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catcherinthewry 04-18-2023, 02:11 PM They are ALL sold. That is my point.
So you are asserting that thousands of fans got to the trouble of buying tickets off of StubHub and the don't attend the game?
Just the facts 04-18-2023, 02:32 PM So you are asserting that thousands of fans got to the trouble of buying tickets off of StubHub and the don't attend the game?
No, those are existing ticket holders that aren't going to that game for whatever reason. 14% of Raiders tickets were bought but never used in 2022.
Jersey Boss 04-18-2023, 02:39 PM So you are asserting that thousands of fans got to the trouble of buying tickets off of StubHub and the don't attend the game?
Tickets are bought by corporations as well as fans. Tickets are also bought by speculators who eat them on occasion.
PoliSciGuy 04-18-2023, 02:39 PM That's Las Vegas, with a very transitory fanbase/reliant on out of towners. Also, it's pretty apropos that you're moving goalposts in a discussion about the NFL
Jersey Boss 04-18-2023, 02:41 PM What is the average attendance at XFL games? From what I have seen on TV, they don't seem to be filling up the seats. I assume that is normal for first year?
Every week attendance and tv ratings are lower.
Hardly a proven entity to tie your maps dollars to.
Dob Hooligan 04-18-2023, 02:45 PM No, those are existing ticket holders that aren't going to that game for whatever reason. 14% of Raiders tickets were bought but never used in 2022.
Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas is reported to have had the highest gross revenue in the world last year.
warreng88 04-18-2023, 02:46 PM XFL attendance is very very hit and miss ..
St louis has had over 35k for every home game ..
several others have 10k + DC last week at 18k
but vegas is only doing 6k
https://xflboard.com/xfl-attendance/
Thanks for that info. I did a google search and it only gave me NFL numbers.
catcherinthewry 04-18-2023, 03:04 PM No, those are existing ticket holders that aren't going to that game for whatever reason. 14% of Raiders tickets were bought but never used in 2022.
You were saying that the fact that there are thousands of tickets listed on StubHub was proof that fans weren't showing up to games. Now you're saying that it is just existing ticket holders that aren't showing up. Make up your mind.
As a Thunder season ticket holder, if I can't go and can't find someone to take my tickets I'm not going to just eat those tickets. I'm going to put them on TicketMaster and sell them, even if it is at less than face value.
gopokes88 04-18-2023, 03:20 PM That's Las Vegas, with a very transitory fanbase/reliant on out of towners. Also, it's pretty apropos that you're moving goalposts in a discussion about the NFL
They also play in a horrible stadium. https://www.sportskeeda.com/american-football/where-vegas-vipers-play-fans-slam-xfl-team-s-home-stadium-literal-dump
MagzOK 04-18-2023, 03:22 PM NFL isn't exactly packing them in either, and an average NASCAR race looks like midweek practice from 15 years ago.
Actually, the NFL is packing them in and it's only going up.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/16/nfl-regular-season-attendance-hit-six-year-high-in-2022/#:~:text=The%20NFL%20saw%20a%20significant,accordi ng%20to%20Sports%20Business%20Journal.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/20/nfl-announces-more-than-50000-tickets-sold-for-neutral-site-afc-title-game/
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2022/7/22/23274101/nfl-could-have-sold-3-million-tickets-regular-season-debut-germany
No, those are existing ticket holders that aren't going to that game for whatever reason.
Those are tickets holders that sell their tickets to other people and then they become the ticket holders and they go to games. If the accumulative StubHub listings was representative of the amount of people that don't go to games, then StubHub is a stoopid business model. lol
14% of Raiders tickets were bought but never used in 2022.
86% attendance for a 6-11 team. I'd say that pretty good for a sub .500 team that finished next to last in their division.
Also, where did you get that? I thought you said "turnstile attendance" isn't released.
Bill Robertson 04-18-2023, 06:20 PM Those are tickets holders that sell their tickets to other people and then they become the ticket holders and they go to games. If the accumulative StubHub listings was representative of the amount of people that don't go to games, then StubHub is a stoopid business model. lol
86% attendance for a 6-11 team. I'd say that pretty good for a sub .500 team that finished next to last in their division.
