View Full Version : David Boren
OKCretro 03-27-2019, 08:48 AM interesting read
https://nondoc.com/2019/03/26/ou-grad-alleges-david-boren-tripp-hall-sexual-battery/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=nondocmedia&utm_content=OU%20graduate%20alleges%20sexual%20bat tery%20by%20David%20Boren,%20Tripp%20Hall
FighttheGoodFight 03-27-2019, 10:25 AM OU's Statement:
“In November 2018, OU received a report of alleged sexual misconduct. The report triggered an immediate external investigation by the university. The goal of this investigation since the beginning has been to proceed with the highest degrees of professionalism, confidentiality and sincere concern for all parties involved particularly potential victims. This is our duty. While individuals may share their own personal accounting, it is critical that the university proceed deliberately, objectively and with respect for all the individuals involved. The investigation is not complete and comment on specifics at this time would be inappropriate.”
David 03-27-2019, 11:49 AM Welp, we now have the allegations and they do seem pretty credible. Now the wait to see what the investigations result in.
catch22 03-27-2019, 12:39 PM Yikes.
Since the allegations we know about happened some time ago, I wonder what prompted someone to file the complaint last November.
Boren's last day as president was in August 2018.
FighttheGoodFight 03-27-2019, 12:57 PM Norman Police state this was out of their jurisdiction.
"Investigators are working to ensure this information is provided to the proper authorities,"
OKC Guy 03-27-2019, 01:03 PM Welp, we now have the allegations and they do seem pretty credible. Now the wait to see what the investigations result in.
I seem to recall rape allegations against OU RB Rodney Anderson with some rush to judgement done.. Lets wait for facts to come out this time around is what I would ask from folks.
BoulderSooner 03-27-2019, 01:29 PM Norman Police state this was out of their jurisdiction.
"Investigators are working to ensure this information is provided to the proper authorities,"
aligations happened in houston i believe
Rover 03-27-2019, 01:30 PM Since the allegations we know about happened some time ago, I wonder what prompted someone to file the complaint last November.
Boren's last day as president was in August 2018.
And, didn't the complainant ask for money from Boren before actually filing a complaint?
There seems to be more to this story. Let's see.
Midtowner 03-27-2019, 01:31 PM One could only speculate, but it would seem the current environment might encourage people to come forward with potentially damaging information re Boren. It's hard to imagine this is all unrelated.
Midtowner 03-27-2019, 01:34 PM Norman Police state this was out of their jurisdiction.
"Investigators are working to ensure this information is provided to the proper authorities,"
The University hired an outside law firm to conduct an investigation. Ordinarily something like this would be handled internally by the Title IX office. It seems like an enormous waste of resources to me unless this will be used as a pretext to go after Boren's retirement, which should be some ungodly monthly check anyhow considering all of the retirement incomes he's collected from his days in elected office.
And, didn't the complainant ask for money from Boren before actually filing a complaint?
There seems to be more to this story. Let's see.
It's unclear if Eddy (who admitted to asking Boren for money) is the same person that filed the complaint in November that sparked the investigation.
The article just said "teacher's assistant" but Boren had several over the years.
I can't figure out if Eddy was the one who filed.
My impression is that it was someone else because Eddy admitted that he gave a written letter to Boren's attorney stating that Boren had done nothing wrong. Then, he said, he then tried to extort money from Boren which obviously didn't work, and only then changed his story with he shared with NonDoc and then went back and told authorities.
BUT, it could have been Eddy who filed the report and then tried to extort Boren and only after that failed did he come out with this story and change what he had previously said in a signed statment. That statement was only a couple of weeks ago.
Rover 03-27-2019, 02:04 PM Eddy's lawyer isn't Avenatti is it? :)
This whole article is confusing, so I went back and re-read it. Here is my best shot at a timeline pertaining to Eddy.
2010 - alleged incident in Houston with Boren and Tripp Hall
2111 - at least 2 arrests, goes into rehab
2111 - exits hospital, Boren allegedly contacts him
2111/12 - still working for Boren, alleges more unwanted touching and advances
August 2018 - Boren's presidency ends
Late 2018 / early 2019 - OU hires Jones Day law firm to investigate Boren; it's not clear what prompted it but the article mentions someone filed a Title IX complaint who had previously spoken to Eddy about the Houston trip.
