First and only time I have every ate bone marrow. It was great!

First and only time I have every ate bone marrow. It was great!

To each their own. My experience was less than great. Lol

To each their own. My experience was less than great. Lol

Out of the 15 (at least) times we ate there, both at the original location and the new one, we never had a bad experience (other than when we went at lunchtime on Sat recently and wanted brunch, but they had discontinued it by then :)). They stopped serving brunch on weekends, then eventually lunch altogether, and were only open for dinner. There was almost no other restaurant like them here when they opened, but I guess they've done their job and their time has expired. Guessing it's partly due to the many other restaurants that are similar enough to them that have opened, plus the splitting of the partnership, plus the expansion into other new restaurants. Their new space is pretty cool, be interesting to see what goes in there...

At this point nothing will be replacing the old Ludivine space. It will function as an event space and a secondary kitchen for catering.

Out of the 15 (at least) times we ate there, both at the original location and the new one, we never had a bad experience (other than when we went at lunchtime on Sat recently and wanted brunch, but they had discontinued it by then :)). They stopped serving brunch on weekends, then eventually lunch altogether, and were only open for dinner. There was almost no other restaurant like them here when they opened, but I guess they've done their job and their time has expired. Guessing it's partly due to the many other restaurants that are similar enough to them that have opened, plus the splitting of the partnership, plus the expansion into other new restaurants. Their new space is pretty cool, be interesting to see what goes in there...

My experience there was great, l was actually referring to the bone marrow dish. Luckily, l wasn't paying. :)

My experience there was great, l was actually referring to the bone marrow dish. Luckily, l wasn't paying. :)

Oh, gotcha. I really liked the bone marrow, but after getting it a few times, the novelty wore off. It was always interesting watching the people that had never had it be amazed at the Flintstones bone that came out to the table.

At this point nothing will be replacing the old Ludivine space. It will function as an event space and a secondary kitchen for catering.

Agreed. There is only a very small subset of people who can afford to eat out on a consistent basis at these pricing levels. There will be a substantial number of restaurants that close over the next 12 to 18 months. Definitely a shame.

What I would be interested to know:

What percentage of these closures has to do with certain restaurants not really being competitive in the market and what percentage has to do with the economy. I guess to some extent, it's always a both/and....BUT, I guess what I'm saying is some of these restaurants may have found themselves in a similar position with a food economy that was more in line with 2015 to 2020 and not the wacky world it has been for the last 3 years. I don't think Ludivine is in that group, but to some extent, there are just too many restaurants competing for attention in 2023.

If another 10-15 reasonably well known locals close between now and July 1st next year, I don't think I'd bat an eye. I'll be more concerned if it's well over 20.

There has been a major shift in the distribution of demand. Living downtown and working downtown I can tell you that the street-level activity in the CBD is less than half of what it was in 2019. Businesses reliant on white collar lunches and happy hours have been hit extremely hard. Lunch business specifically has shifted to the suburbs or the home. Tough for marginal performers to stay afloat.

There has been a major shift in the distribution of demand. Living downtown and working downtown I can tell you that the street-level activity in the CBD is less than half of what it was in 2019. Businesses reliant on white collar lunches and happy hours have been hit extremely hard. Lunch business specifically has shifted to the suburbs or the home. Tough for marginal performers to stay afloat.

Great and fascinating insight. Even though we’re now almost 4 years out from the pandemic, I think we still have yet to fully understand its effects in a lot of different areas

Agreed. There is only a very small subset of people who can afford to eat out on a consistent basis at these pricing levels. There will be a substantial number of restaurants that close over the next 12 to 18 months. Definitely a shame.

There's some truth to this. I've mentioned to my wife we would spend thousands just hitting all of the new high end spots to check them out once let alone add something into the mix/rotation. We already spend a significant amount on food & dining out as it is with our regular places. There are only so many people in the top 5 % or so who can really afford to frequent these places with regularity.

Agreed. There is only a very small subset of people who can afford to eat out on a consistent basis at these pricing levels. There will be a substantial number of restaurants that close over the next 12 to 18 months. Definitely a shame.