Also, where did you get that? I thought you said "turnstile attendance" isn't released.
I'm a huge Dolphins fan. There's been a lot of seasons in the past 20 years that 84% actual attendance would have been amazing. But the ticket sales were still pretty good.
The bottom line is ticket sales pay the bills. Attendance is a great visual for the fans. Yeah, an arena or stadium packed with rabid fans means something to the team but theses guys are pros. Playing well before their next contract is probably as motivating as fan attendance is for playing well.
I'm a huge Dolphins fan. There's been a lot of seasons in the past 20 years that 84% actual attendance would have been amazing. But the ticket sales were still pretty good.
And a lot of ticket sales are season ticket and corporate accounts, which are usually the best seats. Many of those accounts hang on to the tickets and renew each year even when the team sucks, because they want access when they're good and want to have first dibs on those good seats. But they'll most likely go to fewer games when they're not playing well.
The economics of sports is different in every league, too. Obviously, ticket sales help in all of them, but media rights, rev share, naming rights, vending, licensing, corporate sponsorships, etc. is where the big bucks can be made. The most recent NFL TV rights deal alone is reported to be worth $113 Billion. If anything, tickets sales cover the cost of operating the games and, in a lot of cases, make some profit, but media rights and licensing are usually the biggest profit centers.
Basically, attendance is usually a reflection of how the team is playing, but not always a good indicator of how a franchise (or league) is doing economically.
For an (oversimplified) example:
Statistica lists the Thunder's gate receipts for 21/22 at $45 million. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/381571/gate-receipts-of-the-oklahoma-city-thunder-national-basketball-association/#:~:text=In%20that%20season%2C%20gate%20receipts,( COVID%2D19)%20pandemic.)
Just the team salary for that year was $82 Million (https://hoopshype.com/salaries/oklahoma_city_thunder/2021-2022/).
According to the same link above, the best year for gate receipts was 18/19 at $63 million.
The team salary was $144 million that year.
Bill Robertson 04-19-2023, 06:32 PM And a lot of ticket sales are season ticket and corporate accounts, which are usually the best seats. Many of those accounts hang on to the tickets and renew each year even when the team sucks, because they want access when they're good and want to have first dibs on those good seats. But they'll most likely go to fewer games when they're not playing well.
The economics of sports is different in every league, too. Obviously, ticket sales help in all of them, but media rights, rev share, naming rights, vending, licensing, corporate sponsorships, etc. is where the big bucks can be made. The most recent NFL TV rights deal alone is reported to be worth $113 Billion. If anything, tickets sales cover the cost of operating the games and, in a lot of cases, make some profit, but media rights and licensing are usually the biggest profit centers.
Basically, attendance is usually a reflection of how the team is playing, but not always a good indicator of how a franchise (or league) is doing economically.I'm not a wordy person but I was saying that Dolphins attendance doesn't mean the team is financially struggling. In a nutshell. Most times I can go into much more detail but I'm a short and to the point kinda guy. Fewest words possible is my way.
I'm not a wordy person but I was saying that Dolphins attendance doesn't mean the team is financially struggling.
For sure. I was just going agreeing with you with a much more wordy response than was probably needed. lol
Laramie 06-04-2023, 01:04 PM MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium has a $41 million funding budget. Bob Funk Jr., was allowed to chose among the 4 choices, he chose the lowest most inexpensive 8,000 seat venue. It doesn't look favorable that USL will ever return to OKC under Funk-McLaughlin ownership.
The stadium IMO will need to be located near FAM or OKANA sites or somewhere favorable to existing parking to make it a more viable venue. The stadium will need to seat 12,000 - 15,000 or more. The more seating configuration options available, the more events like outdoor concerts, large gatherings or XFL/USFL spring football can be attracted.
We need a new USL ownership group to take over where the previous group left off or a spring football franchise (XFL or USFL).
IMO it is going to take time and money to build a fan base for soccer or American spring football. Don't feel the 'Funk group' is up to the task. Let's build something better than a 'bare bones' stadium to usher 2027 for our city.
MAPS 4 construction starts: https://www.okc.gov/government/timeline
ShadowStrings 06-04-2023, 01:31 PM My completely unrealistic dream is still for it to go by lower Scissortail Park in the land surrounded by SW 10th, SW 15th, Walker, and Harvey.
