I place responsibility for this condition at the hands of the mayor, the council person, the Chief of Police and any other official who has influence with the ABLE Commission. They need to seek the help of that agency in enforcing the provisions of ABC 2 requirements.

I actually like Fassler for their food and beer selection, but hardly ever go because of the clientele that is often found there. Which is a shame, I love the location and everything but cannot stand rubbing elbows with that kind of crowd.

I place responsibility for this condition at the hands of the mayor, the council person, the Chief of Police and any other official who has influence with the ABLE Commission. They need to seek the help of that agency in enforcing the provisions of ABC 2 requirements.

If they haven't been enforced by now, I doubt they'll start anytime soon. How often *is* that enforced, seems like not much, if ever?

I'll take "Things that happen everywhere, not exclusively in OKC" for $500. This happens everywhere, unfortunately. From states with no carry laws to states with open carry. It is sad that these keep occurring. But, shotgunning blame around does nothing. Call, email, text, etc. those you feel are responsible, and let them know your thoughts. But blaming them on a message board with no follow up does nothing.

I do not love Sunset Patio Bar, at all. The clientele they are trying to attract with their promoters are not the kind I would want to be around. Hopefully some of this gets rectified by people calling their council person, mayor, police department, Etc.

I actually like Fassler for their food and beer selection, but hardly ever go because of the clientele that is often found there. Which is a shame, I love the location and everything but cannot stand rubbing elbows with that kind of crowd.

Just curious, what type of crowd is that?

Fassler has armed security already. They can't do anything about the stuff going on outside.

Collective also had a shooting outside a year or so ago.

This kind of stuff just comes with a bar district + lots of people on a weekend night. Look what Austin does on 6th street, they close entire blocks to vehicles and have a massive, controversial police presence - yet there is still fights and shootings.

There needs to be a paid police presence in the area on weekend nights, and it should be paid for by the clubs that are drawing the shooters to the area. These shootings are usually outside of the venues, but just because they happen outside does not exonerate the venues at all.

If they care about the city and want to continue operating without harassment, they should be proactive and get real security outside the venues, on the streets. It can be done.

In this case, if Sunset had simply had the people fighting arrested, there would have been no shooting. The fight started inside Sunset, the people were thrown out, and then the shooting ensued.

Sunset is not blameless here at all.

Oklahoma is a permitless open carry state. How is a private business at fault in this situation? And how is a police presence a deterrent to an active shooter situation?

I place responsibility for this condition at the hands of the mayor, the council person, the Chief of Police and any other official who has influence with the ABLE Commission. They need to seek the help of that agency in enforcing the provisions of ABC 2 requirements.

He has been a decent cheerleader for what remains a city manager run city, but he’s (somewhat wisely) shown little interest in touching tough / political issues. I would think he steers well clear of this one.

Just curious, what type of crowd is that?

The type that like to fire guns in or outside bars. Kongs has had multiple gun incidents in and outside their space over the last couple years. But nice try at getting at something else with your question though.


Oklahoma is a permitless open carry state. How is a private business at fault in this situation? And how is a police presence a deterrent to an active shooter situation?
Seriously? You dont think more of a police present in the immediate vicinity might give a would be murder second thought on firing a gun in a parking lot? I doubt if the people or groups who got kicked out of Sunset saw a few cops around that intersection that they would still decide to empty a clip just a couple hundred feet away a few moments later.

Seriously? You dont think more of a police present in the immediate vicinity might give a would be murder second thought on firing a gun in a parking lot? I doubt if the people or groups who got kicked out of Sunset saw a few cops around that intersection that they would still decide to empty a clip just a couple hundred feet away a few moments later.

Exactly. I find comments like the one you are responding to frustrating beyond measure.

I've lived in big cities like NYC that manage far more difficult crowd-control situations. It was NYE for crying out loud. It's an area that is known to be problematic. More cops patrolling the area in addition to the clubs taking more responsibility for their patrons could and would make a difference.

I have mentioned it before on this forum a couple years ago, that OKC should think about closing 10th from the roundabout to collective to all vehicles except streetcar. Then you can have a police presence along that stretch and the pedestrians won't have to clog the tiny sidewalks.

Doing this on summer weekends nights and winter holidays seems appropriate.

^i'm sure that the admin staff at saint anthony hospital will be cool with that. : )

I have mentioned it before on this forum a couple years ago, that OKC should think about closing 10th from the roundabout to collective to all vehicles except streetcar. Then you can have a police presence along that stretch and the pedestrians won't have to clog the tiny sidewalks.

Doing this on summer weekends nights and winter holidays seems appropriate.

That's a very interesting idea. It would make an especially nice pedestrian corridor once the new mixed use development across from Fassler comes online.

