I wish I could find old threads from pre-Chesapeake days to hear the naysayers discuss the stupidity in building an arena without an NBA/NHL team lined out.

I remember driving down the old I-40 with my college roommate and driving by the "Ford Center" being completed. He went off about how big of a waste of money it was, OKC will never have a pro sports team, we might get bull riding a few concerts a year, but then it will just be used for high school basketball and maybe first round of the tourney. To this day, he denies ever saying it, but I remember.

Do we have a general idea where this is supposed to go yet?

Do we have a general idea where this is supposed to go yet?

No.

The MAPS4 committees are just getting started and I'm sure at the very least there will be a prioritization because the sales tax revenue is way down.

I'm sure they'll choose which projects come first (you can bet on the State Fair arena) and then move to extend this MAPS past the original expiration date, which would require a vote.

A vote from the people or the committee?

A vote from the people or the committee?

To extend MAPS, it would have to be a public vote.

As much as I would like a stadium, I am afraid the embarrassing result le of the Energy doesn’t help to put that on top of the priority list.

Should it be a south side location?

It feels like Producers Coop or Strawberry Hill is inevitable for this stadium site. If there was a good location south of the river that's what I'd like to see, but I've looked over Google Maps probably a dozen times and haven't found anything.

No.

The MAPS4 committees are just getting started and I'm sure at the very least there will be a prioritization because the sales tax revenue is way down.

I'm sure they'll choose which projects come first (you can bet on the State Fair arena) and then move to extend this MAPS past the original expiration date, which would require a vote.

I thought they were pretty confident that by the time the 10 years is up sales tax revenues will have hit projections.

I thought they were pretty confident that by the time the 10 years is up sales tax revenues will have hit projections.

I just know this year -- the first -- is way below. They'll have to make it up down the road and then make a decision if they don't.

Also, MAPS is pay-as-you-collect. Since sales tax is down, it will at least slow up some projects.

I've yet to see a prioritization plan.

Should it be a south side location?

The consultants hired by the city have determined that everything should be close together which as far is the city is concerned means north of the river. After decades of Maps, it is very clear that the area south of the river has been redlined for any significant Maps investments.

The consultants hired by the city have determined that everything should be close together which as far is the city is concerned means north of the river. After decades of Maps, it is very clear that the area south of the river has been redlined for any significant Maps investments.
I don’t understand your point. If you say the southside has been ignored by MAPS, then the northside can say the same thing. The majority of the large MAPS developments have been in the CBD. Downtown is downtown. It isn’t northside, and it isn’t southside.

The “north side” extends so much farther to the north and west than the “Southside” does to the south that it can be argued a higher percentage of Southside residents live closer to the improvements in the CBD than their north side counterparts.

This is a presentation to the MAPS4 board. The stadium advocacy group is saying the facility needs to be downtown and near other entertainment. I suspect they are going to push hard for the Producers Coop site.

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Is "Option One" the one being built?

Hopefully option two is chosen but I’m pretty concerned about the surface parking for 2,700+ cars. Knowing OKC I feel like we’ll get some “down the road proposal” for a mixed use urban village with structured parking but in the mean time(10 + years) a massive parking lot surrounding this thing given how much land is available in the COOP site. I hope I’m wrong.

Acting like there is a possibility of getting a MLS team with a 10k seat stadium is laughable.

Acting like there is a possibility of getting a MLS team with a 10k seat stadium is laughable.

That is why they are showing an expanded stadium in the last slide.

That is why they are showing an expanded stadium in the last slide.

without the price tag. It will cost at least 240 million to build that.

Also why did they limit "potential uses" to that list.
They should have included
-easter egg hunts
- grass growing contests
- tractor pulls
- demolition derbys
- large games of "tag"
-tug of war contests

Clearly the marketing wasn't thinking big picture.