Colbafone 07-18-2023, 08:58 AM Check this out, just to sort of give us a scope of work.
https://talkbusiness.net/2023/07/pro-soccer-5000-seat-stadium-coming-to-northwest-arkansas/#:~:text=The%20United%20Soccer%20League%20%28USL%2 9%20and%20USL%20Arkansas,is%20for%20it%20to%20open %20in%20early%202026.
So that's being built in Rogers. About $15 million and 5k seats.
shavethewhales 07-18-2023, 10:17 AM Yup, that project is a really good benchmark for other cities looking to expand their sports amenities. USL is super stable and growing rapidly in popularity right now. Soccer in the US is out of the weeds it seems. FC Tulsa has been doing pretty well from all outside appearances, and I believe the OKC Energy would be selling out games if they were still active. A capacity of 5000 is pretty small - they'll be expanding that before long hopefully. Tulsa has regularly gotten more than that. 5000 is about average attendance across the USL, with the top clubs getting around 10,000 and the bottom clubs barely getting anyone to come.
caaokc 07-18-2023, 10:23 AM Yup, that project is a really good benchmark for other cities looking to expand their sports amenities. USL is super stable and growing rapidly in popularity right now. Soccer in the US is out of the weeds it seems. FC Tulsa has been doing pretty well from all outside appearances, and I believe the OKC Energy would be selling out games if they were still active. A capacity of 5000 is pretty small - they'll be expanding that before long hopefully. Tulsa has regularly gotten more than that. 5000 is about average attendance across the USL, with the top clubs getting around 10,000 and the bottom clubs barely getting anyone to come.
Would the Energy be selling out now? Attendance was pretty low when they were active
SEMIweather 07-18-2023, 10:33 AM Would the Energy be selling out,m? Attendance was pretty low when they were active
When the Energy actually put some effort into marketing the team, they were consistently getting around 5k at Taft. Realistically, if the Energy gets new ownership that actually cares about the team I think you could maybe achieve 7.5k average attendance in a new stadium with modern amenities, given that the Metro has grown since 2015-16 and the popularity of soccer continues to increase over time.
borchard 07-19-2023, 08:23 AM When the Energy actually put some effort into marketing the team, they were consistently getting around 5k at Taft. Realistically, if the Energy gets new ownership that actually cares about the team I think you could maybe achieve 7.5k average attendance in a new stadium with modern amenities, given that the Metro has grown since 2015-16 and the popularity of soccer continues to increase over time.
Every USL game is available on demand on ESPN+. For the last year or two that the Energy played I would go through almost every home game, fast-forwarding to somewhere in the middle of the 1st half so as to be fair. I'd then stop the video on a goal kick that would show the east stands. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there were times I would actually count less than 100 people in the entire stands. Many times there were 100-200 people there. This led me to believe that many times there were ~ 500-700 people actually at the game, but the stated attendance would be 2-3000. The stated reason that they didn't play LAST year was planned upgrades to Taft that would preclude them from playing. I haven't heard a reason for this year? But I've always wondered why they didn't make an effort to play at Bricktown Ballpark? FC Tulsa plays at the Drillers Stadium. And, IMHO, Bricktown Ballpark would be an amazing venue for several reasons: Parking. Eating, Drinking, Location. Does someone have an actual reason why this hasn't been done? And PLEASE don't say that the Dodgers wouldn't allow it. The Dodgers don't own the stadium. The city does, as far as I know. Anyway, sorry this was so long
Dob Hooligan 07-19-2023, 09:03 AM The Energy can't play at Taft Stadium because the USL decided they would no longer allow non-regulation size fields to be used for USL games. Taft won't remove the track portion of their field in order to allow that to happen.
The Dodgers are the controlling tenant of the stadium. They don't think it is a good use of their time and field. The Tulsa Drillers also own the USL team, IIRC.
I don't think there is really a good market for soccer in OKC. People have been talking and working since the Slickers of the early 1980s. Just never any sustained success.
