I agree. This is a case, however, where we have to look at our local governments to make rational decisions based on local situations. Oklahoma is not New York or LA/SF/Seattle. W Virginia only just finally reported it's first case. In places away from the coasts where people are more spread out, our situations should improve a bit more quickly than in densely populated areas. However, if they normalize things too soon, the spread just becomes worse again.

I put hope on warmer weather coupled with more worldwide sharing of current drug combinations that seem to work plus multiple entities working on effective vaccinations.

Wow... The coronavirus has spread to our Restaurant Closings thread now.... Just can't stop it!

^^^ it’s everywhere. I read this news update which has daily articles (except weekends) to get transportation related news and it’s even filled headlines here:
https://news.transportation.org/pages/dailyupdate.aspx

Wow... The coronavirus has spread to our Restaurant Closings thread now.... Just can't stop it!

90% of okctalk is now irrelevant because of this virus. The construction and othe economic activity happening are just going because of forward momentum. The engine has stopped.

90% of okctalk is now irrelevant because of this virus. The construction and othe economic activity happening are just going because of forward momentum. The engine has stopped.

Actually, I think most construction projects that have started will just continue on.

Hopefully for the rest, this is just a pause.

90% of okctalk is now irrelevant because of this virus. The construction and othe economic activity happening are just going because of forward momentum. The engine has stopped.


Actually, I think most construction projects that have started will just continue on.

Hopefully for the rest, this is just a pause.

None of the developers my company work with have showed any sign of slowing down..... In our meeting yesterday I was handed a list with over 40 new projects that our residential developers want to push out in the next couple of months and we work with two of the bigger players in the market here..... Now I know that could always change, change is inevitable in engineering, but at this point in time they are not slowing down a bit.

None of the developers my company work with have showed any sign of slowing down..... In our meeting yesterday I was handed a list with over 40 new projects that our residential developers want to push out in the next couple of months and we work with two of the bigger players in the market here..... Now I know that could always change, change is inevitable in engineering, but at this point in time they are not slowing down a bit.

I work in the construction industry. We are cautiously optimistic about projects that are near the starting line (financing lined up and in for permit) actually starting. All others will likely be put on hold especially if they don't have financing locked up. So I would expect a major drop off in new projects after the current ones get underway, and very little to no new development in 2021-22. It will be a rough next couple of years.

Question: Could someone verify for me whether Shogun in North Park Mall was still in operation prio to the COVD event? I had reservations there back in Feb, so I know they were in business then, but someone said they'd closed a few months ago. I hadn't heard anything like that. Their website is still up and there's no mention of closure on Yelp, but I thought I'd ask. I have no doubt they're closed right now due to the virus issue, but was just trying to verify they were in business before then. Thanks.

Question: Could someone verify for me whether Shogun in North Park Mall was still in operation prio to the COVD event? I had reservations there back in Feb, so I know they were in business then, but someone said they'd closed a few months ago. I hadn't heard anything like that. Their website is still up and there's no mention of closure on Yelp, but I thought I'd ask. I have no doubt they're closed right now due to the virus issue, but was just trying to verify they were in business before then. Thanks.

their last facebook post is from 22 hours ago... looks like they're open for takeout.

https://www.facebook.com/ShogunOKC/

^

There was a Yelp review on March 8th and I never heard anything about them closing before the virus mess.

Great, thanks everyone.

Hal Smith announced the immediate indefinite closure of ALL their restaurants.

Hal Smith announced the immediate indefinite closure of ALL their restaurants.

I personally can't stand those who run the show. Known too many people that worked for this organization that got screwed over. That aside, they employ(ed) a lot of people and served some really good food. That's horrible for them as many of their restaurants made good money for their servers so this was not a side job. I thought for sure Charlestons would continue with togo orders and limited staff.

Hal Smith restaurants employ well over 1,000 people.

And BTW, I've had the exact opposite experience with decision-makers in that company.

^^^ it’s everywhere. I read this news update which has daily articles (except weekends) to get transportation related news and it’s even filled headlines here:
https://news.transportation.org/pages/dailyupdate.aspx

I should have known you get that update :)

In a post on NextDoor, the owner (or manager) of Sauced (Donn Cross) said they've let all their workers go, and Picasso Cafe and Paseo Grill have done the same, so they can start getting unemployment benefits. Guessing that's happening all over, it's just not being said/posted.

Hal Smith restaurants employ well over 1,000 people.

And BTW, I've had the exact opposite experience with decision-makers in that company.

I'm going to assume your relationship and dealings are completely different than being a minion working for them.

