View Full Version : Ideas 4 MAPS
Laramie 08-14-2019, 12:35 PM Plutonic Panda has a suggestion on the MAPS 4 Stadium development thread--Crossroads Mall (Site #4): https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44923&page=14
https://i.imgur.com/SW5svaA.png
Is Crossroads Mall dead for future development?
Good potential with surface parking and established infrastructure support.
Plutonic Panda 08-14-2019, 12:41 PM ^^^ along the future OKC-HWY 9(Norman) Commuter route. This area is prime for a station ��
d-usa 08-14-2019, 12:52 PM I like a central location because it’s central.
But this would be a spot that has okay access (not great but maybe something that could be addressed as they work on the interchange), some entertainment options that would be available to serve the people attending events there, and I would think that maybe there would be less cost for site preparation. The area could benefit from the stimulus as well.
Ross MacLochness 08-14-2019, 02:34 PM While I understand the need for surface parking for a stadium such as this, it would be great if at least one side abutted some good walkable urban fabric allowing pre and post game shenanigans that didn't require one to drive.
d-usa 08-14-2019, 02:40 PM A nice pedestrian plaza on one end.
Johnb911 08-14-2019, 02:43 PM Cusack Meat is going to want $1.5B for their lot though...
Laramie 08-14-2019, 03:05 PM Cusack Meat is going to want $1.5B for their lot though...
$1.5 million for that building; that's why the city preferred to build around it--would have included the costly expenses associated with relocation
Believe they're looking at the Crossroad Mall site for the stadium; Pete mentioned the non acquired parcels left in the lower park will be cost prohibitive & time-consuming.
Johnb911 08-14-2019, 03:37 PM $1.5 million for that building; that's why the city preferred to build around it--would have included the costly expenses associated with relocation
Believe they're looking at the Crossroad Mall site for the stadium; Pete mentioned the non acquired parcels left in the lower park will be cost prohibitive & time-consuming.
It was a joke. They wanted that money for their turn around lot. The building would be 1000 times more expensive.
shawnw 08-14-2019, 07:39 PM Crossroads as the notional stadium site might be one of my favorite pluplan ideas ever.
Plutonic Panda 08-14-2019, 07:44 PM Crossroads as the notional stadium site might be one of my favorite pluplan ideas ever.
Dang man, I was sure you would have at least nominated my 50 lane I-35 plan. ;)
IMO you would not be helping the community to the south of the river by taking away that pretty, highly-used park so some rich guys can get a soccer stadium with tons of surface parking.
That’s fair, but building another rich white playground in the middle of the city with tax dollars paid by a multitude who live outside the CBD does little to further the #1OKC vision and tells anyone who lives south that they aren’t worthy of consideration.
People who think “we must build in the city center or it’s not relevant” are the problem, not the solution. I’m becoming more sold on the idea that we don’t need the stadium under these conditions.
Midtowner 08-19-2019, 11:35 AM The whole point of putting the stadium in South OKC particularly south of the river is to SPUR DEVELOPMENT. We need to give Capitol Hill, Stockyards and the Farmers Market a giant shot in the arm with public investment. Much in the same way NE OKC is benefiting from the Innovation District and Adventure District. Very simple concept. See Maps 1 & 3. Canal, ballpark, streetcar, library, the Peake, Central Park, convention center and whitewater facility have all transformed there immediate areas and have caused billions of additional private investment.
If what we're shooting for is residential development, how is that cause served by plunking down a venue where we can have 18-20 loud games and maybe as many LOUD concerts per year? Lost Lake isn't even near the size of what we're talking about and they've had to severely curtail their use because of noise complaints--and those noise complaints are not from folks who have paid upwards of $400/sq ft for their accommodations.
Laramie 08-19-2019, 07:32 PM Lost Lake Amphitheater complaints were for noise after 11 p.m. - 12 a.m., and later:
OKCTalk thread: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=42199
Media: https://kfor.com/2017/05/19/city-council-proposing-to-limit-concert-venues-to-three-concerts-a-year/
Don't know of any outdoor sporting event in the Oklahoma City area that extends beyond 10:30 p.m. , doubt if any soccer or minor league football games will last past 10 p.m. on the average.
