Moore actually does see a need as it has said it will explore operating its own bus service after it pulled out of the RTA plan. Bus service in Nichols Hills makes absolutely zero sense.

Moore "pulling out of the RTA plan" is the most Moore thing ever. It will never get service on par with service it would have as part of RTA. To me it's an indication that stakeholders didn't feel confident about getting the support of voters there. Dumb and shortsighted. Moore if anything strikes me as a city that is growing among the fastest of all OKC suburbs, which means it is probably bringing in folks from other parts of the country that may have a more positive view of public transit.

Who knows? But it's not likely that this gambit is going to lead to any kind of meaningful public transit for Moore.

As for Michigander's comment, who cares if Moore is a part of RTA or not? Its participation or lack thereof is not a harbinger of RTA's ultimate success in Central Oklahoma. It just means Moore citizens will be deprived of transit options due to the intransigence of their city leadership.

I agree it was a very dumb move. I don’t know what the peoples position in Moore is on this as I don’t really pay too much attention other than what I see in articles but why would you vote against having more transportation options? Now you’ll get to see a commuter train pass through your community instead of stopping at a station in yours. I’ll never understand that mindset.

I think the leaders should have stayed in and let the citizens vote on for themselves. Worse that happens is they say no and then Moore isn’t in the final RTA proposal if the other cities vote yes. So why did Moore pull out? Why would they recognize the need for bus service but think it should only be local and cut off from a large metropolitan area it’s part of? Do the city leaders think they’ll get voted out for even asking their constituents for a tax increase to offer commuter rail and bus transit? Or does it have to do with fears that it’ll bring in “rift raft” from OKC?

I really can’t understand how they rationalized pulling out. I could be convinced MWC has a better reason to pull out than Moore does. Still both cities are very shortsighted for doing so but I suspect it was to do with proposed tax rates which I’m sure will be revealed soon.

This isn't unlike the Treasure Coast communities here in Florida that sued to stop Brightline, and are now threatening to sue Brightline again if they don't include a stop along the Treasure Coast. As soon as Moore sees passenger trains running through town they will want back in, but that should come at a cost.

Explain why there is no bus service in Moore. Also explain why the Rte 5 goes around Nicholas hills and the village but not thru it.

I don't think the city of Moore has established any bus service themselves. Probably because of size of area to be covered and Moore doesn't have a ton of money. And, I doubt the citizens of Moore have made much of a demand for it. If those who would benefit by it would let the powers that be in Moore know of their interest in a demonstrative way, maybe it would help. Again, I doubt the citizens are as much against it as they are just not for it. Certainly Moore isn't a snobbish city and doesn't have any reason to look down their nose at buses or bus riders.

As for Nichol's hills, they discourage car traffic too.... main streets are extremely low speed. Only through streets are Penn which is narrow, Grand, and Wilshire. None have commercial services located on them, or office or public buildings. I doubt many NH residents prefer the buses. And, I believe the peripheral streets like Western do have bus service. As a separate municipality, I doubt NH has thought bus service is a necessary expense. I doubt they are snobbishly against it, but just see no real reason/justification for the expense.

I know a few people who live in Moore who said the city wants to keep out undesirables and that's why there no bus service.

Then you need to run around with other people. This idea that Moore is snobbish is pretty laughable.

This isn't unlike the Treasure Coast communities here in Florida that sued to stop Brightline, and are now threatening to sue Brightline again if they don't include a stop along the Treasure Coast. As soon as Moore sees passenger trains running through town they will want back in, but that should come at a cost.

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I remember there being talk that our RTA was set up to give some sort of preferential status to the founding members. I am having a hard time finding where I read that, or what the preferential status was - but I do believe there will be some sort of penalty if Moore decides they want back in.

I'll keep looking and if I do find it, I'll make sure to post it here (or in the RTA thread).

Bus service in Nichols Hills makes absolutely zero sense.

Agreed. 005 does better down Western as it better serves the Britton area. Lets be clear that most Nichols Hills folks would probably never take the bus so why waste money running the line through there.

Having ridden 005 a few times I think its a great route and its about to be combined with 003 later this year to account for the Rapid line

There are lots of domestic workers in Nichols Hills.

Bus riders are usually going to and from work.

Took this picture of the stop now in at 36th and Classen:

https://i.imgur.com/C3TZLqo.png

nice pic

OKC Free Press article about the new proposed “BRT” routes:

https://freepressokc.com/public-feedback-sessions-on-future-okc-brt-routes-still-underway/

N3 is the best choice for the NE "BRT" route given, the other two should already be normal local routes.