AnguisHerba 07-19-2023, 09:12 AM The Energy can't play at Taft Stadium because the USL decided they would no longer allow non-regulation size fields to be used for USL games. Taft won't remove the track portion of their field in order to allow that to happen.
The Dodgers are the controlling tenant of the stadium. They don't think it is a good use of their time and field. The Tulsa Drillers also own the USL team, IIRC.
I don't think there is really a good market for soccer in OKC. People have been talking and working since the Slickers of the early 1980s. Just never any sustained success.
It seems like Soccer is in a different moment now in the United States generally. Some stats from @JoePompliano on Twitter:
From 2007 to 2023
- MLS Annual TV increased from $8M to $250M
- MLS Average Attendance Increased from 15,000 to 21,000 (40% increase)
- MLS Average Franchise Value Increased from $37M to $579M.
But first and foremost OKC would need an invested ownership group to actively market and grow the sport, and the Funks are not that (as has already been said many times).
SEMIweather 07-19-2023, 09:17 AM Every USL game is available on demand on ESPN+. For the last year or two that the Energy played I would go through almost every home game, fast-forwarding to somewhere in the middle of the 1st half so as to be fair. I'd then stop the video on a goal kick that would show the east stands. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there were times I would actually count less than 100 people in the entire stands. Many times there were 100-200 people there. This led me to believe that many times there were ~ 500-700 people actually at the game, but the stated attendance would be 2-3000. The stated reason that they didn't play LAST year was planned upgrades to Taft that would preclude them from playing. I haven't heard a reason for this year? But I've always wondered why they didn't make an effort to play at Bricktown Ballpark? FC Tulsa plays at the Drillers Stadium. And, IMHO, Bricktown Ballpark would be an amazing venue for several reasons: Parking. Eating, Drinking, Location. Does someone have an actual reason why this hasn't been done? And PLEASE don't say that the Dodgers wouldn't allow it. The Dodgers don't own the stadium. The city does, as far as I know. Anyway, sorry this was so long
The stated reason for this year is that the USL would no longer give them an exemption to play at Taft due to the pitch dimensions being too narrow. This is reasonable - all USL pitches are supposed to be 70 yards wide, and measuring on Google Maps you can see that the pitch at Taft was approximately 65.7 yards wide. But, your guess is as good as mine (or anyone else's) for why they haven't tried to play somewhere else. They could certainly fit in a pitch at the Bricktown Ballpark - it would be a tight squeeze, but I've measured and it would work. The UCO football stadium would be another option.
shavethewhales 07-19-2023, 09:19 AM Most people sit along the center of the field. The cheap tickets are at the end zone and that's often where the supporters group sits. OKC is a huge market for soccer, there's no denying this. The thing is, you can't just plop down a team and expect it to work. People come out for good teams that are well managed by an owner that understands both the team and the fans. The Energy had a ton of issues that turned off fans. The Tulsa Roughnecks also struggled when they were owned by the Tulsa Drillers ownership group. The team was sold a few years ago and rebranded as FC Tulsa. The new ownership understands soccer far better than the previous group, and even though the team isn't always that great they have been growing the fanbase and attendance. Playing at a baseball stadium isn't ideal, but it works and the location can't be beat. I'm not sure about the field dimensions at Bricktown, but if they could do it there then it'd work great. Tulsa's stadium seems to have been designed with a thought given to soccer, though we did have to install a retractable pitcher's mound.
citywokchinesefood 07-19-2023, 09:50 AM I think the biggest problem with the Energy is that Bob Funk Jr. is not a serious person, and Bob Funk Sr. does not give a flying **** about soccer. Every article I have seen about Junior is that he has made his own name, and is his own man, all done with his father's money. Prodigal is an apt name for the company that has mishandled the Energy for its entire tenure in OKC. I genuinely believe that the reason we do not currently have the Energy playing in OKC is because of two things: Senior was sick and tired of losing money for a team that isn't even in the MLS, Junior didn't put in the effort to scout alternative locations and create the relationships necessary to utilize them. The Bricktown Ballpark is a gorgeous facility for a AAA ball club and would have been a great interim location. The Chickasaw like money, and they like to keep their facilities activated. The fact that prodigal didn't attempt to utilize their facility or one of the many others that could have accommodated the Energy until a purpose-built facility is ready is irresponsible. Their stewardship of the organization needs to come to an end, Prodigal has been an embarrassment for Oklahoma City. We should have a local pro soccer team that is a serious organization, we have the correct demographic. This city will support a well run professional sports franchise, the Thunder is one of the best examples in pro sports, and we should hold the grifters asking for handouts to the same standard we hold them too.
