Here is an article about a new expansion to the museum. Nothing earth-shattering, but I know a lot of tourists go to the museum.

https://newsok.com/article/5616164/national-cowboy-museum-breaking-ground-on-15-million-educational-expansion-called-liichokoshkomo

This is good! I hope the new Native American Museum is just as good in it's own right. The two would be an interesting set of educational facilities to have so close together.

The last time I went to the museum I found it more miseducational than educational. It basically just sold old Cowboy and Indian Western myths. That's in addition to one of the docents interrupting me and an Indigenous scholar (who traveled to Oklahoma) to claim Indian casinos are "Red Man's revenge" to steal White people's money. Ugh. It made quite an impression on both of us as you'd expect.

Now, in this docent incident the museum at least responded that that was unacceptable after we lodged a complaint, and I know the museum has hired some high quality educators.... but can anyone speak to the quality of the museum? I want someone to give me a good enough reason to go back. I typically love museums with any history.

The last time I went to the museum I found it more miseducational than educational. It basically just sold old Cowboy and Indian Western myths.

I've really enjoyed the various times I've been to the museum. I would be interested to know what types of materials they have are myths. Thanks.

I've really enjoyed the various times I've been to the museum. I would be interested to know what types of materials they have are myths. Thanks.

From my memory, there's actually a lot of Cowboy and Western TV paraphenalia. While TV has a history of its own, I don't remember seeing much information discussing how historically inaccurate Westerns were. A lot of those narratives are built on the myth of individual (White) Cowboy bringing justice and law to the West. Really the only Indigenous items were some quilts, including a 9/11 one, back in a corner of the museum. Moreover, the very first thing you see is the huge statue of a defeated Indian slumped over on a horse. A lot of crappy textbooks tell Indigenous histories as the histories of defeated peoples (by 1900) too. Of course, that's not the stories Indigenous nations tell as they are still sovereign nations to this day and that's a very narrow, Western view of history. In general, that's the type of narrative the museum seemed to tell. Give An Indigenous Peoples History (http://www.beacon.org/An-Indigenous-Peoples-History-of-the-United-States-P1164.aspx) by Oklahoman Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz a read and see how the museum narrative matches up with Indigenous histories, which are obviously a huge part of any "Western" history. (BTW, the very name "Western" History is a White settler point of view as most Indigenous nations weren't part of some "Manifest Destiny" moving westward).

That's all from memory and also from two years ago. I am not at all claiming that's everything, but that's the distinct impression the museum left me with when I last visited. Maybe things have changed. I don't know.

Are you talking about "End of the trail"?

https://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2013/the-american-west-in-bronze/blog/posts/end-of-the-trail

I’ve gotten in trouble there for carrying a toddler on my shoulders because of “insurance reasons” and we were not allowed to drink the drinks they sold us. It feels like a place that doesn’t know what it actually wants to be sometimes.

The $15 million improvements expansion for the museum will add to the amenities for children of patrons who visit the museum. You ever drag kids along; you're ready for fine dining like a steak & wine while they savor for a hamburger, soda pop, french fries or macaroni & cheese.

Persimmon Hill is a nice scenic setting as you round the historic Route 66 drive through the red clay hills & deep fork basin, a beautiful site; someone should invest in some hotels in the Adventure District; especially with the upcoming expansion of WCWS softball stadium and the OKC Zoo properties. OKC wants to solidify itself in the mold of a big league city; you've got to improve other areas to make our city more attractive throughout.

I’ve gotten in trouble there for carrying a toddler on my shoulders because of “insurance reasons” and we were not allowed to drink the drinks they sold us. It feels like a place that doesn’t know what it actually wants to be sometimes.
What you mean they wouldn't allow you to drink purchased drinks? You make a purchase and then have to get someone's approval to consume said purchase?

Maybe they didn't want you to drink your drink while carrying a toddler on your shoulders. :)

Are you talking about "End of the trail"?

https://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2013/the-american-west-in-bronze/blog/posts/end-of-the-trail

Good article. I never thought that statue was intended to celebrate the Native Americans’ defeat but that it was more of a sad commentary on it.

What you mean they wouldn't allow you to drink purchased drinks? You make a purchase and then have to get someone's approval to consume said purchase?

We got in trouble for drinking our bottled drinks in other areas of the museum. I didn’t recall any signage restricting you from taking a drink from your bottle of Diet Coke in random places.

We still take out of town guests there if they are into the Cowboy legacy of things, but I think it is just weirdly run. It still feels more like it’s “just” a hall of fame celebrating Cowboys heritage that manages to get their hands on some museum pieces and now tries to double dip as “western heritage museum”.

We got in trouble for drinking our bottled drinks in other areas of the museum. I didn’t recall any signage restricting you from taking a drink from your bottle of Diet Coke in random places.

