What is that in the roof line on the bottom left corner of the picture? Seems like a good place to collect water and trash. Why wouldn't you just have the pitched roof line go all the way up. Plenty of other flat roof area for mechanicals.

It's Classen Commons, a senior living center.

It's Classen Commons, a senior living center.

I am referring to the first picture (sketch) of the proposed apartment where the pitched roof has a big square cut out of the top

I am referring to the first picture (sketch) of the proposed apartment where the pitched roof has a big square cut out of the top

maybe a roof top deck??

I like this. A bit of a drag to add an additional curb cut to that side of Classen. It would be nice to share the northernmost curb cut with the Heart Hospital parking lot (which is generally 60%+ empty even during business hours in my observation).

I am neutral about the angled parking. There is a precedent for this just further southeast along Classen where the three office buildings each have similar parking to what is proposed here. Still, I'd rather see this stretch of road go on a road diet down to 2 lanes instead of 4, and use the balance of space to create their parking while not doing away with the grassy area between sidewalk and street.

Sad to lose the potential tower, but forward motion on this empty lot for housing of a different sort would be nice to see.

Since building the apartments won't depend on the deposits that never materialized, are we likely to see this break ground in the near to mid future?

At first I said “okay doesn’t look bad” but then I realized I said that because im so passionate about growing this city. In reality, this design aesthetic is so aggravating to me. Firms still design like this? What is this, the late 90’s/early 2000’s? Are we trying to become turtle creek/west village in dallas? I didn’t like Rand’s design either because the it felt like a hospital from the 90’s (awful renders btw, glass was unreadable) but atleast it didn’t try to aim to look like a McMansion apartment complex.

This will be an unpopular opinion on this board, but I think the lower-rise nature of this development fits with the surrounding area better than a tower would.

Plenty of room for towers a bit farther south.

I'm sure the Villa Teresa developers are happy not to be looking at a tower and large parking garage.

This project better fits the scale of the surrounding area.

What a weird capitulation. Is there no middle ground between trying to sell a $1 million two bedroom and just deciding, "the hell with it, we'll build midscale rental units"?

In OKC urban housing, it seems to be "swing for the fences or just give up on selling owner-occupied units."

Very odd, because in other major cities there are owner-occupied for-sale units at a variety of price points.

There are plenty of expensive condos for sale and that have sold in OKC.

This is a relatively small parcel so to do anything with amenities they had to go vertical. Obviously, that was too expensive for this market. There is a long list of for-sale projects that tried to do presale and then couldn't get off the ground that weren't competing with a project directly across the street.

It's not weird nor a capitulation. It's just the way they can get a loan and still make money, and if you can't do those things you can't develop any property.

low rise good, borrowing that roof tile from Rick Dowell, eh...

"borrowing that roof tile from Rick Dowell, eh..."
My thoughts as well lol

I still had a hard time believing that Villa Teresa had much say in this going away. It's not like looking at the Edge is aesthetically pleasing. I just think, here in Oklahoma, people have a hard time putting money down for something they can't really see yet (a little different from building a new home where you can customize anything).

Architecture is a matter of personal taste but I think I like the low-rise apartments better. It's hard to know from the rendering but I think this stands a chance of meshing better with Villa Teresa across the street.

As for the economics of the mid-rise proposal, it seems clear that there is not enough demand for condos at that price level in our area to support filling a bunch of empty lots with them. However, there is absolutely a niche for that type of development, since a lot (most?) of the ones that did get built have been successful. We just can't expect all of Downtown and Midtown to be filled with them. Don't forget that, even after the recent appreciation in home prices, with half a mile or so, you could be an urban pioneer in Metro Park for peanuts, or buy a single-family home in CTP for under $300k, or get something historic in Mesta for under $500k. Now obviously those options will all appeal to different people (do they have kids? do they have large dogs?) but their mere existence acts to reduce the already-small potential niche for condos like this.

To me *something* other than another medical office parking lot going into this lot is a good thing. It suggests that we've broken away from the pattern we were in several years back, where it was better to leave the land empty and "wait" for luxury condos to be economically viable than it was to build something and get the neighborhood going! That's a big deal! One interesting thing to contemplate is the seeming mis-match between the massive popularity of Downtown rental housing and mid-range to upper-mid-range for-sale housing. To my knowledge, the Downtown and Midtown apartment complexes are full and able to raise rents at will. There's clearly a huge difference between paying $1200 or $1500/month at LIFT or The Edge and buying a condo in what would have been The Elliott. We've got this sort of pipeline going now where a prosperous young person rents Downtown for a few years. Then maybe they get married and buy a house in Gatewood or Edgemere or Mesta. They retire, down-size, and move back Downtown into a luxury condo. It is interesting to think about why no one (outside of The Civic, I guess) has filled that middle niche in the area southeast of NW 13 and Classen (because it's happening all over Gatewood, GTP, and the OCU area!). I know it's not due to a lack of land but beyond that, who knows?

Eight-story Midtown condo tower scrapped, being replaced with three-story apartments
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/09/13/midtown-condo-tower-replaced-plans-three-story-apartments/8266270002/


Well, at least they save money by getting the spanish roof tile from Rick Dowell.

