and one of the most expensive cities in the world, let alone the US.

Like Gopokes stated, I would think the Warriors paid a lot for that land. Also, it is going to be equipped with half a million sf of office space and restaurant and retail space.

Not to mention a roof, HVAC, much more significant utilities and waste management infrastructure, the list goes on and on....... I'm far from an engineer or architect, but I have to imagine the two aren't really comparable other than the fact that sports will be played in both.

Like Gopokes stated, I would think the Warriors paid a lot for that land. Also, it is going to be equipped with half a million sf of office space and restaurant and retail space.
They literally had to fill in part of the bay to make land for it. Kinda a slightly more complicated engineering task.

Ok, the comparrison with SF has been dismissed. What about the 200M price tag for the soccer specific Minny stadium? Is that comparrison not relevant?

It appears that 200 mil. will get you a pretty good 20k seat soccer stadium. If you want to go 40k or higher for potential football like some were talking about then start adding on to that.

They literally had to fill in part of the bay to make land for it. Kinda a slightly more complicated engineering task.

I thought they didn't have to do that at the site they moved to after deciding not to do it on the pier. Most of that neighborhood sits on landfill, but I thought it was already there at the location they settled on. I could be wrong though.

Either way, I doubt it was easy and I'm sure it needed quite a bit of piering.

Ok, the comparrison with SF has been dismissed. What about the 200M price tag for the soccer specific Minny stadium? Is that comparrison not relevant?

I don’t think it’s a bad comparison but it seems like OKC wants to do 10K and expand to 20-30k later if necessary. Call it eventually 200M but 100M for now.

I thought they didn't have to do that at the site they moved to after deciding not to do it on the pier. Most of that neighborhood sits on landfill, but I thought it was already there at the location they settled on. I could be wrong though.

Either way, I doubt it was easy and I'm sure it needed quite a bit of piering.

My mistake you are correct. They moved after opposition.

If we want to drop 200M on something as nice as Allianz field sign me up. Have you guys actually looked at it? It's amazing.

If we want to drop 200M on something as nice as Allianz field sign me up. Have you guys actually looked at it? It's amazing.

Yes Please! That is beautiful.

What do you bet 15 years from now Holt is running from some MAJOR office, he will be speaking about the horrors of the publicly funded stadium game? I ask this because that is what he's doing now with so much he "advocates" for/against. We all know it is wrong, and not good for the country and a majority of it's inhabitants....

What do you bet 15 years from now Holt is running from some MAJOR office, he will be speaking about the horrors of the publicly funded stadium game? I ask this because that is what he's doing now with so much he "advocates" for/against. We all know it is wrong, and not good for the country and a majority of it's inhabitants....

What kind of major office would he be running from? I'm picturing a long shot, down a hallway, the man comes running around a corner, his momentum slamming him into the wall. He almost loses his footing, but a hand on the ground stabilizes him, and he continues running towards the camera, as angry sentient filing cabinets and desktop phones and a copying machine wheel into frame in pursuit.

What do you bet 15 years from now Holt is running from some MAJOR office, he will be speaking about the horrors of the publicly funded stadium game? I ask this because that is what he's doing now with so much he "advocates" for/against. We all know it is wrong, and not good for the country and a majority of it's inhabitants....

we all don't know that ..... and for the record what is mostly wrong with cities funding stadiums is the LONG TERM DEBT something that OKC doesn't have because of MAPS

What kind of major office would he be running from? I'm picturing a long shot, down a hallway, the man comes running around a corner, his momentum slamming him into the wall. He almost loses his footing, but a hand on the ground stabilizes him, and he continues running towards the camera, as angry sentient filing cabinets and desktop phones and a copying machine wheel into frame in pursuit.

