Oklahoma City had no idea that when we built our downtown arena that we would land the more prestigious NBA over the NHL.

OKC overachieved...

we built it with a tenant in mind... it just wasn't basketball... the city was basically told that if they build it, the Phoenix Coyotes of the NHL would move here... and their ownership then used us building are arena to get Glendale to build their new arena.

I have been a long time fan of the NHL and really hope it can continue to develop as a league. In the next 10-15 years it would be cool if we were to replace the Peake with a new arena built to house the Thunder and an NHL team.

I have been a long time fan of the NHL and really hope it can continue to develop as a league. In the next 10-15 years it would be cool if we were to replace the Peake with a new arena built to house the Thunder and an NHL team.

the time frame of about 10 years would be quite perfect... the few teams that are struggling in current markets have contracts that mean they would be looking in about that time frame. Arizona Coyotes and Florida Panthers are two most likely... with St. Louis Blues after that. most of the other teams have strong followings, even through bad years.

We are much more likely to get minor league hockey back, and hopefully a team solely owned by it's NHL Affiliate. perhaps getting St Louis or Colorado AHL, or Dallas ECHL. and i would be happy with these options

http://journalrecord.com/2018/12/10/oklahoma-joe-city-county-must-face-reality-on-building-new-jail/

http://journalrecord.com/2018/12/10/oklahoma-joe-city-county-must-face-reality-on-building-new-jail/

Uh No. Put a jail and stadium on there and I predict that you will see the end of MAPS

I think it would be bull**** of the highest order for the City to have to come in and spend MAPS money to replace the jail when the County who is actually responsible for it has apparently just been procrastinating for a decade.

Uh No. Put a jail and stadium on there and I predict that you will see the end of MAPS

A new county jail will be the responsibility of the county; not Oklahoma City: https://newsok.com/article/5409282/tax-plan-to-build-new-oklahoma-county-jail-takes-shape

Oklahoma Gazette: https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/discussions-on-the-county-jail-and-criminal-justice-reform-continue-with-the-newly-created-oklahoma-county-criminal-justice-advisory-council/Content?oid=2981041


A preliminary cost outline includes $235 million to build a new jail, $65 million for the juvenile detention center and $5 million for the mental health facility.

We could appropriately call it Bedlam.

Thank God we haven't gone to a city-county partnered government like Louisville/Jefferson County metro government.

IMO they want to build a bigger jail so they can arrest more non violent folks for failing to pay traffic tickets or low level personal drug possession. They can make a lot of money and flood the courts and keep the wheels of justice turning. Remember,OK has one of if not the highest rates of incarceration in the WORLD. Yes,right here in good old Oklahoma.

A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine was stopped and taken to jail because he forgot or didn't pay a ticket from over a year ago. They towed his car and took him to jail. Seems a little excessive to me to take someone to jail for failing to pay a traffic ticket. I would imagine this happens quite a bit. If you fail to pay a ticket you might end up in a cell with a murderer.

Actually he had a couple of unpaid tickets but still.


So I assume they can't try to slip the City's portion of the jail on the MAPS ticket and then have the county pay the rest?

IMO they want to build a bigger jail so they can arrest more non violent folks for failing to pay traffic tickets or low level personal drug possession. They can make a lot of money and flood the courts and keep the wheels of justice turning. Remember,OK has one of if not the highest rates of incarceration in the WORLD. Yes,right here in good old Oklahoma.

A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine was stopped and taken to jail because he forgot or didn't pay a ticket from over a year ago. They towed his car and took him to jail. Seems a little excessive to me to take someone to jail for failing to pay a traffic ticket. I would imagine this happens quite a bit. If you fail to pay a ticket you might end up in a cell with a murderer.

Actually he had a couple of unpaid tickets but still.


So I assume they can't try to slip the City's portion of the jail on the MAPS ticket and then have the county pay the rest?

OKC has cut the number of prisoners by a great margin, and is at the forefront of the state for making nonviolent crimes non-jailable offenses.

