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BoulderSooner
09-11-2023, 09:22 PM
1492 midtown location is closing. Casady square still going. With that and Louie’s also closing, curious if landlords are substantially raising rents right there or if something else is going on.

increase in rent

1492 midtown will hit 16 years in a few weeks a hell of a run

PhiAlpha
09-11-2023, 11:30 PM
increase in rent

1492 midtown will hit 16 years in a few weeks a hell of a run

Seems like a poor time to increase rent. I guess we'll see if all these spots stay vacant. I'm sure the market will work it out.

Jeepnokc
09-12-2023, 07:10 AM
Are the buildings that midtown 1492 and Louies owned by same group?

Pete
09-12-2023, 07:19 AM
Are the buildings that midtown 1492 and Louies owned by same group?

Yes, both the buildings are owned by Midtown Renassaince.


Including Cafe do Brasil, that's 3 empty restaurants within a stone's throw. Sure hope they have other tenants lined up -- all are great spaces.

jccouger
09-12-2023, 08:22 AM
It doesn't help that the legions of ad agencies, PR firms, and marketing companies in OKC don't have any real ideas on how to promote and differentiate businesses either.

They just do a press release to legacy media and then charge their clients for getting something in the Oklahoman or a TV channel (if they are very, very lucky) which can't possibly translate into any real business.


And then I come across the young woman who owns and runs Boomtown Creamery and I knew instantly she was going to kill it, even charging many multiples over ice cream from Braum's. That business has been a wild success, and I could see it coming a mile away. Conversely, it's become pretty easy for me to predict the demise of many places I cover long before they open.

Every time I cover a new place, I make a mental prediction and it's very rarely wrong.

Ethically do you see yourself as a journalist & try not to be a critic? I'd be interested in hearing your genuine opinion more often.

BoulderSooner
09-12-2023, 08:28 AM
Yes, both the buildings are owned by Midtown Renassaince.


Including Cafe do Brasil, that's 3 empty restaurants within a stone's throw. Sure hope they have other tenants lined up -- all are great spaces.

just those those in the thread know 1492 will be open for service until OCT 14th

Pete
09-12-2023, 08:35 AM
Ethically do you see yourself as a journalist & try not to be a critic? I'd be interested in hearing your genuine opinion more often.

I separate my reports from comments.

What I post on the news page, articles and social media is free of commentary. But obviously I voice my opinion in the discussion threads on OKCTalk.

I am absolutely not a food critic. Really, no one in this town is remotely qualified for that nor does anyone behave as a real critic should: not take freebies, try to go in anonymously and receive the same treatment and meal as any customer, etc. Everyone in OKC who tries to pass themselves off as a critic are really grifters taking free meals and drinks and then writing positively in return. So, I just post the menus and let people try the food and make their own decisions.

At times, I am forced into the role of Devil's Advocate simply because there are big things happening here that do not get covered correctly or objectively. TIF is by far the biggest example but also public incentives in general. Because I point out the downside, people like to brand me as being 'anti-TIF' or something similar.

The reality is that OKCTalk has become such a monster that people now come at me from all angles. Used to piss me off but I've learned there is great power in just keeping on while ignoring haters and people with clear agendas.

For example, there is a very long list of people that not only post 'never going to happen' but it's really ramped up with the Olympics reporting. Lots of people calling me out personally, making wild claims about being an arm of the Chamber (what??), that I have no idea what I am talking about, that the idea is laughable... I do my best just to ignore. The OKCTalk track record more than speaks for itself and when the formal announcement comes later this year, people who are paying any sort of attention will realize we were all over this long before it was on anyone's radar.

catcherinthewry
09-12-2023, 08:39 AM
Pete, I think you perform a great service for the community and I can't imagine OKC without OKCTalk. I am so much better informed about everything OKC than before I found OKCTalk. Keep up the great work and ignore the naysayers.

warreng88
09-12-2023, 08:49 AM
I separate my reports from comments.

What I post on the news page, articles and social media is free of commentary. But obviously I voice my opinion in the discussion threads on OKCTalk.

I am absolutely not a food critic. Really, no one in this town is remotely qualified for that nor does anyone behave as a real critic should: not take freebies, try to go in anonymously and receive the same treatment and meal as any customer, etc. Everyone in OKC who tries to pass themselves off as a critic are really grifters taking free meals and drinks and then writing positively in return. So, I just post the menus and let people try the food and make their own decisions.