Dob Hooligan 07-19-2023, 10:02 AM I think the biggest problem with the Energy is that Bob Funk Jr. is not a serious person, and Bob Funk Sr. does not give a flying **** about soccer. Every article I have seen about Junior is that he has made his own name, and is his own man, all done with his father's money. Prodigal is an apt name for the company that has mishandled the Energy for its entire tenure in OKC. I genuinely believe that the reason we do not currently have the Energy playing in OKC is because of two things: Senior was sick and tired of losing money for a team that isn't even in the MLS, Junior didn't put in the effort to scout alternative locations and create the relationships necessary to utilize them. The Bricktown Ballpark is a gorgeous facility for a AAA ball club and would have been a great interim location. The Chickasaw like money, and they like to keep their facilities activated. The fact that prodigal didn't attempt to utilize their facility or one of the many others that could have accommodated the Energy until a purpose-built facility is ready is irresponsible. Their stewardship of the organization needs to come to an end, Prodigal has been an embarrassment for Oklahoma City. We should have a local pro soccer team that is a serious organization, we have the correct demographic. This city will support a well run professional sports franchise, the Thunder is one of the best examples in pro sports, and we should hold the grifters asking for handouts to the same standard we hold them too.
I think the only relationship the Chickasaw have with the ballpark is the naming rights. They do not mange or operate the facility IIRC.
Urbanized 07-19-2023, 10:07 AM ^^^^^^^^
That’s correct. Naming rights only. The ballpark is owned by the City and managed under agreement by the Dodgers, who by contract have exclusive rights to operate and to produce events within.
BoulderSooner 07-19-2023, 10:12 AM I think the only relationship the Chickasaw have with the ballpark is the naming rights. They do not mange or operate the facility IIRC.
this is correct
Laramie 07-19-2023, 10:24 AM What about using C. B. Speegle Stadium at Capitol Hill High School for the next two-to-three years:
Energy FC could build up a south side base of fans, this could carry over until the the MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium construction starting in 2025 target opening late 2026 or early 2027 is completed. An 8,000 seat chair back stadium
(expandable) with $41 million MAPS funding is budgeted.
BTW: Rumored that Bob Funk Sr., health is failing, your prayers would be greatly appreciated.
SEMIweather 07-19-2023, 10:42 AM What about using C. B. Speegle Stadium at Capitol Hill High School for the next two-to-three years:
Energy FC could build up a south side base of fans, this could carry over until the the MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium construction starting in 2025 target opening late 2026 or early 2027 is completed. An 8,000 seat chair back stadium
(expandable) with $41 million MAPS funding is budgeted.
BTW: Rumored that Bob Funk Sr., health is failing, your prayers would be greatly appreciated.
Same issue as Taft, not wide enough to meet USL standards. This is almost a moot point because it's obvious that the Energy under current ownership have no desire to come back until the MAPS 4 Stadium is completed, but if the team theoretically got new ownership and they did want to bring the team back in advance of a new stadium, I think that the UCO football stadium would be the best option. Playing surface is easily large enough to fit a regulation-sized pitch. Stadium is located in a high income part of the Metro, with lots of families, and is less than a mile from Downtown Edmond which would offer much better pregame amenities than the area surrounding Taft.
Canoe 07-19-2023, 01:45 PM Why is it assumed that the energy will get this arena and not a different team?
Laramie 07-19-2023, 03:07 PM https://primecompany.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/UCO-Wantland-Football-Stadium.jpg
Use of Richison Stadium (Capacity 12,000) on UCO campus would be the best option for now.
USL needs to give Prodigal a deadline...
jedicurt 07-19-2023, 03:20 PM prodigal honestly probably doesn't care anymore. even when they were running the Barons, why more energy went into the PBR events they were hosting than hockey. i was on the advisory board for the barons, so know first hand. i assume they were the same with the energy, it was always just the thing they did between PBR events.