MAPS 4 Stadium considering 3 sites (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=724-MAPS4-Stadium-considering-3-sites)

As part of the on-going process of refining and prioritizing the many projects slated for MAPS 4, Bob Funk Jr. of the OKC Energy soccer club delivered a presentation this week to the MAPS Board.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium030221x.jpg


Funk presented two desired stadium options, each expandable if Oklahoma City was in a position to pursue a top-tier Major League Soccer franchise in the future.

Funk also mentioned that land costs have yet to be determined while they have looked at 3 possible locations:


Farmers Market. Land west of Classen and just north of I-40.
Wheeler Park. Currently owned by the city.
Producers Coop. Just south of Bricktown.

The desire is to have the stadium near the entertainment and attractions of downtown.

No final decisions have been made on any of the MAPS 4 projects as advocates continue to make presentations to the board.


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wheeler clearly will have the least cost for land .... i would bet that is where this ends up

wheeler clearly will have the least cost for land .... i would bet that is where this ends up

Funk said that there is a moratorium on alcohol sales due to a covenant on the land when the Wheeler family donated it to the city.

So, that's a bit of a snag.


Considering they are planning to spend way more than budgeted through MAPS 4 excluding the cost of land and parking, I'm sure they are going to lobby very hard for that site. Would be very controversial to take a city-owned park in that way.

I think it would be surprising to replace a public park with fields by the stadium while there is so much land to use.
We are talking about Wheeler park not district.

I think the Coop site is the most exciting and it is time to put something in this empty land.

it will be cool to have our three main stadium in downtown, in a walkable area and close to each other.

Remember that the Energy had the Coop site under contract but it fell out because they couldn't make the numbers work.

Funk said that the land is still crazy expensive.

You can bet they will be angling for more public subsidies (like TIF) in addition to all the MAPS money.

Remember that the Energy had the Coop site under contract but it fell out because they couldn't make the numbers work.

Funk said that the land is still crazy expensive.

You can bet they will be angling for more public subsidies (like TIF) in addition to all the MAPS money.

It is really annoying that prime real estate downtown would rather have no development than development. To the current owners vacant land is a better investment than a stadium.

This really needs to go downtown with all the shops and stuff like that in the original proposal. Then add the aquarium! Hey why not dream big!!

Remember that the Energy had the Coop site under contract but it fell out because they couldn't make the numbers work.

Funk said that the land is still crazy expensive.

You can bet they will be angling for more public subsidies (like TIF) in addition to all the MAPS money.

Here is a good example of how TIF money artificially skews land prices. Why would co-op drop their price when they see TIF money potentially helping make that asking price.

But co-op is definitely the best location and chance for it to make the biggest impact.

^

If not the Coop, then I'd love to see it in the Farmer's Market area.

There is so much potential there and already several bars and restaurants that could use a boost.

I personally would be upset if they took away Wheeler Park.

It is really annoying that prime real estate downtown would rather have no development than development. To the current owners vacant land is a better investment than a stadium.

I think that tells you all you need to know about the stadium as an investment

I think that tells you all you need to know about the stadium as an investment

If that's what the current owners are thinking. While part of me would like to see it in the CoOp land, a bigger part would like it in the Farmers Market District. You got a big plot of land that's unused, and a lot of buildings in the area that are just waiting to be repurposed. Really, that repurposing could extend all the way up to the boulevard. It could possibly turn into another entertainment district for the city. Not to mention, cars going down I-40 could get a pretty good view of the stadium.

It is really annoying that prime real estate downtown would rather have no development than development. To the current owners vacant land is a better investment than a stadium.

vacant land is better than selling at below market price

It is really annoying that prime real estate downtown would rather have no development than development. To the current owners vacant land is a better investment than a stadium.

Serious land holders look for substantial long term appreciation. They certainly aren't in the charitable business. And, we make it cheap to keep undeveloped land... low property taxes especially. If we had surcharges for long term undeveloped land it might make a difference. Or, if we changed from a sales tax based revenue model to a property tax model that cost them more.

I would hope it ends up at the CoOp site. I love going to St Louis, staying in a downtown hotel and being in easy walking distance to Cardinals games, Blues games, all the downtown restaurants and Union Station. Great area!