^i'm sure that the admin staff at saint anthony hospital will be cool with that. : )

considering the 10th street exit of of 235 was one of the things they demanded to stay in midtown i bet they would not be a fan of this idea

considering the 10th street exit of of 235 was one of the things they demanded to stay in midtown i bet they would not be a fan of this idea
exactly.

There are quite a few places around the city on an ABC-2 that no way do they hit 51% food sales. If you go after the bad ones, you'll have to go after the good ones too :-/

There are quite a few places around the city on an ABC-2 that no way do they hit 51% food sales. If you go after the bad ones, you'll have to go after the good ones too :-/

Ever single place in the Plaza is ABC-2.

There are quite a few places around the city on an ABC-2 that no way do they hit 51% food sales. If you go after the bad ones, you'll have to go after the good ones too :-/

And...? They will just have to be correct

There are quite a few places around the city on an ABC-2 that no way do they hit 51% food sales. If you go after the bad ones, you'll have to go after the good ones too :-/

i don't think people really understand the amount of places this really would effect.

i don't think people really understand the amount of places this really would effect.

Then change the rules.

Then change the rules.

Exactly. Why should compliant establishments be at a disadvantage. To not be in compliance because we make less profit is a b.s. line of rationalization. These non compliance establishments are also able to avoid paying what is rightfully owed to the tax commission through non compliance. There are no excuses

It's pretty simple: force the non-compliant businesses to apply for the proper liquor license.

In the case of most, that wouldn't present a problem. In the case of Sunset or Kong's, they probably would not be able to get a pure liquor license due to all the related problems.

Worse case, they would actually have to start operating as a restaurant which they purported to be in their initial application; meaning they could only generate 49% of their sales from alcohol. That would put a stop to these full-blown clubs in a hurry.

^ And that is why it will take the influence that local leaders yield with the ABLE Commission to accomplish this. Letters and phone calls accomplish nada.

Exactly. Why should compliant establishments be at a disadvantage. To not be in compliance because we make less profit is a b.s. line of rationalization. These non compliance establishments are also able to avoid paying what is rightfully owed to the tax commission through non compliance. There are no excuses
I would take it a step further than that and investigate if they knowingly lied in their initial application.

a ton of places that operate as restaurants currently (that everyone on here sees as restaurants first ) don't meet the 51% rule ...

I would hate to see the city's entire nightclub and bar scene destroyed due to the irresponsible actions of a handful of players. We know who the people are and we know the establishments they run. It's literally a handful of problem children.

a ton of places that operate as restaurants currently (that everyone on here sees as restaurants first ) don't meet the 51% rule ...

Which raises the very real possibility that many places are under-reporting their alcohol sales to be compliant, which would also mean millions in underpayment of taxes.

Which raises the very real possibility that many places are under-reporting their alcohol sales to be compliant, which would also mean millions in underpayment of taxes.

i have been told that able nor the city do any audits on this .. i would not think that the corporate places are commiting fraud

I would hate to see the city's entire nightclub and bar scene destroyed due to the irresponsible actions of a handful of players. We know who the people are and we know the establishments they run. It's literally a handful of problem children.

False choice when a proper ABC 3 permit is available to be in compliance.

i have been told that able nor the city do any audits on this .. i would not think that the corporate places are commiting fraud

It's not a matter of audits.

Restaurants and bars are required to send in monthly sales reports that show revenue for food and drink.


The idea that laws shouldn't be enforced is ridiculous. Laws and regulations are the foundation for a community of any type. As a society, we don't get to pick and choose the laws we want to obey.

By not enforcing ABC-2 laws it allows operators to apply as a restaurant but operate as a club. There are very good reasons there is separation in these types of businesses because they are not at all the same thing, which is exactly why things were structured this way in the first place. You don't have shootings and stabbings at restaurants.

Most of us would be happy to have a true restaurant as a neighbor. Very, very few would want a full-blown club with thousands of people and drunken mayhem near our place of business or home.

You don't have shootings and stabbings at restaurants.
Well, we didn’t used to.

It's not a matter of audits.

Restaurants and bars are required to send in monthly sales reports that show revenue for food and drink.
.

who do they send those to?

and all i am saying is you can't have selective enforcement .. which my guess is why the city is not very interested ..

Reports are sent to the OK Tax Commission.

I don't see anyone arguing for selective enforcement.

And as with anything, you start with the most flagrant offenders.

Remember, though, that ABC-3s require variances and/or special approvals if the establishment is within something like 5 blocks of a Church or School. Places in Plaza, Paseo, and many parts of downtown would have some trouble because of that - it's an ordinance that really has no place in an urban environment.