You really are that crazy, arent't you? OKC has cut the number of prisoners by a great margin, and is at the forefront of the state for making nonviolent crimes non-jailable offenses. But by all means, keep ignoring those facts.

I think they are a little off base. But, I do think that we need to consider demanding an end to incarceration for drug possession tagged on as a part of this funding mechanism. From what I have read about the plans for the jail, I would like them to put more money and effort into the mental health facility. In addition to better access to mental health facilities, Oklahoman's need better access to social workers, addiction treatment, and vocational programs when incarcerated. I want to see some criminal justice reform and social outreach tied directly to this.

https://okpolicy.org/in-its-first-year-sq-780-reversed-10-years-of-growth-in-felony-filings/
https://okpolicy.org/as-rates-of-theft-continue-to-decrease-in-oklahoma-sq-780-reduced-punishments/

Actually he had a couple of unpaid tickets but still.
While I tend to agree that jail seems excessive, there are consequences for actions, or in your friend's case, inaction.

I think they are a little off base. But, I do think that we need to consider demanding an end to incarceration for drug possession tagged on as a part of this funding mechanism. From what I have read about the plans for the jail, I would like them to put more money and effort into the mental health facility. In addition to better access to mental health facilities, Oklahoman's need better access to social workers, addiction treatment, and vocational programs when incarcerated. I want to see some criminal justice reform and social outreach tied directly to this.

https://okpolicy.org/in-its-first-year-sq-780-reversed-10-years-of-growth-in-felony-filings/
https://okpolicy.org/as-rates-of-theft-continue-to-decrease-in-oklahoma-sq-780-reduced-punishments/
Agree wholeheartedly. Less money for jail, a lot more money for mental health and related services.

OKC has cut the number of prisoners by a great margin, and is at the forefront of the state for making nonviolent crimes non-jailable offenses.

Also,

Pay your f*cking tickets

The jail time for unpaid tickets are usually not because of the tickets, they are usually bench warrants for failing to appear in court to deal with them.

The jail time for unpaid tickets are usually not because of the tickets, they are usually bench warrants for failing to appear in court to deal with them.


That's exactly what they took him to jail for,a bench warrant. I understand it was totally the guys fault for not paying his tickets on time but seems to me they could come up with a better solution. It would be interesting to see how many people go to jail for not paying tickets. I bet the number is pretty high. He was in jail for 2 days and had to pay to get his vehicle out of the impound so what started out as a few hundred dollars ended up costing him around $1000.00 and a couple days in jail.

http://www.easternflyer.com/images/route-map-2014_large.jpg

Passenger Rail from Oklahoma City to Tulsa via the Eastern Flyer: http://www.easternflyer.com/images/route-map-2014_large.jpg


https://ggwash.org/images/posts/201511-162121-13.jpg
Oklahoma City Union Station. Photo from Raymond Woods on Flickr.

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-e13a4fda147897720019cfea091e729d.jpg
The passenger waiting area with its 25-foot-high ceiling was restored in 1978 by Thurman Magbee and can be cleared of office pods added in the center of the area so that it can be returned to its original appearance. [Photo provided by the Oklahoma Historical Society]

Could MAPS money be used for more downtown OKC connection for more upgrades to the Union Station to make it a viable passenger rail alternative to Tulsa: https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/passenger-rail-between-tulsa-and-okc-company-seeks-another-eastern/article_2d3358ac-7639-5d5c-841f-9f39cfe45b40.html

That's exactly what they took him to jail for,a bench warrant. I understand it was totally the guys fault for not paying his tickets on time but seems to me they could come up with a better solution. It would be interesting to see how many people go to jail for not paying tickets. I bet the number is pretty high. He was in jail for 2 days and had to pay to get his vehicle out of the impound so what started out as a few hundred dollars ended up costing him around $1000.00 and a couple days in jail.
Again though, there are consequences. What other recourse would you like the city to have for someone who fails to pay the fines and fails to appear? It didn't have to end that way for him.

