch!

IÂ’ll say it again, this MAPS is misguided. You donÂ’t wave a $700 million to $1 billion dollar check in the air and ask what we should spend it for. It seems as if the city has already done their scientific polling ahead of time and already knew what they wanted to do. ItÂ’s disguised as a public process but it seems like the same old Oklahoma City we all know too well.

It depends on how you look at it. There are some very specific special interests that obviously are getting their piece of the pie and under the guise of "economic revenue generators".

Conversely, you have a new slate of city councilors who campaigned on a promise to work on homelessness, sidewalks, transit, trails, animal welfare, mental health, substance abuse, placemaking, and reinvestment in neighborhoods outside of downtown. They were ushered in by their voters with those specific agendas. The scientific polling demonstrates that the voting public hasn't changed their priorities since those council seats changed. They have a mandate. The great debate, if there is one internally, is over projects that do not specifically address those concerns. These people waltzed into office with a mandate from their constituents and even the data from last week shows that nothing has changed with what the likely voter wants.

Yes, yes he does.

And we can do this thing soooooo much better than the Jenks aquarium. That place is a joke and is expensive for the extreme low quality of the place.

Think Dallas, think New Orleans. Those are both older concepts now and we have the opportunity to take up a notch!

What exactly is "extreme low quality" about the Jenks aquarium? There are some great exhibits there, including a freaking shark tunnel. It's not a huge place, but what they have is well done. I get that the outside doesn't look very flashy, but not every project has to be a monument to architectural ego.

IMO, the concept shown in these renderings looks far too shoved back into a corner. I am sure OKC will get an aquarium soonish, and I hope the final product focuses less on providing flashy eye candy from the highway and more on providing high-quality exhibit space.

Yes, yes he does.

And we can do this thing soooooo much better than the Jenks aquarium. That place is a joke and is expensive for the extreme low quality of the place.

Think Dallas, think New Orleans. Those are both older concepts now and we have the opportunity to take up a notch!

What is "low quality" about it? And why "a joke" Specifics, please.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/acquarium082319a.jpg

What is "low quality" about it? And why "a joke" Specifics, please.

It is good to bring younger kids to, but the fact of the matter is it is small and frankly unimpressive. A world class aquarium is on par with the Shedd Aquarium, New England Aquarium, Monterrey Bay Aquarium, Georgia Aquarium, or Churaumi Aquarium. The number of exhibits as well as the size of exhibits leaves a lot of more experienced aquarium enthusiasts wanting for more. I have brought my nieces and nephews to the Jenks aquarium twice, they had a fantastic time both times, the adults that have been to some of the aquariums I have already mentioned were completely unimpressed. The Jenks aquarium is great for what it is, and I imagine it is an awesome field trip for local elementary and middle school students. You really need to go and time your experience with some of the live demonstration exhibits or you really do not get your moneys worth for the tickets. The highlight of the facility to me is the Oklahoma river life exhibit with the otters and other local wildlife, this was unique and easily the high point of both trips I have taken to the Jenks aquarium. With that being said I could easily see someone that has been to multiple top tier aquariums considering the Jenks aquarium to be a bit of a joke. By comparison it is woefully unimpressive to other facilities.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/acquarium082319a.jpg

Who dat?

Who dat?

Just showing that in one day that Instagram post had well more than 4,000 likes.

Numbers on Facebook were huge as well.

It is good to bring younger kids to, but the fact of the matter is it is small and frankly unimpressive. A world class aquarium is on par with the Shedd Aquarium, New England Aquarium, Monterrey Bay Aquarium, Georgia Aquarium, or Churaumi Aquarium. The number of exhibits as well as the size of exhibits leaves a lot of more experienced aquarium enthusiasts wanting for more. I have brought my nieces and nephews to the Jenks aquarium twice, they had a fantastic time both times, the adults that have been to some of the aquariums I have already mentioned were completely unimpressed. The Jenks aquarium is great for what it is, and I imagine it is an awesome field trip for local elementary and middle school students. You really need to go and time your experience with some of the live demonstration exhibits or you really do not get your moneys worth for the tickets. The highlight of the facility to me is the Oklahoma river life exhibit with the otters and other local wildlife, this was unique and easily the high point of both trips I have taken to the Jenks aquarium. With that being said I could easily see someone that has been to multiple top tier aquariums considering the Jenks aquarium to be a bit of a joke. By comparison it is woefully unimpressive to other facilities.

