View Full Version : Aquarium
David 08-22-2019, 11:42 AM All of these longer explanations seem to miss the point the aquarium seems to be both (a) the project the public wants and (b) the project that may save MAPS 4. Who cares if the process was bad? Technically, the process hasn't started... nothing is decided or final yet. And, the response seems to indicate the public does not care about minute details that the aquarium isn't at the zoo. OKC's political leaders including Holt will have to decide if they are going to be responsive and successful or stubborn and risk losing MAPS 4. While I personally don't feel as passionate about the aquarium idea the public response is overwhelming.
This is a good point. This may be too late in the originally planned MAPS 4 process, but we have months until the vote. Delay and give this popular idea a fair review.
Urban Pioneer 08-22-2019, 11:42 AM All of these longer explanations seem to miss the point the aquarium seems to be both (a) the project the public wants and (b) the project that may save MAPS 4. Who cares if the process was bad? Technically, the process hasn't started... nothing is decided or final yet. And, the response seems to indicate the public does not care about minute details that the aquarium isn't at the zoo. OKC's political leaders including Holt will have to decide if they are going to be responsive and successful or stubborn and risk losing MAPS 4. While I personally don't feel as passionate about the aquarium idea the public response is overwhelming.
Well, the response by posters on here is pretty overwhelming definitely. And it is possible that the general public would be all for this. I would love it personally. But the majority of "likely voters" has very clearly stated they do not want more MAPS investment downtown and they want the human needs crisis addressed.
The actual MAPS voter is not terribly emblematic of the average public.
CloudDeckMedia 08-22-2019, 11:43 AM You are making a mistake by thinking this is an "either-or" decision: "Either the aquarium is in MAPS4 or I won't vote for it." As Mayor Holt tweeted, the Zoo has its own dedicated sales tax.
Question: What is the Zoo Trust doing to promote an aquarium that WOULDN'T be paid through MAPS? If they're NOT doing that, then they're not hearing what people want.
Laramie 08-22-2019, 11:45 AM In all fairness, let's see what is selected from presented proposals; then voice your opinions to city hall--if you don't think they aren't listening, they have too much at stake to not lend an ear.
Hope to get him to explain this:
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aquariumholt1.jpg
Urban Pioneer 08-22-2019, 11:47 AM the "open process" (that was not really open at all) fully supressed this project a long time ago so it never actually got a fair shake
i suspect because if given a proper presentation by the zoo director would have become a must have on the MAPS 4 list ..
Maybe. But the actual Zoo Board itself could have taken this further. Never rely on a city employee (this guy is a city employee right?) to be your advocate to your boss. Look, I went to nearly all of the MAPS meetings and sat in on building estimation meetings for both transit and the animal shelter because I didn't trust city staff to take their boss on and tell it like it is. The Zoo Board should have taken steps outside of city employees. Also, isn't the COOP site a big brownfield? Aren't there some environmental issues there as well?
Maybe. But the actual Zoo Board itself could have taken this further.
The zoo is a city trust and there are tons of political issues with them pushing for anything, especially after the powers that be tell you 'no'.
OKCRT 08-22-2019, 11:49 AM How about we scrap the Fair Arena and soccer stadium and put that money into an Aquarium that the public seems to be behind. And yes,this should be a major downtown attraction. Put that on the ballot and watch MAPS pass easily. This is something that families all over the area can take their kids to and use.
Ross MacLochness 08-22-2019, 11:49 AM When people are more excited for housing for exotic fish than for actual humans...
GoldFire 08-22-2019, 11:49 AM Personally, I think it would be a big missed opportunity to not have it downtown. We need more attractions like this to continue driving growth with a critical mass in the core. Having it as an extension on the zoo itself would do hardly anything more for growth than any other addition to the zoo itself.
BoulderSooner 08-22-2019, 11:50 AM Here is another perspective. I like the aquarium idea but not as part of the COOP. It is stupid to think we should dump a 150 million dollars subsidy into an area that the developer can’t figure out what to do with it. Also, your crazy to think the renderings beside the aquarium itself would ever come to fruition.