ACTUAL CANNIBAL SHIA LABEOUF


https://youtu.be/o0u4M6vppCI

Pro sports teams never "guarantee" that they will come to a city, and certainly not unless the city already has a stadium to fits the league's specifications. There's always a gamble involved with these things.

we all don't know that ..... and for the record what is mostly wrong with cities funding stadiums is the LONG TERM DEBT something that OKC doesn't have because of MAPS

The problem is that most of these stadiums are money losers. How much can a soccer team pay to lease this place? Will that even cover the yearly upkeep costs? How many fans do they average per game? How many games per year will they play in a new stadium? They will be the anchor tenant and will be the major source of income. I know MLS teams can draw petty good and pay a higher lease but we are not talking MLS.

The problem is that most of these stadiums are money losers. How much can a soccer team pay to lease this place? Will that even cover the yearly upkeep costs? How many fans do they average per game? How many games per year will they play in a new stadium? They will be the anchor tenant and will be the major source of income. I know MLS teams can draw petty good and pay a higher lease but we are not talking MLS.

i don't disagree with any of this ... infact i am against 100 mil in maps 4 for a soccer stadium for 20 mil on the other hand on city owned land they could build a fantastic stadium until the time comes that they either are selling out and need more space .. or get an MLS team ..

The problem is that most of these stadiums are money losers. How much can a soccer team pay to lease this place? Will that even cover the yearly upkeep costs? How many fans do they average per game? How many games per year will they play in a new stadium? They will be the anchor tenant and will be the major source of income. I know MLS teams can draw petty good and pay a higher lease but we are not talking MLS.

Something doesn't have to turn a profit to be of value to a community. That's actually much of the point of public ownership of facilities like this - as long as the cost to run and maintain it isn't excessive. But I don't believe a facility like this, situated where it's being proposed, would be a money-loser. I must repeat the point that the cost burden of upkeep wouldn't solely be laid upon the Energy FC. This is designed to host *multiple* sports and events, including Soccer, Rugby, Football, concerts and festivals, etc, etc.

Average Energy FC attendance (according to google) was approx. 4,300 per game
Highest home attendance 6,757
Lowest home attendance 2,574

Average Energy FC attendance (according to google) was approx. 4,300 per game
Highest home attendance 6,757
Lowest home attendance 2,574

Do you have the trending information?

Average Energy FC attendance (according to google) was approx. 4,300 per game
Highest home attendance 6,757
Lowest home attendance 2,574

It's also important to remember that the current facility at Taft is limiting with respect to attendance; there are issues with parking availability and amenities both in the stadium and nearby. A better facility in a better location with more to do nearby would do much to drive higher attendance numbers.

The problem is that most of these stadiums are money losers. How much can a soccer team pay to lease this place? Will that even cover the yearly upkeep costs? How many fans do they average per game? How many games per year will they play in a new stadium? They will be the anchor tenant and will be the major source of income. I know MLS teams can draw petty good and pay a higher lease but we are not talking MLS.

Soccer, high school and possibly UCO football (who has looked at upping their football status), high school football, concerts, track and field, etc. There would be much more than just the pro soccer. One other thing, if built on fairgrounds land along Reno land cost may be minimal cutting costs to a fraction of those billion dollar numbers you were throwing around.

Don't know the accuracy of the figures in the article by Soccer Stadium Digest; however it lists:

"The facility would cost an estimated $65 to $80 million for construction–plus an additional $6 to $12 million for land acquisition–and be built with an initial seating capacity of 10,000."

Soccer Stadium Digest (full article): https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019/03/new-okc-energy-stadium-plan-unveiled/

Maybe the City plans to acquire this land (Producer's COOP Mill) by eminent domain...

$65 million Louisville stadium construction


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB6wwEr6QNQ

https://i.iheart.com/v3/re/new_assets/5bfda08700bbe9be97dcb051?ops=max(650,0),quality(80 )

Stadium construction begins for Louisville City FC http://www.wave3.com/2018/11/27/stadium-construction-begins-louisville-city-fc/

The Louisville City FC stadium will hold 11,300 seats. Initial work will include using large, crane-like drills to create shafts filled with high-strength cement and reinforcing steel. Excavation work also will take place to set the field in place; it will rest 10 feet below the concourse level.

The 11,300-seat stadium is the centerpiece of a planned $200 million mixed-use development adjacent to Waterfront Park.