There's some truth to this. I've mentioned to my wife we would spend thousands just hitting all of the new high end spots to check them out once let alone add something into the mix/rotation. We already spend a significant amount on food & dining out as it is with our regular places. There are only so many people in the top 5 % or so who can really afford to frequent these places with regularity.

We've only once been to a high end place and that was paid for. As I know I've said we're easily pleased. The non-high end, mostly chain places we're regulars of were very, very slow in '21 to early this year. To the point we wondered how some stayed open. Just within the past few months most everywhere we go has returned to close to pre '20 crowds.

There has been a major shift in the distribution of demand. Living downtown and working downtown I can tell you that the street-level activity in the CBD is less than half of what it was in 2019. Businesses reliant on white collar lunches and happy hours have been hit extremely hard. Lunch business specifically has shifted to the suburbs or the home. Tough for marginal performers to stay afloat.

It’s tough in the suburbs as well. A good friend of mine had some very successful restaurants in south Tulsa/bixby. Several closed and post-pandemic operating conditions (massive inflation, food price increases due to inflation and other reasons, big time labor issues, etc) made him decide to throw his hands up and get out. The only restaurant he had left when he sold out is still hanging on by a thread but it’s been very difficult for the guys that bought him out. Just insane how difficult operating conditions are for restaurant owners vs 2019 and it’s only going to get worse for awhile unless economic conditions improve a ton.

It’s tough in the suburbs as well. A good friend of mine had some very successful restaurants in south Tulsa/bixby. Several closed and post-pandemic operating conditions (massive inflation, food price increases due to inflation and other reasons, big time labor issues, etc) made him decide to throw his hands up and get out. The only restaurant he had left when he sold out is still hanging on by a thread but it’s been very difficult for the guys that bought him out. Just insane how difficult operating conditions are for restaurant owners vs 2019 and it’s only going to get worse for awhile unless economic conditions improve a ton.

I know this is a restaurant thread, but I think we will see more of everything shut down. I know some in the retail sector are doing half of what they did just in 2019. Once super popular stores will start shutting down.
I hate to see restaurants close, but they say that is one of the hardest businesses to make money in. At this point, service at most places are spotty at best. The knock on fast food has always been that the employees didn’t care and people would say “that’s why they work in fast food”. Well, that kind of “I don’t care” attitude has crept in everywhere. I hate being asked to tip on to go’s or any place that I am actually not getting served (I tip 20-25%). Sorry for the ramble.

Just say "no tip" when presented with the option to tip at places that don't serve you. I do it all the time. By serve I mean taking my order after seating me. If the server does not check on me after bringing my food the tip goes from 20 to 15 %.

Just say "no tip" when presented with the option to tip at places that don't serve you. I do it all the time. By serve I mean taking my order after seating me and actually checking on my beverage and needs after bringing my order.

Is that all you have to do "Einstein"- I had no idea. My IQ is not 180.

I was not clear in why I said it and for that I apologize. I meant that there is an "I don't care" attitude within the service industry and when presented with the tip option by non-servers to customers it has heightened the attitude because some think they are entitled to it. I can't tell you how many times we have tipped a to go order only to get messed up/missing items. When the job of the person is to double check for accuracy- I feel screwed when this happens and I tip, so I have cut tipping when picking up.

Oh please.

Restaurants have always been an incredibly tough business, and high end places have a short window (5-10 years at most) to go from "next hot thing" to "institution". We are experiencing normal business changes in a high churn industry.

We are pumping more oil out of the ground in the lower 48 than at any time in history. Record consumption every day. Slowing economies don't do that. We have historic highs in employment and lows in unemployment. We are buying more goods than ever.

You do know Sears and K-Mart withered and died before the pandemic, right?

Oh please.

Restaurants have always been an incredibly tough business, and high end places have a short window (5-10 years at most) to go from "next hot thing" to "institution". We are experiencing normal business changes in a high churn industry.

We are pumping more oil out of the ground in the lower 48 than at any time in history. Record consumption every day. Slowing economies don't do that. We have historic highs in employment and lows in unemployment. We are buying more goods than ever.

You do know Sears and K-Mart withered and died before the pandemic, right?