SEMIweather 07-19-2023, 04:05 PM Why is it assumed that the energy will get this arena and not a different team?
Because Prodigal still owns the rights for a USL franchise in OKC, and the USL is the only second division soccer league in this country.
OKC2017 07-26-2023, 07:57 PM one of the best sites for a major league stadium near downtown is the area encompassing the strawberry fields proposed development.
one of the main issues would be the adjusting the city's street grid; but between walker and shartel and between sw 3rd and sw 7th streets you
can fit a 25K seat stadium that can be expandable even beyond 40K seats if ever needed. an incorporated into the stadium parking garage,
multiple points of access mainly through okc blvd, and a grand main entrance/fan zone just a block from scissortail park. in my opinion, if mayor holt and the city
are really serious about turning okc into a major league city they should seek out the private investors and developers to make it happen.
if major league soccer smells the money in the air they would not hesitate to expand to this market as long as the vision, leadership and the business plan is
solid. i think it is also worth noting that since major league soccer games run mostly throughout the summer it would complement instead of compete with
nba basketball in the city for major league sporting events downtown and therefore have year round activity. the demographics also point to a slow but steady growth
in the interest for the sport amongst the newer generations so looking into the future the city may ride that wave of new and greater demand for live major league
sporting events and entertainment. another site with potential but accessibility challenges is wheeler park between i-40, the river, western and lee.
^
There is a huge problem with the Strawberry Fields area: they've paid a fortune for all that land and therefore it would cost the City a ton to acquire what they need in that area.
The Producers Coop land is expensive too but only because they are asking an unreasonable price. They have very little invested there and probably would cut a deal for the stadium so that project can finally move forward.
Richard at Remax 07-26-2023, 10:56 PM What about the Paycom site?
I'd be shocked if the stadium doesn't end up at OKANA.
Laramie 07-27-2023, 07:51 AM That was my next question, about the OKANA site since there will be some structured parking. On a budget of $ 41 million, you're not going to be able to build any kind of stadium without something supported with parking.
smitteebc 07-27-2023, 07:56 AM I'd be shocked if the stadium doesn't end up at OKANA.
Do you think the Chickasaw Nation would partner with the city in any way to make the stadium larger or more fan friendly (shade structures)? Also, would a tribe ever get involved in ownership for a soccer team?
Do you think the Chickasaw Nation would partner with the city in any way to make the stadium larger or more fan friendly (shade structures)? Also, would a tribe ever get involved in ownership for a soccer team?
I believe the Chickasaws would give the City a great deal on the land, provide parking and amenities as well as ingress/egress and perhaps invest in the stadium with its own money.
Not sure about team ownership but the stadium is going to happen completely independent of that. The City doesn't have an operating team right now and the stadium project is still moving forward.
Canoe 07-27-2023, 08:33 AM one of the best sites for a major league stadium near downtown is the area encompassing the strawberry fields proposed development.
one of the main issues would be the adjusting the city's street grid; but between walker and shartel and between sw 3rd and sw 7th streets you
can fit a 25K seat stadium that can be expandable even beyond 40K seats if ever needed. an incorporated into the stadium parking garage,
multiple points of access mainly through okc blvd, and a grand main entrance/fan zone just a block from scissortail park. in my opinion, if mayor holt and the city
are really serious about turning okc into a major league city they should seek out the private investors and developers to make it happen.
if major league soccer smells the money in the air they would not hesitate to expand to this market as long as the vision, leadership and the business plan is
solid. i think it is also worth noting that since major league soccer games run mostly throughout the summer it would complement instead of compete with
nba basketball in the city for major league sporting events downtown and therefore have year round activity. the demographics also point to a slow but steady growth
in the interest for the sport amongst the newer generations so looking into the future the city may ride that wave of new and greater demand for live major league
sporting events and entertainment. another site with potential but accessibility challenges is wheeler park between i-40, the river, western and lee.
I would be in favor of this idea if the Strawberry Feilds group broke even or lost money on the sale. Overpaying for land and sitting on it for decades should not be rewarded by the public.