At times, I am forced into the role of Devil's Advocate simply because there are big things happening here that do not get covered correctly or objectively. TIF is by far the biggest example but also public incentives in general. Because I point out the downside, people like to brand me as being 'anti-TIF' or something similar.

The reality is that OKCTalk has become such a monster that people now come at me from all angles. Used to piss me off but I've learned there is great power in just keeping on while ignoring haters and people with clear agendas.

For example, there is a very long list of people that not only post 'never going to happen' but it's really ramped up with the Olympics reporting. Lots of people calling me out personally, making wild claims about being an arm of the Chamber (what??), that I have no idea what I am talking about, that the idea is laughable... I do my best just to ignore. The OKCTalk track record more than speaks for itself and when the formal announcement comes later this year, people who are paying any sort of attention will realize we were all over this long before it was on anyone's radar.

So, people who have never paid attention to anything you have ever said, ever?

warreng88
09-12-2023, 08:52 AM
Seems like a poor time to increase rent. I guess we'll see if all these spots stay vacant. I'm sure the market will work it out.

Can't speak for everyone, but usually commercial loans on commercial properties are not fixed for 30 years or sometimes not even 20, more like 5-10 years and then they renew. If rates don't drop in the next couple of years, we will see a lot of issues in 2025 due to people locking in for five years at 3.5 or 4 percent and when the note matures, they will be looking at double that. Might be some properties going on the market due to inability to service debt and tenants moving out due to increased rent.

Pete
09-12-2023, 08:56 AM
Pete, I think you perform a great service for the community and I can't imagine OKC without OKCTalk. I am so much better informed about everything OKC than before I found OKCTalk. Keep up the great work and ignore the naysayers.

Thanks very much. I should say I get absolutely tons of positive feedback in addition to the small but vocal group of haters.

If you think about it, OKCTalk is a pretty major disruptor in OKC. Completely independent, not in any way connected or beholding to the traditional money and power brokers; I always tell people, "You don't have anything I want so you have zero power over me". This is a completely foreign concept to most.

I have always been particularly suspicious of local PR firms who get paid a lot of money to control the narratives for their clients. I don't need them at all... I can go get information, I don't need to sit on my arse waiting for a press release that are usually nothing more than overt propaganda. But when I first moved back and against my better instincts I met with one of them; someone very connected with the old guard. This person said, "So you must have a leak at ADG to get all this inside information..." First, I was deeply insulted. Then I realized they had no idea what I do and how architecture firms work... An architect would lose their job for leaking client info and what would they have to gain anyway? It just demonstrated that so many people here operate from the assumption that everyone engages in back-room deals and favor trading and corruption -- and that is the only way to achieve success in this town.

The idea someone just works their butt off and has figured out a better way is not even considered by most of these people. They are also the ones that swear they want growth and change in OKC but in reality, care much more about protecting their turf.

It's been a fascinating learning curve and I will admit I had been very naive.

Pete
09-12-2023, 09:03 AM
So, people who have never paid attention to anything you have ever said, ever?

They pay attention which is why they follow OKCTalk in the first place...

It's always, always driven by some agenda. Otherwise, why on earth would you get so upset and personal over something that will be so very cool for OKC? Jealousy, being threatened, feeling snubbed... There is usually something specific behind such a hostile response other than your typical "where will people park and we need to fix the roads" internet rhetoric.

FighttheGoodFight
09-12-2023, 09:14 AM
I'm convinced there is a subset of people that are just unhappy and negative about everything. Mixed with the internet where they post or comment about everything amplifies it.

CatholicSooner
09-12-2023, 09:39 AM
If you like craft beer make sure you hit up TWISTED SPIKE before the end of the month. They are closing their doors.
Okc craft breweries that have fallen this year: Elk Valley, Black Mesa, and now Twisted Spike. Word on the street is Vanessa House is next

Wow...that is sad but I guess inevitable with how many popped up so quickly

CatholicSooner
09-12-2023, 09:43 AM
I just started going to taphouses and almost none are convenient to access. As far as quality, Stonecloud has been the best, by far.

Agree. I'm a big fan of stonecloud and sky dance. Coop will always be my first love though

CatholicSooner
09-12-2023, 09:45 AM
elk valley also had pretty terrible customer service .. and always had a strange mix of beers on draft ..

I really wanted to like it and gave them way more rope then usual .. but it was not a surprise at all when they closed ..