The better solution is to contact the court at any point prior to being pulled over and make arrangements.

http://www.easternflyer.com/images/route-map-2014_large.jpg

Passenger Rail from Oklahoma City to Tulsa via the Eastern Flyer: http://www.easternflyer.com/images/route-map-2014_large.jpg


https://ggwash.org/images/posts/201511-162121-13.jpg
Oklahoma City Union Station. Photo from Raymond Woods on Flickr.

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-e13a4fda147897720019cfea091e729d.jpg
The passenger waiting area with its 25-foot-high ceiling was restored in 1978 by Thurman Magbee and can be cleared of office pods added in the center of the area so that it can be returned to its original appearance. [Photo provided by the Oklahoma Historical Society]

Could MAPS money be used for more downtown OKC connection for more upgrades to the Union Station to make it a viable passenger rail alternative to Tulsa: https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/passenger-rail-between-tulsa-and-okc-company-seeks-another-eastern/article_2d3358ac-7639-5d5c-841f-9f39cfe45b40.html

While I do remain a very strong proponent of the idea of returning Union Station to a transportation use such as this - it would make an E-W commuter line and the eventual passenger service to Tulsa much less challenging from an engineering standpoint - unfortunately I believe that ship has long since sailed. There is enough room in the Union Pacific rail corridor to install a second set of tracks and a platform, but to my knowledge the underground tunnel from Union Station would need to be rebuilt. I do not believe the tunnel survived the construction of the realigned I-40, since that went right through the former (and massive) rail yard where the station's platforms used to be. Additionally, I think most (if not all) of the people with power in the city are more interested in having Santa Fe Station serve that purpose instead, with all of the money that's been pumped into the building so far - so there's little support for Union Station, unfortunately.

Again though, there are consequences. What other recourse would you like the city to have for someone who fails to pay the fines and fails to appear? It didn't have to end that way for him.

Not sure what else can be done but reading that article saying the jail is extremely overcrowded there must be a better solution for traffic bandits. I don't look at someone not paying a traffic ticket in the same light as a murderer or rapist or someone that is out committing actual crimes. But in OKC they are all lumped together. Do other cities put people in jail for unpaid traffic tickets?

Lol. Like okc and Oklahoma is the only place in the country that issues bench warrants for unpaid parking tickets

Literally every other city issues bench warrants. And there’s a huge difference between parking and traffic tickets. Your buddy likely had traffic tickets.

Not sure what else can be done but reading that article saying the jail is extremely overcrowded there must be a better solution for traffic bandits. I don't look at someone not paying a traffic ticket in the same light as a murderer or rapist or someone that is out committing actual crimes. But in OKC they are all lumped together. Do other cities put people in jail for unpaid traffic tickets?
I don't disagree with you - I don't think overcrowded jail is the ideal method for handling these situations and there's got to be a better solution. I certainly don't look at someone with unpaid traffic fines in the same light as a murderer or rapist, but your friend committed a crime and received a citation and a fine, which he then chose not to pay and is now suffering the consequences. Was that fair? That's debatable, but it could have been avoided by either not committing the traffic violations or paying the fines or showing up to court. This the result of several poor choices on your friend's part. I don't know about other cities.

Was your friend in the wrong for not paying traffic tickets? Of course. Is it worth locking them up for a couple days and tacking on hundreds, or even thousands in extra fines? Absolutely not. It looks like your friend could pay it so he got out after two days. But so many have got caught in a debt trap and effectively are put away in debtors prison. We pay to lock them up because they cant pay a exorbitant fine or cant make bail, we keep the jail overcrowded and unsafe and prevent someone from getting back into his life and job. It makes no sense.

Impound his car, add a small fee to the original fine and move on. Arrest is totally unnecessary. Its actually been shown that cities and states collect more money when they dont have ridiculously high fees tacked onto every charge and late payment. Its better to collect $250 rather than never collecting $1500 and having to lock someone up for a month (another $1200 cost to the city).