SEMIweather 08-19-2019, 07:36 PM Energy home games currently finish up around 10 p.m.
OKC Guy 08-19-2019, 07:57 PM Austin has a noise map based on complaints. There are several cities with noise issues so this will have to be addressed (concerts)
http://www.lifeaustinnoise.org/
Good thing about their map is you can see the typical range in distance of most complaints to get an idea of how far complaints will come from
Laramie 08-20-2019, 04:41 PM Anyone with knowledge as to the date OKC will reveal the MAPS 4 project plans that will go before the voters in December as a single initiative:
Projects to be funded by proposed MAPS 3 sales tax revenue are only identified as city "capital improvements” in the ballot. Specifics of the $777 million MAPS 3 proposal aren’t listed on the ballot.--Oklahoman, September 29, 2009
Projects will be identified, probably in September 2019; there will not be a project listing on the ballot if they use the same ballot format in MAPS 3.
soonerguru 08-20-2019, 07:40 PM The projects will be identified way before that.
shawnw 08-21-2019, 07:50 AM https://oklahoman.com/article/5639102/maps-goes-to-the-people
Vote as soon as 10 December
I've been hearing the council may vote on the slate of projects as early as next Tuesday.
There are going to be lots of tough choices and I know Holt has been trying to negotiate support from the council behind the scenes, trying to satisfy the chamber (who finances the MAPS election campaign) and the new progressives, like Jo Beth Hamon, who want to focus on social services.
The sad part about all this is by the time it gets to the council's public meeting, they will have already likely decided on the slate.
By the time they vote, Holt will already have the votes needed for the slate to pass.
OKCRT 08-21-2019, 02:24 PM The sad part about all this is by the time it gets to the council's public meeting, they will have already likely decided on the slate.
By the time they vote, Holt will already have the votes needed for the slate to pass.
I know that these stadiums/arenas only take up a smaller % of MAPS money but it might just kill MAPS all together. That is my fear. I am all for MAPS but they might just kill the Golden Goose
jonny d 08-21-2019, 02:29 PM OKCTalk is a very small, vocal minority. Most people in OKC who will vote on this don't care about most of the complaints this site has. They don't care about looks, and are more function over form. I wish more followed sites like this, but most in OKC don't, and aside from a casual knowledge of Maps 4 projects, will vote for a new stadium and coliseum and not bat an eyelash.
^
Remember though that more than one professional poll has taken a cross-section of likely voters an found the stadium to be very unpopular.
So don't be so sure that plus a couple of things that a voter may not like might be enough to vote against and for all the success of MAPS, all the final votes have been relatively close. Doesn't take a lot to tip things in the other direction.
Having said all that, I expect MAPS 4 to pass. But I also think it's far from a sure thing.
Laramie 08-21-2019, 05:01 PM There were 16 projects presented for MAPS 4 (based on my research) estimated to cost $900-$950 million, listed the highest figure presented in those proposals; what's missing/also are those figures listed correct or need to be updated . . .
Figures listed in millions
$_40 - Animal Shelter
$(-?-) - Bike Lanes
$_88 - Bus Transit ($87.2)
$135 - Chesapeake Energy Arena enhancements
$_18 - Diversion Hub
$_37 - Family Justice Center (Palomar)
$_25 - Freedom Center
$_40 - Homeless Housing
$100 - Innovation Link
$(-?-) - Mental Health Facility
$_72 - Multipurpose Stadium
$120 - State Fair Coliseum
$(-?-) - Sidewalks
$(-?-) - Trails
$(-?-) - unidentified project
$(-?-) - unidentified project
Ten project identified comes to $675 million in projects based on proposals presented so far. What other projects are missing along with figures (-?-).
Were any estimates or figures identified for the cost of Bike Lanes, Mental Health Facility, Sidewalks, Trails & other unidentified projects. Please help with updates and/or corrections.
gopokes88 08-21-2019, 06:13 PM The sad part about all this is by the time it gets to the council's public meeting, they will have already likely decided on the slate.
By the time they vote, Holt will already have the votes needed for the slate to pass.
But that’s like how govt works. Otherwise it’s an endless deadlocked debate. You cut deals in back rooms with some wine and a steak.
