Because sports are life.

It would be nice if we left some of these areas (preferably around creeks) more natural with maintained dirt paths. Other than Bluff Creek I can't think of anywhere for kids to play and explore in the woods. I left out Hefner as most of the ancillary areas are littered with creeps.

It's a sad statement of society but l think you, at least, partially answered your question with the comment about Hefner Park.

You put soccer on you lose. We're ready for you punks this time.

You do realize there are tens of thousands of Latinos, Asians and people from other ethnic groups in OKC who could care less about American Football but are passionate about their native version of football?

You do realize there are tens of thousands of Latinos, Asians and people from other ethnic groups in OKC who could care less about American Football but are passionate about their native version of football?

right.... but this game has to end. Latinos are more passionate about family than preserving the neoliberal status quo, so lets end this nonsense and take care of more important things.

You put soccer on you lose. We're ready for you punks this time.

it is sad how much you hate OKC

I don't know why people are so against the soccer stadium. Seems there is more opposition to this than the horse related items. While I am for both, I think soccer is the only one that will benefit citizens in a way not tied to economic impact.

I think the soccer stadium on the cotton mill site would be a great amenity between the new park and the river stuff.

I don't know why people are so against the soccer stadium. Seems there is more opposition to this than the horse related items. While I am for both, I think soccer is the only one that will benefit citizens in a way not tied to economic impact.

I think the soccer stadium on the cotton mill site would be a great amenity between the new park and the river stuff.

The problem is, what will the soccer stadium be for? A few Energy games? I dont really see it being used for any other meaningful events, maybe used just a couple dozen times a year.

Seems the state fair arena is and would be used much more and is in desperate need to be replaced. Thats why I prefer arena over the soccer stadium.

The problem is, what will the soccer stadium be for? A few Energy games? I dont really see it being used for any other meaningful events, maybe used just a couple dozen times a year.

Seems the state fair arena is and would be used much more and is in desperate need to be replaced. Thats why I prefer arena over the soccer stadium.

I am not against a soccer stadium in principle. But I do think it's being proposed as sort of a "rescue" for the people who bought the cotton mill site. I think if we're going to do something like that, we need more control over what gets built next to it.

The problem is, what will the soccer stadium be for? A few Energy games? I dont really see it being used for any other meaningful events, maybe used just a couple dozen times a year.

Seems the state fair arena is and would be used much more and is in desperate need to be replaced. Thats why I prefer arena over the soccer stadium.

A pro rugby team has also expressed interest in playing here, fyi. The facility could also be used for other pro/semi-pro sports like arena football and the like. This would also give the city a venue for regional sports games, like high school championships - and it would be great for concerts too. There's a bunch of potential uses for this facility above and beyond soccer. It's well worth noting that in the proposal that was put forth (posted earlier in this thread), the renderings of the field show the field primarily configured for football.

I have an idea for MAPS4: instead of saying these are the five things we are going to build as part of the funding, gaining the funding and then having to scale it back, start small, saying these are the three things we are going to build, guaranteed and then if the tax collections come in how they are supposed to, we will build these other two. From Maps3, we were promised five aquatic senior wellness centers, brought back to four, regular wellness centers, back to five. We were originally supposed to get 70 miles of sidewalks, when the contracts came back, if I remember correctly, that came back in half. Then the city council doubled the budget to get it back to the 70 miles. The river improvements were scaled back. I think the streetcar was built as it was supposed to. And, of course the convention center and State fairgrounds were built, as planned.

Over promise and under deliver is never a good thing, especially when it comes to people's tax dollars.

A pro rugby team has also expressed interest in playing here, fyi. The facility could also be used for other pro/semi-pro sports like arena football and the like. This would also give the city a venue for regional sports games, like high school championships - and it would be great for concerts too. There's a bunch of potential uses for this facility above and beyond soccer. It's well worth noting that in the proposal that was put forth (posted earlier in this thread), the renderings of the field show the field primarily configured for football.