S3 is the best fit for a Southside "BRT" route, the other routes should be local.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mysocialpinpoint/uploads/redactor_assets/pictures/c4010d4786a159d66c7379c5544e6a4131b13ffd0bfdeac3c2 ac8d48e38560c4/72705/MAPS4_LandingPage-HOME.png

MAPS for BRT Alternatives - Bus Rapid Transit growth. If you would like to take the BRT survey, please clink on the link below: V V V V

https://engagekh.com/maps-4-brt-alternatives-analysis/home?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

.

Recently noticed the stop on NW Expressway near Classen is on an "island". There seems to be no sidewalks or anything connecting to it, I am guessing that is coming. This is across from that McDonalds and Chik Fil A.

^

There is a sidewalk that leads from Blackwelder to the new stop.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/blackwelder071423a.jpg

No idea how I didn't notice that. Thanks for the quick clarification Pete!

^

There is a sidewalk that leads from Blackwelder to the new stop.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/blackwelder071423a.jpg

I've been wondering about the usefulness of that stop recently, but maybe it'll help jumpstart development on that block. I seem to recall being told a while back that someone has been acquiring the land on that overall corner of NW Expressway and Classen.

I've been wondering about the usefulness of that stop recently, but maybe it'll help jumpstart development on that block. I seem to recall being told a while back that someone has been acquiring the land on that overall corner of NW Expressway and Classen.

Yes, it's in this thread: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=46858

It's unfortunate the city does not seem to be fixing the Blackwelder/NW Expressway intersection as part of this project. Blackwelder needs a left turn lane, the road needs to be widened and curbed for about 500ft, and signal improvements are needed. The stretch of NW Expressway from I-44 to Classen could use some traffic calming elements too.

Yeah, the intersection of Blackwelder and NW Expressway needs help. I live in the neighborhood and tried to get on Expressway earlier and the traffic was backed up to 47th St, with more trying to leave OnCue, Scooters, and turning right from 49th St. And people turning left onto Expressway both ways end up almost hitting each other all the time.

Schedule released: https://www.facebook.com/100076080880113/posts/pfbid02489okhn73xnj92gukWedotC2ouvYVMRBHoB6xfLaEQi rMcZZd51oQphhGAP9cMvNl/?mibextid=cr9u03

JUST 12 minute headways during peak hours? This is seeming more and more like the local bus service OKC should have rather than true BRT (which should have 5 min or less). Not saying OKC should have 5 min headways but def should be less than 10 min.

Love the 2 am weekends, but again - this seems like local night but rather than BRT.

JUST 12 minute headways during peak hours? This is seeming more and more like the local bus service OKC should have rather than true BRT (which should have 5 min or less). Not saying OKC should have 5 min headways but def should be less than 10 min.

Love the 2 am weekends, but again - this seems like local night but rather than BRT.

This is what I said months ago. My hometown has many bus lines with ~12 min (or better) service, at least at certain times of day, but none of which are referred to as rapid transit. It's just the standard for how buses should run. It'll still be the best bus option in OKC by far, but yeah... the bar is low.

This project like the streetcar is a joke. I have little to no hope for actual, useful mass transit in OKC for the foreseeable future. Maybe the RTA will operate better.

This project like the streetcar is a joke. I have little to no hope for actual, useful mass transit in OKC for the foreseeable future. Maybe the RTA will operate better.

It's a population density wait game at this point. We need to add about 250k residents between 240/LHP/Kilpatrick/235. Until then, it's going to be a struggle to justify the costs. I'd say we're 20-30 years away from that, so I think the only real value an RTA is going to provide at this point is kicking off the Edmond to Norman commuter rail which we need to have to give us a better understanding of what we really need to invest in 35/235 moving forward.

December 4th is the official launch of the NW line.

https://freepressokc.com/okc-nw-bus-rapid-transit-line-to-start-service-dec-4/

way to go, miss all of the fall to launch at the beginning of winter. ....

way to go, miss all of the fall to launch at the beginning of winter. ....

I think it makes sense given the current status of construction. Backing up from the Dec. 4th launch date, there is an entire month for testing, so that starts Nov. 4th. That means the city has about six weeks to finish the platforms at 23rd and Classen, fix the intersection at Expressway/Penn, and finish the work at the two platforms in the CBD. Plus they need to install the remaining electric infrastructure, like the signal lights and signs. Seems reasonable.

Something I noticed during the construction phase is that the city replaced a lot of underground water infrastructure when they built these platforms. I think coordinating that utility work - which will prevent them from coming back and tearing it all up in the future - was well worth the extra two months.