This process was for 1 far more transparent than previously and 2 it’s going to be significantly more focused on social projects than big capital projects. Especially when you compare % of money towards social versus capital previously.
That is incremental progress. In government, good can’t be the enemy of great, and you can’t reject incremental changes because it’s not wholesale vast change.
OKCRT 08-21-2019, 06:50 PM OKCTalk is a very small, vocal minority. Most people in OKC who will vote on this don't care about most of the complaints this site has. They don't care about looks, and are more function over form. I wish more followed sites like this, but most in OKC don't, and aside from a casual knowledge of Maps 4 projects, will vote for a new stadium and coliseum and not bat an eyelash.
Hope you are correct.
Urban Pioneer 08-21-2019, 10:44 PM The sad part about all this is by the time it gets to the council's public meeting, they will have already likely decided on the slate.
By the time they vote, Holt will already have the votes needed for the slate to pass.
That’s representative government though. We elect these people to represent us. It will easily pass with a majority support but potentially not without some dicension.
Laramie 08-21-2019, 11:15 PM Without our original MAPS ($89 million for arena) & MAPS for HOOPS ($90 million) extension that funded its NBA requirements; included an NBA practice facility (bare bones $10 million minimum), we wouldn't have an NBA franchise. As a facility ages, continuous renovations are required to host a variety of events.
Forbes values the Thunder franchise at $1.5 billion (Middle of the NBA pack), our ownership group isn't getting any younger; they pay $1.6 million annually as an anchor tenant, they aren't prepared to invest $135 million into an arena the city owns.
soonerguru 08-21-2019, 11:55 PM Without our original MAPS ($89 million for arena) & MAPS for HOOPS ($90 million) extension that funded its NBA requirements; included an NBA practice facility (bare bones $10 million minimum), we wouldn't have an NBA franchise. As a facility ages, continuous renovations are required to host a variety of events.
Forbes values the Thunder franchise at $1.5 billion (Middle of the NBA pack), our ownership group isn't getting any younger; they pay $1.6 million annually as an anchor tenant, they aren't prepared to invest $135 million into an arena the city owns.
I'm OK with updating the arena. Totally. But why does a franchise with that valuation expect taxpayers to fund its private practice facility? I find that odious. It will not be a publicly accessible building.
Sorry but MAPS projects should be concentrated on public, not private, facilities, in my opinion.
Laramie 08-22-2019, 09:28 AM Understand your concern soonerguru, the Thunder practice facility is a city owned facility leased out to the Thunder, apart of the original agreement with the NBA when the franchise was relocated to our city.
No difference than if you owned a house or duplex you rented out to a tenant (unless you have a specified agreement), the owner is responsible for the infrastructure & structural upkeep of that building.
emtefury 08-22-2019, 06:01 PM I have been staying engaged with the projects proposed for MAPS 4 and I don't see it passing. I feel this is especially the case if social programs are involved. Where I live in SW OKC near Hobby Lobby, I know the residents are fed with the roads and lack of infrastructure. I know the response is OKC passed a MAPS for roads, but that is a drop in the bucket. Also, living in the outskirts of OKC, a large majority of MAPS supports downtown and we see none of it. I can see many residents throughout OKC not supporting another round of MAPS.
MAPS 4 should be road improvement and infrastructure throughout OKC. After these are improvements, then talk about doing more downtown and other projects.
jonny d 08-22-2019, 06:14 PM I have been staying engaged with the projects proposed for MAPS 4 and I don't see it passing. I feel this is especially the case if social programs are involved. Where I live in SW OKC near Hobby Lobby, I know the residents are fed with the roads and lack of infrastructure. I know the response is OKC passed a MAPS for roads, but that is a drop in the bucket. Also, living in the outskirts of OKC, a large majority of MAPS supports downtown and we see none of it. I can see many residents throughout OKC not supporting another round of MAPS.
MAPS 4 should be road improvement and infrastructure throughout OKC. After these are improvements, then talk about doing more downtown and other projects.
So 10 years from now? By then, we will need new roads. It's a never-ending cycle.
TheTravellers 08-22-2019, 06:17 PM I posted this in the Aquarium thread, figured it should go here too.