The problem is that most of these stadiums are money losers. How much can a soccer team pay to lease this place? Will that even cover the yearly upkeep costs? How many fans do they average per game? How many games per year will they play in a new stadium? They will be the anchor tenant and will be the major source of income. I know MLS teams can draw petty good and pay a higher lease but we are not talking MLS.

Prove they're money losers.

You have 0 credibility since polluting the thread hyperventilating about billion dollar costs and then getting slapped down.

Don't know the accuracy of the figures in the article by Soccer Stadium Digest; however it lists:

"The facility would cost an estimated $65 to $80 million for construction–plus an additional $6 to $12 million for land acquisition–and be built with an initial seating capacity of 10,000."

Soccer Stadium Digest (full article): https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019/03/new-okc-energy-stadium-plan-unveiled/

Maybe the City plans to acquire this land (Producer's COOP Mill) by eminent domain...
Anyone here know if the eminent domain “rules” have changed? I recall some talk about invoking that on one of the old Fred Jones Ford blocks as the site of the convention center or hotel that stalled after the Hall brothers and Bob Howard argued for a $10 million or more value? My point being are rulings becoming more favorable to property owners protecting the future “enterprise value” of their land?

Prove they're money losers.

You have 0 credibility since polluting the thread hyperventilating about billion dollar costs and then getting slapped down.

Haha,ok.... Ever heard of google? Tons of evidence that tax payer funded stadiums are a bad deal for the tax payer. All you have to do is look. And yes, there have been billion dollar arenas built lately.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2015/01/31/publicly-financed-sports-stadiums-are-a-game-that-taxpayers-lose/#11d088484f07


https://www.heartland.org/publications-resources/publications/research--commentary-bad-stadium-deals-hurt-cities-large-and-small

fair question. There's a big difference between billion $ figures and $60 million. This type of stadium isn't exactly Jerry World.

fair question. There's a big difference between billion $ figures and $60 million. This type of stadium isn't exactly Jerry World.

Yes we were talking about bigger stadiums and arenas when the billion mark came up. Not what they are planning with maps. If they could build one for 65 mil like the one Laramie linked I don't think that would be a terrible deal. But that also isn't one that could attract a potential XFL team like we were throwing out there.

Double it for XFL, then. Again, talking about cheap land and a stadium that can be improved and expanded, if necessary.

Also let's not forget that there are two collegiate football stadium where an XFL. AAF franchise could be housed temporarily:. Oklahoma Gaylord Memorial Stadium (86,112) or Boon Pickens Stadium (56,790).

There will be other opportunities for use of the MAPS 4 stadium. Just wish we would go full steam ahead with a 25,000 seat stadium; allow the Energy FC to use the lower bowl unless crowds exceed 10k.

https://cdnassets.hw.net/dims4/GG/4fd82c8/2147483647/resize/876x%3E/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdnassets.hw.net%2F08%2Fe2%2Fd0 2636714846a426d145409799db%2F2017-08-31-georgia-state-stadium-5.jpg
Atlanta Legends AAF franchise uses Georgia State Stadium capacity: 24,333; formerly Turner Field--now downsized. Recall it was used for the 1996 Atlanta Olympics opening ceremony with an original 85,000-seat capacity, $209 million; ($334 million dollars in 2018) .

I dont think i would use that Atlanta stadium as an example. It's always been weirdly shaped since it started as a baseball field and then got cut up. I wouldn't want to settle for something like that. Props to them for finding a use for Olympic bloat construction, but you know they only abandoned it because they built a new stadium....again. This was place was built in 95/96 and they already felt they needed to move on???? That's the kind of crap we do not need here.

Yes we were talking about bigger stadiums and arenas when the billion mark came up. Not what they are planning with maps. If they could build one for 65 mil like the one Laramie linked I don't think that would be a terrible deal. But that also isn't one that could attract a potential XFL team like we were throwing out there.

Everyone understands what you're saying. Just like what bombermwc just said above me about Atlanta. Turner Field has so far cost something like $600 million by itself, not even counting for the new Braves Stadium. Or look at Arlington. The new Rangers Stadium is almost done. And that thing is MEGA expensive.

