When we lived in Puyallup and Sumner in 2007 - 2009, we used the Puyallup library and were very impressed by it, I definitely agree with your points about the differences between ours and theirs. One of ours is just a space in a strip mall, and a couple of others look pretty much like pre-fab stainless steel sheds. But I have no idea where the Metro Library system would get the money to make them better, it doesn't seem to be a priority here (your area has way more highly educated people than OKC/OK does, so they most likely place more emphasis/money on libraries than OKC/OK does). Improving transit to/from them is do-able, though, I'd think, but improving transit in OKC is another, massive can of worms (bus signage improvement should be easy, though).

It seems like you guys are picking a few awesome libraries within the Seattle area and comparing them to our smallest in Luther and Nicoma Park. Put up our Downtown, Northwest, or Bethany branches against any of those and they compare favorably in terms of both facilities and services. Although not in OKC, did I mention Norman's new central library? That thing is incredible. I hate the narrative that we don't do enough when the library systems in our area have been doing plenty to keep up or even exceed what others are doing elsewhere. There are bigger cities and metros that continually see massive budget cuts to libraries which have led to the closing of branches throughout the country. We do not have that problem. Our library systems in the OKC Metro are expanding, remodeling, or building while other libraries are shutting their doors.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/normanlibrary.jpg

[/B]

Almonte wasn't even supposed to be a library. It was a temp location for Southern Oaks back in 2012 while it was being renovated. MLS asked the city to keep it open when they signed up 5,000-6,000 new patrons at that location. The city also has land set aside for a new Almonte Library. It's coming, but these projects take some time.

As for Luther and Nicoma Park, those cities need to take a look at what Jones did. Keep in mind, the cities own the buildings, not the Metropolitan Library System.

Thanks for the clarification, did not know any of that. Is the ownership of buildings by the city they're in the same for all the Metro Library buildings, I wonder?


It seems like you guys are picking a few awesome libraries within the Seattle area and comparing them to our smallest in Luther and Nicoma Park. Put up our Downtown, Northwest, or Bethany branches against any of those and they compare favorably in terms of both facilities and services. Although not in OKC, did I mention Norman's new central library? That thing is incredible. I hate the narrative that we don't do enough when the library systems in our area have been doing plenty to keep up or even exceed what others are doing elsewhere. There are bigger cities and metros that continually see massive budget cuts to libraries which have led to the closing of branches throughout the country. We do not have that problem. Our library systems in the OKC Metro are expanding, remodeling, or building while other libraries are shutting their doors.

16273

I kinda did address that, my posts said they do amazing things, but still have a ways to go before they're all as nice as our (or the Seattle area's) nicest, and that yes, they're continually working on them. Norman's isn't part of the Metro Library system, so that's why I didn't mention it, glad it's amazing...

As a side note, I absolutely love the Warr Acres library.

It opened in 1967 and it has remained pretty much original, which is a good thing because it has serious mid-century charm and a great vaulted ceiling and huge stone fireplace.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/librarywarracres.png

The second library in Pete's post is amazing. I thought it had to be the downtown library until I visited the library website. The description is over the top for a public library. I am a huge supporter of the public library system but let's be honest the disparity in design even among the newer libraries follows the usual pattern in OKC.

The second library in Pete's post is amazing. I thought it had to be the downtown library until I visited the library website. The description is over the top for a public library. I am a huge supporter of the public library system but let's be honest the disparity in design even among the newer libraries follows the usual pattern in OKC.

That's the Northwest library on MacArthur and 122nd (or Hefner). We used it a few times when we lived on 164th/May, it's one of the 3rd/4th newest in the system and it's very cool inside too.

It does look amazing. They should all be at this level. The disparity in public services is disheartening. It is why I have given up on Oklahoma City.

My wish is that Yukon would stop their nonsense and join the MLS. We could use a better looking building... Maybe if they would put in windows I would like it more. But while I was at Southern Nazarene, our on campus library was a part of the MLS, so we could get inter-library loans delivered to our campus as well as when we started college we were signed up with accounts to the MLS. I dread when my account is up in about a year or so...

I was just thinking about our many branches of the library system and how we are admiring all the services and technology and comfort of our new ones and the remodeling work, etc.

I remember when I used to work in the Stockyards area and would pop into the Wright Library at 2101 Exchange Avenue.

Ever been there? I loved it because of it's difference. It's resembles just an old brick house visually. It's very small and has few features, but it's wonderful to go in and just enjoy the simplicity. It was opened in 1925. I'm sure my house is larger.

I got a haircut in the Stockyards yesterday and should have gone to the Wright but didn't have time.

