again, a private daycare could still come in - there's plenty of retail space.

in all honesty, I don't see the point of a government funded daycare. If it's something we want (and I agree that it is warranted), then let's convince KinderCare, Kiddie Academy, Goddard School, Le Petite, etc to open up in the some of the retail space. Solved!

again, a private daycare could still come in - there's plenty of retail space.

in all honesty, I don't see the point of a government funded daycare. If it's something we want (and I agree that it is warranted), then let's convince KinderCare, Kiddie Academy, Goddard School, Le Petite, etc to open up in the some of the retail space. Solved!

I don't disagree. but it seemed like part of the sales pitch was that some of this housing would be targeted towards people who work at the CC, CHK arena, bricktown etc. i.e. lower income, single parent or both working parents. bringing workers closer to their jobs and having a place that doesn't require a separate trip for child care.

They have filed their building permit application.

Construction should start in a couple of months.

a couple of months have already passed.
is this building supossed to start construction this month?

a couple of months have already passed.
is this building supossed to start construction this month?

I just checked and their filed building permits are still pending awaiting corrections from their end.

The city requested the plan corrections on 11/5.

I just checked and their filed building permits are still pending awaiting corrections from their end.

The city requested the plan corrections on 11/5.

What had to be corrected?

What had to be corrected?

It's a very common process with building permit applications, especially those large in scale.

In this case, you can't see through the on-line system what additional items were requested.

Often, they go back and forth several times.

The bottom line is they are still finalizing this and they can't really start until the permit is issued... Although sometimes contractors will start foundation work (which is allowed).

Bump...is this project dead? Seems like this was supposed to start a long time ago, lol.

No, not dead.

I'm sure they are waiting for the price of lumber and steel to go down.

Same with 700 West and Alley's End.

Some of these supply chain related hikes might be in place for a year or two....

a few weeks ago i passed by and saw workers + equipment from an environmental solutions company. i wondered if the delays on the
project have anything to do with pollution on site and a brownfield cleaning requisite to allow construction to begin???

a few weeks ago i passed by and saw workers + equipment from an environmental solutions company. i wondered if the delays on the
project have anything to do with pollution on site and a brownfield cleaning requisite to allow construction to begin???

Given there has been so much construction right around there I wouldn’t expect them to have any surprises. Maybe just some testing or something but I saw them
Out there as well

a few weeks ago i passed by and saw workers + equipment from an environmental solutions company. i wondered if the delays on the
project have anything to do with pollution on site and a brownfield cleaning requisite to allow construction to begin???

I would think all that should have been completed prior to requesting the building permit.

Unforeseen things come up during construction. Maybe the survey didn’t find an abandoned oil pit; the CO-OP site across the street/viaduct to the east used to be an oilfield in the state’s formative days. Who knows.

700 West and Alley's End are in the same stalled state.

Beyond the cost, access to necessary building materials is very limited everywhere.

700 West and Alley's End are in the same stalled state.

Beyond the cost, access to necessary building materials is very limited everywhere.

What is Alley's End? I know what 700 West is, but I'm brain farting on Alleys End.

What is Alley's End? I know what 700 West is, but I'm brain farting on Alleys End.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=38885&page=26&p=1109141#post1109141

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=38885&page=26&p=1109141#post1109141

Oh, okay. I didn't know it had been branded Alley's End. That's the one I'm looking forward to come together. Whenever that is.

They just submitted their final schematics for OCURA approval tomorrow (not sure why this wasn't done before) so hopefully we'll start to see things move forward.

They just submitted their final schematics for OCURA approval tomorrow (not sure why this wasn't done before) so hopefully we'll start to see things move forward.

Any noticeable changes?

Any noticeable changes?

Not that I could see.

They submitted their full building permit application and received design review approval some time ago. Both of those require re-submission if there are changes and that hasn't happened.

With Tim Strange heading it up, I believe this will be a quality project.

I read a WSJ article this morning about the price of lumber dropping, can't help but wonder if motion on this is related.

I read a WSJ article this morning about the price of lumber dropping, can't help but wonder if motion on this is related.

I looked up lumber prices earlier today, and yeah, lumber prices have dropped quite a bit in the past couple to few weeks. How long it takes to reach actual lumber used in construction is another question.

I had a brief conversation with Tim Strange about this project last winter. What I most remember is that he said there are city, state and federal government agencies involved with the project and some areas of the project take 3 or more levels of approval. Leading to delays before COVID was factored in.

Construction set to start on hundreds of affordable apartments despite supply shortages
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/06/17/affordable-housing-oklahoma-city-construction-to-start-on-hundreds-units/5295030001/

Alley's End, Boulevard Place, and 700 West mentioned.