But what I think you aren't understanding, is that all of these stadiums are competing for and with the best of the best. You're talking about MLB, NBA, AND NFL stadiums with the absolute most plus amenities. Whether OKC builds this stadium or something bigger, its not going to have all the crazy add ons and amenities.

I want a big 40k Stadium now, because your point is right on. $250 million now is going to go a lot further than $250 million in a decade. And I'd rather be ready immediately to join the MLS and/or AAF/XFL then to try to hop on the growing bandwagon in another decade. I feel like there's a lot more that could be done with a Stadium that double the size of what has been proposed. That's all. And I get what Funk proposed is upgradeable. And that's awesome. And that's probably whats going to happen. I suppose I just want it all done upfront and immediately. Cost more upfront but save more money in the long run, and it would immediately be more prominent.

Anyone here know if the eminent domain “rules” have changed? I recall some talk about invoking that on one of the old Fred Jones Ford blocks as the site of the convention center or hotel that stalled after the Hall brothers and Bob Howard argued for a $10 million or more value? My point being are rulings becoming more favorable to property owners protecting the future “enterprise value” of their land?

According to the proposal PDF that was published, the $6 to $12 million land acquisition figure is a value that has already been negotiated with the current property owner, so I wouldn't expect the final number to deviate much from that range.

I dont think i would use that Atlanta stadium as an example. It's always been weirdly shaped since it started as a baseball field and then got cut up. I wouldn't want to settle for something like that. Props to them for finding a use for Olympic bloat construction, but you know they only abandoned it because they built a new stadium....again. This was place was built in 95/96 and they already felt they needed to move on???? That's the kind of crap we do not need here.

Just pointing out that we don't necessarily need anything above 25,000 seats to attract AAF or XFL.

Nashville's NFL franchise eventually had to use 41,000-seat Vanderbilt Stadium after Memphis fans saw little interest in helping support its capital city's NFL Houston Oilers' relocation after Memphis lost out to Charlotte, NC & Jacksonville, FL in 1993 NFL expansion.

Just wish we would go ahead build a 25,000-seat stadium; shell out $115 million for a venue capable of expansion if necessary. It'll be a lot less costly to build to MLS standards than to expand later. The 37 acre Producers COOP Mill site will allow for expansion and some onsite parking--along with the canal extension.

Again, if any event where crowds don't exceed 10k then the upper deck won't be needed.

OKC needs to be ready when opportunity presents itself as with the New Orleans Hornets relocation. Louisville thought they would get the Hornets following the devastation by Katrina.

Louisville's Freedom Hall was available; their ABA Kentucky Colonels passed up merger with the NBA . The fact that OKC's brand new downtown arena was available weighed heavy on the NBA's temporary relocation. Also Mayor Mick Cornett had planted seeds to put us on the NBA radar. It eventually provided the trial run that Oklahoma City could support an NBA franchise.

https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=637-Plans-revised-for-proposed-MAPS-4-stadium

Full press release:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium080619a.jpg

OKLAHOMA CITY (Aug. 6, 2019) – A group led by the Oklahoma City Energy FC today revealed new renderings for a multipurpose outdoor stadium at the Aug. 6 City Council meeting for MAPS 4. The proposal would create a permanent home for professional soccer and a centralized venue suitable for hosting high school football and soccer championships. It would also enable Oklahoma City, currently the only city of the top 50 largest cities lacking an outdoor stadium, to finally compete for major outdoor concerts, festivals and sporting events.

“This is an opportunity to once again set our city on a global stage,” said Bob Funk, Jr., co-owner of OKC Energy FC. “It will connect and unify Oklahoma City’s diverse cross-section of cultures and provide a powerful economic boost to our urban core.”

Donna Clark, co-owner of OKC Energy FC and a pioneer in bringing professional soccer to Oklahoma City said, “Soccer is a unifying sport across genders, ethnicities, cultures and religions. I attended the Women’s World Cup final shown at Together Square and it was a deeply impactful experience to sit with more than 700 fellow Oklahomans aside OKC’s newest public futsal court, while watching the U.S. women defend their title. Oklahoma City needs professional soccer deeply rooted within our community.”