Was your friend in the wrong for not paying traffic tickets? Of course. Is it worth locking them up for a couple days and tacking on hundreds, or even thousands in extra fines? Absolutely not. It looks like your friend could pay it so he got out after two days. But so many have got caught in a debt trap and effectively are put away in debtors prison. We pay to lock them up because they cant pay a exorbitant fine or cant make bail, we keep the jail overcrowded and unsafe and prevent someone from getting back into his life and job. It makes no sense.

Impound his car, add a small fee to the original fine and move on. Arrest is totally unnecessary. Its actually been shown that cities and states collect more money when they dont have ridiculously high fees tacked onto every charge and late payment. Its better to collect $250 rather than never collecting $1500 and having to lock someone up for a month (another $1200 cost to the city).

Of course he was in the wrong for not paying when due. The point I was trying to make was the over crowding in the county jail. Has to be a better way to deal with people that don't pay tickets on time. They could prob. ease the swell in the County Jail if there was other options for the non payers. Funny thing is though,he went before the judge and they made a deal where he could pay them out. If he had to pay or stay in jail he would have either had to borrow the money to pay them or stay his time in jail. Not sure how long they give you if you fail to pay tickets. I assume that the city makes a ton of money of these types of situations so they prob wouldn't want to change the way they do business. And putting someone in jail for failing to pay a ticket and lumping them in with real criminals is totally insane IMO.

Ultimately the problems with the county jail are county government problems. It's not really something the city has any control over.

Ignores initial ticket, ignores summons, ignores court date, ignores the issue the entire time between the tickets were issued and the time he was arrested and the finally paid after being in jail and seeing a judge.

“There has to be something he could have done other than getting arrested...”

Ignores initial ticket, ignores summons, ignores court date, ignores the issue the entire time between the tickets were issued and the time he was arrested and the finally paid after being in jail and seeing a judge.

“There has to be something he could have done other than getting arrested...”

This is one of those tough cases to be sympathetic towards. I am upset that we paid to incarcerate this jackass that clearly has no common sense. This guy needs a court mandated class in being an adult that he is responsible for paying for.

Ignores initial ticket, ignores summons, ignores court date, ignores the issue the entire time between the tickets were issued and the time he was arrested and the finally paid after being in jail and seeing a judge.

“There has to be something he could have done other than getting arrested...”


That is not the point. There is no question that he should have paid the tickets. The question is clogging up the courts and the jail with people that have unpaid traffic tickets. Go impound their vehicle or suspend driving lic. or whatever. Better ways to punish people other than taking them to an over crowded jail (with real criminals) and clogging up the court system.

I am sure there are prob. many people that get tickets and have to make a choice of feeding their kids,keeping the gas on or paying the ticket. I am prob. in the minority but I don't think non payers of traffic tickets should be thrown in jail with real criminals. In fact, It's insane IMO.

Then again we can spend a 1/4 of a billion dollars on a BIG jail so they can fill that one up and make even more money off these traffic ticket bandits.

Ignores initial ticket, ignores summons, ignores court date, ignores the issue the entire time between the tickets were issued and the time he was arrested and the finally paid after being in jail and seeing a judge.

“There has to be something he could have done other than getting arrested...”

No one is saying he didn't mess up. However, it's still a waste of taxpayer money. The costs can then quickly become inordinate.

That is not the point. There is no question that he should have paid the tickets. The question is clogging up the courts and the jail with people that have unpaid traffic tickets. Go impound their vehicle or suspend driving lic. or whatever. Better ways to punish people other than taking them to an over crowded jail (with real criminals) and clogging up the court system.

I am sure there are prob. many people that get tickets and have to make a choice of feeding their kids,keeping the gas on or paying the ticket. I am prob. in the minority but I don't think non payers of traffic tickets should be thrown in jail with real criminals. In fact, It's insane IMO.

Then again we can spend a 1/4 of a billion dollars on a BIG jail so they can fill that one up and make even more money off these traffic ticket bandits.

Stepping into my defense attorney shoes for just a minute, almost all of those "real criminals" are awaiting trial and are still presumed innocent of any crimes.