Yes, I am very well versed in the retail world. I am just giving off my 2 cents like everyone else on here that this year we will see the closure of some past "trend forward" companies. Tastes change and buying has changed. The report came out today that said it costs about $8900 more this year to buy what it did in 2021. I know inflation happens, but the pace is faster.
If I tell you that a store I ran was a 4 million dollar clothing store in 2019 and this year will do 1.7 million, would you be concerned for the loss of jobs (which has already happened to a degree) and have the possibility of closing? edited to say 8900 not 8600

Yes, I am very well versed in the retail world. I am just giving off my 2 cents like everyone else on here that this year we will see the closure of some past "trend forward" companies. Tastes change and buying has changed. The report came out today that said it costs about $8900 more this year to buy what it did in 2021. I know inflation happens, but the pace is faster.
If I tell you that a store I ran was a 4 million dollar clothing store in 2019 and this year will do 1.7 million, would you be concerned for the loss of jobs (which has already happened to a degree) and have the possibility of closing? edited to say 8900 not 8600

First off...yes. I would absolutely be concerned. and I have lived through those downturns in 40 plus years of being an undercapitalized, ignorant small business owner/operator. I am a relic in my industry and the only reason I'm still around is because my property is paid for and I got nothing else to do. Plus, a few employees who are also old. I fully understand the modern world eliminating my type business, and realize the world goes on without me just fine. People still spending in my type business. They can't live without it. They just don't want to spend it with me.

My question about the clothing store you ran is if people are still buying clothes, just not at your store? We all get crushed by changing consumer tastes.

First off...yes. I would absolutely be concerned. and I have lived through those downturns in 40 plus years of being an undercapitalized, ignorant small business owner/operator. I am a relic in my industry and the only reason I'm still around is because my property is paid for and I got nothing else to do. Plus, a few employees who are also old. I fully understand the modern world eliminating my type business, and realize the world goes on without me just fine. People still spending in my type business. They can't live without it. They just don't want to spend it with me.

My question about the clothing store you ran is if people are still buying clothes, just not at your store? We all get crushed by changing consumer tastes.

I was able to get out of retail after 27 years when my wife started a new career. I’m in the process of doing the same. I don’t want to sell anything to anyone ever again.
It is partly consumer, partly over saturation with that brand, majorly the higher price points. That brand has been around over 50 years and has seen the different cycles of hot/not hot.
I applaud you for still putting up the fight. What store and I’ll become a shopper if it is something I need.

Yes, I am very well versed in the retail world. I am just giving off my 2 cents like everyone else on here that this year we will see the closure of some past "trend forward" companies. Tastes change and buying has changed. The report came out today that said it costs about $8900 more this year to buy what it did in 2021. I know inflation happens, but the pace is faster.
If I tell you that a store I ran was a 4 million dollar clothing store in 2019 and this year will do 1.7 million, would you be concerned for the loss of jobs (which has already happened to a degree) and have the possibility of closing? edited to say 8900 not 8600

What report claimed it cost 8900 more to buy what it did 2 years ago? Do you have a source or particulars as to what the report used to determine this? I am sceptical of this conclussion without knowing more.

I've seen it.

https://kfor.com/news/local/you-need-up-to-15000-more-just-to-live-like-you-did-in-2021-analysis-finds/#:~:text=Now%2C%20the%20report%20claims%2C%20the,l ower%20costs%20of%20inflation%20nationwide.

https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/4335556-you-need-up-to-15000-more-just-to-live-like-you-did-in-2021-analysis-finds/

I've seen it.

https://kfor.com/news/local/you-need-up-to-15000-more-just-to-live-like-you-did-in-2021-analysis-finds/#:~:text=Now%2C%20the%20report%20claims%2C%20the,l ower%20costs%20of%20inflation%20nationwide.

https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/4335556-you-need-up-to-15000-more-just-to-live-like-you-did-in-2021-analysis-finds/


An economic analysis by a group of Congressional Republicans may have you feeling nostalgic for January 2021.

Definitely a non-biased source.