A pro rugby team? Yawn. That might draw a few hundred people at best and hardly necessitates a new soccer stadium. Plenty of other outdoor venues for concerts. Arena football is played in an arena. Whats the price tag on the soccer stadium again?

Not saying I would vote no, but I think a lot of people might vote no with a soccer stadium on the ballot. I also think its simply too soon for a soccer stadium and not the best use of resources. Maybe have a shorter time period for this MAPs and a smaller and more focused list of items.

A pro rugby team? Yawn. That might draw a few hundred people at best and hardly necessitates a new soccer stadium. Plenty of other outdoor venues for concerts. Arena football is played in an arena. Whats the price tag on the soccer stadium again?

Not saying I would vote no, but I think a lot of people might vote no with a soccer stadium on the ballot. I also think its simply too soon for a soccer stadium and not the best use of resources. Maybe have a shorter time period for this MAPs and a smaller and more focused list of items.

You said:

I dont really see it being used for any other meaningful events, maybe used just a couple dozen times a year
My reply to you was intended to call attention to the multiple uses such a facility would have, above and beyond soccer, and including actual groups that have already expressed interest in using the facility if it were built - not to debate the merits of the potential uses. The Energy might be the primary tenant but if marketed properly the facility would see much more use than just soccer - and such a facility definitely would be an asset to the city. Truthfully it doesn't really matter what it's used for as long as the use is compatible with the facility's purpose and the potential tenants can pay the bills for it's use.

It's also worth noting that OKC's primary outdoor venue - the Zoo Amphitheater - is likely going away (if the zoo's master plan documents posted here are to be believed). A facility such as this, along with the bandshell at Scissortail Park, would be able to absorb the loss of the Zoo Amp.

it is sad how much you hate OKC

It sounds, from his last post, he doesn't have a firm grip on a lot of things.

I don't think there are enough soccer fans in OKC that will vote in favor of building a 100 mil dollar soccer stadium. If this is included I bet this maps fails. I just don't see a fever pitch for soccer at this level. maybe if it were MLS you might convince the masses.

And then you add in a shiny new Horse barn and you have the makings of a Big NO Vote turnout.

The proposed soccer-American football MAPS 4 stadium is estimated to seat 10,000 chair back seats with expansion room; estimated construction cost will probably be in the $65-$80 million range: https://oklahoman.com/article/5624377/soccer-stadium-proposed-for-maps-4

Most costs will be initial infrastructure where if you were to expand the stadium another 10,000 to 20,000 seats (30,000 seat total) you're probably looking at $20-$35 million more, not near the cost of the original 10,000 seats since most of the stadium infrastructure will already be in place.

The placeholder draft of this stadium appears to be of good MLS quality: https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=585-Stadium-and-entertainment-project-proposed-for-MAPS-4

You said:

My reply to you was intended to call attention to the multiple uses such a facility would have, above and beyond soccer, and including actual groups that have already expressed interest in using the facility if it were built - not to debate the merits of the potential uses. The Energy might be the primary tenant but if marketed properly the facility would see much more use than just soccer - and such a facility definitely would be an asset to the city. Truthfully it doesn't really matter what it's used for as long as the use is compatible with the facility's purpose and the potential tenants can pay the bills for it's use.

It's also worth noting that OKC's primary outdoor venue - the Zoo Amphitheater - is likely going away (if the zoo's master plan documents posted here are to be believed). A facility such as this, along with the bandshell at Scissortail Park, would be able to absorb the loss of the Zoo Amp.

Being an outdoor concert venue is the best way to sell it IMHO. For football, you might get what? A few 3A and 4A games? All the 6A/5A schools have stadiums that size already and their championships are played in much larger stadiums.

I wounder if we could get on the Sand Valleyball circuit with that stadium, I'm guessing no, but that would be cool.