March 14: Eddy gives Boren's attorney a letter saying the allegations about Boren attributed to him were untrue
March 17: Eddy calls Boren in an attempt to extort money
Today: Story comes out in NonDoc with Eddy's allegations
CloudDeckMedia 03-27-2019, 04:08 PM The University hired an outside law firm to conduct an investigation. Ordinarily something like this would be handled internally by the Title IX office. It seems like an enormous waste of resources to me unless this will be used as a pretext to go after Boren's retirement, which should be some ungodly monthly check anyhow considering all of the retirement incomes he's collected from his days in elected office.
Due to the serious allegations, the prominence of the accused and possible accusations of an improper internal investigation, I understand why OU brought in outside counsel. Now - have the accused filed police reports in the correct jurisdiction where the alleged crime(s) occurred?
catch22 03-27-2019, 05:18 PM Pete (I’m not poking the bear or ruffling feathers, genuinely curious), are you implying that his allegations are potentially untrue, or at the least distorted truth, in order to secure a “shutup” payoff?
baralheia 03-27-2019, 05:21 PM Hold up, it's Jess Eddy making the accusation? I'm immediately suspect. I remember when he ran for office in my house district (HD92) in 2016 and he was an absolute rabble rouser... Dude even tried to campaign by interrupting neighborhood association meetings. Not going to lie, my opinion of the guy is pretty low; based on how he conducted himself in 2016, he seems like someone who would do anything for the attention. Mind you, this is a gut feeling and only based on my observations of his campaign - but still.
That said, the allegations he has made are very serious, and I truly hope there is a full, fair, and proper investigation. Rabble rouser or not, if Jess truly was harrassed in this manner by Boren, that's totally unacceptable. I just can't deny that I have reservations about his claims.
Pete (I’m not poking the bear or ruffling feathers, genuinely curious), are you implying that his allegations are potentially untrue, or at the least distorted truth, in order to secure a “shutup” payoff?
No, I'm just trying to understand what happened and when.
I'd also love to know who submitted the Title IX complaint, as it wasn't Eddy himself.
I'll say the same thing with Boren that I said about Kavanaugh. The accuser has undermined his own allegations through some aspects of his behavior. In Kavanaugh's case, it was Blasey Ford waiting 30+ years to come forward (and she chose quite the moment to do it). In Boren's case, this guy sends a letter stating it was all a lie and then tries to extort money.
I'm not going to make any judgment about the truth (or untruth) of either claim. I'm just saying that the accuser here has made it impossible for me to give his accusations any real credibility. Could it have happened? Sure. But without corroboration, I can't give it any weight.
Jersey Boss 03-27-2019, 08:01 PM Investigative reporting by its nature ruffles feathers and pokes the bear. Not enough poking in the daily okc rag.
Mr. Blue Sky 03-27-2019, 08:38 PM Talk about opening up a can of worms. These kind of things go way back with David Boren. A couple of books call out Boren for harassment of young male assistants and even pages while in DC. As for who to trust, are we expected to trust someone who put their hand on a Bible in a U.S. Senate race and swore he was not a homosexual? Back then it was the kiss of death in Oklahoma. But, he's carried the charade and the lie for years. Too many people know he's homosexual. Which is fine! Just admit it, don't swear you are not, and be honest. It's hard to trust him now.
^
That bible thing was in 1978 and after his opponent publically stated Boren was gay.
Things were very, very different in 1978, especially in Oklahoma and especially around this issue. So much so, that these types of accusaions were enough to ruin someone's life, even if they weren't a politician.
I knew a lot of people who were deeply in the closet at that time, and none were public figures. Couldn't even be honest with themselves, let alone others. And frankly, that is more a commentary on the culture at the time.
It's entirely possible Boren didn't believe he was gay when he made that pronouncement and we still don't know if he is or isn't.
But who cares if he's gay, bi or otherwise? Sexual harassment is the issue. The fact that it keeps being brought up that he may be gay or have those tendancies tells me that many still view that as some sort of huge character flaw in itself.
And even if you take the leap and believe Boren completely lied about his sexuality, do the same people that have a big issue with that -- something that happened over 40 years ago -- have the same condemnation for politicians and public figures that openly and frequently lie about things that actually matter?
dankrutka 03-28-2019, 11:01 AM ^But who cares if he's gay, bi or otherwise? Sexual harassment is the issue. The fact that it keeps being brought up that he may be gay or have those tendancies tells me that many still view that as some sort of huge character flaw in itself.
Bingo. If Boren sexually harassed someone then that is the only important thing. Lying about being gay in a homophobic society is a means to survive, which is why it's important to respect people's choices to share their sexual orientation on their own terms. Of course, there's still a lot of homophobia in Oklahoma and it's bigoted to connect sexual orientation to sexual assault unless you're also pointing out the heterosexuality of a man who sexually assaults a young woman.