I was able to get out of retail after 27 years when my wife started a new career. I’m in the process of doing the same. I don’t want to sell anything to anyone ever again.
It is partly consumer, partly over saturation with that brand, majorly the higher price points. That brand has been around over 50 years and has seen the different cycles of hot/not hot.
I applaud you for still putting up the fight. What store and I’ll become a shopper if it is something I need.

Appreciate the kind thoughts. Got one of those old auto repair shops you see around town. I'm one of those old guys that has a shop where his customers and employees are all gonna die off around the same time.

Definitely a non-biased source.

doesn’t mean it’s completely wrong. Things are certainly more expensive

Definitely a non-biased source.

Not arguing for or against it, just saying I've seen articles about the subject. Thanks.

Not arguing for or against it, just saying I've seen articles about the subject. Thanks.

Thanks for linking the articles.

Biased or not- things are def more expensive.

Appreciate the kind thoughts. Got one of those old auto repair shops you see around town. I'm one of those old guys that has a shop where his customers and employees are all gonna die off around the same time.

Understand that! I am sure you will live to be 200, but I do hear that mechanics are a dying breed.

Osteria closing its NH location Dec 31st. Reopening in 2024 in the Britton District. Airport location remains open. Per their FB page.

I eat at the airport location all the time. Great food. Decent wine selection. I’m surprised Nichols Hills didn’t support it.

What report claimed it cost 8900 more to buy what it did 2 years ago? Do you have a source or particulars as to what the report used to determine this? I am sceptical of this conclussion without knowing more.
If you pick and choose what is in your basket you might be able to make this case. Not hard to do if you are political and not necessarily ethical about trying to portray facts.

Osteria closing its NH location Dec 31st. Reopening in 2024 in the Britton District. Airport location remains open. Per their FB page.
Very glad it’s reopening. I like it.

I eat at the airport location all the time. Great food. Decent wine selection. I’m surprised Nichols Hills didn’t support it.

bet they just got a much better deal on rent in an area that’s still close to their target demographic.

^^^^^^^^^^\
Osteria is a Jonathan Stranger project, and so is El Coyote, also in Britton District. I don’t have specific insight, but my guess would be lease was coming up on Osteria while they were in the middle of opening El Coyote, and they wanted to locate Osteria nearer the other operation, take advantage of cheaper rent while still landing in an up and coming district; one with some buzz. Possibly someone in Britton gave them an offer they couldn’t refuse. Just a guess.

^^^^^^^^^^\
Osteria is a Jonathan Stranger project, and so is El Coyote, also in Britton District. I don’t have specific insight, but my guess would be lease was coming up on Osteria while they were in the middle of opening El Coyote, and they wanted to locate Osteria nearer the other operation, take advantage of cheaper rent while still landing in an up and coming district; one with some buzz. Possibly someone in Britton gave them an offer they couldn’t refuse. Just a guess.

I'm happy for them as it seems like a good move. I'm sad for me because living in Midtown the Britton District may as well be in Wichita for as often as I find myself there.

Osteria is in NH Plaza, which along with Classen Curve is owned by Washington Prime.

WP has to deliver to its investors which is why local tenants have been systematically replaced by regional/national businesses which have tried-and-true business models which allow them to pay higher rent.

However, Osteria spent a lot of money for AHMM to design and build their current space. That's a big thing to walk away from. Also, the new place will have a similar name but a different concept, which tells me they were not doing that well.

Osteria is in NH Plaza, which along with Classen Curve is owned by Washington Prime.

WP has to deliver to its investors which is why local tenants have been systematically replaced by regional/national businesses which have tried-and-true business models which allow them to pay higher rent.

However, Osteria spent a lot of money for AHMM to design and build their current space. That's a big thing to walk away from. Also, the new place will have a similar name but a different concept, which tells me they were not doing that well.

Based on the quote from Stranger, it seems that he'll be doing this himself vs. continuing to partner with Fabio Viviani.

I eat at the airport location all the time. Great food. Decent wine selection. I’m surprised Nichols Hills didn’t support it.

The place was always full whenever we went. There is little evidence that Nichols Hills "didn't support it".

The place was always full whenever we went. There is little evidence that Nichols Hills "didn't support it".