We still take out of town guests there if they are into the Cowboy legacy of things, but I think it is just weirdly run. It still feels more like it’s “just” a hall of fame celebrating Cowboys heritage that manages to get their hands on some museum pieces and now tries to double dip as “western heritage museum”.

I'm there often for events, I know they have a sign just as you are leaving the Museum Cafe area that says No Food or Drink beyond this point. When there is an event in Prosperity Junction (The Western town), they will set up signs at the exits so you don't take your glasses and plates out into the rest of the museum.

Seems like most of what I have seen on this thread are generational differences. Younger commenters appear to have issues with product, presentation and management; and older commenters think it works pretty well as is?

The last time I went to the museum I found it more miseducational than educational. It basically just sold old Cowboy and Indian Western myths. That's in addition to one of the docents interrupting me and an Indigenous scholar (who traveled to Oklahoma) to claim Indian casinos are "Red Man's revenge" to steal White people's money. Ugh. It made quite an impression on both of us as you'd expect.

Now, in this docent incident the museum at least responded that that was unacceptable after we lodged a complaint, and I know the museum has hired some high quality educators.... but can anyone speak to the quality of the museum? I want someone to give me a good enough reason to go back. I typically love museums with any history.

What's wrong with a museum or exhibits that tell a story from the point of view of the settlers? Especially seeing as how ~97% of Oklahoma Citians are not American Indian?

You can have a museum from the point of view of someone, while also acknowledging facts and when those points were wrong.

I went to the Documentation Center museum in Nürnberg, which does just that in a stunning fashion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentation_Center_Nazi_Party_Rally_Grounds

A Cowboy Hall of Fame should be free to glorify Cowboys and highlight their impact on our culture. A Western Heritage Museum should educate on the impact the Cowboy and western heritage had, and continues to have, on our culture, including both positive and negative aspects. A museum has a responsibility to educate on the subject it is covering, and to do so comprehensively. And I think that this is an area where the history of being a Hall of Fame (to celebrate a subject) has infiltrated the current mission of a museum (to educate on a subject).

Edit: no, I do not equate Cowboys and white settlers with Nazis. I was just using it as a good example of covering a subject in all aspects.

From my memory, there's actually a lot of Cowboy and Western TV paraphenalia. While TV has a history of its own, I don't remember seeing much information discussing how historically inaccurate Westerns were. A lot of those narratives are built on the myth of individual (White) Cowboy bringing justice and law to the West. Really the only Indigenous items were some quilts, including a 9/11 one, back in a corner of the museum. Moreover, the very first thing you see is the huge statue of a defeated Indian slumped over on a horse. A lot of crappy textbooks tell Indigenous histories as the histories of defeated peoples (by 1900) too. Of course, that's not the stories Indigenous nations tell as they are still sovereign nations to this day and that's a very narrow, Western view of history. In general, that's the type of narrative the museum seemed to tell. Give An Indigenous Peoples History (http://www.beacon.org/An-Indigenous-Peoples-History-of-the-United-States-P1164.aspx) by Oklahoman Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz a read and see how the museum narrative matches up with Indigenous histories, which are obviously a huge part of any "Western" history. (BTW, the very name "Western" History is a White settler point of view as most Indigenous nations weren't part of some "Manifest Destiny" moving westward).

That's all from memory and also from two years ago. I am not at all claiming that's everything, but that's the distinct impression the museum left me with when I last visited. Maybe things have changed. I don't know.

I gotchya. I appreciate your impression. I hadn't thought of it in those ways. Take care,

Reopening May 18th:

https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/press-release-a-message-from-national-cowboy-and-western-heritage-museumpresident-natalie-shirley/Content?oid=7274662&fbclid=IwAR280asdRAeO8xEfdSHcKzsIv5tRIxMQG_eY-1-swuoy-cDQzU3jg4zPwVw

Plans have been filed to build a parking structure into the side of the hill on the east side of the property:


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That's a fairly creative use of that hill.

Does that mean they’ll expand onto the current lots?

I suspect that parking structure is mainly to take care of special events being held there. I've never seen a lack of parking availability when just visiting the museum.

^^^^^^^^
Seems like that amount of investment would only be occurring if they intended to make additional investment elsewhere. I’m with PluPan; this could be a harbinger of future expansion.

This is going to make it so much easier when they have the Chuckwagon feed.

Too bad that will take out a lot of natural growth on that hillside. Won't be as nice to look at coming down I-44. More old trees going to bite the dust. Hopefully their landscaping around the parking structure will be nice--soften the impact of it a little on the aesthetics of that hillside which is pretty.

They use that east field during special events. This will allow closer parking and an easier way to climb up the hill

I noticed today there is already a construction fence and some clearing in the area of the future parking structure.