I believe the Chickasaws would give the City a great deal on the land, provide parking and amenities as well as ingress/egress and perhaps invest in the stadium with its own money.
Not sure about team ownership but the stadium is going to happen completely independent of that. The City doesn't have an operating team right now and the stadium project is still moving forward.
I have a feeling the Chickasaws don't do any half-measures, especially if it's connected to OKANA. I think the stadium would have a better chance to be properly invested in here than some other location.
chrisTOEpher 07-27-2023, 08:42 AM If the Chickasaws do it, you know they will do it well. They dont half-butt any project they do. I would consider that a pretty significant win for the city over some of the private options that have been tossed around.
Reminder the entire budget for this project is $41 million.
To pay Strawberry Fields anywhere near what they already have invested in their land would take the majority of that budget. IMO, this is not even close to a workable alternative.
The land near Farmer's Market might work. Producers Coop might cut them a deal because development opportunities are completely passing them by.
But I'm pretty darn sure it is going to be located at OKANA.
john60 07-27-2023, 09:16 AM Do the Chickasaws own land adjacent to OKANA where the stadium could go, or would they need to acquire more land?
Do the Chickasaws own land adjacent to OKANA where the stadium could go, or would they need to acquire more land?
They own everything between the First American Museum and I-35.
The presumption is that the stadium would be placed there as part of a future phase of OKANA.
Richard at Remax 07-27-2023, 10:54 AM They own everything between the First American Museum and I-35.
The presumption is that the stadium would be placed there as part of a future phase of OKANA.
Does the city have a deal with the Energy that if a stadium is built, they are the tenants, or get first right of refusal? I hope not. The city should stay clear of anything associated with the Funks after what they did with the Barons and the Energy.
SEMIweather 07-27-2023, 01:12 PM Does the city have a deal with the Energy that if a stadium is built, they are the tenants, or get first right of refusal? I hope not. The city should stay clear of anything associated with the Funks after what they did with the Barons and the Energy.
The issue is that Prodigal still owns the USL franchise rights to OKC. We could probably get someone to bring a NISA (third-division) team here, but the quality of play wouldn't be nearly as good as the USL, not to mention that most of the clubs in that league have next to no fan support. MLS is still an option as I feel they're likely going to expand to 40 teams over the next decade or two, but it would take some very deep pockets.
Dob Hooligan 07-27-2023, 01:14 PM Does the city have a deal with the Energy that if a stadium is built, they are the tenants, or get first right of refusal? I hope not. The city should stay clear of anything associated with the Funks after what they did with the Barons and the Energy.
I don't know the Funk organization, but I have a couple observations about the Barons and Energy.
Hindsight suggests the Funks were sold a bill of goods when they got into the hockey business. Right after they gave up and wrote off their millions of dollars in losses, the NHL decided they were moving toward having their highest (AAA for lack of a better term) level teams closer to the east and west coasts, and/or having those teams closer to the parent than OKC was to Edmonton. TBH, OKC just didn't (and doesn't) fit into what the NHL is doing with their affiliates.
I don't see anything about the USL complaining about how the Funks are handling the situation in OKC. I don't see anyone with money stepping up to buy the team and do something different. I don't see Chad Richison say that he wants "his" stadium at UCO to be modified and used for USL Soccer. I don't see any other stadium "owners" offering to fix this situation.
jedicurt 07-27-2023, 01:51 PM I don't know the Funk organization, but I have a couple observations about the Barons and Energy.
Hindsight suggests the Funks were sold a bill of goods when they got into the hockey business. Right after they gave up and wrote off their millions of dollars in losses, the NHL decided they were moving toward having their highest (AAA for lack of a better term) level teams closer to the east and west coasts, and/or having those teams closer to the parent than OKC was to Edmonton. TBH, OKC just didn't (and doesn't) fit into what the NHL is doing with their affiliates.
as someone who sat on the barons season seat holder advisory board, i can tell you first hand that the issues were more with prodigal having no idea what they were doing, or how to run an organization. even simple things that should have been easy to work out that were brought up regularly, seemed like impossible tasks for them to implement. from what we heard from Edmonton, i think they would have kept their AHL team here, had it been more successful, and a vast majority of the reasons it wasn't was solely on prodigal focusing on trying these major big promotions and car giveaways, but not actually fixing the many game day operations issues that made many not come back after their first game.
i think edmonton ended up deciding they had to move the team once the Energy was announced, and prodigals focus clearly became soccer, and they basically just gave up on the Barons the last two years.