The presentation revealed two options to build the venue, each with new amenities and features. The first option represented a $37 million to $42 million investment for an 8,000-seat stadium that would accommodate soccer, high school football, rugby, lacrosse, concerts and festivals. It is estimated it would host more than 60 events each year resulting in an annual $60 million economic impact.

The second option presented was a $67 million to $72 million investment with 10,000 seats, shade structures, and other amenities to improve the fan experience. Additional restrooms would allow for crowds of up to 18,000. This option would include a larger stage sought by national music touring groups, and a secondary stage designed to seat 8,000. It is estimated it would host more than 80 events each year resulting in an annual impact of over $79 million.

“A centrally located multipurpose stadium will be a powerful catalyst for private development,” said developer Chuck Wiggin, who backs the concept. “MAPS projects are city-owned, which will put the City in a position to manage and incentivize nearby development that is consistent with the needs of its residents as well as City planning objectives — dense, mixed-use, affordable, bike-friendly, walkable, and accessible by public transportation. It’s an opportunity to connect and boost nearby districts and attractions and promote connections citywide.”

The plan enjoys strong support from Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association Executive Director David Jackson, Oklahoma City Public Schools Superintendent Sean McDaniel, Santa Fe South Schools Superintendent Chris Brewster and Millwood Schools Superintendent Cecilia Robinson-Woods. At the Council meeting, each emphasized the importance of youth participation in soccer and expressed gratitude for the extensive charitable contributions and programs to expand and improve the quality of youth athletics.

“I’ve witnessed the impact a new athletic facility can have on a community, and how it inspires young athletes and brings neighbors together through a common interest. MAPS 4 is Oklahoma City’s chance to do this on a major scale,” OKC Energy FC co-owner Tim McLaughlin said. McLaughlin founded nonprofit organization Fields and Futures.

Additional backers of the concept include the South Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce, the Oklahoma City Police Athletic League, deadCENTER Film Festival and Okla Cine Latino Film Festival, as well many other Oklahoma City community leaders.

Funk’s portion of the presentation highlighted MAPS 4 as Oklahoma City’s best opportunity to create an environment that empowers connection, inclusivity and community in a way that complements nearby districts accessible citywide. He highlighted the growing appeal of soccer and its accessibility as a sport to watch and play for families from all backgrounds and incomes.

The presentation identified soccer, rugby and lacrosse as the fastest-growing sports in America and pointed to a 2018 Nielsen study in which 51 percent of Oklahoma City’s direct market area are interested in or follow professional soccer.

The presentation also covered missed tourism and sporting event opportunities due to Oklahoma City’s lack of an outdoor venue capable of hosting large scale events, citing Big 12, NCAA, NAIA and junior college soccer, high school football and soccer, college and club lacrosse, international and club rugby, and e-sports events as examples of what would be possible if Oklahoma City included such a facility in the MAPS 4 initiative.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium080619b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium080619c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium080619d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium080619e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium080619f.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium080619g.jpg

I am ok with the stadium, I just wish we had some private guarantees regarding surrounding development. We see all those mid to high-rise buildings, and I love it. But I also know that Bob Funk is not going to build those. I just wonder if us citizens could get a guarantee regarding those before voting on this. But I love the design of the stadium! 10,000, expandable to 18,000, is the right size.

I’m all for an outdoor stadium in MAPS 4. Private development will come with the stadium. Adding this venue will give us events year round and it would also help the Energy’s leap to MLS. I’d love for the stadium to host a college bowl game but it might be too small. Regardless it would be the next major addition to our city

IF we go the route of a stadium I don't want to see us do it half way. building this on the cheap and not include shade structures would be a huge miss.

IF we go the route of a stadium I don't want to see us do it half way. building this on the cheap and not include shade structures would be a huge miss.

I agree. You cannot expect people to sit outside without shade in Oklahoma summers.

Even with evening matches/games, the sun is usually brutal.

