traffic signal priority

So they're going to staff that for BRT but not streetcar? Wouldn't they be cross-trained and able to support both systems?

We got a NW BRT update

Definitely no dedicated lanes,

so not BRT really at all

so not BRT really at all

Nope. And as much as I wish we were getting a genuine BRT, I can't blame them for not wanting to dedicate lanes to buses that are only going to run at 10-15 minute frequencies. If we had a system like Bogota with 2-3 min frequencies, dedicated lanes would absolutely make more sense. I generally don't have much sympathy for those who complain about the need for more space for cars, but can you imagine the outcry if 2 lanes of Classen and NW Expwy had to sit empty with a bus only using it 4 times an hour? It's also surprising to hear there aren't (weren't?) dedicated TSP folks for the streetcar. Sigh. That said I'm excited to see the platforms as I'll be just a few blocks from one. I'm skeptical any sort of "park-and-ride" system for a bus is going to have much if any success, but I'd love to be proven wrong..

Bus Route Transit

I presume they would share TSP folks with streetcar, but that wasn't specified.

Also, the vendor assures us this is still BRT. They're doing like 50 BRTs around the country and showed the primary 3 or 4 types, of which ours was one type (relying on tech and queue jumps).

Just getting buses running up Classen and NW Expressway will be a big improvement. It’s absurd that a city of this size doesn’t currently have a single bus route along its busiest non-freeway thoroughfare.

https://twitter.com/RapidBrt/status/1526637934203572224



Join us for an @EMBARKok Transit Vehicle Showcase and new RAPID Bus Rapid Transit Vehicle Reveal!

Event is at the OKC Convention Center in Exhibit Hall D on Thurs., May 26 from 1pm - 3pm.

Visit http://embarkok.com/brt for more #RAPIDbrt project details

I live in Yukon, but just took a job in Del City. The closest bus stop to my office is about a mile walk and I would have to drive to the Reno Mini Hub and park my vehicle in a random parking lot, not a true "park-n-ride" lot. I would be game for a Park-n-Ride lot anywhere close to Yukon. And then if I could get a faster bus into the central transfer station it might be enough to get me to start taking the bus.

Not that it's something you'd want to do everyday, but depending on where you live in Yukon and where in Del City you're going, it might be pretty doable by bike. There's that newish trail in Yukon that connects to Overholser, so you could take that to the west trail to the river trail. By the end of the the year the river trail will connect to 4th street, which you could take to Del City.

Not that it's something you'd want to do everyday, but depending on where you live in Yukon and where in Del City you're going, it might be pretty doable by bike. There's that newish trail in Yukon that connects to Overholser, so you could take that to the west trail to the river trail. By the end of the the year the river trail will connect to 4th street, which you could take to Del City.

I have looked at this route, if I were more comfortable riding long distance it may be an option. Though I don't have a shower at the office to hose down upon arrival. Haha.

I'd be open to meeting you in Yukon some weekend and test riding the route if it would help you be comfortable with it.

I'd be open to meeting you in Yukon some weekend and test riding the route if it would help you be comfortable with it.

Thanks, but I was meaning with biking in general. I do have a road bike, but it probably needs a little TLC to be road-worthy again, plus I have definitely gotten outta shape since the pandemic came along...

Get started. Let me know when you're ready.

Paddy - Please send your concerns to Embark and the city. They need to hear from the population to see what the trends are for commuting and evaluate if they're meeting our needs. You may not be in the Embark district living in Yukon but they do need to hear that people living in Yukon do commute to downtown and omg - MWC/Del City/Tinker (in case they didn't notice). Therefore, they would then conclude they're significantly behind the times with regard to offering commute options to Yukon, even just including a park n ride lot near the West Transfer station.

Hard to believe OKC doesn't already have commuter bus running at least during rush hours from El Reno/Yukon to downtown, Edmond to downtown, Norman/Moore to downtown, and Tinker/MWC to downtown; with a suburban transit center or Park N ride (or both) at the suburb indicated. ... And no I'm not talking about running 40' buses as "Commuter Bus" (like they're going to be doing as "BRT" lite); but anything with those routing would at least be a good, quick start. Particularly with high gas prices and upcoming Commuter Rail, why isn't commuter bus even being mentioned?

Hard to believe OKC doesn't already have commuter bus running at least during rush hours from El Reno/Yukon to downtown, Edmond to downtown, Norman/Moore to downtown, and Tinker/MWC to downtown; with a suburban transit center or Park N ride (or both) at the suburb indicated. ... And no I'm not talking about running 40' buses as "Commuter Bus" (like they're going to be doing as "BRT" lite); but anything with those routing would at least be a good, quick start. Particularly with high gas prices and upcoming Commuter Rail, why isn't commuter bus even being mentioned?