Did he make any effort to seek any of those other options?

This thread is way off topic.

Still off topic but FYI, Oklahoma City tries really hard to work with people that have warrants for unpaid traffic tickets. They've put out regular press releases for years that explain that you won't be arrested if you contact them about unpaid tickets and try to work something out, even if there's already a warrant. They'd much prefer working out arrangements with folks. At some point there's a limit though. Suspending someone's license just means they'll drive without a license, many times. Impounding a car can be even more devastating, especially considering the daily storage fees which rack up quickly. If someone can't afford to pay a ticket, they probably can't afford to pay a ticket plus impound and storage fees. So not sure what the solution is. You can't just not enforce people paying tickets, because why would anyone?

Side note, as for being jailed with "real criminals", I've been in the country jail. I never felt worried or threatened by the other "residents" there. The worst part was the toilets. Now the guards on the other hand...

Still off topic but FYI, Oklahoma City tries really hard to work with people that have warrants for unpaid traffic tickets. They've put out regular press releases for years that explain that you won't be arrested if you contact them about unpaid tickets and try to work something out, even if there's already a warrant. They'd much prefer working out arrangements with folks. At some point there's a limit though. Suspending someone's license just means they'll drive without a license, many times. Impounding a car can be even more devastating, especially considering the daily storage fees which rack up quickly. If someone can't afford to pay a ticket, they probably can't afford to pay a ticket plus impound and storage fees. So not sure what the solution is. You can't just not enforce people paying tickets, because why would anyone?

Side note, as for being jailed with "real criminals", I've been in the country jail. I never felt worried or threatened by the other "residents" there. The worst part was the toilets. Now the guards on the other hand...

Never been inside the place and don't want to go and find out what it's like either. I did read that article where it says the plumbing is shot and the sewage back up. This thread got me thinking that I have a parking ticket from one of the lots downtown where I went over about 20 min. on my time about a year ago. I actually forgot about it so I am thinking they may have a warrant out for me. I don't remember it looking like a regular ticket the cops give out though. Sheesh, I guess I better call and find out. I don't want to experience those toilets or the guards.

This is my last post on this subject but seems to me they could have a better option for the non payers. Maybe send someone out and put a boot on their car like they do in the big cities for violaters. That would get someones attention.

Maybe you should just get better friends

That is not the point. There is no question that he should have paid the tickets. The question is clogging up the courts and the jail with people that have unpaid traffic tickets. Go impound their vehicle or suspend driving lic. or whatever. Better ways to punish people other than taking them to an over crowded jail (with real criminals) and clogging up the court system.

I am sure there are prob. many people that get tickets and have to make a choice of feeding their kids,keeping the gas on or paying the ticket. I am prob. in the minority but I don't think non payers of traffic tickets should be thrown in jail with real criminals. In fact, It's insane IMO.

Then again we can spend a 1/4 of a billion dollars on a BIG jail so they can fill that one up and make even more money off these traffic ticket bandits.

The jail is not "clogged up" with people who didn't pay traffic tickets. That's really laughable. At most, assuming no other holds, that person would be held over until arraignment and released on an own recognizance bond with the promise to come back for the court's disposition docket.

We attorneys don't really see much of it because if folks can hire attorneys, they can usually pay their fines too, but the OKC Muni Court has started several programs to ensure we're not locking folks up just because they're poor. If they tell the court they can't afford the costs, they're given a packet to fill out and a date to show up so a judge can go over that packet to decide whether to reduce or eliminate fines and fees. We also have multilingual community outreach folks to help non-English speakers.

Lots of folks in this thread are either projecting federal issues onto OKC when OKC is well ahead of the curve or they just haven't been to city court in a very long time.

On tickets once they get bad (not paying) put them on pothole patrol and work with city crews filling potholes. Its related to the act of driving (roads) and offers an option for those unable to pay.