SEMIweather 07-27-2023, 02:07 PM as someone who sat on the barons season seat holder advisory board, i can tell you first hand that the issues were more with prodigal having no idea what they were doing, or how to run an organization. even simple things that should have been easy to work out that were brought up regularly, seemed like impossible tasks for them to implement. from what we heard from Edmonton, i think they would have kept their AHL team here, had it been more successful, and a vast majority of the reasons it wasn't was solely on prodigal focusing on trying these major big promotions and car giveaways, but not actually fixing the many game day operations issues that made many not come back after their first game.
i think edmonton ended up deciding they had to move the team once the Energy was announced, and prodigals focus clearly became soccer, and they basically just gave up on the Barons the last two years.
You already know this since we've talked about it in person before...but this is a very similar experience to the one that those of us who cared about the Energy have had over the past 5-6 years.
Richard at Remax 07-27-2023, 03:10 PM The issue is that Prodigal still owns the USL franchise rights to OKC. We could probably get someone to bring a NISA (third-division) team here, but the quality of play wouldn't be nearly as good as the USL, not to mention that most of the clubs in that league have next to no fan support. MLS is still an option as I feel they're likely going to expand to 40 teams over the next decade or two, but it would take some very deep pockets.
Do the rights expire? I wonder when that is. Esp if the club is dormant.
SEMIweather 07-27-2023, 03:13 PM Do the rights expire? I wonder when that is. Esp if the club is dormant.
I don't believe that they expire. I assume that Prodigal is probably paying some amount of money to the USL every year in order to renew the rights, and as long as they keep doing that, the USL doesn't really care if the club stays dormant.
Laramie 07-27-2023, 03:22 PM Taft Stadium is not an option, or getting OKC to the next level. Funks will never bring MLS to OKC, the MLS franchise fees are now $500 million.
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium030221l.jpg
Our city should build nothing less than a $150 million American football/soccer size 20,000 seat expandable stadium on city-owned land to accommodate USL or a future spring football league like the XFL or USFL
OKC2017 07-27-2023, 05:02 PM the issue i see with the okana site is the fact that the stadium would not be close enough to downtown to make it pedestrian friendly with multiple
means of access. if the purpose of the stadium is to host professional sports teams and a live entertainment venue it'd be best to be in downtown.
it is a requirement for major league soccer teams to build their stadiums in downtown or the immediate urban core in light of making the clubs
financially sustainable over time. in my opinion it would be a good idea to bring the chickasaws along as partners and investors; san diego was granted
a major league expansion franchise just two months ago, paying $500 million!!! for their expansion fee in a deal between a native american tribe, an
international billionaire private investor and the city as partners; the city already built and owns the stadium they will play in.
another question i have is how much is too much money to pay for a plot of land to build the stadium on and complement it with mix use development?
i remember drawing a diagram of a hypothetical proposed site next to the southern half of the scissortail park by walker and the river. if you measure the distance
from okana to downtown you get about two miles but from the river and walker site you get about half a mile and it allows for a pedestrian friendly atmosphere with
multi modes of transportation. what's interesting is that most of that land is for sale, it is being marketed by a real estate company called verbode and the asking price
for it is below $10 million (last time i checked). so i just wonder if the right team that includes a partnership with a local native american tribe, deep pocketed private investors,
developers and the city could make financial sense to build the stadium there and bring a major league team to the city? the private investors part is critical in my point of view
because even though the city has the obligation to lead the project with a vision for the future and make reasonable concessions here and there such as long term land leases,
permits, provide multi modes of public transportation and accessibility, etc. at the end of the day it should be the private owners who foot the bill of the stadium construction,
the franchise expansion fees and the operating costs of running the team. right now it takes about $1 billion to get into the MLS (stadium + expansion fees) and
it would be hard to find such investors with deep enough pockets to foot those bills, but there are some out there, the city and all the interested parties just have to seek them out.
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