While I'm all for helping out our less fortunate citizens and will vote for MAPS4 to get things like streetlights, bike trails, sidewalks, Palomar, etc., that's completely *not* what MAPS is intended for, and I wish we could've found another way to pay for all those things I mentioned, but we can't, so we had to turn to MAPS. Here's what MAPS is about, from the city's website - "MAPS (Metropolitan Area Projects) is Oklahoma City's visionary capital improvement program for new and upgraded sports, recreation, entertainment, cultural and convention facilities."
So when it comes down to it, road improvement and infrastructure should not be MAPS-funded, but neither should all the social/citizenry type projects. Neither have gotten the funding they needed over the past, oh, 50 years, so we had to go the MAPS route.
emtefury 08-22-2019, 06:40 PM I understand the MAPS purpose, but should have used different language. The proposed 1% sales tax should be used for roads and infrastructure. Otherwise, I would prefer to not provide more of my money to the city through taxes.
baralheia 08-22-2019, 06:46 PM I understand the MAPS purpose, but should have used different language. The proposed 1% sales tax should be used for roads and infrastructure. Otherwise, I would prefer to not provide more of my money to the city through taxes.
If MAPS 4 passes, you won't be paying *anything* more than you are today. The MAPS 4 tax would simply replace the current MAPS 3 tax when it expires.
emtefury 08-22-2019, 06:52 PM If MAPS 4 passes, you won't be paying *anything* more than you are today. The MAPS 4 tax would simply replace the current MAPS 3 tax when it expires.
If MAPS 4 does not pass, I will be paying less in taxes.
baralheia 08-22-2019, 06:59 PM If MAPS 4 does not pass, I will be paying less in taxes.
This is absolutely true, but you appeared to frame your statement as paying more than you are today, so that's why I responded as I did. That said, "roads and infrastructure" isn't really what MAPS is designed to do, and that's why the City pushed for and got the nearly $1 billion GO bond approved for this purpose.
EDIT: Derp. You already said you know what the purpose of MAPS is. Reading comprehension fail. My bad.
OKC Guy 08-22-2019, 08:17 PM Understand your concern soonerguru, the Thunder practice facility is a city owned facility leased out to the Thunder, apart of the original agreement with the NBA when the franchise was relocated to our city.
No difference than if you owned a house or duplex you rented out to a tenant (unless you have a specified agreement), the owner is responsible for the infrastructure & structural upkeep of that building.
I agree with a majority of this post. However renters are not making money and then asking the owner to make improvements so they can make more money. They would partner together and both help pay for the expanded driveway or sidewalk. Since the renter will benefit they need to assist in paying for improvements. But I get what you are saying too this is city owned and needs fo be kept up. Image is a big deal and TV shows our city when showing a game. So if the facility looks good its a positive reflection on the city. I do think owners should chip in but since we are not looking nor getting other major tenants we have to pay for all or bulk of it. Its not like we can kick them out.
Laramie 08-22-2019, 08:23 PM This is absolutely true, but you appeared to frame your statement as paying more than you are today, so that's why I responded as I did. That said, "roads and infrastructure" isn't really what MAPS is designed to do, and that's why the City pushed for and got the nearly $1 billion GO bond approved for this purpose.
EDIT: Derp. You already said you know what the purpose of MAPS is. Reading comprehension fail. My bad.
Good point, the GO Bonds approved in 2017 addressed major streets, bridges, drainage, some sidewalks & trails--not that we couldn't use more.
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aquarium2.jpg
An Aquarium on the I-40 front is being discussed on the Development & Building Thread forum. Gaining momentum; however it may be too late in the process to get it on MAPS 4: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=45286 Contact your council representative if you want help drum up interest.
https://www.okc.gov/Home/ShowPublishedImage/10170/636903954860800000
https://www.okc.gov/
MAPS 4 would leave the current Oklahoma City sales tax rate of 4.125 percent unchanged. Including state sales tax, the overall sales tax rate in most of OKC is 8.625 percent (8.975 percent in Canadian County and 8.875 percent in Cleveland County because of county sales taxes).
Urban Pioneer 08-23-2019, 08:13 AM I posted this in the Aquarium thread, figured it should go here too.