(If Pete doesn't mind a plug, and you live or work near the Stockyards, go see Teresa at The Cuttin' Co, next door to Cattlemens Restaurant , for your haircuts. She's awesome and needs all the new customers she can get. Pete, if you need to then delete this paragraph. Thanks)

[/B]

Almonte wasn't even supposed to be a library. It was a temp location for Southern Oaks back in 2012 while it was being renovated. MLS asked the city to keep it open when they signed up 5,000-6,000 new patrons at that location. The city also has land set aside for a new Almonte Library. It's coming, but these projects take some time.

As for Luther and Nicoma Park, those cities need to take a look at what Jones did. Keep in mind, the cities own the buildings, not the Metropolitan Library System.

That would explain why the parking lot at Warr Acres is so atrocious. Unless they've repaved it in the last 12 months, It hadn't been paved and marked since we moved there in 1994 (with the exception of the rework done with the 63rd St entrance when Neighborhood Market was built).

I didn't mean to criticize OKC's system, only to say that I think they need to update or really ADD new libraries throughout the county/perhaps metro. I also meant emphasis should be on design to make them enviting.

I know downtown and NW are brand new and up to par with ours, I even said that. And I know about Capital Hill and the reno with Belle Isle. But what about Ralph Ellison, isn't it due for an upgrade and/or addition?

And Pete, you definitely can not deny my statement about lack of transit connecting OKC's system. Whereas here, transit is not only available but is a no-brainer essential - and people riding by get off and use the system (pre-Covid of course, it's all closed now).

Again, I'm not picking - I'm just offering a critique based on when I lived in OKC (where the libraries truly sucked) vs. the new OKC updates/adds vs. still King County Library. You can't look at the links I provided and think otherwise.

KCLS (King County Library System) is one of the best in the nation, better than even than Seattle and Tacoma/Pierce [which Puyallup belongs to] in my region, but all of whom are also well connected to transit and most designed to invite guests (lots of glass/lighting). I hope OKC could benchmark KCLS in these regards, it will uplift the populus and may help move OKC off those low education lists since that's one of the reason's why Seattle/metro always ranks highly. ...

It's close; hopefully work starts soon.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle072620a.jpg

I was just thinking about our many branches of the library system and how we are admiring all the services and technology and comfort of our new ones and the remodeling work, etc.

I remember when I used to work in the Stockyards area and would pop into the Wright Library at 2101 Exchange Avenue.

Ever been there? I loved it because of it's difference. It's resembles just an old brick house visually. It's very small and has few features, but it's wonderful to go in and just enjoy the simplicity. It was opened in 1925. I'm sure my house is larger.

I got a haircut in the Stockyards yesterday and should have gone to the Wright but didn't have time.

(If Pete doesn't mind a plug, and you live or work near the Stockyards, go see Teresa at The Cuttin' Co, next door to Cattlemens Restaurant , for your haircuts. She's awesome and needs all the new customers she can get. Pete, if you need to then delete this paragraph. Thanks)

This library is very similar, if not an exact copy of the original library out in Yukon. You can find it at 510 Elm Ave. Yukon, OK.

I mean, right now Ancestry.com is completely free and accessible from home through the library system. I know people who pay for that monthly!



Wow, we had no idea! Is there a specific way for us to get access? I don't see anything on metrolibrary.org about Ancestry. We've been going to the library for over 5 years now and never knew of some of these extras.

Most resources available to library card holders are listed on the "databases" page, which includes Ancestry:

https://www.metrolibrary.org/find/research-and-learn/databases-a-z

Most resources available to library card holders are listed on the "databases" page, which includes Ancestry:

https://www.metrolibrary.org/find/research-and-learn/databases-a-z

Appreciate that! Guess I could've looked a little harder.

They had the official groundbreaking today.

Should start to see some construction soon.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle090520a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle100820a.jpg

I don't think I realized they were completely gutting it INSIDE as well as out...

https://twitter.com/cityofokc/status/1315742425147682824

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle122020a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle122020b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle122020c.jpg

Wow, these photos are great, thanks Pete! You can really get a sense for how the new wings will be oriented on the plot. I've tried to scope out progress while driving NW Expy, but the mounds of dirt usually block the view.

I agree wholeheartedly that Villa desperately needs ped/bike accessibility, especially with the Belle Isle Library getting these improvements; the fact that there's no sidewalks between the middle school and public library is astonishing. I live nearby and have gone on runs in this neighborhood, and it's really not possible to run/walk safely on Villa. You see some desire paths in the grass.