OK beer. Awesome can designs

corwin1968
09-12-2023, 01:37 PM
Agree. I'm a big fan of stonecloud and sky dance. Coop will always be my first love though

Sky Dance is new to me and Coop's "DNR" is one of my standards. I need to hit both brewhouses. I tried American Solera in Edmond, last weekend and really liked their B.A. dark ale (it looked and tasted closer to a stout or barleywine). Then we tried The Fried Taco, which I really liked.

Urbanized
09-12-2023, 02:59 PM
Skydance's NDN Time has replaced COOP's Native Amber as my favorite locally-brewed beer. Similar profiles, but NDN time tastes so much fresher. They have a really nice tasting room, also, but I gladly order NDN Time anytime I see it on a handle elsewhere, and have even asked for it to always be featured on the taps of the bar in which I carry an ownership interest.

Pete
09-12-2023, 03:03 PM
Skydance's NDN Time has replaced COOP's Native Amber as my favorite locally-brewed beer. Similar profiles, but NDN time tastes so much fresher. They have a really nice tasting room, also, but I gladly order NDN Time anytime I see it on a handle elsewhere, and have even asked for it to always be featured on the taps of the bar in which I carry an ownership interest.

Ooh, you know I also love Native Amber.

I will definitely try NDN.

amaesquire
09-12-2023, 03:05 PM
Skydance's NDN Time has replaced COOP's Native Amber as my favorite locally-brewed beer. Similar profiles, but NDN time tastes so much fresher. They have a really nice tasting room, also, but I gladly order NDN Time anytime I see it on a handle elsewhere, and have even asked for it to always be featured on the taps of the bar in which I carry an ownership interest.

I had it over the weekend. So good.

jedicurt
09-12-2023, 03:17 PM
Ooh, you know I also love Native Amber.

I will definitely try NDN.

hmmmm... starting to think we need to do an okctalk brewery takeover one day! lol

jompster
09-12-2023, 07:01 PM
hmmmm... starting to think we need to do an okctalk brewery takeover one day! lol

That isn't a bad idea. :D

Richard at Remax
09-13-2023, 10:08 AM
I had two NDN's walking around the Scissortail Night Market on Friday. They were quite good. Almost went down too easy...

corwin1968
09-14-2023, 05:41 PM
Skydance's NDN Time has replaced COOP's Native Amber as my favorite locally-brewed beer. Similar profiles, but NDN time tastes so much fresher. They have a really nice tasting room, also, but I gladly order NDN Time anytime I see it on a handle elsewhere, and have even asked for it to always be featured on the taps of the bar in which I carry an ownership interest.

Picked up a six pack of NDN Time and will try one a bit later. Looking forward to it and hope I like it! I'm kind of finicky about what beers I really enjoy, being very partial to barrel aged stouts, dark Belgian style ales and fruit sours.

corwin1968
09-15-2023, 12:53 PM
Picked up a six pack of NDN Time and will try one a bit later. Looking forward to it and hope I like it! I'm kind of finicky about what beers I really enjoy, being very partial to barrel aged stouts, dark Belgian style ales and fruit sours.

I tried the NDN Time last night and I can see why people like it. I prefer darker, sweeter, maltier, fuller bodied and less hoppy beers, but it was a good representation of it's style of beer. I'll have to try more of their products.

goldenHurricane22
09-17-2023, 09:09 PM
I stopped by Twisted Spike today. Was talking with the owner, and he mentioned that there was a distributor/partner interested in picking up the beer brand, so sounding like it will be available again sometime next year, in stores only. Now, how many of their beers actually continue, not sure.

soonerguru
09-17-2023, 09:39 PM
This sounds awful to say, and it's not directed at Twisted Spike at all because I am not familiar with their beer, but honestly I don't care for much of the local beer brewed in OKC. There are a couple of exceptions here and there but I would much rather drink beers that I'm almost forced to buy in a liquor store or at Whole Foods at this point, which, without going into much detail, are mostly but not exclusively the high quality European and Asian brands beer connoisseurs appreciate.

I'm actually annoyed when I go to a restaurant or bar in OKC and the only beer options are the usual domestic cardboard choices (Bud, Coors, Miller, et. al.) or local brews and nothing else. Honestly I just quit going to places like that as much as I do aspire to "shop local."

I also prefer the big-name American legacy "micro breweries" beer to the OKC versions, such as the Full Sails, Sam Adamses, etc.

I'm excited that OKC has so many brewers giving it a go, and I hope they continue to hone their craft, but I'm not super surprised to see that some aren't making it when we had a sudden explosion of like 14 or whatever in about five years.