The last time I went the food wasn't that great. Chef Stranger always runs a great spot with great service, marketing, and cocktails, but Osteria and El Coyote have not been very good to me when it comes to the food. I really hope the new concept is a hit, but I am not sure I will be going for the main courses. I will probably just stick to cocktails.

The last time I went the food wasn't that great. Chef Stranger always runs a great spot with great service, marketing, and cocktails, but Osteria and El Coyote have not been very good to me when it comes to the food. I really hope the new concept is a hit, but I am not sure I will be going for the main courses. I will probably just stick to cocktails.

My experience as well. Osteria and El Coyote have great vibes, decor and service but the food has come up flat.

The last time I went the food wasn't that great. Chef Stranger always runs a great spot with great service, marketing, and cocktails, but Osteria and El Coyote have not been very good to me when it comes to the food. I really hope the new concept is a hit, but I am not sure I will be going for the main courses. I will probably just stick to cocktails.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Osteria was actually one of the most consistent places for me to really love what I ordered, although I admittedly always order the same one or two dishes lol.

The last time I went the food wasn't that great. Chef Stranger always runs a great spot with great service, marketing, and cocktails, but Osteria and El Coyote have not been very good to me when it comes to the food. I really hope the new concept is a hit, but I am not sure I will be going for the main courses. I will probably just stick to cocktails.

My ex-wife and I visited Osteria for a special occasion date night and it was not a great experience. To their credit, when I filled out the survey accordingly, they invited us back for a comped meal. While I was very appreciative, and we did return for the second meal, the food still just wasn't that great. Service was ok, but just not worth the money, for me. I'd be interested in seeing what happens when they move. I still haven't been over to the Britton District, I need to change that.

The place was always full whenever we went. There is little evidence that Nichols Hills "didn't support it".
Weird then that a restaurant would just up and move then if they were doing good especially considering what Pete just said about the firm they used to design their space. Why move further from the most expensive zip code in the state?

Weird then that a restaurant would just up and move then if they were doing good especially considering what Pete just said about the firm they used to design their space. Why move further from the most expensive zip code in the state?

Save on rent? I know that area, WH Prime is raising rents to get rid of those who had sweetheart deals. Not sure if they are one, but a raise in rent can be very good reason.

Weird then that a restaurant would just up and move then if they were doing good especially considering what Pete just said about the firm they used to design their space. Why move further from the most expensive zip code in the state?

73116/73120 are not the most expensive zip codes in the state, that belongs to 74137 in Tulsa. Maybe Nichols Hills has the most expensive property in the Okc area, but the zip code is lumped with the corridors to the north and south of it that have lower home values. I get what you meant though.

73116/73120 are not the most expensive zip codes in the state, that belongs to 74137 in Tulsa. Maybe Nichols Hills has the most expensive property in the Okc area, but the zip code is lumped with the corridors to the north and south of it that have lower home values. I get what you meant though.
Interesting. I’m wasn't sure about Tulsa maybe they have a zip code with more expensive homes I just know Nichols Hills is a premier area and I’m surprised this place would leave but as others have pointed out maybe they just couldn’t work arrangements on fair rent. Who knows. I have not tried their Nichols Hills location though. I’m guessing the Tulsa zip code is for the Southern Hills area. Very beautiful part of the city. OKC really doesn’t have anything like it.

Interesting. I’m wasn't sure about Tulsa maybe they have a zip code with more expensive homes I just know Nichols Hills is a premier area and I’m surprised this place would leave but as others have pointed out maybe they just couldn’t work arrangements on fair rent. Who knows. I have not tried their Nichols Hills location though. I’m guessing the Tulsa zip code is for the Southern Hills area. Very beautiful part of the city. OKC really doesn’t have anything like it.

Yep, that area is Southern Hills and the area butting up to Jenks. I love Nichols Hills and Southern Hills- wish there were more areas like those.

My ex-wife and I visited Osteria for a special occasion date night and it was not a great experience. To their credit, when I filled out the survey accordingly, they invited us back for a comped meal. While I was very appreciative, and we did return for the second meal, the food still just wasn't that great. Service was ok, but just not worth the money, for me. I'd be interested in seeing what happens when they move. I still haven't been over to the Britton District, I need to change that.