As for Maps4 I want to see road construction funding extended beyond what they are doing. We need to get ahead of our bad roads and although the current funding is helping its still a bandaid. We need to keep going and this will be positive in that it will reach every resident of OKC vice just downtown. The city residents need to see their areas improved and roads are one area that all use. That way when they ask for the next round to do stadiums or other centralized projects the outer residents will buy in.

Lol. Calling the go bond and maps 4 roads a bandaid. Didn’t know bandaids cost $800 million. Let’s get through all of that money before we declare it a band aid.

This thread is way off topic.

Agree!

http://rs93.pbsrc.com/albums/l69/KattClay/Misc%20Gifs/BackToTopicSmiley.gif~c200

I have dreamed of an Oklahoma City Museum of Modern Art and Sculpture Museum. 15071
The lot would be right across the Museum of Art. Personally, I would tear down everything there except the concrete structures that were part of the bank
15072
This portion would become the outdoor sculpture garden, similar to the sculpture museum in Dallas. Those are dreams haha, big ones I know!

Lol. Calling the go bond and maps 4 roads a bandaid. Didn’t know bandaids cost $800 million. Let’s get through all of that money before we declare it a band aid.

Laugh all you want but this is the consensus of folks around the city. Before they ask for more money they will need to have addressed roads. Otherwise folks will defeat the next maps. If the current spend does fix roads then I think most citizens will support maps 4. But its no laughing matter to me and others who do a lot of driving

Laugh all you want but this is the consensus of folks around the city. Before they ask for more money they will need to have addressed roads. Otherwise folks will defeat the next maps. If the current spend does fix roads then I think most citizens will support maps 4. But its no laughing matter to me and others who do a lot of driving

Repaving roads takes time, unless you want to redo all of them at once and create a traffic nightmare.

The issue isn't funding. There's plenty of money. The issue is redoing all of OKC's roads takes more than 2 years. Those people are the same people who probably get into a rage about I CANT BELIEVE THEY CLOSED THIS ROAD AT THIS TIME BECAUSE OF X EVENT. People just like to bitch and moan

I have dreamed of an Oklahoma City Museum of Modern Art and Sculpture Museum. 15071
The lot would be right across the Museum of Art. Personally, I would tear down everything there except the concrete structures that were part of the bank
15072
This portion would become the outdoor sculpture garden, similar to the sculpture museum in Dallas. Those are dreams haha, big ones I know!

I like this idea a lot. I'm a nerd who loves museums, but I think this is a great suggestion.

The bond program takes place over 10 years. MAPS 4 will need to be voted on in 2019. Your request has merit but is impractical. This is the nature of our 10-year bond programs. There are literally still things being wrapped up from the 2007 bond program.

Would love to see an Oklahoma City Aquatic & Wellness Center.

Similar to the Greensboro Aquatic Center. Oklahoma City could build a similar center like the one in Greensboro; however make it complete with the Wellness Center.

Repaving roads takes time, unless you want to redo all of them at once and create a traffic nightmare.

The issue isn't funding. There's plenty of money. The issue is redoing all of OKC's roads takes more than 2 years. Those people are the same people who probably get into a rage about I CANT BELIEVE THEY CLOSED THIS ROAD AT THIS TIME BECAUSE OF X EVENT. People just like to bitch and moan

Then they need to send out flyers to residents based on zip codes and list the roads and when they are projected to be redone. We all understand it can’t be done overnight but need to see what roads are scheduled.

Your last 2 sentences starting with “those people” have nothing to do with the topic I addressed and should be said in the gossip thread and not directed at me.

The bond program takes place over 10 years. MAPS 4 will need to be voted on in 2019. Your request has merit but is impractical. This is the nature of our 10-year bond programs. There are literally still things being wrapped up from the 2007 bond program.


Thanks for your reasonable response. At minimum the city needs to send out a flyer based on zip codes and list all roads being redone and when scheduled. This would serve to allow every resident to see which roads are scheduled. Otherwise most citizens will never know and might assume bad roads are not being fixed.