An early MAPS3 asset from 2015 showed the segment of Villa between NW Expy and 63rd as a proposed sidewalk, to meet up with sidewalks on 63rd. https://i.imgur.com/Nxi4xAt.jpg

The ones on 63rd show up on the Better Streets Safer City project list and are indeed coming to fruition now (under construction). But Villa didn't seem to make the cut from what I can tell. Interestingly, under planned projects on the Better Streets website I found "Bike Lanes: Along the N. Villa Ave., N. Youngs Blvd., and N. Venice Blvd. alignments between NW 62nd St. and NW 10th St.", but no mention of sidewalks. It seems odd that they would be planning bike lanes here and not have a plan for pedestrian access as well. There are still unallocated funds, though, so maybe it's just not in this round. At any rate, this area has been on their radar.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle032121a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle032121b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle032121c.jpg

This project's going quickly. Any idea when the library is supposed to re-open?

This project's going quickly. Any idea when the library is supposed to re-open?

"Early 2022" is the latest I could find. Seems on track for that.

https://kfor.com/news/local/renovation-expansion-of-oklahoma-citys-belle-isle-library-begins/

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle070221a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle070221b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle070221c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle070221d.jpg

Great Photos!

Nice pics, especially the last one, thanks! Hope they have enough parking, looks like it's all going to be along NW Expwy and next to the office building?

Like everything that's happening but it's such a severe gutting that I'm wondering if this could have been an opportunity to add a floor.

The only thing wrong with those recent pics is not seeing Charcoal Oven on the other side of the tower.

From city council today:

https://twitter.com/OKC_SPAN/status/1427648699224793093


Now Eric Wenger of Public Works brings a change order for some of the interior work on the Belle Isle library. They’re adding 11,000 square feet to the library. Due for completion in December. Exciting.

https://twitter.com/TylerBHolmes/status/1428161071081299973?s=20

From this morning (Saturday):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle082121a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle082121b.jpg

A wonderful melding of the new and the old...

From this morning (Saturday):
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle082121b.jpg

I like it. The shape has me personally calling this place the Millennium Falcon.

On a side note, it's interesting how this one portion of the city actually has it's own skyline. If the other buildings were to update their appearances, it would pop out a lot more at night. From this perspective, it's like a drastically reduced variation of the Vegas Strip.

Those windows make a nice statement facing NW Expressway.

Any updates on this one?

They are supposed to be done by the end of the year.

I'll take some new drone photos this week.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021f.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021g.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021h.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021i.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle101021j.jpg

This is really awesome. When we lived down there, my wife would take my kids there often for open reading with animals. What a wonderful library. I think this is an awesome investment by the city is great for the area.

It's cool how they've kept the stone on some of the now interior columns which were once the outside walls.

There is still the original flagstone flooring inside the entrance as well.

And those big window bays provide great views out to the surrounding neighborhood.

Such a great project.

Drove by this the other day for the first time in a very long time. Those big glass windows look terrific. It's going to be unrecognizable from the library I frequented as a junior high/high school student.

This is such a home run for the area. I can't wait to visit after they are finished.

Edit: It really calls for sidewalks up and down Villa Ave, I just double checked Google Maps for that and was so disappointed to see the lack of good pedestrian access. Imagine living right next to a library like so many people in the area do and having to chance walking to it in the street or on people's lawns.

They had said it should be finished by the end of the year, but as you can tell by the interior photos, they are really going to have to hustle.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle112821a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle112821b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle112821c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/belleisle112821d.jpg

Love it!

yes, and how they're adding sidewalk pedestrian connectivity from the start. only question is if they're also integrating with transit - would be cheaper to do it now than tear it up.

Going to have to be bus routes or something. I'm a transit guy but they'd have to eat half their budget or more to get streetcar or similar out there.

I've said this several times but adding a pedestrian crossing at NW Expressway and Villa should be the first priority.

I live south of there and it is literally almost impossible to cross that intersection. There are no crosswalks or 'walk' lights or buttons, and NW Ex is so wide and the traffic so heavy that you have to run fast and still can't make it across on a green light. It's like an effort was made to make it impossible.

And right next to a major library that is now being expanded by 10,000 square feet.

It would take about a half mile off sidewalk to connect to Penn and the upcoming BRT stops there. Slightly pie in the sky. but with the new sidewalk they have put in right in front of the library that might be a sign someone is thinking about them along NW Expressway.

^

Sidewalks are required when there is a big construction project, so I wouldn't read too much into what has been built.

In addition to the absurd lack of pedestrian crossing at Villa, there are no real sidewalks along either side of NW Expressway anywhere. This means even if you are near Villa and want to walk down to Penn where there is a decent crossing the future BRT stop, you can't do it without slogging through weeds and mud. Same way if you want to head towards May or really anywhere along the corridor.

It just goes to show who hard and expensive it is to undo a century of not thinking of these things. Very easy to add them when everything is being constructed than crazy expensive to do it afterward.

Didn't the city take over management of NW Expressway from the state somewhat recently? I suspect that ODOT was never particularly interested in running it as anything other than a highway, maybe we'll see changes to make it more pedestrian friendly under city management. The upcoming crosswalks coming with the BRT stations at Penn make me slightly optimistic.