In a post on NextDoor, the owner (or manager) of Sauced (Donn Cross) said they've let all their workers go, and Picasso Cafe and Paseo Grill have done the same, so they can start getting unemployment benefits. Guessing that's happening all over, it's just not being said/posted.

yes and that number is somwhere above 7.5 million nation wide or more up to mabye 10

that is on the low side a 5% rise in unemployment

Saturn Grill has closed; and also All About Cha on Covell in Edmond. Its very important to Shop Local and support small businesses during this time!

Hal Smith restaurants employ well over 1,000 people.

And BTW, I've had the exact opposite experience with decision-makers in that company.

Pete,
I agree totally. I have two grandchildren in college that worked for his restaurants and they have been treated very fairly. My grandson went through two failures (Holly's and Matty McMillen's) and all employees including part time servers were offered positions in other stores. Before they closed, they laid off a lot of servers and they were all told to apply for unemployment benefits. Not all companies would do that because it costs them money.
C. T.

McNellies group (tulsa, okc, little rock) layed off 700 people.

McNellies Group is still open, at least some of their concepts. Yokozuna in OKC is doing to-go orders and possibly deliveries. Meanwhile, here's another closure: Cimmaron Steakhouse on Meridian. Temporarily closed.

McNellies group (tulsa, okc, little rock) layed off 700 people.


Wow I had no idea mcnellies, even as a group, had that many people.

We closed STAG Lounge but we are fortunate that we have almost as many partners as employees so we are able to continue to pay our staff through the shut down

Pete,
I agree totally. I have two grandchildren in college that worked for his restaurants and they have been treated very fairly. My grandson went through two failures (Holly's and Matty McMillen's) and all employees including part time servers were offered positions in other stores. Before they closed, they laid off a lot of servers and they were all told to apply for unemployment benefits. Not all companies would do that because it costs them money.
C. T.

Their restaurant groups makes a lot of money. It's their money to do with as they please. But I would have hoped they would have continued to pay employees for up to 30 days and reevaluated then and given those employees a chance (while getting paid) to seek other employment. Basically saying "Well, they fired everyone and told them to get on unemployment" is not something to congratulate them for, IMO. You don't need to be told to go apply for unemployment and that's a person's first step once let go.

yes and that number is somwhere above 7.5 million nation wide or more up to mabye 10

that is on the low side a 5% rise in unemployment


I know some think the worse case scenario for this is 20% unemployment. Do we think that most of this is in the restaurant, retail and hospitality sectors? This is going to be wild...

I was picking up from Poblano last night and they said Bravo had closed all of their restaurants permanently. They also said one of their vendors supplies all the bread for Hal Smith restaurants. This vendor was informed they aren’t going to be paid for open invoices.

I was picking up from Poblano last night and they said Bravo had closed all of their restaurants permanently.

What does Bravo own?

I know some think the worse case scenario for this is 20% unemployment. Do we think that most of this is in the restaurant, retail and hospitality sectors? This is going to be wild...

No it’ll start hitting corporate America in the next two weeks.

I know some think the worse case scenario for this is 20% unemployment. Do we think that most of this is in the restaurant, retail and hospitality sectors? This is going to be wild...

Worst case scenario is substantially more than 20% unemployment. The world economy runs on the circulation of money and that circulation has ground to a halt. Additionally, this happened in the worst possible order. China is going to recover first with no market to produce for (except for their own). The economic inefficiencies that are going to arise from this if we stay locked down for another 6+ weeks is the major enemy to recovery. Capital is going to be confused for quite some time on where to invest (though at least one sector, O&G, is off the table for no less than a decade), and only after they start making decisions can supply chains ramp up.

Restaurants are one of the few things that can quickly ramp up since the infrastructure didn't really go away and the barriers to entry are comparitively low. The only problem restaurants are going to find in the long run is a significantly decreased market share because entire sectors of the economy are going to be in shambles.

On the bright side, many people who have lost their job will enter back into the service industry and the level of service in OKC should increase immensely in comparison to the previous 5 years of "sub-standard" service we've grown accustomed to.

Their restaurant groups makes a lot of money. It's their money to do with as they please. But I would have hoped they would have continued to pay employees for up to 30 days and reevaluated then and given those employees a chance (while getting paid) to seek other employment. Basically saying "Well, they fired everyone and told them to get on unemployment" is not something to congratulate them for, IMO. You don't need to be told to go apply for unemployment and that's a person's first step once let go.

I have been involved in cases where the company (large one) went to court to challenge unemployment. My grandkids are part time employees and they were treated very well and are pleased with how they were taken care of. I have no idea (but I will ask) whether there was any severance pay. I seriously doubt it, most companies don't give severance pay to part timers. As far as making a lot of money, it is locally owned and yes they have a lot of stores, but they still have bills even in a closed restaurant and like a lot of places, it's going to difficult to stay in business when you are paying leases and other things with zero income.
C. T.

Paseo Grill has closed along with Sauced

Paseo Grill has closed along with Sauced

Do you have a source on Sauced, saw on Facebook that they were still doing takeout and delivery as of this morning.