I definitely support updating the red tape required, don't get me wrong, but at this particular time, I'd rather we not harm the quality establishments just because we believe it will fix the problem with these few sour apples. I liked the Austin 6th Street mention above because it helps highlight that some of this is just a big city problem. I'm sure Kongz and Sunset exacerbate, but I tend to doubt it will go away from downtown completely.

Reports are sent to the OK Tax Commission.

I don't see anyone arguing for selective enforcement.

And as with anything, you start with the most flagrant offenders.

right the tax commission which is not the City of OKC or Able ..

Remember, though, that ABC-3s require variances and/or special approvals to if the establishment is within something like 5 blocks of a Church or School. Places on Plaza, Paseo, and many parts.of downtown would have some trouble because of that - it's an ordinance that really had no place I. An urban environment.

I definitely support updating the red tape required, don't get me wrong, but at this particular time, I'd rather we not harm the quality establishments just because we believe it will fix the problem with these few sour apples. I liked the Austin 6th Street mention above because it helps highlight that some of this is just a big city problem. I'm sure Kongz and Sunset exacerbate, but I tend to doubt it will go away from downtown completely.

very much this

Remember, though, that ABC-3s require variances and/or special approvals to if the establishment is within something like 5 blocks of a Church or School. Places on Plaza, Paseo, and many parts.of downtown would have some trouble because of that - it's an ordinance that really had no place I. An urban environment.

I definitely support updating the red tape required, don't get me wrong, but at this particular time, I'd rather we not harm the quality establishments just because we believe it will fix the problem with these few sour apples. I liked the Austin 6th Street mention above because it helps highlight that some of this is just a big city problem. I'm sure Kongz and Sunset exacerbate, but I tend to doubt it will go away from downtown completely.

This is a better way of saying what I said poorly.

Good luck changing liquor laws in this state, too. Only Wal-Mart can pull that off. I would hate to see our urban nightlife decimated due to two or three bad owners in the entire city.

This is a better way of saying what I said poorly.

Good luck changing liquor laws in this state, too. Only Wal-Mart can pull that off. I would hate to see our urban nightlife decimated due to two or three bad owners in the entire city.

Liquor laws have been changed drastically in the fairly recent past. When I was young, my father had to go to a bootlegger to buy any kind of liquor. It can happen.

Liquor laws have been changed drastically in the fairly recent past. When I was young, my father had to go to a bootlegger to buy any kind of liquor. It can happen.

I know they have, because Wal-Mart and other big hitters wanted them changed. That's literally the only reason they changed here. Those same big players don't care about alterations to ABC-2 licenses because they have no profit interest in that.

I know they have, because Wal-Mart and other big hitters wanted them changed. That's literally the only reason they changed here. Those same big players don't care about alterations to ABC-2 licenses because they have no profit interest in that.

Walmart didn't even exist in any significance when Oklahoma started major reformations in their liqour laws.

This is a better way of saying what I said poorly.

Good luck changing liquor laws in this state, too. Only Wal-Mart can pull that off. I would hate to see our urban nightlife decimated due to two or three bad owners in the entire city.

LOL Are you serious? There plenty of valid complaints about this state but this comment is pretty hilarious coming a little over five years after a massive liquor law overhaul that was widely supported both at the capital and by the public.

LOL Are you serious? There plenty of valid complaints about this state but this comment is pretty hilarious coming a little over five years after a massive liquor law overhaul that was widely supported both at the capital and by the public.

His second sentence qualifies that Walmart was a huge force behind it and if they wouldn't have wanted the laws changed, they would not have been. No idea how accurate this is, but seems fairly so on the face of it.

His second sentence qualifies that Walmart was a huge force behind it and if they wouldn't have wanted the laws changed, they would not have been. No idea how accurate this is, but seems fairly so on the face of it.

Wasn't it the people of this state who voted for changes? Walmart doesn't have that much influence over people. Maybe as lobbyists, if the state was the one making these changes. But I think it was more the people who showed what they wanted by voting for changes to laws in this state.

Also, what does any of this have to do with a bar not accurately reporting alcohol versus food sales?

Wasn't it the people of this state who voted for changes? Walmart doesn't have that much influence over people. Maybe as lobbyists, if the state was the one making these changes. But I think it was more the people who showed what they wanted by voting for changes to laws in this state.

Also, what does any of this have to do with a bar not accurately reporting alcohol versus food sales?

Yes, the people voted for it, but I believe there was an immense amount of work BTS before it got there, which is where Walmart may have come into play.

And the relevance is that if bars won't tell the truth when they apply for a liquor license and we can't enforce the current laws, we should change the system (like we did with the changes a few years ago) so that there's not selective non-enforcement and everybody pays their fair share of taxes.