I don’t think the Oklahoma Aquarium has ever compared itself to the top aquariums in the country , and shouldn’t but for an aquarium in a land-locked State it is pretty well-done. I agree with you that the Ozark stream exhibit is unique and frankly that should be a larger section than it is. The biggest miss with the OK Aquarium is that it doesn’t relate to its riverfront location which is a design miss. If they do a big renovation I hope they add more glazing and windows on that side of the building . I think more interactive exhibits would be good too.

Mayor Holt did NOT say that. Another person replying to him did.

Brah, I didn't say Holt said it. It was the chick that originally tweeted at Holt.

It's still an ugly, pervasive frame of mind that people have though. Gotta have faith in the 'ol, trusty Oklahoman!

Brah, I didn't say Holt said it. It was the chick that originally tweeted at Holt.

It's still an ugly, pervasive frame of mind that people have though. Gotta have faith in the 'ol, trusty Oklahoman!

That is no way unique to OKC, OK or the USA. That's just people in general. Splitting into warring tribes

I'm curious about "landlocked" that keeps coming up. An aquarium is pretty much a big building(s) full of water (fresh, sea, or combo) plunked down somewhere and I don't believe they usually depend on a supply of seawater to operate, they're pretty much autonomous and self-sufficient. So why does being a landlocked state matter as to whether an aquarium is great or just good or bad?

It gave me another reason to start another twitter account to call Steve out on his bull****. He blocks every single account even though I have never been rude, but he is a snowflake that cant take a hard question let alone ask one. Steve Lackmeyer embodies the mediocrity of the Oklahoman.

I really dislike when we take our opinions and disagreements personal. He is just doing the best job he can just like everyone else. Lighten up

I really dislike when we take our opinions and disagreements personal. He is just doing the best job he can just like everyone else. Lighten up

Its great cause he gets just as angry as the city wok guy in South park

just popping in to say this is still just a mind blowingly terrible idea and I hope it never gets built. I'd love to know who is ACTUALLY paying for all of this and what the point is. Not only do we NOT NEED THIS, WE SHOULDN'T DO THIS.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/acquarium082319a.jpg

Yeah, great proof that people scrolling their facebook feeds barely read, barely think about consequences and know little about financing or maintaining infrastructure projects, but LOVE shiny things. Have any more painfully obvious insights about life in 2019 you'd like to show us Pete?

I'm curious about "landlocked" that keeps coming up. An aquarium is pretty much a big building(s) full of water (fresh, sea, or combo) plunked down somewhere and I don't believe they usually depend on a supply of seawater to operate, they're pretty much autonomous and self-sufficient. So why does being a landlocked state matter as to whether an aquarium is great or just good or bad?

An aquarium in a non landlocked area is more likely to have direct involvement with marine research and have greater collaboration opportunities with research institutes, scientists, etc. One in Oklahoma can do the same, more focused on freshwater, but that's limiting compared to oceanic opportunities. Obviously, as tech has progressed, and the world gets more mobile and virtual, these differences won't matter as much as they used to.

just popping in to say this is still just a mind blowingly terrible idea and I hope it never gets built. I'd love to know who is ACTUALLY paying for all of this and what the point is. Not only do we NOT NEED THIS, WE SHOULDN'T DO THIS.

15548

For everyone saying 'build it by the zoo,' weren't there cross-contamination issues between the horses (at Remington) & dolphins which was making it impossible for Aquaticus to operate as it once did?

Horses commonly carry some kind of bacteria which is fatal to dolphins. I've been to the sea lion show within the last year, and compared to what I remember going there as a child, everything was vastly scaled back. The aquarium building itself has been completely shut down. It's an embarrassment.

Just showing that in one day that Instagram post had well more than 4,000 likes.

Numbers on Facebook were huge as well.

you're such a "journalist" now Pete, kudos

15548

VERY Serious lol, 100%

I'd also really like to know why these renderings are popping up so late in this game, who paid for them, and why OKCTalk is suddenly the marketing pipeline for a clear boondoggle that someone is hoping to profit from.