Midtowner 03-28-2019, 01:29 PM Due to the serious allegations, the prominence of the accused and possible accusations of an improper internal investigation, I understand why OU brought in outside counsel. Now - have the accused filed police reports in the correct jurisdiction where the alleged crime(s) occurred?
For civil liability purposes, any action against OU would be barred by the Statute of Limitations. I think the statute on a federal civil rights case is 2 years and for intentional torts, the statute is 1 year. I'm struggling with understanding what possible worst case scenario the University would be justified in spending public money to investigate possible bad acts for which there is no remaining remedy for the alleged victim. I'm coming up empty.
There's a reason, I think, that the Title IX office didn't investigate--there's nothing to investigate when there's a years old allegation of a former student against a former head of the University. Title IX investigations are mostly about providing education and safety. They don't send anyone to jail, they don't report to law enforcement, they can expel students, but again, no party had any connection to the University when this was apparently submitted last year.
^
There may be issues since Boren is still employed by the university. particularly if they have reason to believe there have been other incidences, perhaps more recently.
Midtowner 03-28-2019, 01:36 PM ^
There may be issues since Boren is still employed by the university. particularly if they have reason to believe there have been other incidences, perhaps more recently.
I forgot about that. The outside law firm makes more sense now. I can definitely see the current administration being concerned about being sued by Boren as a public employee against an employer.
Mr. Blue Sky 03-28-2019, 08:00 PM ^
That bible thing was in 1978 and after his opponent publically stated Boren was gay.
Things were very, very different in 1978, especially in Oklahoma and especially around this issue. So much so, that these types of accusaions were enough to ruin someone's life, even if they weren't a politician.
I knew a lot of people who were deeply in the closet at that time, and none were public figures. Couldn't even be honest with themselves, let alone others. And frankly, that is more a commentary on the culture at the time.
It's entirely possible Boren didn't believe he was gay when he made that pronouncement and we still don't know if he is or isn't.
But who cares if he's gay, bi or otherwise? Sexual harassment is the issue. The fact that it keeps being brought up that he may be gay or have those tendancies tells me that many still view that as some sort of huge character flaw in itself.
And even if you take the leap and believe Boren completely lied about his sexuality, do the same people that have a big issue with that -- something that happened over 40 years ago -- have the same condemnation for politicians and public figures that openly and frequently lie about things that actually matter?
I know it was 1978. I also said in my post that coming out as gay then would have been the political kiss of death. I never said it matters if he is gay or not - only his lying about it for political purposes. And yes, he knew he was gay then. He had already been caught at a state lodge by Reuel Little, a politician in his own right, cheating on Little’s daughter with a young man. I think it does matter and revisionism by excusing his deceptiveness because of any reason is just wrong.
To Dan, Your post was clearly referencing Pete’s and what I wrote. I am not a bigot. I said everything you and Pete said. I just don’t excuse lying at great lengths about it to just win political office.
Too many things go way back. Not being gay, the blatant deception which I can’t accept. We can agree on disagreeing about that. But I felt very much like my words were taken wrong by you and Pete both. I don’t care about his sexual orientation, but only feel his word means little when it comes to things about his life - straight, gay or otherwise. That’s why it matters - to me - today with these accusations.
OSBI now taking charge of the investigation:
https://newsok.com/article/5627176/osbi-investigating-boren
Mr. Blue Sky, my comments were more general in nature, as almost every article about these issues with Boren brings up the homosexuality angle, and thus conflates it with very serious allegations which could be criminal in nature.
I'm not a Boren apologist but just in general, I wouldn't judge anyone who was forced into denying being gay in the late '70s, particularly in Okahoma. And he was forced by his opponent. He didn't have the luxury of not denying, as that would have been equally devastating to his career and aspirations. And importantly, his sexuallity had no bearing on his qualifications for public office or anything else, so who was harmed?
While lying is never a good thing, there are degrees and this seems like a pretty minor transgression in the grand scheme of things.
catch22 03-29-2019, 09:38 AM ^ I’d say even today in Oklahoma it’s a risky proposition to be openly gay in any role of power or authority. James Cooper in OKC really just now broke that ceiling, and time will tell if others can do the same.
Midtowner 03-29-2019, 10:57 AM ^ I’d say even today in Oklahoma it’s a risky proposition to be openly gay in any role of power or authority. James Cooper in OKC really just now broke that ceiling, and time will tell if others can do the same.
Cooper is in maybe the bluest political subdivision in the entire State. Let's not pretend James Cooper would win a race in Hobart.
Cooper is in maybe the bluest political subdivision in the entire State. Let's not pretend James Cooper would win a race in Hobart.