The COOP has failed to realistically develop this site on their own due to unrealistic financial expectations. A public subsidy should not even be part of the discussion. The COOP and lumber yard owners would disproportionately benefit from this investment.
How bout we put it on the Zoo Amp site? Zoo owns the land. Don Hays presentation to council was a joke. The whole thing is a sham to help make the COOP more marketable. You know they will be asking millions for the dirt. Just like they did when the convention center was being considered at the COOP. This is MAPS for millionaires! Joke.
the zoo and the co op people have been in discussion about this project for well over a year one might think that is part of the delay of the development of that site ..
also of course hays presentation about this project was a joke ... he is not the one who should have been presenting ..... the one that should have been "wasn't allowed"
Urban Pioneer 08-22-2019, 11:52 AM The zoo is a city trust and there are tons of political issues with them pushing for anything, especially after the powers that be tell you 'no'.
Aren't they citizen appointees?
checkthat 08-22-2019, 11:56 AM https://www.okczoo.org/zoo-trust
Don Kaspereit, Chairperson
Darryl Schmidt, Vice Chairperson
Kristi Mathis-Mikawa, Secretary
Keith Peters, Assistant Secretary
Cindy Batt
Alice Pippin
Nikki Nice, Ward 7 Councilwoman
David Holt, Mayor
Heather Ross, Surrogate to the Mayor
Craig Freeman, City Manager
Laura Johnson, Surrogate to City Manager
jdg78 08-22-2019, 11:56 AM Don’t care if the zoo and COOP have been in discussion for over a year. The fact of the matter is the aquarium takes up only a small portion of the total site. As such, you now have the COOP potentially benefitting from both the soccer stadium and aquarium. That is potentially well over $200 million in PUBLIC assistance. They tried to fleece the city once by asking for over $75 million for the convention center land.
Put the soccer stadium in Capitol Hill and the aquarium at the zoo or around the boathouses.
When people are more excited for housing for exotic fish than for actual humans...
MAPS has always been about big shiny things, which is why you are seeing this reaction.
checkthat 08-22-2019, 11:59 AM When people are more excited for housing for exotic fish than for actual humans...
Would $150,000,000 be able to eliminate homelessness in Oklahoma City? During their proposal, the housing authority said it could leverage $400-600 million from a MAPS investment of $40-80 million.
jedicurt 08-22-2019, 11:59 AM nevermind. previous comment summed up my thoughts better. lol
Mantison 08-22-2019, 12:02 PM If you think what this city needs is soccer stadium, a fancy fish bowl, or even another fair arena, you are simply not paying attention. It is well past time we spend some of this public money on the actual citizens who live here, every day, and have been brushed under a rug, or an overpass to be blunt. These vanity projects are fine from time to time, and yes, they help spur growth, if done properly. This halfassed proposal is not what we need to "sink MAPS4". This is a reminder that we can't just focus on fun things for the top 30% of income earners to enjoy on the weekends or when "Buffy" is in town for the reunion. We have an obligation to help all citizens in this city, and it is time to step up to that plate, and fund some of the human-centric programs that have fallen by the wayside.
Urban Pioneer 08-22-2019, 12:03 PM https://www.okczoo.org/zoo-trust
Don Kaspereit, Chairperson
Darryl Schmidt, Vice Chairperson
Kristi Mathis-Mikawa, Secretary
Keith Peters, Assistant Secretary
Cindy Batt
Alice Pippin
Heather Ross, Surrogate to the Mayor
So there are seven citizens here who could have forced this months ago. And isn't there some sort of quasi-foundation " Friends for the Zoo?" that has it's own committees? If any organization wanted to turn out the public, the zoo has kids in strollers, including my own. If they really wanted this they definitely handled it badly.