I'd also really like to know why these renderings are popping up so late in this game, who paid for them, and why OKCTalk is suddenly the marketing pipeline for a clear boondoggle that someone is hoping to profit from.

This has been explained, read upthread.

just popping in to say this is still just a mind blowingly terrible idea and I hope it never gets built. I'd love to know who is ACTUALLY paying for all of this and what the point is. Not only do we NOT NEED THIS, WE SHOULDN'T DO THIS.

I wasn’t sure if I agreed with your post since you provided no explanation, reasons, or evidence... but then I saw your use off CAPS LOCK and it totally changed my mind! Great contribution to the dialogue!

I wasn’t sure if I agreed with your post since you provided no explanation, reasons, or evidence... but then I saw your use off CAPS LOCK and it totally changed my mind! Great contribution to the dialogue!

It's really unfair how persuasive caps lock is. It's like a cheat code for arguments.

I've just read through the entire thread and I feel like I am missing something.

Is there a reason we can't do both the aquarium and the mental health, homeless shelter, animal shelter, etc. in MAPS 4?

Most, not all, of the discussion seems to make the choice binary.

I 100% agree with the idea of MAPS 4 being focused on public services and non-downtown issues. However, the aquarium proposal isn't going to block those initiatives from coming to fruition. With all the money we have spent on Bricktown, there is one thing that is still missing: a signature tourist destination. The aquarium would be that signature project. After opening, if private development can't fill in the remaining space, then we need to find better private developers.

I'm seeing a few comments of pro-aquarium people who will vote no without it, but I hope that's not really the case. We really need those type of public service improvements.

Without having access to the scientific polling, my question is: will those voters that mandated a public services focus to their council-person vote no if an aquarium is also included? What about a soccer stadium or new State Fair arena? What is the tipping point for those voters in regards the types of projects they want and the stadiums/marquee attractions?

It seems as though a strong public services focuses plus one signature attraction like the aquarium would be a suitable compromise and a slam dunk at the polls in November, but without a more complete picture of the polling data the city has been using to guide the current process, it's difficult to tell.

I've just read through the entire thread and I feel like I am missing something.

Is there a reason we can't do both the aquarium and the mental health, homeless shelter, animal shelter, etc. in MAPS 4

No reason at all.

The slate will likely include a good mix of social services and a handful of capital projects.

I've just read through the entire thread and I feel like I am missing something.

Is there a reason we can't do both the aquarium and the mental health, homeless shelter, animal shelter, etc. in MAPS 4?

Most, not all, of the discussion seems to make the choice binary.

I 100% agree with the idea of MAPS 4 being focused on public services and non-downtown issues. However, the aquarium proposal isn't going to block those initiatives from coming to fruition. With all the money we have spent on Bricktown, there is one thing that is still missing: a signature tourist destination. The aquarium would be that signature project. After opening, if private development can't fill in the remaining space, then we need to find better private developers.

I'm seeing a few comments of pro-aquarium people who will vote no without it, but I hope that's not really the case. We really need those type of public service improvements.

Without having access to the scientific polling, my question is: will those voters that mandated a public services focus to their council-person vote no if an aquarium is also included? What about a soccer stadium or new State Fair arena? What is the tipping point for those voters in regards the types of projects they want and the stadiums/marquee attractions?

It seems as though a strong public services focuses plus one signature attraction like the aquarium would be a suitable compromise and a slam dunk at the polls in November, but without a more complete picture of the polling data the city has been using to guide the current process, it's difficult to tell.

But we aren't talking about one public attraction, we're talking about several. Also, there is no way this as rendered is a $150M project, no one is really asking for it outside of supposedly the zoo and it has the potential of MASSIVE operations costs. Also, we should be really thinking of the impact of all of these projects 10+ years from now and I just have huge doubts about this project being executed and maintained to a satisfactory level to satisfy that.

I wasn’t sure if I agreed with your post since you provided no explanation, reasons, or evidence... but then I saw your use off CAPS LOCK and it totally changed my mind! Great contribution to the dialogue!

fair comment and sarcasm appreciated, but really, this is a staggeringly stupid thing to be considering and it's being marketed in a very bait and switch, dishonest way, this budget target is a joke and operations expenses are going to be massive, it's just a bad idea, and the people supposedly managing it catastrophically failed to keep a smaller scale aquarium running as designed for less than 20 years and essentially wasted a massive amount of money.