I noticed today there is already a construction fence and some clearing in the area of the future parking structure.

they did a bunch of tree/shrub clearing and dirt work in the last week or so

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboy031922a.jpg

Plans have been filed for a new outdoor event space.

See the press release below that also mentions the parking structure that just started work.

**************

Groundbreaking Begins Newest Phase of Development at The Cowboy
Thursday, July 15, 2021

OKLAHOMA CITY, OK – In a sunny Tuesday morning ceremony, National Cowboy Museum president, board members and supporters broke ground on the newest phase of Museum expansions, the Meinders Event Lawn & Garden and additional parking structures.

“Phase II of our Capital Campaign has required a lot of hard work and coordination by many, many partners,” said National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum President and CEO Natalie Shirley at the ceremony. “First and foremost, we have to thank Herman and LaDonna Meinders for their support. Without it we would not be able to create this wonderful garden that will soon grace the front of the Museum. What you see now is asphalt, but in just a few short months, you are going to see something lush, green and beautiful.”

In addition to the new garden and event lawn, Phase II of the expansion plan includes a parking garage and terraced, uncovered parking spaces on Museum grounds, as well as a refresh of the Sam Noble Special Events Center.

“We have had a dream of solving several issues to bring this museum to a higher level,” said Larry Nichols, Museum Board Member and Chairman of the Capital Campaign, in a speech at the ceremony. “We need more parking, we need covered parking, we need a better entrance, and we need additional spaces for people to gather.”

The Meinders Event Lawn & Garden, made possible by a generous donation from Herman and LaDonna Meinders, will include walking paths, an event lawn and a butterfly garden.

Construction on the garden and additional parking is the second phase in a three-phase plan to beautify and improve the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum. The first phase of expansions produced Liichokoshkomo’, the Museum’s 100,000 square foot outdoor play-based learning addition including native dwellings and STEAM learning opportunities.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboyhall032122a.jpg


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this makes the new parking addition make even more sense

More corporate event and wedding revenue. Wonder if the FAM has caused them to step up their game?

Events are big revenue generators but there is now a ton of competition.

I know the owner of one of the city's big event venues and she told me their bookings are way down over the last several years (before the pandemic), simply due to so many competing sites.

Does anyone know the real reason behind why the name "The Cowboy Hall of Fame" was dropped in favor for "The National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum"? I was born and raised in OKC and still call it "The Cowboy Hall of Fame". I find it funny that no one uses the acronym "NCWHM".:)

Does anyone know the real reason behind why the name "The Cowboy Hall of Fame" was dropped in favor for "The National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum"? I was born and raised in OKC and still call it "The Cowboy Hall of Fame". I find it funny that no one uses the acronym "NCWHM".:)

I don't know the actual reason, but I'm sure it had to do with the fact that's it's more than just a Hall of Fame, it's a museum and event center for all things "Western" related.

Does anyone know the real reason behind why the name "The Cowboy Hall of Fame" was dropped in favor for "The National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum"? I was born and raised in OKC and still call it "The Cowboy Hall of Fame". I find it funny that no one uses the acronym "NCWHM".:)

looks like the name was changed in1960 (5 years after founding ) then again in 2000


The museum was established in 1955 as the Cowboy Hall of Fame and Museum, from an idea proposed by Chester A. Reynolds, to honor the cowboy and his era. Later that same year, the name was changed to the National Cowboy Hall of Fame and Museum. In 1960, the name was changed again to the National Cowboy Hall of Fame and Western Heritage Center. The American Alliance of Museums gave the museum full accreditation in 2000, when it took on its present name.

^^^^^^^^
Yes, with the AAM accreditation they wanted to update the branding to reflect that it was truly a world-class museum (it most certainly is, with among other things the largest collection of Western fine art in the world) rather than simply a HOF, which for many denotes more of a roadside attraction (I say this in no way to denigrate others who use the HOF moniker).

There are a lot of stereotypes when you think of Cowboy. With the current name they don't lean into that stereotype as much.

Plans have been filed to build a parking structure into the side of the hill on the east side of the property:


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboyhall012822d.jpg


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This may have been postponed. Noticed the construction trailer is now gone

This may have been postponed. Noticed the construction trailer is now gone

Yeah, strange.

They briefly started work but then stopped some time ago.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboy013024a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboy013024b.jpg

Pete, do you know if the parking garage and outdoor space is still moving forward or not?

Pete, do you know if the parking garage and outdoor space is still moving forward or not?

No idea.

I looks like that area has had dirt moved recently and there was a work truck out there.

I know they are working on expanding the existing parking area.