If I understood what went down today, $5M+ TIF for this passed today

I am disgusted with how this project turned out. Unless I missed something, the $1k-plus 300 square foot studios are not "affordable" housing in OKC. While they may technically qualify for "affordable" housing when you compare OKC to places like Austin, NY and San Fran, they are not affordable for the majority of staff who will work at the Omni, the group for which we are allegedly paying to subsidize.

To repeat, we are subsidizing this development for so-called "affordable housing." It seems like what we got is a bait and switch.

I remember this process as a competitive process between developers. When awarding the bid to Boulevard Place, Cathy O'Connor referenced the number of "affordable rate" apartments as a key factor in awarding this company the bid.

Were I one of the competitive development groups I would be extremely upset with the outcome of this process and be considering possible legal action.

Outcomes like this provide fuel to those who are against TIF projects in OKC. I am not one of those people, as I believe TIFs are an important tool

I am disgusted with how this project turned out. Unless I missed something, the $1k-plus 300 square foot studios are not "affordable" housing in OKC. While they may technically qualify for "affordable" housing when you compare OKC to places like Austin, NY and San Fran, they are not affordable for the majority of staff who will work at the Omni, the group for which we are allegedly paying for.

To repeat, we are subsidizing this development for so-called "affordable housing." It seems like what we got is a bait and switch.

I remember this process as a competitive process between developers. When awarding the bid to Boulevard Place, Cathy O'Connor referenced the number of "affordable rate" apartments as a key factor in awarding this company the bid.

Were I one of the competitive development groups I would be extremely upset with the outcome of this process and be considering possible legal action.

Outcomes like this provide fuel to those who are against TIF projects in OKC. I am not one of those people, as I believe TIFs are an important tool

But there are units in the development being built that will be below market rate...not sure what you are talking about here. Sure, there are plenty of the $1k units, but also a lot that will be well below that (as $1k is likely above market rate). This development will also likely spell more retail and restaurants in the area, so in all, the TIF will be worth it. But again, 10% of the units are "below market-rate". Not sure who sets that rate, though the market rate would have to be approved by the city council.

Not according to an article I read about this two weeks ago in the Free Press. The $1k units were the cheapest, and they were for studios. The Oklahoman has done zero reporting on this matter.

Not according to an article I read about this two weeks ago in the Free Press. The $1k units were the cheapest, and they were for studios. The Oklahoman has done zero reporting on this matter.

Here's an article from June of this year in The Oklahoman:https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/06/17/affordable-housing-oklahoma-city-construction-to-start-on-hundreds-units/5295030001/

"Boulevard Place includes 36 units that will be rented as workforce housing for those in the 80% to 120% of average median income."

Per what I saw in the city council meeting, the actual affordable units are no longer a thing

$650 was mention as the previous number but I guess it's much higher now

If I understood what went down today, $5M+ TIF for this passed today

they actually got 7.2 mil plus ..

The latest update from OCURA shows:

Commenced Expected April 2022
Completed Expected December 2023

Here's an article from June of this year in The Oklahoman:https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/06/17/affordable-housing-oklahoma-city-construction-to-start-on-hundreds-units/5295030001/

"Boulevard Place includes 36 units that will be rented as workforce housing for those in the 80% to 120% of average median income."

That does not state the rent. It reads like a press release.

Per what I saw in the city council meeting, the actual affordable units are no longer a thing

$650 was mention as the previous number but I guess it's much higher now

Yes it went up 80%. Infuriating. Cathy O’Connor is shameless.

Not stanning her but why is it her fault vs the developer? Honest question, haven't been following.

AHh the old debate of what is affordable.

Just doing a quick search on apartment.com with a circle around the core. The only ones I found under $1,000 were:

$700-750 at Regency (Studio, 1 bath, 434 sqft)
$850-875 at Regency (1 bed, 1 bath, 570 sqft)
$925 at The Haven (1 bed, 1 bath, 711 sqft, none available)
$950 at Park Harvey (1 bed, 1 bath, 582 sqft)

Quick glance most 1 bed, 1 bath units run between $1200-1600 in the core. So in my opinion, being in a brand new building, literally in the middle of it all, and the affordable units are $1,000/month? I think that's a pretty good deal.

Of course you do. You are a realtor. 1000 plus for a studio, not a one bedroom, in a building we are subsidizing for 7.2 million? It is why Hamon and Cooper and Nice voted against this project in the end. Cooper had been a huge proponent of it. All of the Council expressed shock at the increase in what the project originally indicated the few affordable units would cost.

The developer blamed it on construction costs rising, although lumber is already coming down.

I don't think be being a realtor has anything to do with it. just looking at numbers.

If you feel like this over this project, how do you feel about Wheeler where they got $120 million+ in subsidies where 95%+ of the general public can't afford? Those were supposed to have affordable units too. I think that is the bigger tragedy.