I agree. You cannot expect people to sit outside without shade in Oklahoma summers.

Even with evening matches/games, the sun is usually brutal.

That's all I could imagine looking at those amazing renderings. if they go cheap and leave those off what a horrible spot it will be

Is this still planned for the Producers Coop area?

Is this still planned for the Producers Coop area?

That has been left out of all their presentations but that would be the logical site.

definitely need to go with option #2 (with the shade structures), would be a mistake without them.

I’d love for the stadium to host a college bowl game but it might be too small.

Average attendance was in the low 40k's across all bowl games last season, but there are a half dozen or so that had less than 20k.

Of those games, the smallest stadium capacity was about 15k (and it's in the bahamas). The largest was 65K (oops).

That has been left out of all their presentations but that would be the logical site.

Where does Wiggins fit in? He said he plans mixed use development around the soccer arena, but I have no idea how he can say that if he doesn't know where it will be located. Is he the developer who is associated with the COOP?

Where does Wiggins fit in? He said he plans mixed use development around the soccer arena, but I have no idea how he can say that if he doesn't know where it will be located. Is he the developer who is associated with the COOP?

No idea at this point.

The only other place would be the Strawberry Fields area but they have spent a fortune on that land and I can't imagine how a large facility like this would work there

I see those nice midrise buildings around it. I couldn't see myself wanting to live next door to a stadium which hosts LOUD events late into the night. Residents raised a huge kerfuffle over the Lost Lake venue hosting loud concerts. Imagine the impact when those residents have paid $400/sq. ft. for their accommodations.

There have been discussions of consuming the city park south of the river north of Capitol Hill between Robinson and Walker as an alternate location.

There have been discussions of consuming the city park south of the river north of Capitol Hill between Robinson and Walker as an alternate location.

Someone proposing this remembers that OKC extends south of the river? Outstanding!

No idea at this point.

The only other place would be the Strawberry Fields area but they have spent a fortune on that land and I can't imagine how a large facility like this would work there

The prices they are quoting in the article seems lite to me. I assume they are not factoring in the cost of the land and this project will take a large parcel. It will easily top out over 100 mil IMO. I don't see how it could be built on the Co-Op site with the price tag of that land unless they have a bunch of other private investors lined up to construct surrounding projects. So if this is included on MAPS I assume the land purchase will also fall under MAPS?

...

Someone proposing this remembers that OKC extends south of the river? Outstanding!

They think that it could be an ace in the hole on a shoestring budget. It's politically extremely palatable and they wouldn't have land acquisition costs. Plus it could help reinvigorate Capitol Hill overnight.

The prices they are quoting in the article seems lite to me. I assume they are not factoring in the cost of the land and this project will take a large parcel. It will easily top out over 100 mil IMO. I don't see how it could be built on the Co-Op site with the price tag of that land unless they have a bunch of other private investors lined up to construct surrounding projects. So if this is included on MAPS I assume the land purchase will also fall under MAPS?

You can bet that there would still be a healthy subsidy ask (TIF or otherwise) in addition to the MAPS funds.

They think that it could be an ace in the hole on a shoestring budget. It's politically extremely palatable and they wouldn't have land acquisition costs. Plus it could help reinvigorate Capitol Hill overnight.

I would die for this to be in Capitol Hill. I have often thought about moving to the area just south of the river, but the current housing stock is not too great.

They think that it could be an ace in the hole on a shoestring budget. It's politically extremely palatable and they wouldn't have land acquisition costs. Plus it could help reinvigorate Capitol Hill overnight.

It would also make sense to to add some streetcar routes that run south to Capitol Hill area esp. if the stadium is built in that area.

Looked at their budget and there was no mention of land costs and parking was specifically excluded. So, those are 2 huge additional costs.

Also, this was in the council presentation:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium080619h.jpg

They think that it could be an ace in the hole on a shoestring budget. It's politically extremely palatable and they wouldn't have land acquisition costs. Plus it could help reinvigorate Capitol Hill overnight.

If we're seriously sold on creating a #1OKC, this would certainly be a fantastic first step.