You could argue he would have a tough time in almost any other city council ward. And there are at least a few where being openly gay would have effectively killed his chances.
catch22 03-30-2019, 12:37 AM Cooper is in maybe the bluest political subdivision in the entire State. Let's not pretend James Cooper would win a race in Hobart.
That’s my point. It’s political suicide in most of the state even in 2019. It’s excusible to lie about it, IMHO. It’s a no-win situation really.
Boren accuser praised him to investigators hired by OU
https://newsok.com/article/5627300/boren-accuser-praised-him-to-investigators-hired-by-ou
The OU graduate now accusing retired President David Boren of sexual battery told investigators in February "that never happened."
"It's just been clear ... that there's just a political vendetta against him," Jess Eddy, 29, told attorneys for Jones Day, the law firm hired by the University of Oklahoma last fall to investigate allegations of sexual misconduct against Boren. "That's what's going on."
Eddy praised Boren, 77, for "the quality of his character."
"He was nothing ever to me but encouraging, supportive," Eddy said, according to a transcript of the 90-minute interview.
okatty 03-30-2019, 09:21 AM This story is written up in The NY Times
David Boren, Former University of Oklahoma President, Faces Sexual Misconduct Allegations
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/03/29/us/ap-us-boren-university-investigation.html
http://www.oudaily.com/news/alleged-sexual-misconduct-by-ou-s-david-boren-tripp-hall/article_fcd70c96-5417-11e9-82d1-4fde765b91b2.html
Eddy said he believes the report was filed by Belinda Biscoe, senior associate vice president of university outreach, in November 2018. If Eddy’s allegation is true, the report came after months of personal and professional dispute between Biscoe and Eddy when they worked together from July 2017 to March 2018.
Eddy said he told Biscoe the details of Boren’s alleged misconduct in 2017 in a private conversation he never meant to be shared, and Biscoe was the only current university administrator who knew of Eddy’s story.
While Biscoe is a mandatory reporter under OU’s Title IX system, more than a year passed between the time Eddy said he told her about his alleged interactions with Boren, and the November 2018 Title IX report.
By way of backround, people in positions where they are deemed mandatory reporters under Title IX are required to report 'as soon as they become aware' of an incident.
Why would this woman report this a full year after she was allegedly told about it?
Lafferty Daniel 04-03-2019, 03:20 PM http://www.oudaily.com/news/alleged-sexual-misconduct-by-ou-s-david-boren-tripp-hall/article_fcd70c96-5417-11e9-82d1-4fde765b91b2.html
By way of backround, people in positions where they are deemed mandatory reporters under Title IX are required to report 'as soon as they become aware' of an incident.
Why would this woman report this a full year after she was allegedly told about it?
Is this a serious question? Because unless I'm missing something, the answer is pretty obvious. She was trying to protect either her job or Boren or both. Which is why this wasn't made public until after Boren left.
Is this a serious question? Because unless I'm missing something, the answer is pretty obvious. She was trying to protect either her job or Boren or both. Which is why this wasn't made public until after Boren left.
Boren's last day was August 1st. This report was filed in November.
Lafferty Daniel 04-05-2019, 09:12 AM Boren's last day was August 1st. This report was filed in November.
That's.....exactly what I said. She wasn't going to bring this up while Boren was still her boss.
That's.....exactly what I said. She wasn't going to bring this up while Boren was still her boss.
He had not been the boss of anyone for over 3 months before she filed her report.
Lafferty Daniel 04-05-2019, 09:22 AM He had not been the boss of anyone for over 3 months before she filed her report.
Am I taking crazy pills? Why can't you understand this? She wasn't going to make this public when Boren was her boss. Do we agree on that? Because to me that's pretty easy to see.
So, you think since he resigned August 1st that she should have made this public August 2nd? Waiting until November, which is only three months, is just too long for you?
Am I taking crazy pills? Why can't you understand this? She wasn't going to make this public when Boren was her boss. Do we agree on that? Because to me that's pretty easy to see.
So, you think since he resigned August 1st that she should have made this public August 2nd? Waiting until November, which is only three months, is just too long for you?
Yes, because law states she is REQUIRED to report as soon as she was made aware.
So even if you want to use the excuse you are providing (which is highly speculative and still does not absolve her) then she had zero excuse to wait three more months.
And a reminder, the non-reporting of similar issues at Penn State caused the university president, their footballl coach and lots of others to lose their jobs.
I happen to believe at least some of these allegations against Boren are likely to be true.