BoulderSooner 08-22-2019, 12:08 PM If you think what this city needs is soccer stadium, a fancy fish bowl, or even another fair arena, you are simply not paying attention. It is well past time we spend some of this public money on the actual citizens who live here, every day, and have been brushed under a rug, or an overpass to be blunt. These vanity projects are fine from time to time, and yes, they help spur growth, if done properly. This halfassed proposal is not what we need to "sink MAPS4". This is a reminder that we can't just focus on fun things for the top 30% of income earners to enjoy on the weekends or when "Buffy" is in town for the reunion. We have an obligation to help all citizens in this city, and it is time to step up to that plate, and fund some of the human-centric programs that have fallen by the wayside.
we certionally don't need more public handouts ..
gopokes88 08-22-2019, 12:11 PM Hahahahaha holt just killed maps4 and I don’t think he even realizes it yet. Voters will shoot it down out of spite, make them go back to the drawing board and add it.
kevin lee 08-22-2019, 12:18 PM I'm only making this post because it seems every other member has logged in and made a comment. Good day.
TheTravellers 08-22-2019, 12:18 PM While I'm all for helping out our less fortunate citizens and will vote for MAPS4 to get things like streetlights, bike trails, sidewalks, Palomar, etc., that's completely *not* what MAPS is intended for, and I wish we could've found another way to pay for all those things I mentioned, but we can't, so we had to turn to MAPS. Here's what MAPS is about, from the city's website - "MAPS (Metropolitan Area Projects) is Oklahoma City's visionary capital improvement program for new and upgraded sports, recreation, entertainment, cultural and convention facilities."
citywokchinesefood 08-22-2019, 12:22 PM ITT: people making wildly hyperbolic statements about the success of the next MAPS.
Timshel 08-22-2019, 12:23 PM So there are seven citizens here who could have forced this months ago. And isn't there some sort of quasi-foundation " Friends for the Zoo?" that has it's own committees? If any organization wanted to turn out the public, the zoo has kids in strollers, including my own. If they really wanted this they definitely handled it badly.
This.
I'm sure those materials have been sitting around for months and could have been "reported" long ago. This smells highly of a) a last ditch hail mary to try and negate previous poor planning, b) a specifically-timed attempt to make the city council look as bad as possible, or more likely, a lot of both.
Seems like a pretty petty way of going about it, and I say that as someone who would fully support this project (the aquarium and soccer stadium in the COOP is a no brainer) and thinks MAPS should continue to be primarily about shiny projects in our city center (with what I believe are other basic city services, currently being included in this MAPS, be funded through more traditional means (a pipe dream, I know)). Whomever decided to put this story out did it knowing full well the aquarium wasn't going to be included in MAPS and is trying to burn down the house because they couldn't get what they want.
However, my guess is that this will have little effect on the outcome by the time we get around to vote, as I suspect the average voter will have a pretty short attention span when it comes to this "controversy" but welcome UP's thoughts on this as well.
Whomever decided to put this story out did it knowing full well the aquarium wasn't going to be included in MAPS and is trying to burn down the house because they couldn't get what they want.
We sought out the people involved after they were not given the opportunity to present as part of the formal list of projects, and then only had a few minutes at the end of one very long meeting and only because of councilperson Nice.
It wouldn't have been a story if the zoo director himself wasn't still keen on it.
Nobody is trying to burn anything down, just trying to get exposure for a popular project.
dankrutka 08-22-2019, 12:37 PM If you think what this city needs is soccer stadium, a fancy fish bowl, or even another fair arena, you are simply not paying attention. It is well past time we spend some of this public money on the actual citizens who live here, every day, and have been brushed under a rug, or an overpass to be blunt. These vanity projects are fine from time to time, and yes, they help spur growth, if done properly. This halfassed proposal is not what we need to "sink MAPS4". This is a reminder that we can't just focus on fun things for the top 30% of income earners to enjoy on the weekends or when "Buffy" is in town for the reunion. We have an obligation to help all citizens in this city, and it is time to step up to that plate, and fund some of the human-centric programs that have fallen by the wayside.
100% agree... but what if an aquarium that only uses 10% of the budget is the attraction that passes social service items? Maybe it’s not an either aquarium or social services, but instead the aquarium helps pass the social service items.