All parties have to be willing. Yukon wasn't willing to be part of the RTA, what makes you think they would be willing to do a commuter bus? IMO it would be better if paddy would apply pressure to Yukon, because I think OKC would be IN.

There's already a commuter bus route between OKC/Norman during rush hours (Embark operated route 24)
There's already a commuter bus route between OKC/Edmond during rush hours (Edmond CityLink operated route 100x)
There's not anything to Tinker but they did try it many years ago though it failed due to lack of use (not sure if it's still there, but when I last worked at building 3001 back in 2012, there was a faded Metro Bus sign [so pre-Embark] on the fence by the flagpole so I called them to see what the deal was, how could I take that bus, but they said it was discontinued due to lack of use).

^^^ IIRC, Yukon is now interested and is in talks with the RTA to join. The mayor of Midwest City felt it wasn’t in the city’s best interest at the time and will revisit the idea in the future.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CeB6rcnrG3N/

Can't believe neither the rapid social or embark social have deets, but both the mayor and James posted pics from the reveal of the BRT bus.

Picture by the Mayor: https://twitter.com/davidfholt/status/1529871548760395776

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTsyD8IX0AEZQEk?format=jpg&name=large

Ben Felder has some pictures as well: https://twitter.com/benfelder_okc/status/1529883572546555906

Thanks didn't see Ben's post

Transit authority plans to link downtown, Tinker

East route that would link downtown Oklahoma City with Del City and Tinker Air Force Base could likely start with bus rapid transit, with the service to connect either Capitol Hill or the future Okana resort along the Oklahoma River.

The RTA of Central Oklahoma is in negotiations with the BNSF Railway to establish a commuter rail line connecting Edmond, Oklahoma City, Moore and Norman.

There is a funding source in the Biden infrastructure bill: https://www.transit.dot.gov/BIL

A fast ride between downtown OKC and Tinker eyed as part of Regional Transit Authority

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2022/05/29/bus-rapid-transit-could-connect-downtown-okc-tinker-air-force-base/9894710002/

This is BRT to start with, maybe light rail later.

IMO doing 29th as BRT vs using the existing rail line is great because then you touch Del City as well as MWC. Eastern in the beginning would be better for Okana.

If we can get the funding worked out; hopefully federal dollars to do both (1 Buses then 2 rail); replace current buses, chart the route to the Capitol Hill area (test ridership demand) as well as the Tinker AFB (Del City to Midwest City route using the 29th Street bus route).

Get the road infrastructure worked out to OKANA, secure those federal funds.

Well, there is that money the state wants to use for the turnpike. That could in theory be spent on turnpike repairs plus rail / brt lines in OKC and Tulsa metro areas...

https://img.masstransitmag.com/files/base/cygnus/mass/image/2022/05/16x9/RAPID_bus_brandingevent.6290e7d29ecbd.png?auto=for mat,compress&w=500&h=281&fit=clip

Officials with EMBARK and Oklahoma City unveiled the design of RAPID's bus rapid transit vehicle on Thursday.

The first RAPID line is planned to have 32 stops and stretch 9.5 miles each way and will integrate with the larger EMBARK transit network.--KOKH 25 Oklahoma City.

looks no different from an existing Embark bus other than the paint and logo. ..

Way to go there. ..

[QUOTE=HOT ROD;1204952]looks no different from an existing Embark bus other than the paint and logo. ..

Way to go there. ..[/QUOTE
Why would you want them to look substantially different?

looks no different from an existing Embark bus other than the paint and logo. ..

Way to go there. ..
Why would you want them to look substantially different?

Keep some confused riders from getting on the wrong bus.

looks no different from an existing Embark bus other than the paint and logo. ..

Way to go there. ..

Is it usual to have different types of buses on BRT routes? This makes sense in my mind to keep maintenance costs in check by having the same type of bus throughout the fleet. I like the BRT color scheme over the regular Embark scheme.

Is it usual to have different types of buses on BRT routes? This makes sense in my mind to keep maintenance costs in check by having the same type of bus throughout the fleet. I like the BRT color scheme over the regular Embark scheme.

actual BRT (which OKC's is not) sometimes has larger capacity busses ..

https://www.denvergov.org/files/assets/public/doti/images/projects/colfax-brt/center-running-brt-2021.jpg

what BRT is

In many cities the buses used for BRTs are articulated.

In many cities the buses used for BRTs are articulated.
And have dedicated lanes, and signal priority/grade separation at intersections, and 5-8 minute headways, and straight direct paths, but yeah other than all of that. . .

Yeah, I was just responding to the question specifically asking if most BRTs used specialized equipment

Just thought I would drop in to say, "GO BRT!" And also, "F having one single penny of infrastructure spending going to the turnpike." :)

OKC is better off served by freeways than mass transit.