This is a huge PR deal if they want the next Maps to pass. Each Maps has passed by less than the prior one. A lot of non core residents I talk to are not enthusied with streetcar expense. Thus why if we can show them Maps money is also being spent on roads in their area this will help the buy in for Maps4.

MAPS projects have always been a compromise. Nobody is going to benefit from every project, and some people won't benefit from any of them. We've got to be able to prevail to a general sense of civic pride, of wanting our city to be something better than it is. Purely economic projects like the convention center have their place, but those alone won't get enough votes to pass. Downtown-centric projects like the streetcar are cool, and they inspire a certain segment of the population, but a lot of people will never use them. Projects specific to other neighborhoods will affect progressively fewer and fewer people -- a great park on 150th and Rockwell might be wonderful for people near it but it won't get used by most of the people in the city.

Road improvements are quite expensive, and I worry about paying for things that should be handled with the city's day to day operating budget with special funding projects like MAPS. Roads wear out, and then you've got nothing to point to like you would with a ballpark or streetcar.

Then they need to send out flyers to residents based on zip codes and list the roads and when they are projected to be redone. We all understand it can’t be done overnight but need to see what roads are scheduled.

Your last 2 sentences starting with “those people” have nothing to do with the topic I addressed and should be said in the gossip thread and not directed at me.
If they care that much its a ten second google search.

And there’s a certain segment of society that is constantly complaining. If it wasn’t bad roads it’d be something else

Road improvements are quite expensive, and I worry about paying for things that should be handled with the city's day to day operating budget with special funding projects like MAPS. Roads wear out, and then you've got nothing to point to like you would with a ballpark or streetcar.

Agree. Rather than a general "make roads better" item on MAPS, which is hard to get folks excited about IMO, I maybe could see some large, visible road based project for a MAPS initiative. If it was something (but better done) akin to the downtown BLVD, running N/S (Classen?) or such, I could see the selling value. Otherwise road spending under MAPS wouldn't really be a cornerstone, just an item on a list of secondary minor projects.

Personally, I'm a big supporter of the idea of cultural/art based projects, and technology based (Municipal Wi-Fi anyone?)

Agree. Rather than a general "make roads better" item on MAPS, which is hard to get folks excited about IMO, I maybe could see some large, visible road based project for a MAPS initiative. If it was something (but better done) akin to the downtown BLVD, running N/S (Classen?) or such, I could see the selling value. Otherwise road spending under MAPS wouldn't really be a cornerstone, just an item on a list of secondary minor projects.

Personally, I'm a big supporter of the idea of cultural/art based projects, and technology based (Municipal Wi-Fi anyone?)


i'm still on the streetcar expansion and bike trails, lanes.... but very interested in what other projects people can come up with. you have any specific cultural/art based projects you are hoping for?

I started thinking, what about a Vietnam memorial, both to the people who fought in the war and to all the immigrants who came to Oklahoma in the aftermath?

We could have a wall with all the Oklahoma soldiers who died in the war, and then like a path you walked down that detailed the journey of the people who were brought over to the United States. At the end, maybe a statue that recreates the scene of the evacuation of Saigon?

https://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embed_tablet/public/2015/04/17/0417namfall01.jpg

I started thinking, what about a Vietnam memorial, both to the people who fought in the war and to all the immigrants who came to Oklahoma in the aftermath?

We could have a wall with all the Oklahoma soldiers who died in the war, and then like a path you walked down that detailed the journey of the people who were brought over to the United States. At the end, maybe a statue that recreates the scene of the evacuation of Saigon?

https://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embed_tablet/public/2015/04/17/0417namfall01.jpg

Military park is already a pretty nice memorial with the recent soldier statue additions...