Rover 08-22-2019, 12:37 PM Perhaps the zoo after working on the idea for awhile has figured out it can't get money for the aquarium other ways and took a look at the M4 slate and decided maybe it would be more popular than some other things on it. The zoo may have preferred to do it alone but figures now that it can't.
I know it is more fun to throw chum in the water for talk about all the nefarious conspiracy, corruption, and incompetence, but let's find out what the truth is behind their plans and timing of announcements. Then based on actual facts, criticize away.
Also wanted to point out that all the way along the assumption was that the council would not vote on what will be included in MAPS 4 until September.
Word got out that this got pushed up for a vote next Tuesday, so there was a small window of time to get this information out before the vote was taken.
The last public meeting was just held on August 6th, which is when Nice finally got a small slot for this group to speak.
I know it is more fun to throw chum in the water for talk about all the nefarious conspiracy, corruption, and incompetence, but let's find out what the truth is behind their plans and timing of announcements. Then based on actual facts, criticize away.
Considering this was to be a transparent and public process, there are lots of questions that require answers before things get set in stone.
soonerguru 08-22-2019, 12:47 PM Real question. How world class would a $100-150M aquarium be? I have no idea how much other world class aquariums have cost. As discussed in other threads, if we build an aquarium, we should do it right...does $100M get us there?
No. This is a fantasy. The best aquarium I’ve been to, in Baltimore, would cost half a billion to build, if not more. This is marketing and PR sizzle.
I do find it interesting that the mayors response was " well the zoo hasn't its own funding source" which completely ignores that so does the fairgrounds. So does Embark, even though it's well below the bar of what it's being asked to do. So many of our projects have had funding sources but some like the white water facility didn't and then we had to give them more money after their first shortfall.
Laramie 08-22-2019, 12:54 PM Sounds as though they are ready to go forward with the project proposals.
We'll have 2.5 months to look at possible alternatives to either get this on the ballot or funding through the Zoo's sources.
Timshel 08-22-2019, 12:57 PM just trying to get exposure for a popular project.
Fair enough, but let's not act like this timing is just a coincidence. And assuming you're basing the project's popularity on the OKCTalk story's reception on Twitter/Instagram (and I personally hesitate to use social media response as a proxy for voting data or the entire populus' position more generally), it sounds like that may not align with the project's popularity at the voting booth, which is all that matters.
But more importantly, I should have clarified that I wasn't referring to you, but to whomever at the zoo pushed the story out. And if it took you going to them for the zoo to have the idea to appeal to the public after not making the initial slate of projects then they clearly didn't have a chance in the first place and were prepared to only make a half-hearted attempt to push this through, compared to most, if not all, of the other projects that made the initial cut being supported by fairly sophisticated and coordinated campaigns to make them happen (and even some of those do not feel totally secure in their place on the MAPS4 slate). (Sorry for the insanely long sentence - too tied up at work to make this sound better. :D)
OKCRT 08-22-2019, 12:58 PM No. This is a fantasy. The best aquarium I’ve been to, in Baltimore, would cost half a billion to build, if not more. This is marketing and PR sizzle.
Yes,do it right or don't do it at all. Scrap the crap and build a world class attraction that the city can be proud of for years to come and something that the people actually want.
soonerguru 08-22-2019, 01:06 PM Is this actually a "new story," as it is being presented? Is this not the same proposal that failed to get a hearing, or has something changed to make it newsworthy? I recall some discussion last spring on the MAPS ideas thread but didn't see much excitement about it.
Fair enough, but let's not act like this timing is just a coincidence. And assuming you're basing the project's popularity on the OKCTalk story's reception on Twitter/Instagram (and I personally hesitate to use social media response as a proxy for voting data or the entire populus' position more generally), it sounds like that may not align with the project's popularity at the voting booth, which is all that matters.
But more importantly, I should have clarified that I wasn't referring to you, but to whomever at the zoo pushed the story out. And if it took you going to them for the zoo to have the idea to appeal to the public after not making the initial slate of projects then they clearly didn't have a chance in the first place and were prepared to only make a half-hearted attempt to push this through, compared to most, if not all, of the other projects that made the initial cut being supported by fairly sophisticated and coordinated campaigns to make them happen (and even some of those do not feel totally secure in their place on the MAPS4 slate).