OKC is better off served by freeways than mass transit.

We already have plenty of freeways. Your comment is devoid of context and borderline asinine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K_SB3VQhb8

OKC is better off served by freeways than mass transit.

I'm sure the folks here who may not be able to afford cars might have a different perspective. :rolleyes:

There will be a groundbreaking ceremony for this project on June 28th at 9 AM on the SW corner of Classen and NW 23rd.

Weird. I glanced at all the social media for the Rapid BRT and haven't seen a single thing about it. Wonder why it isn't more widely advertised.

17539

If you're signed up for Embark email newsletter updates, they sent out a notice a week ago, but agree, it should have been more widely stated on their social as well, considering it's tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/RapidBrt/status/1546899699130564608


RAPID buses will be equipped with (TSP) AKA Transit Signal Priority at 38 intersections - including Penn & NW Expressway.

How does it work? Intelligent traffic light systems hold green lights longer for BRT buses to help ensure RAPID and on-time trips.

Construction Update Email from 7/15
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OZHfQupB6SVjgnvIFv0XT5psWY6Sa3CT/

How is it that Edmond City link buses are all free including the 100x route to OUHSC but BRT won't be free? Don't property taxes go towards public transit?

How is it that Edmond City link buses are all free including the 100x route to OUHSC but BRT won't be free? Don't property taxes go towards public transit?
Property taxes have traditionally been the main source of revenue for local governments, though this has been less true in Oklahoma. Property taxes are the main source of non-grant revenue for school districts, counties, and career-tech systems. Cities may use property taxes only to pay the debt on bonds approved by voters. Under the Oklahoma Constitution, property tax rates are limited for each government and purpose, and most rate increases within those limits require a vote of the people.
https://okpolicy.org/resources/online-budget-guide/revenues/an-overview-of-our-tax-system/oklahomas-major-taxes/property-tax/

So then how do other cities get free public transit? In most resort towns, free buses are subsidized by hotels motel tax on tourists, but I don't think anyone considers Edmond or OKC a resort town.

other cities prioritize transit which is easier for them to do because they don't need to fund as much as OKC, which the city itself funds just about EVERY public amenity enjoyed by this metro area. It's not fair and so OKC can only allocate so much for transit - which is already far more than all other metro cities combined by a long shot. OKC can't make everything free, transit less so.

This is why I'm arguing for OKC to get out of the transit business (except streetcar) and promote EMBARK to a regional government agency (say for instance, ACOG's RTA). They could get funding via property taxes, gas taxes, and other sources with a regional emphasis (vs just OKC funding just about the entire metro on a portion of its sales tax). The state would have to make some mods for this to happen, but this is how it is in most large cities not NY and CHI. Here in Seattle, the County funds local transit and we created a RTD named Sound Transit which has bonding, property, and gas tax authority in a regional prospective. I believe King County Metro (Seattle's bus company) is property tax only but I could be wrong. The City of Seattle only funds its Streetcars and the Seattle Monorail (if you call that transit).

OKC should do similar, get out of the regional transit business and let the regional government do it - OKC would still be the principal city with the most service since it will still be the primary contributor and is the focal city of the metro but if it were regional there'd be much better opportunity for transit throughout the metro and connecting to downtown OKC. Then, OKC could consider it's streetcar a free service (ala Kansas City's) at least until it can be expanded into the neighborhoods beyond downtown.

Yesterday, I noticed a BRT stop almost complete on Classen, the first one I've seen.

The permits have been filed for the rest and we should start seeing them pop up along the route.

Yesterday, I noticed a BRT stop almost complete on Classen, the first one I've seen.

The permits have been filed for the rest and we should start seeing them pop up along the route.

2 new stops are almost complete on each side of 63rd Street at Meridian.

I do hope that the city will further invest in mass transit. If anything, the reliance of vehicular travel will drastically decrease, making pedestrian traffic safer and reducing gridlock. If we don't invest in this opportunity now, we will look like Boston in about 10 years.

I'm sure you can ask anyone from that area, the Big Dig managed to give the city back to it's citizens, but the traffic is still an abysmal nightmare with their relatively weak mass transit system.

I do hope that the city will further invest in mass transit. If anything, the reliance of vehicular travel will drastically decrease, making pedestrian traffic safer and reducing gridlock. If we don't invest in this opportunity now, we will look like Boston in about 10 years.

I'm sure you can ask anyone from that area, the Big Dig managed to give the city back to it's citizens, but the traffic is still an abysmal nightmare with their relatively weak mass transit system.