Edit: I just looked at an aerial from December and the site work in that photo above that I took 1/30/04 is definitely new since then, so my guess is that the garage is back on. Perhaps they wanted to first expand the surface lot, as they use that lower area for temporary parking, especially when they have events.

Here is a zoomed-in photo and you can see a construction fence. Looks like the garage work is starting again:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboy013024c.jpg

Must explain the absolute gnarly chop job/topping of dozens of old growth trees close to i-44 on the east side of the hill. Horrible tree work unless it is just initial cutting before complete removal, which they did with some of the trees already. This tree work first started, I think, back in October, and it was a sad day indeed as this hillside had a beautiful canopy of old growth trees. Hate the way it looks now, truthfully.

Must explain the absolute gnarly chop job/topping of dozens of old growth trees close to i-44 on the east side of the hill. Horrible tree work unless it is just initial cutting before complete removal, which they did with some of the trees already. This tree work first started, I think, back in October, and it was a sad day indeed as this hillside had a beautiful canopy of old growth trees. Hate the way it looks now, truthfully.

I noticed this about a month ago while driving west down I-44. It looks horrendous! But hey, you can now see the Buffalo Bill statue on the hill...

I have no idea what they are doing with the lower parking area. Not sure if the proposed garage is still going forward.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboyhall061624a.jpg

Looks like they are turning it into a little bit nicer overflow parking lot. Not sure how often they use that overflow, but I guess not often enough to justify a parking garage.

Looks like they are turning it into a little bit nicer overflow parking lot. Not sure how often they use that overflow, but I guess not often enough to justify a parking garage.

Except the area closest to the museum -- where the garage was planned -- has a construction fence around it.

And the property has looked this way for a couple of years now. If they were just going to put in a big paved lot it would have been done a long time ago.

It's all so strange.

Except the area closest to the museum -- where the garage was planned -- has a construction fence around it.

And the property has looked this way for a couple of years now. If they were just going to put in a big paved lot it would have been done a long time ago.

It's all so strange.

Oh I thought you were referring to the area to the east of fenced area. Looks like that has been expanded with gravel. Unless that is for construction staging, it doesn't look promising for the parking garage.

I heard they are not building the parking garage at this time. When they resurface an existing parking lot, they take the removed asphalt and place it on the lower lots on the east side. Using it for overflow parking on what used to be their Chuck Wagon area. Also helps keep water runoff on property.

So the newly added rock was for the chuck wagon festival to prevent dirt from going everywhere. Also serving as a overflow lot to the museum as the west half of the existing parking lot is getting worked on.

trees have been cleared on that hill because for some Route 66 event they are going to have, there is going to be some kind of light show broadcasted on that hill.

as for the parking garage, I think it has been suspended from the current plans.

Plans have been filed for a new outdoor event space.

See the press release below that also mentions the parking structure that just started work.

**************

Groundbreaking Begins Newest Phase of Development at The Cowboy
Thursday, July 15, 2021

OKLAHOMA CITY, OK – In a sunny Tuesday morning ceremony, National Cowboy Museum president, board members and supporters broke ground on the newest phase of Museum expansions, the Meinders Event Lawn & Garden and additional parking structures.

“Phase II of our Capital Campaign has required a lot of hard work and coordination by many, many partners,” said National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum President and CEO Natalie Shirley at the ceremony. “First and foremost, we have to thank Herman and LaDonna Meinders for their support. Without it we would not be able to create this wonderful garden that will soon grace the front of the Museum. What you see now is asphalt, but in just a few short months, you are going to see something lush, green and beautiful.”

In addition to the new garden and event lawn, Phase II of the expansion plan includes a parking garage and terraced, uncovered parking spaces on Museum grounds, as well as a refresh of the Sam Noble Special Events Center.

“We have had a dream of solving several issues to bring this museum to a higher level,” said Larry Nichols, Museum Board Member and Chairman of the Capital Campaign, in a speech at the ceremony. “We need more parking, we need covered parking, we need a better entrance, and we need additional spaces for people to gather.”

The Meinders Event Lawn & Garden, made possible by a generous donation from Herman and LaDonna Meinders, will include walking paths, an event lawn and a butterfly garden.

Construction on the garden and additional parking is the second phase in a three-phase plan to beautify and improve the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum. The first phase of expansions produced Liichokoshkomo’, the Museum’s 100,000 square foot outdoor play-based learning addition including native dwellings and STEAM learning opportunities.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboyhall032122a.jpg


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Another weird thing: They seem to have scrapped the plans for this garden and merely reworked the existing parking lot:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboyhall062024a.jpg

Seems like the Event Lawn and Garden space was driving the need for the parking garage. Maybe demand for this went down or there is just a lot of competition out there. I would think the main dining hall with the artwork would be their main selling point.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboy080424c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cowboy080424b.jpg