A pro rugby team has also expressed interest in playing here, fyi. The facility could also be used for other pro/semi-pro sports like arena football and the like. This would also give the city a venue for regional sports games, like high school championships - and it would be great for concerts too. There's a bunch of potential uses for this facility above and beyond soccer. It's well worth noting that in the proposal that was put forth (posted earlier in this thread), the renderings of the field show the field primarily configured for football.

arena football is played indoors ..

Being an outdoor concert venue is the best way to sell it IMHO. For football, you might get what? A few 3A and 4A games? All the 6A/5A schools have stadiums that size already and their championships are played in much larger stadiums.

I wounder if we could get on the Sand Valleyball circuit with that stadium, I'm guessing no, but that would be cool.

of course the new park is set up to host 15k outdoor concerts ..

Would be nice to have a music festival with the new park, the baseball ballpark, and a new soccer stadium as venues.

Ugh I was hoping since I hadn't checked on this in a while they would have come up with some cool projects. This will be the end of maps for sure, I will be blown away if this passes. Expecting people to get out and vote in numbers for a soccer stadium in okc is comical.

Would be nice to have a music festival with the new park, the baseball ballpark, and a new soccer stadium as venues.

Sounds good in fantasy land, but that would be a logistical nightmare even with them being so close together. You'd have to shut down the blvd. & build an absolutely massive security fencing area.

As a resident adjacent to South Lakes and a parent of a child who is active in soccer I would like to add that widening Meridian is not a solution. That will only drive more traffic. There is ample overflow parking east of the fields in the park area. The issue is lazy people who don’t want to walk. We walk to games from our neighborhood. I would hope we could focus on connecting the neighborhoods to the park as opposed to widening the roads. The neighbors in the area are the main users of the park and as an immediate resident I think it is foolish to accommodate traffic over the neighborhoods. Additionally, widening will solve nothing unless you address the on/off ramps and bridges at I44 and 89th, 104th, 119th, 134th and 149th.

Unfortunately, the city does not share your views.

I would expect any park expansion to be coupled with at minimum a widening of the roads.

And I would add that parking is a significant issue, especially during tournaments where there is simply not enough anywhere...during the last tourney SLSC utilized the parking adjacent to the playground and still had issues. Thankfully, no one parked near the neighborhood (as far as I'm aware) so we didn't have the issues observed in years' past, but any investment in the park will likely include an expansion in parking, amenities and infrastructure as previously stated.

That's a BIG if, though.

Agreed. I am amazed at the number of people that get off at 104th and then go over to Meridian to go south to 119th.

If you ever use google maps during high traffic periods, there's a smooth 75% chance it will direct you off at 104th to access the neighborhoods on 119th due to the queuing that occurs at the 119th street stop sign, and the 2 lane bridge over I-44.

The whole setup will continue to pose issues the more the area develops. Would be great to see a solution that addresses both the I-44 entry/exit bottleneck off 119th and the roads going west, but surely some of that would involve state/federal bureaucracies in addition to city interests.

Maybe the Amazon development/Lariat landing progress/airport land expansions/etc. will leverage some will out of the necessary parties. Meantime, I hope we can see some economic growth that makes the investment the city put into updating Portland ave. from 59th to 104th make sense from a consumer standpoint.

Would be nice to have a music festival with the new park, the baseball ballpark, and a new soccer stadium as venues.

Good idea, have some kind of music festival equivalent to Rocklahoma. Also, there will be plenty of events which could be staged in a stadium as opposed to the grassy banks Scissortail park will provide; especially once you have a group like SMG's management over the facility.

How long will the Zoo Amphitheater continue to operate?

Shows continue to be packed at Zoo Amp, I don't see that venue going away any time soon.

of course the new park is set up to host 15k outdoor concerts ..

I haven't really been following the park development closely, that is good to know.

Shows continue to be packed at Zoo Amp, I don't see that venue going away any time soon.

The Zoo Amp is operating on borrowed time. The Zoo trust has already made the decision to do away with it and use the space for expansion.

As much as people mourn buildings in the core being torn down, for me, this is much more of a tragic loss. The Zoo Amp is a treasure that was built in the 20s and is arguably the most iconic concert venue in the state.