One thing that has bewildered me... Why has the City put up these big barriers at the BRT stops?

Wouldn't a sign indicating "Service coming soon" or something similar along with the traffic cones serve the same purpose?

What are they safeguarding against?

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/brt0922123a.jpg

^^^ Idiots driving up on them? Of course, not sure what's going to stop that once they're open...

I agree a "Coming Soon" sign would work, but since some of these are so close to existing stops or taking the place of them entirely, I think the city is just trying to make it 100% clear it's not an active stop. Some of the stops were/are still in various phases of construction too, with bolts sticking up out of the ground.

While it is ultimately up to the contractor & sub contractor for their traffic control methods, they will use huge barriers to keep accidental ADA use from happening. A blind person or in a wheel chair can slip past cones (yes it's happened) . The safety meetings when this was decided must of been an interesting. Could of be a bunch of factors for the decision.

Is this new information? https://twitter.com/RapidBrt/status/1714296493903859862


Say "Hi!" to Oklahoma City's first bus lanes!

Segments of NW Expressway & Classen Blvd. will be reserved for @EMBARKOK (https://twitter.com/EMBARKOK) buses & motorists making right turns, preserving access to businesses, neighborhoods, and cross streets. https://loom.ly/TsgHKmk

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8pnEp0XUAE9bsm?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Will be curious how this is enforced. Have little/no BRT experience - will the street be painted / extensive signage be used to identify the BRT lane?

While it is ultimately up to the contractor & sub contractor for their traffic control methods, they will use huge barriers to keep accidental ADA use from happening. A blind person or in a wheel chair can slip past cones (yes it's happened) . The safety meetings when this was decided must of been an interesting. Could of be a bunch of factors for the decision.

this is 100% an embark decision they did the same stupid things for the street car stops .. (magically once service starts the "risk" doesn't matter anymore"

Are they striping the lane red? Putting up signs? What a stupid move to do at the last moment and not give anyone a heads up.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In some areas, at least along Classen and a bit up NW Highway, the lane already has "BUS" stenciled in giant white letters every so often in the lane itself. Not sure about signage; I haven't seen any to date.

You know, I think I noticed that while driving south on Classen on Sunday but didn't think anything of it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In some areas, at least along Classen and a bit up NW Highway, the lane already has "BUS" stenciled in giant white letters every so often in the lane itself. Not sure about signage; I haven't seen any to date.
It would be nice if they painted the entire lane red with a double solid stripe and right turn only lane signs.

I'm legitimately surprised they're going this route, but doing so during the main commuting hours is a great compromise and I'm very glad they're having the courage to do it. I've also seen "BUS" painted in the lane, but I think it's going to take a lot more than that to enforce this.

So they posted that the lanes are for bus and right turning vehicles only. Seems pretty un-enforceable.

Been seeing a ton of buses out testing driving the past week—pretty much every time I'm on Classen. Pretty cool to see. They have purple (or blacklight?) lights on inside the bus at night.

Been seeing a ton of buses out testing driving the past week—pretty much every time I'm on Classen. Pretty cool to see. They have purple (or blacklight?) lights on inside the bus at night.

Yeah, I saw one stuck behind a bunch of people at the NWX/Classen interchange lol. I really wanted to stop and see how long it took for that turn. I'll get to see it regularly though as I hit that intersection between 15 and 30 times per week.

I really wish they would build a NBClassen to WBNWHiway flyover.

I really wish they would build a NBClassen to WBNWHiway flyover.

Why? So you can get stuck at any of the 3 lights before Penn?

The intersection functions just fine and is mostly pretty easy to get through. They could probably improve light timing during evening rush hour in general. From NW 23rd/Classes all the way to Villa and NWX they could stand to Time the lights. We'll see how the BRT affects it all though.

Why? So you can get stuck at any of the 3 lights before Penn?

The intersection functions just fine and is mostly pretty easy to get through. They could probably improve light timing during evening rush hour in general. From NW 23rd/Classes all the way to Villa and NWX they could stand to Time the lights. We'll see how the BRT affects it all though.

(Plupan thinking) Realistically, those 3 lights should be eliminated, too. Especially if, somehow, the l-44/NW Hiway interchange is rebuilt, design nonstop NW Hiway lanes past Pennsylvania.

Saw a new sign on SB Classen just south of 23rd regarding the bus only lanes from 6-9 a.m. and 4-7 p.m.

It most likely will never happen, but the NW Expressway and 39th St west of I44 should be controlled access highways

At the very least they need to build interchanges at Penn and Classen/NWE to move cars better. It would become much more efficient. The that Northwest Expressway is called an Expressway is a joke. It should have any traffic signals at all.