The other thing to consider is that people just don't drink as much as they used to, and the whole, "let's go out and have several beers" thing on weeknights is kind of a dwindling thing. This is confirmed by multiple marketing studies of American consumers, and OKC is the dead-eye center test market for American tastes.

So, I would imagine brewery tasting rooms do a bit better on the weekends but are they really destinations, or just the place where one starts the evening? They usually don't have very good if any food, so unless you're there to pound beer, it's not going to be a place you spend much time. On top of that, if the beer itself is ho-hum, visiting such a place seems more like a novelty tour than a regular place to hang out.

soonerguru
09-17-2023, 09:53 PM
hmmmm... starting to think we need to do an okctalk brewery takeover one day! lol

This sounds like a killer idea, despite my post above! :)

And now, I want to know what bar Urbanized has ownership in and I'm willing to give NDN time a shot.

Will Dearborn
09-19-2023, 12:50 AM
are mostly but not exclusively the high quality European and Asian brands beer connoisseurs appreciate.

legitimately curious which "high quality" Asian beers you're referring to here

soonerguru
09-19-2023, 12:55 AM
legitimately curious which "high quality" Asian beers you're referring to here

It was only a matter of time..............

Mballard85
09-19-2023, 07:47 AM
It was only a matter of time..............

As am I, I'd honestly like to see a list of what you typically go for. I feel like if you know where to look the local beer scene is very good. It's very segmented though, most hang their hat on something they do well, and then stock the board with average beer. If you're looking for something that isn't crazy in regards to the style or adjuncts, you should give Big Friendly a try, it's the best brewery in OKC.

victorparknews
09-19-2023, 08:00 AM
Sorry if this was mentioned, but if it hasn’t…
Leo’s Barbecue has shut down its location at “Homeland store at 625 NE 36th St, but reopening down the street at the original location at 3621 NE Kelley Ave,” according to the FoodDoodFeed.
The article shows a picture of an old location that apparently is being renovated.
https://thefooddoodfeed.substack.com/p/leos-barbecue-is-going-back-to-kelley

TheTravellers
09-19-2023, 08:57 AM
Sorry if this was mentioned, but if it hasn’t…
Leo’s Barbecue has shut down its location at “Homeland store at 625 NE 36th St, but reopening down the street at the original location at 3621 NE Kelley Ave,” according to the FoodDoodFeed.
The article shows a picture of an old location that apparently is being renovated.
https://thefooddoodfeed.substack.com/p/leos-barbecue-is-going-back-to-kelley

We were driving by there the other day and wondered why it looked like it was getting renovated (or torn down). It probably should be razed and rebuilt, floor had holes in it, it was just in super-bad shape when we were there a few years ago.

warreng88
09-19-2023, 09:05 AM
The Copley on 23rd street is closing on 10/15.

Pete
09-19-2023, 09:21 AM
The Copley on 23rd street is closing on 10/15.

I'm surprised they lasted this long.

Their concept was always confusing to me and I never saw many people in there.


It's great space so hopefully something new goes int.

warreng88
09-19-2023, 01:23 PM
I'm surprised they lasted this long.

Their concept was always confusing to me and I never saw many people in there.


It's great space so hopefully something new goes int.

Agreed. There was a great playroom in the back, but you had to rent it out, not just anyone could go back there. The outside area in the back was underutilized as well.

Mballard85
09-19-2023, 01:44 PM
Agreed. There was a great playroom in the back, but you had to rent it out, not just anyone could go back there. The outside area in the back was underutilized as well.

Found this to be very strange, we went in with our 5 year old and were told we had to rent it. There was a lady in the room with one child, just seemed like a waste of a very cool amenity.

belder
09-19-2023, 02:00 PM
[QUOTE=soonerguru;1244323]This sounds awful to say, and it's not directed at Twisted Spike at all because I am not familiar with their beer, but honestly I don't care for much of the local beer brewed in OKC. There are a couple of exceptions here and there but I would much rather drink beers that I'm almost forced to buy in a liquor store or at Whole Foods at this point, which, without going into much detail, are mostly but not exclusively the high quality European and Asian brands beer connoisseurs appreciate.

I'm actually annoyed when I go to a restaurant or bar in OKC and the only beer options are the usual domestic cardboard choices (Bud, Coors, Miller, et. al.) or local brews and nothing else. Honestly I just quit going to places like that as much as I do aspire to "shop local."