While I would have liked an 8 story tower in midtown, this actually looks pretty cool, and will infill that parcel of land nicely.

any images available that aren't behind the paywall? I always thought the 8-story building seemed out of place, but to each their own!

any images available that aren't behind the paywall? I always thought the 8-story building seemed out of place, but to each their own!
https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44619&p=1179942#post1179942

While I would have liked an 8 story tower in midtown, this actually looks pretty cool, and will infill that parcel of land nicely.

agreed. We can hopefully have the 8 storey condo tower (and taller) elsewhere as it would have been an underuse of most of the property, this is much better honestly.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44619&p=1179942#post1179942

Ah, thank you. I think those will be very cool in that area. The apartments looked like, well, apartments.

Ah, thank you. I think those will be very cool in that area. The apartments looked like, well, apartments.
Yeah I really like this type of architecture. I’m guessing it’s Spanish Revival type? I’m not an architect but it looks great.

Yeah I really like this type of architecture. I’m guessing it’s Spanish Revival type? I’m not an architect but it looks great.

If the build-quality is high it will be like a retro apartment complex in LA, if not, it will look like vacation rental apartments in Orlando. Hope they sink some bucks into this and build to last, both structurally and aesthetically.

Dirt work has started on this.

In addition to the Spaniard, the Villa Teresa hotel should be starting soon right across the street, as should the Classen Marquette housing project on the site of the old EMSA building.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard051522a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spanaird082822a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard092522a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spanaird112722a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spanaird011523a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard012923a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spanaird021923a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniardupdate1.jpg

I believe that this is the site of the White House Hotel that fell into disrepair and burned in the mid-late 1990's, is that correct? I couldn't find any old photos.

I believe that this is the site of the White House Hotel that fell into disrepair and burned in the mid-late 1990's, is that correct? I couldn't find any old photos.

Here is an aerial from 1969:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard1969.jpg

I believe that this is the site of the White House Hotel that fell into disrepair and burned in the mid-late 1990's, is that correct? I couldn't find any old photos.

At the time it was built (1961), it was the Downtowner Motor Hotel:

https://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc1596576/?q=downtowner

https://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc1702149/?q=downtowner (https://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc1702149/?
q=downtowner)

I know it was called the Myriad Motor Inn in the 80s and 90s.

Tons of reports on the police botter from that era which is a sure sign of rapid decline.

Side note, what was the hexagon shaped building where the Lift is now?

Side note, what was the hexagon shaped building where the Lift is now?

https://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4999&d=1384361066

https://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5001&d=1384361069

Thanks Pete.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard030523a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard030523b.jpg

Wow don't blink or they'll be finished! Can't wait to see the finished product! I love Spanish inspired architecture!

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard031823a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard051023a.jpg

https://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4999&d=1384361066

https://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5001&d=1384361069

We are never going to come close to having this level of luxury on offer these days. As someone born in the late 80s that had more than my fair share of good luck while growing up. The offerings for this place seem to be absolutely premium. Having an on call doctor at your apartment is absolutely tops.

We are never going to come close to having this level of luxury on offer these days. As someone born in the late 80s that had more than my fair share of good luck while growing up. The offerings for this place seem to be absolutely premium. Having an on call doctor at your apartment is absolutely tops.

isn't that a Hotel??

IIRC it was a residence hall for nursing school students, the Plaza Tower Hotel was demolished quite some time ago around 1988.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard060423a.jpg

Wow! This is moving along quickly.

Tile roof being installed:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard061823a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard072023a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard072923a.jpg

They aren't playing around on these.

Man, that’s a bunch of terra cotta roof tile. I know what it cost to replace the tile roof of my old house in Gatewood a few years ago, and that was (actually more than) a few years ago. Also it was a lot less tile. The good news is that it was 75 years old before it needed replacement.

Man, that’s a bunch of terra cotta roof tile. I know what it cost to replace the tile roof of my old house in Gatewood a few years ago, and that was (actually more than) a few years ago. Also it was a lot less tile. The good news is that it was 75 years old before it needed replacement.

How does the terra cotta hold up to hail damage? I have never had one but always liked how they looked.

Man, that’s a bunch of terra cotta roof tile. I know what it cost to replace the tile roof of my old house in Gatewood a few years ago, and that was (actually more than) a few years ago. Also it was a lot less tile. The good news is that it was 75 years old before it needed replacement.

How does the terra cotta hold up to hail damage? I have never had one but always liked how they looked.

How does the terra cotta hold up to hail damage? I have never had one but always liked how they looked. I own a house in Lincoln Terrace that is ~105 years old and has a terra cotta roof that is original to the home. I've watched hail bounce off it like a tennis ball. It has literally no effect on the roof.

The challenge is getting insurance coverage. I have had a couple insurance companies turn me down for homeowners insurance because the replacement cost of the roof is prohibitive.

Those roof tiles are probably concrete or some composite material rather than clay.

Most homes in California had concrete tiles, including my own. The initial cost is larger but the roof has incredible longevity and looks way better than asphalt shingles.

When I bought my house the roof was already 30 years old and 13 years later when I sold, it was still going strong. I can't imagine hail putting a scratch on those tiles.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard100423a.jpg

This project is so brilliant!! It brings so much character and uniqueness, yet it fits the area so nicely. Looking better than I hoped!

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard111123a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaniard123123a.jpg

I really like how this development is coming along! It is different and I like the Mediterranean style. Not everything has to be cookie cutter red brick. This adds an eclectic range and vibe to this area.