Oklahoma City MAPS 3 Wellness Centers
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kgou/files/styles/large/public/201612/bb-senior-wellness-bbf-1.jpg https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5498cce2e4b044170dcb783b/562017bfe4b0d3603bd0e8ad/5a21b2064192024be01b17f4/1512157705924/Senior+Ctr+10517++053-small.JPG?format=500w https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5498cce2e4b044170dcb783b/562017bfe4b0d3603bd0e8ad/5a21af0f9140b7f66826673e/1512156947688/Sr+Ctr+11417+071-small.JPG?format=500whttps://static1.squarespace.com/static/5498cce2e4b044170dcb783b/562017bfe4b0d3603bd0e8ad/5a21b09be2c48343d9826969/1512157344238/Senior+Ctr+10517++056-small.JPG?format=500w

Oklahoma City MAPS 3 Wellness Centers: http://www.gsb-inc.com/maps3-senior-health-wellness-center/

Greensboro Aquatic Center
https://cdn.swimswam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/greensboro1aquatic.jpg
Greensboro Aquatic Center: http://www.greensborocoliseum.com/venues/detail/greensboro-aquatic-center

Build one huge: Oklahoma City Aquatic & Wellness Center; a combination of a center similar to the Greensboro Aquatic Center with a OKC MAPS 3 Wellness Center included.

I'm a much bigger proponent of simply opening all of the health and wellness centers to all OKC residents, instead of just senior citizens.

MAPS projects have always been a compromise. Nobody is going to benefit from every project, and some people won't benefit from any of them. We've got to be able to prevail to a general sense of civic pride, of wanting our city to be something better than it is. Purely economic projects like the convention center have their place, but those alone won't get enough votes to pass. Downtown-centric projects like the streetcar are cool, and they inspire a certain segment of the population, but a lot of people will never use them. Projects specific to other neighborhoods will affect progressively fewer and fewer people -- a great park on 150th and Rockwell might be wonderful for people near it but it won't get used by most of the people in the city.

Road improvements are quite expensive, and I worry about paying for things that should be handled with the city's day to day operating budget with special funding projects like MAPS. Roads wear out, and then you've got nothing to point to like you would with a ballpark or streetcar.

I agree with your overall premise. But the challenge is we need enough city residents votes to pass Maps. So at some point you have to do something that benefits their area. Roads are an easy way to do so but they need to know about them with some type flyer. Its money well spent to get buy in for more Maps

Also, most people I talk to love the maps 1 and 2. Ballpark, canal, BB stadium were all smashing hits. As were most all other projects. Where I hear most complaints is streetcar.

It only takes 10% of voters to change from yes to no to lose the next Maps vote. Its not a buge margin compared to Maps1 was. So its very important to engage citizens (kind of like this thread) in Maps buy in.

If we propose Maps4 and it fails that will set us back bigtime. We may not get another chance for years. So if a flyer helps to engage citizens and shows Maps is not solely a downtown expense that could keep enough votes to pass the next Maps.

Does anyone have the vote percentages handy for 1, 2 and 3?

Military park is already a pretty nice memorial with the recent soldier statue additions...

Military park is small and seems like an afterthought. I'm thinking of something significantly larger. Think the WWI memorial in Kansas City. Not quite that big, but still something impressive.

I'm a much bigger proponent of simply opening all of the health and wellness centers to all OKC residents, instead of just senior citizens.

I've driven by it a lot and thought that too. There's probably a good reason why it's limited to senior citizens alone.

I'm a much bigger proponent of simply opening all of the health and wellness centers to all OKC residents, instead of just senior citizens.

I feel that a wellness center that caters primarily to senior centers make them feel safer in a sense that you aren't mixing older adults with the younger or youth crowd.

A center that I proposed would include a wellness center wing targeting seniors; it would also be open to a younger group with the main aquatic center--does that make sense.

Area universities, colleges, high schools without an Olympic size pool could also use the facility which could host National, Regional & State meets. This would give us a fifth wellness and an Aquatic Center capable of hosting Olympic training

Military park is small and seems like an afterthought. I'm thinking of something significantly larger. Think the WWI memorial in Kansas City. Not quite that big, but still something impressive.

While you're not wrong, nowhere other than Military Park really makes sense because that is the part of town where it is most relevant.

That said if we wanted to tweak the purpose of Memorial Park, that could be something. Lots of space there.