Hasn’t the Zoo Amp always had some issues with having to shut down by a specific time due to noise and the animals? As the zoo grows, the exhibits keep on moving closer to the venue as well.

I get that it’s an iconic venue, but the zoos primary responsibility is to the animals. I do like the proposed use of that space.

I am not against a soccer stadium in principle. But I do think it's being proposed as sort of a "rescue" for the people who bought the cotton mill site. I think if we're going to do something like that, we need more control over what gets built next to it.

I don't see anything happening with cotton mill site for awhile at least not for Maps 4. They bought a contaminated lot expecting a big profit. Now its time to let them stew on it for several years until their willing to sale it for dirt cheap prices.

Agree 100% jn1780...


Producers Cooperative put its 43 acres just south of Bricktown on the market in early 2010 for $120 million, an asking price widely seen as well outside the realm of reason: $2,790,698 per acre, or $64 per square foot.

A year later, the mill offered to sell the city 15 acres as a convention center site for $41.8 million, sweetening the pitch by agreeing to contribute $3 million to extend Bricktown Canal through the property.--Oklahoman, MIze Sat, May 24, 2014: https://oklahoman.com/article/4850516/producers-cooperative-oil-mill-plans-to-sell-most-of-its-land-but-will-remain-just-south-of-oklahoma-citys-bricktown

Wouldn't say that the City was attempting to rescue them in any way. OKC wasn't willing to pay the high outrages asking price of nearly $2.8 million an acre in 2014 for the convention center; therefore, I doubt if they would pay anywhere near that to build a stadium.

The popularly of the stadium itself isn't a project OKC would be willing to spend that kind of money on land acquisition. Strawberry fields area or the city owned riverfront land may be a better fit.

Possible MAPS 4 projects revealed, meetings set


By Matt Patterson - June 14, 2019


https://nondoc-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/OKC_Maps4skyline-640x373.png

MAPS 4 project proposal meetings

The four city meetings are slated to begin in July and conclude in early August:


July 9 — Palomar Family Justice Center; parks; sidewalks, bike lanes, trails and streetlights; Freedom Center.
July 11 — Youth centers; beautification; Oklahoma State Fair coliseum; senior wellness centers; animal shelter.
July 31 — Transit; homelessness; Chesapeake Energy Arena and NBA enhancements; diversion hub.
Aug. 6 — Mental health; multipurpose stadium; innovation district.


According to the agenda released Friday afternoon, the Aug. 6 meeting is set to include discussion of other projects brought forward by council members along with project timing, revenue estimates and sustainable design efforts.

Link list meeting times: https://nondoc.com/2019/06/14/possible-maps-4-projects-revealed/

Note: The council votes Tuesday, June 18 on a schedule of four public hearings, where advocates of selected proposals will be invited to pitch their ideas in formal presentations.

MAPS 4 projects include transit

Plans also have funding for youth centers and State Fair Park coliseum

By William Crum, Oklahoman Staff writer, Saturday, June 15

MAPS 4 will be about people as much as, or more than, it will be about buildings.

That is the early takeaway from a list of projects to be considered by the Oklahoma City Council over the next few months.

“I really think that the sentiment of the public is for geographic distribution around the city, not look so much at downtown, and to make sure that the needs we’re meeting are the needs of 2019,” said Mayor David Holt.

The council votes Tuesday on a schedule of four public hearings, where advocates of selected proposals will be invited to pitch their ideas in formal presentations.

Transit, senior health and wellness centers, youth centers, sidewalks, trails, bicycle lanes, streetlights and parks are on the table.

Solutions are proposed to address social ills such as mental illness, high incarceration rates, domestic violence, and homelessness.

Economic development is addressed with investment in the innovation district; a new animal shelter will get consideration.

Freedom Center, where civil rights pioneer Clara Luper fostered her NAACP Youth Council, would be restored. The new State Fair Park coliseum, Chesapeake Energy Arena upgrades for the NBA's Thunder, and a multipurpose stadium for sporting events including soccer are in the mix.