I’d say both projects are deeply problematic. The city really should expect actual affordable housing here. Otherwise, it’s just more government handouts for wealthy developers who don’t need them.

I am disgusted with how this project turned out. Unless I missed something, the $1k-plus 300 square foot studios are not "affordable" housing in OKC.

They don't have 300 sqft apartments.
From Rose Rock:
"the eight-story steel structure has 241 residential units ranging in size from 650 to 1,400 SF, with over 30% of those being offered at affordable rates and multiple different floor plan options. The apartments at Boulevard Place will consist of studio, one bedroom, two bedroom and three bedroom units. "

I also cannot find where any rental rates have been posted or announced. Please post a link to show where they are intending to now make 300 sf apartments and the rent starts at $1,000.

I don't know the actual $ number for affordable housing designation in OKC, but the AVERAGE apartment rental rate in OKC is almost exactly $1 per foot per month.

My information about the $1,000/mo came from the city council video on 8/17. Please watch.

Hot take: government subsidized housing is good regardless of the price point of the individual units. We have a housing crisis, and the only way out of that is building more housing and the denser it is the better. Anything that moves the needle on that is worth investing in. Scarcity is part of the reason for the lack of affordability.

Hot take: government subsidized housing is good regardless of the price point of the individual units. We have a housing crisis, and the only way out of that is building more housing and the denser it is the better. Anything that moves the needle on that is worth investing in. Scarcity is part of the reason for the lack of affordability.

Agree. Quality developments filling a major need (downtown housing of any kind) should get some subsidy.

I recall this project has several layers of government involved in the structure and financing. Federal, state, county and city all have areas of control and interest. Affordable housing is top of mind with so many of these type projects, especially when federal money is involved. Also, specific dollar amounts are rarely dictated, due to unforeseen economic circumstance. Because federally chartered financial institutions are usually involved, it seems that percentages of some federal category are the rule (household income, poverty level, etc.).

$1000 a month for a 1400 sf would be below market. And you are sure it’s for 300 Sq Ft apartments?

$1000 a month for a 1400 sf would be below market. And you are sure it’s for 300 Sq Ft apartments?

There are no 300 Sq ft apartments in this building at all. Not sure where he got that from.

https://www.news9.com/story/61252c437e78e90bf3dfde96/luxury-apartment-complex-to-be-built-in-downtown-okc?fbclid=IwAR1vlqI-TwOzLtz1XT3cX2l7xMC2TTbX3iiv3QB35ITEXN35Yt6ALHFZIU E

What’s up with all the gray? The new apartment building down EK Gaylord is like that as well. Bleh

Did they change the design again, this looks like the original?

They had newer renderings, that had some color and more detail...so I don't know...

Well the article reads like the latest renderings will be shown on the news at 5P, tune in, lol.

These are not new renderings.

Same ones we posted some time ago.

https://www.news9.com/story/61252c437e78e90bf3dfde96/luxury-apartment-complex-to-be-built-in-downtown-okc?fbclid=IwAR1vlqI-TwOzLtz1XT3cX2l7xMC2TTbX3iiv3QB35ITEXN35Yt6ALHFZIU E


“I just have concerns when we are using public money and we are not getting the public benefit for more people in the community,” said Councilwoman JoBeth Hamon.

“Just running the numbers and working with the city, it just didn't make sense in that part of Oklahoma City to have units that were that low in rent,” Watts said.

These quotes stood out. Seems like having affordable units wasn’t even a consideration for the developer.

These quotes stood out. Seems like having affordable units wasn’t even a consideration for the developer.

And yet I am still ok with TIF funds for this. OKC has a dire need for downtown housing of any kind, so I am ok with it. Just my opinion, not bashing those who believe differently.

Plus, as a CPA, I totally understand what they are saying.

Is need the same thing as demand? Because if the demand exists then why is tif money needed?

Is need the same thing as demand? Because if the demand exists then why is tif money needed?

In this case, yes. Downtown land is still more expensive than suburban areas, so someone has to be the first to take the leap to build downtown.

After this first wave (Boulevard Place and Alley's End), I think that developers will see that the demand is there.

Huge developments like the Uhaul lot are an exception, and those types of developments get incentives in EVERY city. Maybe not TIF funds, but incentives are given. But for mainly apartment developments, I would think TIF funds will not be as freely given, going forward. But I am also pro-development, so a couple million in TIF funds really isn't much, despite what people may say. As long as the development is successful, then the TIF funds did their job. I am fairly easy-going with regards to things like that.

TIF is being used to clean-up the lands that OGE polluted.

TIF is being used to clean-up the lands that OGE polluted.

This is not correct. It's just a general grant to the developers.

I was quoting our local mass metro media source.