While I'm all for helping out our less fortunate citizens and will vote for MAPS4 to get things like streetlights, bike trails, sidewalks, Palomar, etc., that's completely *not* what MAPS is intended for, and I wish we could've found another way to pay for all those things I mentioned, but we can't, so we had to turn to MAPS. Here's what MAPS is about, from the city's website - "MAPS (Metropolitan Area Projects) is Oklahoma City's visionary capital improvement program for new and upgraded sports, recreation, entertainment, cultural and convention facilities."
So when it comes down to it, road improvement and infrastructure should not be MAPS-funded, but neither should all the social/citizenry type projects. Neither have gotten the funding they needed over the past, oh, 50 years, so we had to go the MAPS route.
I am going to follow your lead and post this comment I made in the aquarium thread too.-
"It depends on how you look at it. There are some very specific special interests that obviously are getting their piece of the pie and under the guise of "economic revenue generators".
Conversely, you have a new slate of city councilors who campaigned on a promise to work on homelessness, sidewalks, transit, trails, animal welfare, mental health, substance abuse, placemaking, and reinvestment in neighborhoods outside of downtown. They were ushered in by their voters with those specific agendas. The scientific polling demonstrates that the voting public hasn't changed their priorities since those council seats changed. They have a mandate. The great debate, if there is one internally, is over projects that do not specifically address those concerns. These people waltzed into office with a mandate from their constituents and even the data from last week shows that nothing has changed with what the likely voter wants."
catch22 08-23-2019, 08:34 AM I am going to follow your lead and post this comment I made in the aquarium thread too.-
"It depends on how you look at it. There are some very specific special interests that obviously are getting their piece of the pie and under the guise of "economic revenue generators".
Conversely, you have a new slate of city councilors who campaigned on a promise to work on homelessness, sidewalks, transit, trails, animal welfare, mental health, substance abuse, placemaking, and reinvestment in neighborhoods outside of downtown. They were ushered in by their voters with those specific agendas. The scientific polling demonstrates that the voting public hasn't changed their priorities since those council seats changed. They have a mandate. The great debate, if there is one internally, is over projects that do not specifically address those concerns. These people waltzed into office with a mandate from their constituents and even the data from last week shows that nothing has changed with what the likely voter wants."
But does the polling indicate people want permanent solutions to those issues or a temporary tax meant for infrastructure. The problem is the low permanent tax rate not being enough to provide the services the city demands. This proposed MAPS is essentially spending a Christmas bonus to buy groceries and pay the car insurance bill - the problem is still on the revenue side long term. A temporary infrastructure tax won’t provide permanent funding for transit, sidewalks, mental health, animal services, homelessness, and other essential services the city needs.
Urban Pioneer 08-23-2019, 09:47 AM But does the polling indicate people want permanent solutions to those issues or a temporary tax meant for infrastructure. The problem is the low permanent tax rate not being enough to provide the services the city demands. This proposed MAPS is essentially spending a Christmas bonus to buy groceries and pay the car insurance bill - the problem is still on the revenue side long term. A temporary infrastructure tax won’t provide permanent funding for transit, sidewalks, mental health, animal services, homelessness, and other essential services the city needs.
Well arguably, all of the proposals that have been made are for infrastructure. Some of the improvements that I have been involved in require little or no increase to Operations and Maintenance costs. I know for a fact that the new animal shelter for example will mitigate long term costs as many things are being outsourced. Many of the transit improvements do not have immediate impact on O&M such as the shelters and automatic signal priority. The BRT will but presumably the initiative going to voters in March or the forthcoming RTA vote will deal with that.
I can't speak to every project but I did try to go to all of the presentations or watch them online. These questions you raise have generally been addressed in each proposal.
TheTravellers 08-23-2019, 10:10 AM But does the polling indicate people want permanent solutions to those issues or a temporary tax meant for infrastructure. The problem is the low permanent tax rate not being enough to provide the services the city demands. This proposed MAPS is essentially spending a Christmas bonus to buy groceries and pay the car insurance bill - the problem is still on the revenue side long term. A temporary infrastructure tax won’t provide permanent funding for transit, sidewalks, mental health, animal services, homelessness, and other essential services the city needs.