LOL Are you serious? There plenty of valid complaints about this state but this comment is pretty hilarious coming a little over five years after a massive liquor law overhaul that was widely supported both at the capital and by the public.

Do you know how long it took to tee that up? Do you know the amount of money spent behind the scenes to get that to the point we voted on it?

This isn't a cage match. Slow down and read the entire post, and perhaps talk to someone who works at the Capitol or as a lobbyist, before jumping on my post.

It took 60-plus years of work behind the scenes to get to a point where I could buy wine and full-strength beer at a grocery. Perhaps it's your youth and total lack of perspective, but getting the state to revise ABLE classifications seems like a total non-starter, as there would be scant institutional support.

For all the trouble Sunset has caused in Midtown, I had forgotten that the guy that owns that building and fronted a lot of the build-out for the bar is Billy Woodring, the same person that is leading the group that built the Villa Teresa townhomes and is in the process of renovating the rest of that property into a boutique hotel.

Woodring was out front when Sunset was going for rezoning and at the time it was called Fan Club and was going to be a sports bar.

Sports bar.... In the interest of being completely fair and impartial to this establishment in regard to recent events: shooting is a recognized sport in many places.

Rumblings the landlord may evict Sunset in the near future.

If it happens, it will be in the next few months.

Rumblings the landlord may evict Sunset in the near future.

If it happens, it will be in the next few months.

:congrats:

Hopefully, the landlords and other owners in the area are stepping up to the plate to rid the area of a few of these troublesome spots and take back control again. Midtown always had a professional-after hours type vibe to me, not cheap beer and hot wings with a side of knuckle sandwich at a moment's notice. Not that I dislike cheap beer and hot wings...

Hopefully, the landlords and other owners in the area are stepping up to the plate to rid the area of a few of these troublesome spots and take back control again. Midtown always had a professional-after hours type vibe to me, not cheap beer and hot wings with a side of knuckle sandwich at a moment's notice. Not that I dislike cheap beer and hot wings...

Sunset, Kongs, and Fassler absolutely kill the vibe in Midtown more often than not. The operators need to seriously get their **** together. The McNellie's group really has disappointed me with the OKC Fassler, it is a completely different bar than the one in Tulsa. Sunset and Kong's are both ****holes with dog**** operators.

Sunset, Kongs, and Fassler absolutely kill the vibe in Midtown more often than not. The operators need to seriously get their **** together. The McNellie's group really has disappointed me with the OKC Fassler, it is a completely different bar than the one in Tulsa. Sunset and Kong's are both ****holes with dog**** operators.

100% agree! It really seems like the owners/operators cater to a trashy crowd. Reminds me of the Rogers Concepts guy - - wish they would take these crap concepts somewhere else

I think Fassler just suffers from the big crowds being drawn by Kong's and Sunset.

It's formed kind of a dark triangle all right there together.

Sunset Patio brings a different crowd to Midtown that is needed for diversity. Okay there have been a couple shootings, no different than Bricktown. Everything can't be drinking latte's and reading books.

Sunset Patio brings a different crowd to Midtown that is needed for diversity. Okay there have been a couple shootings, no different than Bricktown. Everything can't be drinking latte's and reading books.

Not sure what you mean by diversity, but if "a couple of shootings" is the price for diversity, I certainly wouldn't sign up for it in my back yard.

I think Fassler just suffers from the big crowds being drawn by Kong's and Sunset.

It's formed kind of a dark triangle all right there together.

Fassler is not at all blameless. They've had problems since they opened. At one point, they had to be shamed into cleaning up after the volumes of trash left strewn all over Midtown. It was fratty and also trashy from day one. Even in the months after opening, I witnessed fights there. I haven't spent much time in the Tulsa location, but even the McNellie's in OKC is rougher than the one in Tulsa.

I'm not advocating for some snooty yuppie bar, just responsible operators.

JFC half of you people in this thread better stay away from big cities lol

Many of the people commenting here have or currently do live in big cities. That is irrelevant to the point of wanting to protect the safety and vibe of a district, by not wanting shady businesses attracting shady people. Every city has areas with rowdy clubs, every district does not need to be that for OKC to be cool.

Lol okay sure. I’m hearing the faint sounds of Edmondnites telling people why they won’t go to Bricktown anymore.

Lol okay sure. I’m hearing the faint sounds of Edmondnites telling people why they won’t go to Bricktown anymore.

LOL whatevs bro. I'm not scared to go to Sunset or any of these places. I lived in NYC during the most violent year in the history of that city.

No edmondite at all. Sunset is a freaking drag though.