To your first point, we have no idea about voting popularity for this project. The only evidence we have is the comments here and on social media, and it's overwhelmingly positive.
The real question is why this project was pushed aside early in the process (as Mayor Holt just tweeted) and long before the public presentations.
And since we are a democracy, Holt is an elected official, this involves a lot of tax dollars, and Holt himself promoted the process as being highly transparent, answered are owed.
Is this actually a "new story," as it is being presented? Is this not the same proposal that failed to get a hearing, or has something changed to make it newsworthy? I recall some discussion last spring on the MAPS ideas thread but didn't see much excitement about it.
Until they got a very short time at the end of the last public MAPS meeting, I personally didn't know any of the details or that the zoo director was so heavily behind this.
That meeting was 16 days ago.
Timshel 08-22-2019, 01:11 PM My impression is that it's further details of the proposal that failed, being presented by OKCTalk to shed light on a project that didn't make the cut and by the zoo in an attempt to create some grassroots demand for the project, which Holt has re-affirmed is not going to happen. Not terribly newsworthy in my mind as the story currently stands. The photos/renderings provided in the story look like they probably would have been included in the full presentation presented by the zoo to city council had they had the opportunity.
As a sidebar, I really hope we get Ed Shadid advocating for this shiny downtown toy and railing against the city council for shadily choosing projects to improve basic city services designed to help those in most need. We will have then truly entered the upside down. (This is a joke and not to be taken seriously.)
(Pete beat me to the punch, Soonerguru, but I'll leave my post as-is.)
soonerguru 08-22-2019, 01:21 PM To your first point, we have no idea about voting popularity for this project. The only evidence we have is the comments here and on social media, and it's overwhelmingly positive.
The real question is why this project was pushed aside early in the process (as Mayor Holt just tweeted) and long before the public presentations.
And since we are a democracy, Holt is an elected official, this involves a lot of tax dollars, and Holt himself promoted the process as being highly transparent, answered are owed.
Were these renderings presented earlier? If not, why? Did they just have these renderings done? If so, why wait until the projects are already decided before releasing them? None of this makes any sense.
If as you point out, public response is so positive, then why not create public support before the presentations were ever made to council?
soonerguru 08-22-2019, 01:21 PM To your first point, we have no idea about voting popularity for this project. The only evidence we have is the comments here and on social media, and it's overwhelmingly positive.
The real question is why this project was pushed aside early in the process (as Mayor Holt just tweeted) and long before the public presentations.
And since we are a democracy, Holt is an elected official, this involves a lot of tax dollars, and Holt himself promoted the process as being highly transparent, answered are owed.
Were these renderings presented earlier? If not, why? Did they just have these renderings done? If so, why wait until the projects are already decided before releasing them? None of this makes any sense.
If as you point out, public response is so positive, then why not create public support before the presentations were ever made to council?
OkiePoke 08-22-2019, 01:24 PM No. This is a fantasy. The best aquarium I’ve been to, in Baltimore, would cost half a billion to build, if not more. This is marketing and PR sizzle.
Monte Ray Aquarium was built for about $55M. In today's dollars, that is about $150M.
Fairly recent study for an aquarium came in at ~$100M.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/10/16/feasibility-study-puts-cost-to-build-aquarium-at.html
The Zoo mentioned it would spend their own capital on the project as well. Not sure of how much that would be, but I assume that is adding to the $100M-$150M. A $200M aquarium would be world class.
Timshel 08-22-2019, 01:31 PM T The only evidence we have is the comments here .
I'm inclined to believe UP when he says he has knowledge of the results of the polling data. That being said, I can totally empathize with questioning the methodology of the polls, but are you really asserting that you believe the chamber, our chamber, would try to skew the polls away from this aquarium and towards helping accused criminals? I think not.
jedicurt 08-22-2019, 01:37 PM No. This is a fantasy. The best aquarium I’ve been to, in Baltimore, would cost half a billion to build, if not more. This is marketing and PR sizzle.
that aquarium was build for 21.3 Million in 1981, based upon every inflation calculator out there... the most i saw was saying that would be about $80 Million in todays dollars. now i'm certain they have probably done some renovations since then... but i think 150M would get us a pretty dang good one
soonerguru 08-22-2019, 01:39 PM Monte Ray Aquarium was built for about $55M. In today's dollars, that is about $150M.