This is the problem I have with MAPS (both 3 and 4, but appears they've learned from 3 and 4 won't be as bad). Ongoing costs weren't addressed nearly as much as they should've been in MAPS3 and money had to be "found" to make up for it. And yeah, you can't just throw some money at social services, transit, bike lanes, etc. once and call it done, so hopefully, as UP says, that has been addressed this time around (I only watched a few presentations, not all, so I'm not aware of how each project will manage ongoing (as in forever) costs).
catch22 08-23-2019, 12:36 PM I guess I just don’t understand the binary element of this.
Why can’t this be done? This wouldn’t necessarily have to be in place of anything else, and it seems to be something that people are excited about thus potentially locking in a yes vote?
TheTravellers 08-23-2019, 12:38 PM I guess I just don’t understand the binary element of this.
Why can’t this be done? This wouldn’t necessarily have to be in place of anything else, and it seems to be something that people are excited about thus potentially locking in a yes vote?
I don't think the problem is with the execution of having both capital and social projects on the ballot/agenda/list, it appears to be political, and that's something we citizens have pretty much no control over, it's up to the Chamber, the power brokers, the Mayor, and maybe the Council.
LocoAko 08-23-2019, 02:04 PM It looks like all sixteen of the proposed projects that were presented are now on the ballot in MAPS4.
Oklahoma City Council to consider MAPS 4 package Tuesday, special election would be Dec. 10
Mayor David Holt and Oklahoma City Council will consider a potential MAPS 4 package at its Tuesday meeting, including a potential call for a special election on Dec. 10.
Post Date: 08/23/2019 2:00 PM
Mayor David Holt and Oklahoma City Council will consider a potential MAPS 4 package at its Tuesday meeting, including a potential call for a special election on Dec. 10.
The proposed MAPS 4 program includes all 16 of the projects that received a scheduled presentation during this summer’s special meetings. It would raise a projected $978 million over eight years, debt-free, funded by a temporary penny sales tax. It requires approval from Oklahoma City voters.
The MAPS 4 temporary 1-cent sales tax would keep Oklahoma City’s sales tax rate unchanged. It would take effect April 1 when the Better Streets, Safer City temporary sales tax expires.
On Tuesday’s agenda is a resolution of intent that defines the project list and budgets. Other items include introducing a call for the special election on Dec. 10, and introducing an ordinance for the temporary sales tax that would take effect upon voter approval.
The proposed MAPS 4 package is focused on neighborhood and human needs, as well as quality of life and job-creating initiatives. More than 70 percent of the funding is dedicated to neighborhood and human needs.
The proposed MAPS 4 program includes 16 projects:
Parks
Youth Centers
Senior Wellness Centers
Mental Health and Addiction
Family Justice Center operated by Palomar
Transit
Sidewalks, bike lanes, trails and streetlights
Homelessness
Chesapeake Energy Arena and related facilities
Animal Shelter
Fairgrounds Coliseum
Diversion Hub
Innovation District
Freedom Center and Clara Luper Civil Rights Center
Beautification
Multipurpose Stadium
The resolution of intent can be found here: https://www.okc.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=15024
Proposed allocations in millions
Parks $77
Youth Centers $110
Senior Wellness Centers $30
Mental Health and Addiction $40
Family Justice Center operated by Palomar $38
Transit $87
Sidewalks, bike lanes, trails and streetlights $87
Homelessness $50
Chesapeake Energy Arena and practice facilities $115
Animal Shelter $38
Fairgrounds Coliseum $63
Diversion Hub $17
Innovation District $71
Freedom Center and Clara Luper Civil Rights Center $25
Beautification $30
Multipurpose Stadium $37
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/maps4budget.pdf
AnguisHerba 08-23-2019, 02:23 PM Proposed allocations in millions
Parks $77
Youth Centers $110
Senior Wellness Centers $30
Mental Health and Addiction $40
Family Justice Center operated by Palomar $38
Transit $87
Sidewalks, bike lanes, trails and streetlights $87
Homelessness $50
Chesapeake Energy Arena and practice facilities $115
Animal Shelter $38
Fairgrounds Coliseum $63
Diversion Hub $17
Innovation District $71
Freedom Center and Clara Luper Civil Rights Center $25
Beautification $30
Multipurpose Stadium $37
$20M of the $87M is for bike lanes. Seems like a disappointment to me. $37M for a stadium is too much, and providing anything for the practice facility seems inequitable (I know it is city owned). Just my opinion.