Nm

It most likely will never happen, but the NW Expressway and 39th St west of I44 should be controlled access highways
39th would never happen because there is not enough ROW.

For NWX, what would be your plan/concessions for the businesses?

I just don't think traffic is bad enough to warrant this. In 20 years of the Grand Loop grows 40%+ in population and the employment count in the area jumps 60%, I could see maybe an elevated turnpike that takes you from May and/or LHP to Council or County Line with no stoplights, but if Houston didn't do anything like that with Westheimer, I don't think OKC is going to address NWX in the next 40 years.

Been seeing a ton of buses out testing driving the past week—pretty much every time I'm on Classen. Pretty cool to see. They have purple (or blacklight?) lights on inside the bus at night.

Does any know the expected time to ride from classen to Northwest expressway?

Wasn't NW Expressway more formally turned over to the city in the last few years? It becoming more of a controlled access highway is the opposite of what seems likely.

Wasn't NW Expressway more formally turned over to the city in the last few years? It becoming more of a controlled access highway is the opposite of what seems likely.

Agreed, and in any case the time where there was any real possibility of making it a controlled access highway was literally decades ago. Maybe they can do something like US-60 between I-17 and AZ-303 in the Phoenix Metro.

Wasn't NW Expressway more formally turned over to the city in the last few years? It becoming more of a controlled access highway is the opposite of what seems likely.
If it hasn’t already it will be.

Unfortunately, IMHO, yes it is becoming less and less of a controlled access facility. In my OKC plans it would be a full freeway from I-44 to Denver. Traffic would disperse and then depending on routing a southeast connection would carry the the same interstate designation to Texarkana to connect with I-20 and I-49.

Realizing of course this will likely not happen(at least the OKC portion) it would be nice to see some intersections converted to interchanges. Better for all modes of transit. Hell, I wouldn’t mind tolling the overpasses for cars to fund free BRT. My plans would also have busses in their own dedicated lane 24/7 similar to Bogota or Buenos Aires bus highways.

Edit: I-30 not I-20 my apologies.

They should just turn every major intersection on NW Exwy into large roundabouts. Same for 39th, Classen, Shields to 44th, and Lincoln through the OU Medical District.

They should just turn every major intersection on NW Exwy into large roundabouts. Same for 39th, Classen, Shields to 44th, and Lincoln through the OU Medical District.

We'll, that would certainly force the residents of OKC to learn how to use them lolol!!!

If it hasn’t already it will be.

Unfortunately, IMHO, yes it is becoming less and less of a controlled access facility. In my OKC plans it would be a full freeway from I-44 to Denver. Traffic would disperse and then depending on routing a southeast connection would carry the the same interstate designation to Texarkana to connect with I-20 and I-49.

Realizing of course this will likely not happen(at least the OKC portion) it would be nice to see some intersections converted to interchanges. Better for all modes of transit. Hell, I wouldn’t mind tolling the overpasses for cars to fund free BRT. My plans would also have busses in their own dedicated lane 24/7 similar to Bogota or Buenos Aires bus highways.

Edit: I-30 not I-20 my apologies.

W
Were that to ever come to pass, it just needs to make it to the Turnpike. Overall, traffic on NWX should be able to be mitigated with better light management during rush hour. It's still easily 3 min miles on average and unless there's some major accident or construction, it never exceeds 5 minute miles. Portland to Rockwell is the worst stretch but that's also because there is a lot of local traffic in those areas.

39th would never happen because there is not enough ROW.


I just don't think traffic is bad enough to warrant this. In 20 years of the Grand Loop grows 40%+ in population and the employment count in the area jumps 60%, I could see maybe an elevated turnpike that takes you from May and/or LHP to Council or County Line with no stoplights, but if Houston didn't do anything like that with Westheimer, I don't think OKC is going to address NWX in the next 40 years.

Houston built the Westpark Tollway 1/2 mile south of Westheimer to improve traffic flow.

Houston built the Westpark Tollway 1/2 mile south of Westheimer to improve traffic flow.

Right, but they didn't turn Westheimer into controlled access was the point.

The long term answer to this will just a widening LHP to 4 lanes and creating a flyover for NB LHP to WB Kilpatrick, and if traffic gets bad enough, creating HOV or Toll lanes for LHP to get you to Kilpatrick quickly.

But again, we're a pretty major boom in population away from that being needed. Until average times are closer to 4 min miles and peak times well north of 5 min miles, we're nowhere close to needing to take this kind of action. NWX could widen to 8 lanes if necessary.