I have been involved in cases where the company (large one) went to court to challenge unemployment. My grandkids are part time employees and they were treated very well and are pleased with how they were taken care of. I have no idea (but I will ask) whether there was any severance pay. I seriously doubt it, most companies don't give severance pay to part timers. As far as making a lot of money, it is locally owned and yes they have a lot of stores, but they still have bills even in a closed restaurant and like a lot of places, it's going to difficult to stay in business when you are paying leases and other things with zero income.
C. T.

From what I have been told, employees (at least at two restaurants) were given little to no notice. Just fired. The fact they could close all stores at once without even a care to offer togo options and employ some of their wait and cook staff only shows how successful they really are. They can crawl back into their shell, pay the higher ups and their lease payments and wait this out and then just restaff. Not a good company or example IMO.

I look to places like The Good Egg group as excellent examples. They took time to reorganize and quickly shifted to togo options only. They will get my business now and going forward.

From Elliott Nelson (Mcnellies owner)

It’s been a trying week. Last Thursday was a normal day at work. And today, 9 days later, we’ve been forced to furlough 90% of our staff, we’ve lost 95% of our revenue despite our best carry-out efforts, and we face an uncertain future. However, we are not going to wither in the face of this challenge. We will fight to save our industry. We’ll do everything we can to rehire our staff, to restore their lives and insure that we’re here when this is all over. Thanks to everyone for their support over the last week. Now we start the hard work, with no end in site, to #saverestaurants

I had heard that Sauced laid off ALL of their staff, and since they are also owned by Paseo Grill which closed, I assumed Sauced had closed as well. Sorry.

It's all good, I doubt there's much of an effective difference anyways, which sucks.

@Pete Bravo Cucina Italiana closed most of their locations - permanently. Only a handful left for carry out and delivery. The other concept they own is Brio Tuscan Grille, looks to be a little better off. But for Bravo, that’s a ton of restaurants. I’ll miss the one here.

So, about Hal Smith closing... What am I to do with a gift card? When they re-open should I be able to use it?

So, about Hal Smith closing... What am I to do with a gift card? When they re-open should I be able to use it?

Yes, as long as they are not permanently closed, you should be good to go whenever they do re-open. Lots of people are buying gift cards from independently-owned restaurants that have been forced to close as a way of floating them some cash until this situation is over.

Yes, as long as they are not permanently closed, you should be good to go whenever they do re-open. Lots of people are buying gift cards from independently-owned restaurants that have been forced to close as a way of floating them some cash until this situation is over.

and most of those should just be considered gifts .. because if this goes much longer most of those independent restaurants won't reopen

Man, I was doing ok so far with all these closings, but the loss of Big Truck Tacos is a bit much. I'm officially over this pandemic!

Man, I was doing ok so far with all these closings, but the loss of Big Truck Tacos is a bit much. I'm officially over this pandemic!

Damn, are they out of business for good?

Per their Facebook page, they still plan on reopening once the crisis is over.

it's about offsetting your taxable income. if second business is making little to no revenue, or even a loss, then your expenses, as well as deductions for the costs of assets, can be used to offset your other taxable income. typically this is done to try and drop someone into a lower tax bracket, and thus results in paying less in taxes on that taxable income. a lot of times the money that is used to run and start the business may have been taxed at normal income rate, rather than capital gain rate depending upon it's source, and thus the loss of that money could actually end with a positive net amount when all taxes are figured due to lowering the incoming tax bracket back down over the course of a few years when this money is removed from markets or investments.

one of the best ways of looking at it is that the long term capital gains tax is paid on a rate based upon your tax bracket, and so if someone is able to lower their tax bracket, they might be able to free up much more in investments at a reduced capital gains rate, and thus come out very much in the positive.

Remember, active and passive losses are handled differently. There are limitations. And owning a losing enterprise of any kind can't be made whole by taxes. It buys you time with cash flow, but a loss is a loss. Nothing good comes from losses. Many of the tax schemes just delay taxes. For instance, extra depreciation benefits lower the cost basis and taxes are eventually paid.... hopefully at a lower capital gains rate, but there are substantial taxes. And if you turn the property over too quickly there are recovery penalties. Just be careful promoting any losing enterprise as a good thing.

Man, I was doing ok so far with all these closings, but the loss of Big Truck Tacos is a bit much. I'm officially over this pandemic!
It seems like these times would be a good opportunity for food trucks. If they sanitize properly, they can go and provide needed food relief all over the city. Having a truck come near to my house while I am sheltering would be a really good thing and with limited exposure. Easy to distance and there is no reason to touch surfaces. Win/win.

I've heard from a pretty reliable source that Ted's may be toast after this. Hopefully they can get some type of bailout or Hal Smith will take a bigger stake.