So basically, whoever decided that those 16 projects deserved an official presentation also decided the final slate.
gopokes88 08-23-2019, 02:29 PM Ah now it makes sense.
The Aquarium was never given a public hearing because the aquarium was never going to be on the ballot. The hearings were somehwat a dog and pony show. If everything that got a hearing gets on the ballot it was just a PR stunt.
checkthat 08-23-2019, 02:35 PM Absolutely. The public hearings and comments bore zero fruit. Not a single proposal was altered based on the hearings. Why pretend that there is an open and transparent process with surveys and endless meetings when everything was already decided? Will this resolution be unanimously approved by the council?
jedicurt 08-23-2019, 02:40 PM So basically, whoever decided that those 16 projects deserved an official presentation also decided the final slate.
so they didn't really give any others a chance... hence why the zoo wasn't able to present
jonny d 08-23-2019, 02:41 PM Absolutely. The public hearings and comments bore zero fruit. Not a single proposal was altered based on the hearings. Why pretend that there is an open and transparent process with surveys and endless meetings when everything was already decided? Will this resolution be unanimously approved by the council?
Or maybe no one really had any major, material differences with the projects as shown?
catch22 08-23-2019, 02:57 PM Ah now it makes sense.
The Aquarium was never given a public hearing because the aquarium was never going to be on the ballot. The hearings were somehwat a dog and pony show. If everything that got a hearing gets on the ballot it was just a PR stunt.
The more Oklahoma City changes the more it stays the same.
TheTravellers 08-23-2019, 03:45 PM Hey Mayor Holt, I know you're on OKCTalk, care to respond to any of this?
:Smiley122 :Smiley122 :Smiley122
OKCRT 08-23-2019, 04:28 PM Hey Mayor Holt, I know you're on OKCTalk, care to respond to any of this?
:Smiley122 :Smiley122 :Smiley122
Why wouldn't they want this on MAPS when this would be the best bang for the buck out of any other project they are promoting IMO? Maybe this wouldn't benefit some of the special people but it would def. benefit OKC taxpayers. A world class Aquarium would bring more people downtown spending money the day it opened. This is a no brainer IMO. Build the thing!
emtefury 08-23-2019, 04:31 PM I may be naive, but I don’t see this passing. The social centers are not a help. A question I have to research is, does the city have the operating funds to staff and operate all of the proposed centers?
The only thing that can help, which annoys me, is the election is 10 Dec when 15% of the registered voters will vote.
emtefury 08-23-2019, 04:43 PM If you want a pulse of the town, check out the posts on next door. Refresh after this evening when people get home from work.
https://nextdoor.com/news_feed/?post=121712164
Laramie 08-23-2019, 04:47 PM Proposed allocations in millions
Parks $77
Youth Centers $110
Senior Wellness Centers $30
Mental Health and Addiction $40
Family Justice Center operated by Palomar $38 request $37 +1 million
Transit $87 request $87 million
Sidewalks, bike lanes, trails and streetlights $87 ($20 million, Bike Walk OKC Plan)
Homelessness $50 asked for $40 received +$10 million
Chesapeake Energy Arena and practice facilities $115 request - $135 -$20 million
Animal Shelter $38 requested $40 -$2 million less
Fairgrounds Coliseum $63 +25 million Hotel/Motel Tax = $88 million, request $97million -9 million + MAPS 3 excess funds, naming rights and other sources
Diversion Hub $17 request $18 million -$1 million less
Innovation District $71, $25 million for connectivity request $100 million
It is the intent of the Council to further allocate $10 million for the purpose of
matching up to $10 million raised from non-MAPS sources for an “innovation hall”
and related infrastructure where activities to grow our city’s innovation economy can
be facilitated. +6 million
Freedom Center and Clara Luper Civil Rights Center $25millon, request - $25 million
Beautification $30
Multipurpose Stadium $37 Requested $72 million -35 million less
IMO: A fair process for what those figures will address. Most money for community & neighborhood projects.
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