Energy FC shared Pete's OKCTalk facebook post and they are asking their fans what site they should build on (Wheeler, CO OP or Farmers MKT) By far the consensus is the CO OP site.

Every time I've been over by the Farmer's Market area I think to myself, "this area has tons of potential." I think the stadium could help kickstart some things there. Co-Op is good too.

vacant land is better than selling at below market price

The market is what someone is willing to pay for it. Just because I put my car on the craigslist for 200,000 it doesn't mean that the market for my car is 200,000.

Shout out to KFOR for citing OKCTalk. Not sure why it’s so hard for the Oklahoman to do that.


According to OKCTalk.com, Bob Funk, Jr. of the OKC Energy soccer club, delivered a presentation to the MAPS board to discuss placement of the new multipurpose stadium.

https://kfor.com/news/local/city-leaders-considering-locations-for-maps-4-multipurpose-stadium/

Farmers Market would also be neat because it's within walking distance of several good breweries. Wheeler Park is easily the worst option IMO, the land there is already being put to good use, not to mention a massive highway separates that area from Downtown, and it just doesn't feel like a part of the core as a result.

Shout out to KFOR for citing OKCTalk. Not sure why it’s so hard for the Oklahoman to do that.



https://kfor.com/news/local/city-leaders-considering-locations-for-maps-4-multipurpose-stadium/

AND they asked my permission before using my images and information.

Every time I've been over by the Farmer's Market area I think to myself, "this area has tons of potential." I think the stadium could help kickstart some things there. Co-Op is good too.

I'm on this bandwagon as well, though I'm sure the biggest gripe people have about this site will be parking. So Coop will end up being a stadium the middle of a sea of parking and will never get the mixed use we hope for. Whereas farmer's market is already mixed use and you'd see the immediate desire to improve the streetscape and general infrastructure, with coop still available for our mixed use dreams.

vacant land is better than selling at below market price

The crazy price tag we've seen on co-op, so far, is clearly above market. No one is paying that, unless the city helps throw some TIF money at it. Which goes back to my previous post of how TIF money artificially and wrongly skews the market, inflates land prices.

I'm on this bandwagon as well, though I'm sure the biggest gripe people have about this site will be parking. So Coop will end up being a stadium the middle of a sea of parking and will never get the mixed use we hope for. Whereas farmer's market is already mixed use and you'd see the immediate desire to improve the streetscape and general infrastructure, with coop still available for our mixed use dreams.

But what we should keep in consideration is that putting the stadium in Producers Coop would keep things more in line with the other key venues in the city. You have the Bricktown Ballpark to the north of it, Chesapeake Energy Arena* and the Convention Center to the west, plus it would bring more mixed development to that area instead of leaving a barren field where a few small outlets spring up every so often. It would really start to kick off that entertainment district that they've been keeping on the back burner.

Doing it this way would greatly push the city to being more pedestrian friendly and further drive the selling point that OKC has a viable sports market. Tourism would greatly increase because of the layout. It'll look ugly at first when developments are being confirmed and ground being broken, but we have to look at the long haul. Keeping the stadium pinned to that quadrant of Oklahoma Boulevard can incentivize tremendous commercial interest.

Whoever owns this land for the COOP site will soon realized that it is overpriced; unless they are willing to parcel it out in 1 - 3 acres at a time. You wouldn't want to spend $30 million for raw land just to build a soccer stadium in which your budget is $37 million to $42 million.

Just don't see anything occupying the COOP site at the time. My preference: The Wheeler District or the land west of Classen and just north of I-40 (Farmers Market) would be more feasible.

Parking will be a concern unless you provide a bus shuttle system on game days.

The crazy price tag we've seen on co-op, so far, is clearly above market. No one is paying that, unless the city helps throw some TIF money at it. Which goes back to my previous post of how TIF money artificially and wrongly skews the market, inflates land prices.

TIF isn't some gift

I have a feeling the city will go after the COOP site first then realize its just not financially possible to do that. Similar to what happened with the Ford site. The owners will just sit on it until some distant point in the future.