But there is also a separate issue of why this is coming out now, especially given everything else that has been happening at OU with Gallogly and the regents.
jn1780 05-12-2019, 06:44 PM Probably not the right thread. But, I wonder if any of this post Boren saga is related.
https://newsok.com/article/5631228/sources-james-l.-gallogly-to-resign-as-ou-president
OKCretro 05-30-2019, 08:38 AM https://oklahoman.com/article/5632595/former-student-sues-ou-over-false-rankings
jerrywall 05-30-2019, 09:13 AM https://oklahoman.com/article/5632595/former-student-sues-ou-over-false-rankings
Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't pick a school based on some ranking/listing. And if I did, it wouldn't be the 45th one down the list. I could see choosing a top 10 school, but I feel like when you're getting much lower on the list than that, you'd be looking at other factors. It's not like OU is an unknown quantity.
Also, the numbers that were fudged were a very small percentage of the total ranking.
Any impact on the final rank had to have been very minimal.
Jeepnokc 05-30-2019, 09:20 AM Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't pick a school based on some ranking/listing. And if I did, it wouldn't be the 45th one down the list. I could see choosing a top 10 school, but I feel like when you're getting much lower on the list than that, you'd be looking at other factors. It's not like OU is an unknown quantity.
And...she transferred to Univ of Houston which is ranked much lower than OU with a 171st overall and 95th in Business school category. Wonder when she transferred?
David 05-30-2019, 09:26 AM That lawsuit looks like a waste of time and money, and I suspect there is more to the story.
ditm4567 05-30-2019, 10:45 AM And...she transferred to Univ of Houston which is ranked much lower than OU with a 171st overall and 95th in Business school category. Wonder when she transferred?
Spring 2018 semester
Lafferty Daniel 05-30-2019, 10:00 PM Also, the numbers that were fudged were a very small percentage of the total ranking.
Any impact on the final rank had to have been very minimal.
That's not true. They went from being ranked #98 in 2017 to in the 120's in 2018. So it obviously dropped them quite a bit.
That's not true. They went from being ranked #98 in 2017 to in the 120's in 2018. So it obviously dropped them quite a bit.
The alumni giving rates comprise 5% of the total score.
We have no way of knowing what else may have affected the ranking, especially since during that same year total alumni contributions were down signifanctly and other big changes were made.
David 05-31-2019, 08:55 AM I can't help but wonder if it was a punitive decrease to punish OU for the incorrect reporting.
LocoAko 05-31-2019, 09:00 AM I can't help but wonder if it was a punitive decrease to punish OU for the incorrect reporting.
Haven't they decided to list OU as "unranked" this year as punishment for the reporting? Doubt they'd take a small step and then a major one like that.
Rover 05-31-2019, 12:38 PM Haven't they decided to list OU as "unranked" this year as punishment for the reporting? Doubt they'd take a small step and then a major one like that.
I think the first step was an adjustment based on criteria when the reporting was corrected, and the second was punitive.
I also think anyone would be hard pressed to find a real correlation to % of alumni giving and real quality of education. Dollars are dollars, and how many and how they are spent is way more important than gross number of donors.
dankrutka 06-01-2019, 12:21 AM That's not true. They went from being ranked #98 in 2017 to in the 120's in 2018. So it obviously dropped them quite a bit.
That's really not a big drop at all. Tons of schools tie. Oh, and I always point out, the rankings are trash.
Midtowner 06-02-2019, 12:21 PM That's really not a big drop at all. Tons of schools tie. Oh, and I always point out, the rankings are trash.
The rankings are in no way indicative of the quality of education. For many degree programs, you’re better off at a directional school than a flagship university.l
Lafferty Daniel 06-02-2019, 05:43 PM That's really not a big drop at all. Tons of schools tie. Oh, and I always point out, the rankings are trash.
I agree the rankings are trash. Unless you’re going to an Ivy League or somewhere like Stanford, the quality of education you receive from basically anywhere is relatively the same. That said, dropping 30 spots in one year is a lot.
Lafferty Daniel 06-02-2019, 05:43 PM The alumni giving rates comprise 5% of the total score.
We have no way of knowing what else may have affected the ranking, especially since during that same year total alumni contributions were down signifanctly and other big changes were made.
I don’t doubt that alumni donations were down but who knows just how much since the numbers Boren was reporting were inflated.
I don’t doubt that alumni donations were down but who knows just how much since the numbers Boren was reporting were inflated.
The only accusation was that the percentage of alums giving to the school was inflated, not the amounts.
Lafferty Daniel 06-03-2019, 02:04 PM The only accusation was that the percentage of alums giving to the school was inflated, not the amounts.
That is true. My mistake.
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