"After 25 years of investing in quality of life amenities and entertainment amenities and visitor amenities," Holt said, "... maybe we can take a look now at things like homelessness, substance abuse, mental health and domestic violence.

"Same MAPS model, 1-cent temporary tax, but the subject matter can change to fit the times," Holt said Friday afternoon. "I think that's what's happening here with MAPS 4."

The city council's review sessions July 9, 11 and 31 and Aug. 6 will be open to the public. Besides the formal presentations, anyone with an idea will have a chance to speak.

The city council will settle on a list of projects to promise to voters who, should they agree, would authorize extending the 1-cent MAPS sales tax. Voters could be asked to extend the tax for seven or eight years to raise around $800 million. An election could take place in December once the council makes its decisions, which could be settled as soon as Labor Day. Voters approved the first Metropolitan Area Projects, or MAPS, sales tax in 1993.

How MAPS 3

compares

MAPS 3 has raised more than $800 million in sales tax proceeds and interest since winning voters' support in December 2009.

Major construction projects are MAPS 3's most visible legacy. The convention center complex includes a luxury hotel and parking garage, with total public and private investment in the range of $550 million. MAPS 3 built the Oklahoma City Streetcar line and is building the new downtown park, both $130 million-plus projects.

MAPS 3 also has added to the trails system, built sidewalks — though not as many miles as originally envisioned — and has built two senior health and wellness centers, with two more expected to begin construction soon.

As the MAPS 3 sales tax was expiring in 2017, voters approved a MAPS for streets extension to raise about $240 million for street resurfacing and related improvements.

MAPS 4 sales tax collections could begin April 1, 2020, after the MAPS for streets extension expires.

On the sidelines

In his State of the City address in January, Holt listed projects he said seemed to have some traction after his October call to residents to "dream big" and submit their ideas, mostly through the ideasformaps.com website: https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-4.

Among the ideas listed that day that appear to be out of the conversation: a streetcar extension, aerospace job training center and aquarium.

Holt proposed that day an endowment fund to produce income for ongoing expenses, such as operating costs and maintenance. That idea was well-received and remains alive.

So the one thing the south okc chamber asked for, aerospace job training center, is out.

IMO this will be DOA for many reasons.

First is timing. Right now and even on this board there is no consensus and ideas are all over the map. For this to pass you need some momentum but its middle June and no idea what will be in the bill. And the vote this year? No time to get word out and fully explain. If approved in Sep and voted in Dec thats a short window in one of the busiest times of year for voters.

I also think voters are opposite now vs prior votes. In past if they liked a few of the projects they overlooked those they didn’t. Now it feels like voters are looking hard at the items they don’t want and this will have a bigger bearing on votes. Maybe its because social media pushes info out faster?

Making it 8 or more years means zero other projects for at least 10-15 years. This is not good planning with how fast our city is/has changed. If some think Aquarium is needed thats gonna be at least 12 years away at best (approved in MAPS 5 plus a few years to build after money comes in). Thats a huge problem to me. These 8-10 year long MAPS are not wise because we are now much better off than prior to MAPS 1 (when we needed massive projects). We need to make MAPS shorter duration to keep a better focus on more immediate needs and ability to change as city changes. Look at the diff from 2009 to 2019.

Do a 2 year MAPS worth $200m. Then start to work on MAPS 5 ideas. For example, if Aquarium is not on MAPS 4 it might be more wanted in 2 years for MAPS 5. This gives hope to those who want it. Right now if we do a 8 year MAPS 4 and its not listed the Aquarium will never get done or even have a chance to get done. And those voters are going to lose interest in MAPS. Make each MAPS 2 years and you will keep more people invested and positive knowing they might get their project in the next go around in 2 years.