Can any one at all just simply answer in any credible way why this is a thing a city should spend money to build and maintained? I mean, I have a lot of problems with it, but seriously, is there a single credible argument as to why the city should buy a thing like this? Has it every occured to any of you that the lack of an answer to this question is why it wasn't taken seriously. It lacks somethingthe other proposals lack (hell even the stupid soccer arena), a reason, a reason to exist and why the city needs to take a part in it.

Can any one at all just simply answer in any credible way why this is a thing a city should spend money to build and maintained? I mean, I have a lot of problems with it, but seriously, is there a single credible argument as to why the city should buy a thing like this? Has it every occured to any of you that the lack of an answer to this question is why it wasn't taken seriously. It lacks somethingthe other proposals lack (hell even the stupid soccer arena), a reason, a reason to exist and why the city needs to take a part in it.

Because we've done this will a good many of the other past MAPS capital projects, including the convention center where we have spent an additional $250M and the whitewater facility that the city has given millions extra and still has a negative cash flow.

The streetcar doesn't support itself... On and on.

It's about the greater good and the ripple effect on tourism and economic development. I'm not saying it's right, just that this is the way almost all the big MAPS projects have been judged.

Can any one at all just simply answer in any credible way why this is a thing a city should spend money to build and maintained? I mean, I have a lot of problems with it, but seriously, is there a single credible argument as to why the city should buy a thing like this? Has it every occured to any of you that the lack of an answer to this question is why it wasn't taken seriously. It lacks somethingthe other proposals lack (hell even the stupid soccer arena), a reason, a reason to exist and why the city needs to take a part in it.

What's the saying, " if you build it they will come". This would have the ability to attract tourism and generate sales tax which is what the city and all these projects are relying on. The simple idea of maps is to use sales tax to create projects that will generate new sales tax. Imagine how much money the basketball Arena brings in when it's in use. It's the same thing over and over and why they are able to group projects like an animal shelter with projects that will generate money. Now, many don't like the model and will argue that some of the projects are drains and not worth the investment but I'm not getting into that. You asked what valid reason they have, and the very valid reason is people will go to it. It will generate money. And if done right development around it will generate a ton more than the dirty currently is. Not that hard to understand.

But we aren't talking about one public attraction, we're talking about several. Also, there is no way this as rendered is a $150M project, no one is really asking for it outside of supposedly the zoo and it has the potential of MASSIVE operations costs. Also, we should be really thinking of the impact of all of these projects 10+ years from now and I just have huge doubts about this project being executed and maintained to a satisfactory level to satisfy that.

1). The speed of the support that this proposal has garnered negates the point that 'no one' outside the zoo is asking for it. An aquarium has been proposed serval times with positive support.

2). Previous posts in this thread have detailed the costs of aquariums that are considered world class and I think you're OVERLY concerned with the cost issue. In fact, the WHOLE POINT of how MAPS projects are organized is for the facilities to open without a loan or bond payment to make meaning more money for operations from day one.

3). There are prior MAPS projects I have been against, but here's the deal: MAPS is about improving the quality of life for everyone in the city. Not every project is going to that for every single person. So, we do a host of projects that covers as many people as possible. That means projects you or I don't like or agree with move forward at the same time projects we do like and want also move ahead.

Because we've done this will a good many of the other past MAPS capital projects, including the convention center where we have spent an additional $250M and the whitewater facility that the city has given millions extra and still has a negative cash flow.

The streetcar doesn't support itself... On and on.

It's about the greater good and the ripple effect on tourism and economic development. I'm not saying it's right, just that this is the way almost all the big MAPS projects have been judged.

Whitewater facility I hated too, but had a purpose to attract a funded olympic training program,

Convention center hosts conventions therefor forcing loads of people in to the core to spend money,

Streetcar moves people, I'm open without a doubt to argue its efficacy and success, but it had a goal and a purpose

This is a fish museum, if it isn't profitable it literally serves no purpose other than to display fish, no one from out of state will come to a fish museum in Oklahoma, it's as much of a draw as maybe the Gathering place in Tulsa, but I'd guess less, and the City of Tulsa didn't have to pay for that, the City of Dallas didn't pay for their aquarium. Why does the city government have any business running a fish museum? Tell me one credible reason that the city government should have a fully staffed department of people to run a pay for entry fish museum. Why does the city of Oklahoma City need to have staff marine biologists. This isn't a park, it isn't a public amenity, it is not a directly provable source of revenue, and it is obviously a very expensive thing.