Fairly recent study for an aquarium came in at ~$100M.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/10/16/feasibility-study-puts-cost-to-build-aquarium-at.html
The Zoo mentioned it would spend their own capital on the project as well. Not sure of how much that would be, but I assume that is adding to the $100M-$150M. A $200M aquarium would be world class.
As Ed Shadid has pointed out numerous times, the Zoo already receives a permanent funding source through our city sales tax. I'm a member of Zoo Friends, and support the Zoo, but I'm intrigued by what appears to be a last-minute effort to hurt MAPS 4 and / or the mayor.
soonerguru 08-22-2019, 01:40 PM Monte Ray Aquarium was built for about $55M. In today's dollars, that is about $150M.
Fairly recent study for an aquarium came in at ~$100M.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/10/16/feasibility-study-puts-cost-to-build-aquarium-at.html
The Zoo mentioned it would spend their own capital on the project as well. Not sure of how much that would be, but I assume that is adding to the $100M-$150M. A $200M aquarium would be world class.
As Ed Shadid has pointed out numerous times, the Zoo already receives a permanent funding source through our city sales tax. I'm a member of Zoo Friends, and support the Zoo, but I'm intrigued by what appears to be a last-minute effort to hurt MAPS 4 and / or the mayor.
David 08-22-2019, 01:43 PM Well, the response by posters on here is pretty overwhelming definitely. And it is possible that the general public would be all for this. I would love it personally. But the majority of "likely voters" has very clearly stated they do not want more MAPS investment downtown and they want the human needs crisis addressed.
The actual MAPS voter is not terribly emblematic of the average public.
Was the polling the Chamber was working off of for this decision just about investments downtown and not specific projects, incidentally? Things can change greatly once the public sees real projects to get excited by. I personally wasn't particularly excited by the aquarium idea at all until I saw the plans and the canal integration.
jedicurt 08-22-2019, 01:46 PM As Ed Shadid has pointed out numerous times, the Zoo already receives a permanent funding source through our city sales tax. I'm a member of Zoo Friends, and support the Zoo, but I'm intrigued by what appears to be a last-minute effort to hurt MAPS 4 and / or the mayor.
amazing how seeing the same situation with different results. i'm intrigued that an organization such as the zoo, feels that the only way to actually get heard (after getting ignored in the MAPS meetings) is to do something like this after the city council presumably moved up the date for finalizing projects by several weeks
Urban Pioneer 08-22-2019, 01:46 PM I'm inclined to believe UP when he says he has knowledge of the results of the polling data. That being said, I can totally empathize with questioning the methodology of the polls, but are you really asserting that you believe the chamber, our chamber, would try to skew the polls away from this aquarium and towards helping accused criminals? I think not.
I have seen multiple scientific polls this go around. In fact, there has been more internal data about what the likely voter thinks than anytime previously before that I can recall. There is a extremely consistent thread between the polls that is distinctly against additional downtown investment and strongly for human needs and addressing perceived crises.
And again, the "like voter" is different than the general public. What one can do is influence likely voters though a meaningful education campaign. But even if they were to start today and lets say this MAPS docket vote was delayed into September when on here some thought it would be, it would take at least three to six weeks utilizing an exceptional marketing team to penetrate the voting public's zietgiest and have show up in polling.
These people royally screwed up if they really wanted this thing.