I've heard from a pretty reliable source that Ted's may be toast after this. Hopefully they can get some type of bailout or Hal Smith will take a bigger stake.

Do you mean the Mexican restaurant going out of business for good?

I've heard from a pretty reliable source that Ted's may be toast after this. Hopefully they can get some type of bailout or Hal Smith will take a bigger stake.

This would be pretty wild, and I wouldn't be surprised to see HSRG take a bigger stake. Actually have a feeling that HSRG will make out fairly well in the aftermath of all this, they may have the capital to buy up the rights to some independent places that otherwise wouldn't have made it.

I've heard from a pretty reliable source that Ted's may be toast after this. Hopefully they can get some type of bailout or Hal Smith will take a bigger stake.

They've sucked for a long time, but never enough for me to wish them to go out of business, bummer... On the upside, maybe folks will go to all the other Tex-Mex places around and find they're better than Ted's.

I've heard from a pretty reliable source that Ted's may be toast after this. Hopefully they can get some type of bailout or Hal Smith will take a bigger stake.

Have no idea how this could be possible with the volume of business I've been told that they do. If they go under, we will see 75% of restaurants go under.

Surprised about Big Truck as they have a drive thru and thats very helpful right now. Everyone has different situations though.

Have no idea how this could be possible with the volume of business I've been told that they do. If they go under, we will see 75% of restaurants go under.

Surprised about Big Truck as they have a drive thru and thats very helpful right now. Everyone has different situations though.

Unfortunately, I've read an article in the NY Times that says 75% of restaurants are at risk due to this shutdown. It's not a good situation, most of these places run with razor-thin profit margins in the first place.

Unfortunately, I've read an article in the NY Times that says 75% of restaurants are at risk due to this shutdown. It's not a good situation, most of these places run with razor-thin profit margins in the first place.

I've been saying this for a while.

Even when various restrictions are lifted, it's not like people are going to start packing into bars and restaurants again. It will take years to recover from this and most places were not making much money before.

I had a manager for a Hal Smith restaurant come at me pretty hard on Facebook, I asked why they were closing down rather than doing to go and delivery. He accused me of knowing nothing about the business and told me that they decided to give the food they had to their employees. I asked if they were paying their employee's and it was not answered back.

I've been saying this for a while.

Even when various restrictions are lifted, it's not like people are going to start packing into bars and restaurants again. It will take years to recover from this and most places were not making much money before.

Yeah. Even as someone who feels that the current shutdowns are the best course of action, I still recognize that this is a disaster for restaurants and small businesses in general. I think it's basically the best course of action out of a slew of terrible options. And I also agree with your other point, about behaviors being changed by this. I am certainly not planning on rushing back into crowded restaurants, concerts, or sporting events right away once the restrictions are lifted, and I normally spend a lot of my free time doing that. Will most likely try for less-attended events and places. I also expect there to be some initial capacity restrictions when things do reopen, would not be surprised to see bars, restaurants, concert halls, arenas, etc. limited to 50% capacity for a time.

It's all just a bad situation, and I don't really see any good solutions.

I had a manager for a Hal Smith restaurant come at me pretty hard on Facebook, I asked why they were closing down rather than doing to go and delivery. He accused me of knowing nothing about the business and told me that they decided to give the food they had to their employees. I asked if they were paying their employee's and it was not answered back.

I'd consider giving the guy some slack. He's lost his job for the foreseeable future - if they had decided to go to take out, he may still have a job. He might not agree with the decision, either. He's probably scared.

I'd consider giving the guy some slack. He's lost his job for the foreseeable future - if they had decided to go to take out, he may still have a job. He might not agree with the decision, either. He's probably scared.

It was all in Facebook Messager so its not like it was being monitored or anything, he just seemed like he was all in on the decision. My only reason for even responding was to ask why they decided to just shut down when this all seemed like it was just getting started. It was a very weird reaction.

Even the places doing carry out are doing very meager business and most are starting to realize it's not worth the expenses and trouble just to lose money.

I don't blame the Hal Smith group one bit; if anything, they were smarter about this than most.

The good news is that (from what I've heard) most of the CRE Investors and their Bankers have been pretty accommodating so far, not just for the restaurateurs but for tenants of all stripes. Though I would imagine the attitudes might change a bit if things are still shut down in a couple of months.

The good news is that (from what I've heard) most of the CRE Investors and their Bankers have been pretty accommodating so far, not just for the restaurateurs but for tenants of all stripes. Though I would imagine the attitudes might change a bit if things are still shut down in a couple of months.

We’ve been working with all customers to provide temporary relief, whether it is loan deferment for 4-6 months, converting P&I payments to interest only periods for up to 12 months, etc. If your bank isn’t working with their customers during this time, I’d be very surprised. On the flip side, we’re strengthening our relationship with current customers.