They also had offered me a comped meal, but to me if you mess up a dish that is a specialty, then I don't want to try anything that you might be making. It is clear your food is not going to be up to par. I appreciate the customer service, but what good is that if the food, that costs a lot of money to some, isn't very good?

We've been to Osteria a few times and they seemed to always have a pretty good flow of traffic. That said it is good, not great. I would bet it's more the cost to operate/rent than anything along with the unwinding of the partnership from the quote.

They also had offered me a comped meal, but to me if you mess up a dish that is a specialty, then I don't want to try anything that you might be making. It is clear your food is not going to be up to par. I appreciate the customer service, but what good is that if the food, that costs a lot of money to some, isn't very good?

I hear you. And I went back and forth on whether we should even take them up on it, but a free meal is a free meal. I did want to give them a chance to make it better, and the service was much improved. I, of course, tipped the server well, and appreciated the meal, but the food just wasn't worth the money, to me. Different strokes.

We've been to Osteria a few times and they seemed to always have a pretty good flow of traffic. That said it is good, not great. I would bet it's more the cost to operate/rent than anything along with the unwinding of the partnership from the quote.

Yes, both times we went they were full. That's the other reason I was surprised the food wasn't terrific.

There is a good chance that their licensing agreement with the airport requires them to have a non airport location open.

Oh please.

Restaurants have always been an incredibly tough business, and high end places have a short window (5-10 years at most) to go from "next hot thing" to "institution". We are experiencing normal business changes in a high churn industry.

We are pumping more oil out of the ground in the lower 48 than at any time in history. Record consumption every day. Slowing economies don't do that. We have historic highs in employment and lows in unemployment. We are buying more goods than ever.

You do know Sears and K-Mart withered and died before the pandemic, right?

lol

There is a good chance that their licensing agreement with the airport requires them to have a non airport location open.

Great point.

I've been told by someone involved in those airport licensing deals that it's "mailbox money" to them, as they just provide the name and a bit of advice on the front end, then get sent a check every month.

The airport gets the benefit of a known name, but that doesn't really work for them if the namesake goes completely out of business.

^^^^^^^^
This is accurate. Paradeis licenses their marks, they consult on product mix and aesthetic, but after that Paradeis runs everything and sends them a cut. Whether someone would call it a big cut or a small cut depends upon their own perspective. But after it’s all set up, “mailbox money” is the best way to describe it.

It's always sad to see a business close but like it or not, all of this is part of the continued maturation of the OKC market.

There has been a rash recently but that's bound to happen when you have hundreds of new places -- literally -- opening every year. The City is not growing fast enough to accommodate everyone, so the strong survive.

Think about how the OKC restaurant and bar scene has improved in the last 5-10 years. Huge leaps and bounds.

And almost every time a closure is announced, the most common reply is 'I haven't been there for a while'. The truth is that most of us like the idea of a place, but everyone ultimately votes with their wallet.

There are other factors squeezing profits (rent, food costs, labor costs) but there are still thousands of places continuing to operate while others can't hack it. It's simply because there was not enough business to make these restaurants profitable, and that is much more a function of customers choosing to spend their money elsewhere.

There are still dozens of new places in the pipeline. And most of the vacated spaces will not stay empty for long.

Capital's in midtown seemingly has closed

This is a list of the places that closed in 2023. What have I missed?

Yuzo
Ludivine
Osteria
Sunset
Louie's MT
1492 MT
Scatch
Capitals MT
City + State
Cafe do Brasil
Oak and Ore
Ned's Starlite Lounge
The Catch - BI
Elk Valley Brewery
Twisted Spike Brewery
Cross Timbers Brewery
Moni's
The Mantle
The Copley - 23rd
Black Mesa Brewery
City Garden
VZD's
The Eleanor
Shiki

Wow I just learned from this post ^^^ about Capitol's Ice Cream closing. Makes sense. Last time I was in there the portions were smaller, the place was dirtier. Had all the hallmarks of a restaurant in a death spiral.