Proving that other expendatures are questionable does not serve as a positive argument in favor of this concept having merit Pete.

Whitewater facility I hated too, but had a purpose to attract a funded olympic training program,

Convention center hosts conventions therefor forcing loads of people in to the core to spend money,

Streetcar moves people, I'm open without a doubt to argue its efficacy and success, but it had a goal and a purpose

This is a fish museum, if it isn't profitable it literally serves no purpose other than to display fish, no one from out of state will come to a fish museum in Oklahoma, it's as much of a draw as maybe the Gathering place in Tulsa, but I'd guess less, and the City of Tulsa didn't have to pay for that, the City of Dallas didn't pay for their aquarium. Why does the city government have any business running a fish museum? Tell me one credible reason that the city government should have a fully staffed department of people to run a pay for entry fish museum. Why does the city of Oklahoma City need to have staff marine biologists. This isn't a park, it isn't a public amenity, it is not a directly provable source of revenue, and it is obviously a very expensive thing.

Proving that other expendatures are questionable does not serve as a positive argument in favor of this concept having merit Pete.

So, are you in favor of shutting down the zoo?

Give me one credible reason the city should run and fund an animal museum? The city would have to hire veterinarians and bring in food for the animals not native to here.

1). The speed of the support that this proposal has garnered negates the point that 'no one' outside the zoo is asking for it. An aquarium has been proposed serval times with positive support.

2). Previous posts in this thread have detailed the costs of aquariums that are considered world class and I think you're OVERLY concerned with the cost issue. In fact, the WHOLE POINT of how MAPS projects are organized is for the facilities to open without a loan or bond payment to make meaning more money for operations from day one.

3). There are prior MAPS projects I have been against, but here's the deal: MAPS is about improving the quality of life for everyone in the city. Not every project is going to that for every single person. So, we do a host of projects that covers as many people as possible. That means projects you or I don't like or agree with move forward at the same time projects we do like and want also move ahead.

1) likes on facebook isn't actually real support

2) Opening paid for is not the same as being profitable or low cost, Also, I'm not so much overly concerned with costs as I am very concerned with why on earth this should be a city property?!?!

3) Agreed, and exactly how does a fish museum with paid entry bennefit residents again?

So, are you in favor of shutting down the zoo?

Give me one credible reason the city should run and fund an animal museum? The city would have to hire veterinarians and bring in food for the animals not native to here.

Exactly, substitute "animal" for "fish" in EBAH's post and then try to make EBAH's points, you'll get laughed out of the room (forum).

So, are you in favor of shutting down the zoo?

Give me one credible reason the city should run and fund an animal museum? The city would have to hire veterinarians and bring in food for the animals not native to here.

no, not in favor of closing the zoo, just see no reason why we need to build another small zoo for them to run, especially when their last aquarium was a spectacular boondoggle

1) likes on facebook isn't actually real support

2) Opening paid for is not the same as being profitable or low cost, Also, I'm not so much overly concerned with costs as I am very concerned with why on earth this should be a city property?!?!

3) Agreed, and exactly how does a fish museum with paid entry bennefit residents again?

River Taxi: paid entry. Chesapeake Energy Arena: paid entry. River Cruises: paid entry. Bricktown Ballpark: paid entry. Riversports: paid entry. OKC Zoo: paid entry. Civic Center: paid entry. I could go on...

The benefit is have an attraction to go see and experience. To borrow your use of caps lock: THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT MAPS HAS BEEN ABOUT FOR TWO DECADES.

If you don't see how an aquarium fits into that model, you're either trolling or your mind is made up and you're not going to more no matter what.

no, not in favor of closing the zoo, just see no reason why we need to build another small zoo for them to run, especially when their last aquarium was a spectacular boondoggle

a boondoggle? when did that open? didn't it run for many decades??? hard to call that a boondoggle...