We need to maintain flexibility in what projects we build. An 8 year MAPS is stupid in my opinion. We don’t fund the city for 8 years at a time because things change. We are gonna regret doing 8 years and then no way to undo it if it passes. No way to get other projects voted on as needs and wants change.

I think the 8 year plan will fail and only then will they realize they need to scale these down to 2 year MAPS cycles.

I know some will disagree with me and thats fine. This is my opinion and will continue to be expressed to my rep. I will vote NO on any 8 year MAPS

Although I usually agree with civic leaders and have votes yes for all MAPS, I think the 8 year idea is not good. I don't really think it will be put to a vote in that fashion. I get the feeling that Mayor Holt might be getting carried away in his youthful zeal and speaking as if he will be Mayor that long. He probably will be Mayor as long as the law allows. but I'm not sure it is good politics to assume so.

So the one thing the south okc chamber asked for, aerospace job training center, is out.
Which is stupid on the city’s part. I’ll hold off on a final judgment until I see the ballot (naturally), but it’s looking like the end of my MAPS support.

Any ideas on what an aerospace job training center will cost?

Will we be training talented personnel to send them out-of-state for more lucrative job offers: think about it.

Any ideas on what an aerospace job training center will cost?

Will we be training talented personnel to send them out-of-state for more lucrative job offers: think about it.

It’s something the South Chamber has put a lot of time and effort in to... it would be a partnership where the airport trust donates the land in Lariat Landing, Maps would build the facility, corporate partners from Will Rogers and Tinker would help develop the curriculum and a partnership of metro vo-techs would provide the administration and staffing...

It’s will be a huge disappointment to civic leaders in south OKC if this isn’t included

Haven't seen anything from the South Chamber on an aerospace job training center; tried looking this up on Google with no success. Does anyone have any links?

Did find this link from Journal Record: https://journalrecord.com/2019/03/07/measures-to-expand-aerospace-training-in-oklahoma-advance/

Is this already funded?

Again, just looking for links & information since this was a pet peeve project of the South Chamber of Commerce who did extensive work on this project.

I heard about it in a response form David Greenwell but his office didn't provide any real detail. You would probably need to contact Elaine Lyons with the South OKC chamber. Her letter to the Oklahoman https://oklahoman.com/article/5630440/point-of-view-south-okc-community-sees-promise-opportunity-in-proposed-maps-4-projects

Haven't seen anything from the South Chamber on an aerospace job training center; tried looking this up on Google with no success. Does anyone have any links?

Did find this link from Journal Record: https://journalrecord.com/2019/03/07/measures-to-expand-aerospace-training-in-oklahoma-advance/

Is this already funded?

Again, just looking for links & information since this was a pet peeve project of the South Chamber of Commerce who did extensive work on this project.

I don’t know if there is a link with any details. I’m a member of the South Oklahoma City Chamber and although I’m not very involved, I have friends that are that told me about it...

It’s something the South Chamber has put a lot of time and effort in to... it would be a partnership where the airport trust donates the land in Lariat Landing, Maps would build the facility, corporate partners from Will Rogers and Tinker would help develop the curriculum and a partnership of metro vo-techs would provide the administration and staffing...

It’s will be a huge disappointment to civic leaders in south OKC if this isn’t included

Would this be like the Tulsa Tech center at Riverside airport in Tulsa? A&P and Flight school training?

Would this be like the Tulsa Tech center at Riverside airport in Tulsa? A&P and Flight school training?

A&P... I don’t think it would involve any flight training

I came across this rendering of the aquarium, which now seems to be scuttled.

The idea was to build it on the far south end of the Coop property and extend the canal to run right through it.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aquarium1.jpg

Wow. That would have been really cool. I hope an aquarium is included.

Pete, are both of structures (placeholders) the aquarium (?) because if they are it would have been helpful to have seen this information, renderings & estimated costs.