OKC "rush hour" is the best rush hour out of any large city I have lived in. The amount of highways and tolls is amazing and the city being built on a grid with zero water on either side and 1.13k people per square mile.

Boston is a mess and does not have a grid system and water on one side of the entire city plus it has 14K people per square mile, OKC will never be like boston.

OKC was built for automobiles. The worst city for traffic I have lived in was Seattle having water on both sides of it and 8.75K people per square mile

Press release:

****************

MAPS 4 seeks public input for Bus Rapid Transit study
12/22/2022

The City of Oklahoma City is inviting residents to weigh in on advanced transit options in person and by taking an online survey at MAPS4BRT.com. MAPS 4 includes $61 million to build two additional Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) lines in South and Northeast Oklahoma City.

BRT is a high-quality, bus-based transit service that operates similar to light rail. To achieve rapid service, BRT may include dedicated traffic lanes, traffic signal prioritization (TSP), and fewer stops with elevated platforms with enhanced stations. Combined, these characteristics allow BRT lines to minimize traffic delays and maximize service quality – making BRT an ideal alternative to traveling during high traffic times of day in a single occupant vehicle.

MAPS 4 launched a map survey and a written survey to inform the planning process to gain a high-level understanding of community transportation needs in South and Northeast OKC. Both surveys are available in English and Spanish.

Results from the survey will help determine future BRT corridors based on commuter corridors planned by the Regional Transportation Authority of Central Oklahoma, the RAPID NW BRT line currently under construction by EMBARK, flow of traffic on major street arterials, travel time, and key destinations. Recommendations will be informed by public input gathered from survey results, pop-up events and public meetings.

Two public open house meetings will be held in January 2023. Spanish-speaking interpreters will be available:

Tuesday, Jan. 24 from 4:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. at Metro Tech Springlake Campus, Room H (1900 Springlake Dr. Oklahoma City, OK 73111) - Location is served by bus routes 3 and 22
Thursday, Jan. 26 from 4:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. at Capitol Hill Library, Room 2 (327 SW 27th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73109) - Location is served by bus routes 11, 14, and 40
The project budget for MAPS 4 Transit is $97 million, with $67 million for advanced transit options including BRT, park-and-ride facilities and micro transit. Additionally, the Transit project includes planned growth, bus stop improvements and enhanced EMBARK bus service.

“The goal for the MAPS 4 BRT Alternatives Analysis is to understand the community’s priorities and values to gain insight into our transportation needs and involve the public in the process of creating a more connected community,” MAPS 4 Program Manager David Todd said. “Bus Rapid Transit can help address gaps in our public transit system and connecting key destinations in Oklahoma City with a higher level of transit service. This will better the lives of our residents and visitors by improving economic development and commuter access, so we are looking forward to gathering input and moving forward with the project.”

Residents can stay up to date on the MAPS 4 Transit project at okc.gov/maps4. Learn more about BRT and take the survey at MAPS4BRT.com.

They just posted this timeline to their social media accounts:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/brt010423a.jpg

the south BRT has so much potential. I really hope they put it down Walker on a dedicated ROW. If walker was closed off to cars they could easily take other roads to get where they need to.

the south BRT has so much potential. I really hope they put it down Walker on a dedicated ROW. If walker was closed off to cars they could easily take other roads to get where they need to.

all of the business' on walker might have a different opinion

all of the business' on walker might have a different opinion

All of the business on Walker would disagree that cars could easily take other roads to get where they need to?

the south BRT has so much potential. I really hope they put it down Walker on a dedicated ROW. If walker was closed off to cars they could easily take other roads to get where they need to.

You might already be thinking this given your apparent familiarity with transit, but I feel like it would need to start out with certain times/days as some iteration of an express bus at peak ridership times before it would be considered as a dedicated busway thoroughfare. I do think Walker is probably the most ready to adapt to that and given the plaza going in on Harvey between 24th and 25th, south side leadership has shown it is willing and looking to make the area for the community to take pride in being part of.

All of the business on Walker would disagree that cars could easily take other roads to get where they need to?

they would not be ok with the form of transit that 99% of their customers use being banned from their street ..

All of the business on Walker would disagree that cars could easily take other roads to get where they need to?

Yeah, going 100 to 0 on cars is not have you get transit up and running. It's how you get so much backlash, it is counterproductive.

Will any of the brt lines currently being planned be easily upgradable to lrt in the future? Or will the lines other than the north west line use EV busses? This actually isn't a bad start but it seems like it was built for 2005 instead of 2025.

Will any of the brt lines currently being planned be easily upgradable to lrt in the future? Or will the lines other than the north west line use EV busses? This actually isn't a bad start but it seems like it was built for 2005 instead of 2025.

no because none of them are true BRT ie they don't have their own lanes .. (except for a stops and some intersections)