For everyone saying 'build it by the zoo,' weren't there cross-contamination issues between the horses (at Remington) & dolphins which was making it impossible for Aquaticus to operate as it once did?
catch22 08-22-2019, 01:47 PM Wow! This would be awesome!
jedicurt 08-22-2019, 01:48 PM For everyone saying 'build it by the zoo,' weren't there cross-contamination issues between the horses (at Remington) & dolphins which was making it impossible for Aquaticus to operate as it once did?
also, looking at the current land for the zoo... where would they put it? have it just take up the whole eastern side of the waterfront?
tyeomans 08-22-2019, 01:49 PM If true, I'm going to be completely disappointed if this is not included on Maps 4. I always complain to everyone I know that OKC needs more tourist/entertainment attractions as OKC seems to be on the more conservative side when it comes to entertainment. I feel as if having a world-class aquarium like the renderings show could without a doubt be a HUGE game-changer for the city and probably be the most successful thing to come out of the MAPS initiatives. It saddens me to think that something this amazing could simply just be thrown to the curb. I bleed OKC blood, and it's a place that I am so proud to say that I'm from and having something like this excites me even more to think that OKC could house a unique destination that no other place compares to. Just when I think we are getting an A+ project, I see the report card only to find out we got a B.
soonerguru 08-22-2019, 01:59 PM Until they got a very short time at the end of the last public MAPS meeting, I personally didn't know any of the details or that the zoo director was so heavily behind this.
That meeting was 16 days ago.
Did the director of the Zoo push for the story? It seems pretty simple to me that if they had done any type of public education effort this would have been a contender for inclusion.
This feels very orchestrated.
On another note, the OKCTalk universe is definitely more pro-development than the average voter. In talking to voters throughout the city for the last year and a half, I have heard so much negativity toward further downtown development, even from people who voted for and supported previous MAPS initiatives. Now, at the last second, we get this shiny downtown project pr push.
People want MAPS expanded to neighborhoods, away from downtown, and to city services. That is clear to people paying attention. This finding has been consistent in multiple scientific polls of likely municipal voters.
Laramie 08-22-2019, 02:10 PM For everyone saying 'build it by the zoo,' weren't there cross-contamination issues between the horses (at Remington) & dolphins which was making it impossible for Aquaticus to operate as it once did?
Actually, IIRC the Dolphins can't survive this far inland above sea level; OKC's 1201' elevation didn't help--which led to pneumonia. May had more to do with the zoo's inexperience though.
Please correct me if I received the wrong information, strange though, Las Vegas has a dolphin exhibit...
Urban Pioneer 08-22-2019, 02:20 PM Was there any sort of campaign website for this shiny object?
OKCRT 08-22-2019, 02:23 PM Actually, IIRC the Dolphins can't survive this far inland above sea level; OKC's 1201' elevation didn't help--which led to pneumonia. May had more to do with the zoo's inexperience though.
Please correct me if I received the wrong information, strange though, Las Vegas has a dolphin exhibit...
Well shoot,I was hoping to swim or at least wade with the dolphins in the canal.
Laramie 08-22-2019, 02:24 PM Was there any sort of campaign website for this shiny object?
In all fairness, I certainly don't recall. . .
jerrywall 08-22-2019, 02:25 PM Actually, IIRC the Dolphins can't survive this far inland above sea level; OKC's 1201' elevation didn't help--which led to pneumonia. May had more to do with the zoo's inexperience though.
Please correct me if I received the wrong information, strange though, Las Vegas has a dolphin exhibit...
As I recall, and everything I could find online backs up my spotty memory, they never did figure out what exactly was the source of the bacterial infection was that lead to the deaths, which led them to returning the remaining dolphins to their owners and closing the exhibit. I'd also love to know if there is more to the story.
jerrywall 08-22-2019, 02:32 PM that aquarium was build for 21.3 Million in 1981, based upon every inflation calculator out there... the most i saw was saying that would be about $80 Million in todays dollars. now i'm certain they have probably done some renovations since then... but i think 150M would get us a pretty dang good one
I'm also sort of curious how the National Aquarium became the only bar... like, if somehow what's done isn't as nice as the National Aquarium, it's not world class? I guess any museum that's not the Smithsonian isn't worth it either?
Regardless, agree with you, and with others, in the fact that 150M would definitely get us a pretty nice aquarium. Would it be the best and biggest in the country? Course not, and I don't think that's a reasonable expectation in a land locked state.
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