Kinda like the pedestrian friendly changes we've seen for OKC boulevard?

other parts of the country even highways (not freeways guys) have sidewalks where there's development density or even between developments. Not sure why Oklahoma and OKC have been so hell bent on not building sidewalks into the road construction but this needs to change rapidly if we want a fit, accessible city.

other parts of the country even highways (not freeways guys) have sidewalks where there's development density or even between developments. Not sure why Oklahoma and OKC have been so hell bent on not building sidewalks into the road construction but this needs to change rapidly if we want a fit, accessible city.

Because there's 600+ Square miles to cover with sidewalks and only 700k people. Obviously that's a bit of an over simplification, but we're just so sprawled and we only recently started caring about it.

I think one thing we've done a poor job during our renaissance is really identifying and investing in our Arterial Roads. It seems to me like we've kind of identified every sectional road as important and we're just kind of getting to them when we get to them. That NWX doesn't have significant pedestrian infrastructure in place and that it is the first route for BRT shows that we haven't really thought this through. I looked at Houston's Westheimer road from the Galleria (W 5000 block) all the way to the W ~15000 block before there curb disappeared on the westbound side (I think it was the same or longer on the eastbound side). It's not always pretty and I don't think I'd call it walkable, but having only sporadic sidewalks along NWX (which is about as close as we get to Westheimer) shows how far off we are from rational planning and development. If Houston can get if 15000 blocks, we should be able to figure it out for half that stretch.

Because there's 600+ Square miles to cover with sidewalks and only 700k people. Obviously that's a bit of an over simplification, but we're just so sprawled and we only recently started caring about it.

I think one thing we've done a poor job during our renaissance is really identifying and investing in our Arterial Roads. It seems to me like we've kind of identified every sectional road as important and we're just kind of getting to them when we get to them. That NWX doesn't have significant pedestrian infrastructure in place and that it is the first route for BRT shows that we haven't really thought this through. I looked at Houston's Westheimer road from the Galleria (W 5000 block) all the way to the W ~15000 block before there curb disappeared on the westbound side (I think it was the same or longer on the eastbound side). It's not always pretty and I don't think I'd call it walkable, but having only sporadic sidewalks along NWX (which is about as close as we get to Westheimer) shows how far off we are from rational planning and development. If Houston can get if 15000 blocks, we should be able to figure it out for half that stretch.
Excellent point, as usual, Teo.

From Marty's reporting of today's council meeting, starting at: https://twitter.com/OKC_SPAN/status/1468241500656095232


Now a change order for the Belle Isle library. This allows changing some of the interior glass. Also adding 50 days. Hopefully it will be ready to open at the end of January.

Pedestrian infrastructure improvements for that intersection are on a similar timeline.

I wasn't aware of the pedestrian improvements but very, very happy to hear they are being planned.

Even just a basic crosswalk with buttons and enough time to actually cross NW Expressway would be a huge improvement.

Because there's 600+ Square miles to cover with sidewalks and only 700k people. Obviously that's a bit of an over simplification, but we're just so sprawled and we only recently started caring about it.

I think one thing we've done a poor job during our renaissance is really identifying and investing in our Arterial Roads. It seems to me like we've kind of identified every sectional road as important and we're just kind of getting to them when we get to them. That NWX doesn't have significant pedestrian infrastructure in place and that it is the first route for BRT shows that we haven't really thought this through. I looked at Houston's Westheimer road from the Galleria (W 5000 block) all the way to the W ~15000 block before there curb disappeared on the westbound side (I think it was the same or longer on the eastbound side). It's not always pretty and I don't think I'd call it walkable, but having only sporadic sidewalks along NWX (which is about as close as we get to Westheimer) shows how far off we are from rational planning and development. If Houston can get if 15000 blocks, we should be able to figure it out for half that stretch.

counterpoint - I'm not talking about sidewalks in the entire 600 square miles limits just the areas that are built up or are inbetween built up areas. For all intents and purposes, the rural areas of the 600 square miles (more than 1/3 of the total btw) could be assumed to not even be part of the city limits but even there arteries should have sidewalks as part of general road construction once it's funded/built. But the focus area should be the built up suburban and urban city, 400 square miles, where every artery and most major neighborhood roads should be sidewalked. This would allow connectivity to transit in a real way along with alternatives to driving where people can safely walk to destinations and have fitness opportunities. This is a no brainer and should be adopted as a practice by the city moving forward.

No more excuses OKC.You've built roads/sewers/pipelines/utilities on 600 square miles, no excuse not to also build sidewalks while you're building the road/utilities.

^

All new construction requires sidewalks.

And many miles have been installed through MAPS 3 with more to come through MAPS 4.

Good progress has been made. My neighborhood now has sidewalks on almost every residential street.

Is there a book repository there?