There are meetings scheduled; still if someone wants to pitch a last ditch effort for reconsideration--what have we got to lose:

The four city meetings are slated to begin in July and conclude in early August:


July 9 — Palomar Family Justice Center; parks; sidewalks, bike lanes, trails and streetlights; Freedom Center.
July 11 — Youth centers; beautification; Oklahoma State Fair coliseum; senior wellness centers; animal shelter.
July 31 — Transit; homelessness; Chesapeake Energy Arena and NBA enhancements; diversion hub.
Aug. 6 — Mental health; multipurpose stadium; innovation district.

Still time to rally behind the aquarium.

I came across this rendering of the aquarium, which now seems to be scuttled.

The idea was to build it on the far south end of the Coop property and extend the canal to run right through it.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aquarium1.jpg

the zoo leadership had done a bunch of work on the possible new aquarium including multi meetings with the coop developers/property owners .. all of they above were very on board and the thought was that it would anchor large scale retail in that area and a canal extention

really sad and suprised that this is not going to be included in maps 4 ... it IMHO was one of the few projects that the entire city would get behind ..

They sure are trying hard to make MAPS 4 not become a reality.

They sure are trying hard to make MAPS 4 not become a reality.

sadly i agree

I really don't see the appeal of an *edit: publicly funded* aquarium, but to each his own..

I really don't see the appeal of an *edit: publicly funded* aquarium, but to each his own..

somthing that would bring millions of visitors and tax dollars to OKC is the appeal ..

An aquarium really hits all the points: local entertainment, tourist attractions, generates tax dollars. One of a few projects that could actually generate money for operations.

If someone wants to lead the charge on trying to get the citizens behind this project, PM me and I will support you and try to help out the best I can.

I really don't see the appeal of an *edit: publicly funded* aquarium, but to each his own..

No, me either. 1) This is 2019, why an Aquarium ?!?! 2) Does the one in Jenx pull in enough money to make a massive multi million dollar city funded construction project make sense ?!?! 3) If the goal is to build a genuinely urban, cosmopolitan environment to help encourage modern diverse employment and innovation, why are we still chasing after marquee attractions mostly focused on an old fashioned definition of family and white suburbanites.

Young tech centered or creative centered people looking for cities to host them don't even sort of care about things like this. We don't even have an art museum that can unapologetically show a nipple without people losing their mind. We don't need a stupid aquarium. We're not even coastal. Not to mention we have 2 aquarium sections at our huge zoo. When do we finally get big and wealthy enough to stop just proposing the same lame stuff that our bigger neighbors have?!?!

What is exactly is the Chesapeake & NBA improvements? I haven't seen anything in regards to that.

why are we still chasing after marquee attractions mostly focused on an old fashioned definition of family and white suburbanites.
L.U.L.Z.

Like the Georgia Aquarium? It's in a downtown that is 54% black and sees approximately two and a half million visitors annually. Sure seems like old-fashioned, white, suburban fun. :rolleyes:

Put the Zoo Aquarium development in Strawberry Fields; it would be just as accessible as the Coop site.

An Aquarium would go over well as a downtown tourist attraction; especially since it would be in close proximity from the new convention center, Omni hotel, downtown hotels, Myriad Gardens & Scissortail Park.

L.U.L.Z.

Like the Georgia Aquarium? It's in a downtown that is 54% black and sees approximately two and a half million visitors annually. Sure seems like old-fashioned, white, suburban fun. :rolleyes:

don't point out facts ... no one wants those ..

Why isn't a MAPS aquarium on the COOP site viewed as a bailout to the land owners like the soccer stadium is? It seems pretty clear to me that any MAPS project that is planned for the COOP site will have massive land acquisition costs, including environmental cleanup, that many don't account for, dependent on whether they like the project. If the public is going to be expected to cleanup the COOP site, let's be honest about it and do it as a discrete project instead of through proxies with flashy renderings that will never be realized due to "unexpected" higher land costs.

As it currently stands, the Maps 4 initiative doesn't have my vote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXYZs4XW1lQ

I forgot to mention along with local entertainment, tourist attraction, and generating tax dollars, the aquarium would also provide be used an educational center for local students.