Why not down by the Stockyards on that large plot of land behind the FedEx ground building on 15th? It’s right by a potential future rail corridor as well.

Also where in the Farmers Market could this go?

Probably they'll initiate eminent domain and spend bunches of money before realizing what we already knew about the asking price and dropping the case and picking another site....

I have a feeling the city will go after the COOP site first then realize its just not financially possible to do that. Similar to what happened with the Ford site. The owners will just sit on it until some distant point in the future.

Rightfully so, exhaust all options:


Farmers Market. Land west of Classen and just north of I-40.
Wheeler Park. Currently owned by the city.
Producers Coop. Just south of Bricktown.

OKC now has a stadium framework that will allow for future expansion. Available infrastructure, like potential parking should be considered, stadium expansion and road accessibility to and from the stadium need to be apart of the blueprint. Also, considering our weather, lets not rule out a future roof.

Why not down by the Stockyards on that large plot of land behind the FedEx ground building on 15th? It’s right by a potential future rail corridor as well.

Also where in the Farmers Market could this go?

Farmers Market site is the (mostly) vacant lot bounded by Exchange, SW 3rd, Western, and I-40

This shows the possible locations:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium030221m.jpg

I could be satisfied with any of those locations but have the stadium near the Arena and the Ballpark make a nice trio...

I am on board with the other posters advocating for Farmers Market. Not because I think the COOP is a worse location, but because the COOP choice allows cheap parking solution that we all know will last our lifetimes.

I am guessing the apartments planned for that Farmers Market lot is dead?

^

There has been no more movement on the Farmers Market apartments.

Could simply be that they are working both deals until the stadium site is decided.

I am on board with the other posters advocating for Farmers Market. Not because I think the COOP is a worse location, but because the COOP choice allows cheap parking solution that we all know will last our lifetimes.

I am guessing the apartments planned for that Farmers Market lot is dead?

Seems like if there was a commitment to build structured parking on the NW corner of the COOP site, with bottom floor retail, it would serve to provide parking for the Chesapeake, the baseball stadium, and the soccer/all purpose stadium. That would allow the parking east of the current baseball park to be developed in smart mixed-use with lots of residential.

A parking structure abutting the boulevard would exit traffic quickly onto the boulevard and out to the interstates also.

This placement would put the parking structure and the stadium within a couple blocks of the streetcar, as well.

Let's build the stadium at the fairgrounds, plenty of parking and cheap land. We could use it as a horse facility like the new arena. That is apparently what the fair board wants. We could have a big rodeo at the new soccer stadium.

The argument against this has been that there's no restaurants or bars in the immediate vicinity. I don't object, myself, and my preference is still to demo Crossroads Mall and put it there. But I realize that's not an option and we're down to three choices. Farmer's Market remains my choice of those.

I wish the Farmer's Market site was just a couple of acres bigger... IMO that area has some old properties that have character and could be brought back to life really creating a spark in that area. Its location is solid and would give good access to S OKC, Wheeler, Strawberry Fields, and the Classen area. Decent arterials and secondaries that would move traffic.

I think this thing is going to end up at the Producer's site.

Wanting the spark for the area is exactly why I want this there. The Coop area will spark a different kind of development (with the right spark), which we also need, but I don't think a stadium (wrong spark) is the way to go about it because parking is the thing it will spark right away and we'll be dealing with that for YEARS. FM benefits far more near term than Coop does.

Wanting the spark for the area is exactly why I want this there. The Coop area will spark a different kind of development (with the right spark), which we also need, but I don't think a stadium (wrong spark) is the way to go about it because parking is the thing it will spark right away and we'll be dealing with that for YEARS. FM benefits far more near term than Coop does.

I disagree with this a bit. Being next to all the Bricktown bars and restaurants is what will draw people in and make the game day experience that much better. Game day parking can get absorbed into all the bricktown parking that is already in place, similar to thunder games.

I would absolutely love it if only a stadium was built with no additional parking. But you know darned well that the stadium folks will demand their own parking.