I also prefer the big-name American legacy "micro breweries" beer to the OKC versions, such as the Full Sails, Sam Adamses, etc.

I'm excited that OKC has so many brewers giving it a go, and I hope they continue to hone their craft, but I'm not super surprised to see that some aren't making it when we had a sudden explosion of like 14 or whatever in about five years.

The other thing to consider is that people just don't drink as much as they used to, and the whole, "let's go out and have several beers" thing on weeknights is kind of a dwindling thing. This is confirmed by multiple marketing studies of American consumers, and OKC is the dead-eye center test market for American tastes.

So, I would imagine brewery tasting rooms do a bit better on the weekends but are they really destinations, or just the place where one starts the evening? They usually don't have very good if any food, so unless you're there to pound beer, it's not going to be a place you spend much time. On top of that, if the beer itself is ho-hum, visiting such a place seems more like a novelty tour than a regular place to hang out.[/QUOTE

Everyone has different tastes in beer. That being said, if you are going to talk about Oklahoma craft beer you are going to have to compare to other states and their craft beer. I have been to many different cities and always go to the local breweries. Oklahoma City matches quite well with other cities. Try a Prairie Bomb and see why this particular beer is being sold throughout the world.

BoulderSooner
09-19-2023, 02:36 PM
The other thing to consider is that people just don't drink as much as they used to,

beer drinking is down drinking is not

CatholicSooner
09-22-2023, 02:53 PM
I don’t instagram but elk valley posted they are starting back up

Urbanized
09-22-2023, 05:39 PM
It was from a new account though (elkvalleybeer vs elkvalleybrewery), which makes me wonder if someone - maybe a larger group - bought the brand and will simply produce the product for store shelves. Elk Valley's biggest strength was always their branding. To be clear I have no special insight; this is only speculation. I did hear second hand that John Elkins had sold all of his equipment and was personally done with running a brewery.

Edit...just found this on their website:


In the early 2010s, our beers was making the rounds and winning awards at national beer festivals as home brew. At the time, craft beer enthusiast John Elkins was simply passionate about making beer he loved and found that others enjoyed it too.

Since 2014, Elk Valley has been a staple craft beer found in restaurants and bars all over Oklahoma; until our OKC facility was unfortunately closed at the end of 2022.

Since then, we’ve been working on bringing back the same beers you know and we love!

We’re excited to announce that we have a new facility, a bigger team, and are gearing up to bring more of our craft back to your local bar or restaurant fall-winter 2023!

Follow us on Instagram for the lastest updates @elkvalleybeer

PhiAlpha
09-22-2023, 05:48 PM
beer drinking is down drinking is not

Need to start building whiskey distilleries lol.

Urbanized
09-22-2023, 05:50 PM
^^^^^^
Gotta say I enjoyed touring and sampling Woodworks Distilling in the Britton District a couple of weeks ago. I'm far from a whiskey expert but really enjoyed the taste profiles, also.

Pete
09-22-2023, 06:30 PM
^^^^^^
Gotta say I enjoyed touring and sampling Woodworks Distilling in the Britton District a couple of weeks ago. I'm far from a whiskey expert but really enjoyed the taste profiles, also.

Such nice people and really a great job on remodeling that old theater.

They make almost everything from tequila to vodka, so lots of options at their bar and you can have El Coyote deliver (or maybe just pick up?).

goldenHurricane22
09-23-2023, 02:09 PM
Not quite sure where to put this, as these are restaurants opening and not closing, but after several months of inactivity, Levitate Grill in the Deep Deuce Aloft opened their bar area--not sure when the full restaurant is planned to open. But sounds like it is still happening. Then in the Deep Deuce shipping containers one of the small suites (1B) has new signage for "Vaca Boba" that is supposed to open soon.

DowntownMan
11-03-2023, 04:19 PM
monis by rose creek closed today.
Was a really good local Italian place!

scottk
11-03-2023, 06:08 PM
monis by rose creek closed today.
Was a really good local Italian place!

Yeah, super bummed by this. Locally owned, they lasted almost 10 years and had great dishes and amazing bread!

Bowser214
11-04-2023, 06:56 AM
I just can't help but wonder if it was for health reasons? They had a loyal customer clientele.

mugofbeer
11-04-2023, 11:47 AM
I just can't help but wonder if it was for health reasons? They had a loyal customer clientele.

It does seem odd they didn't sell if this was planned.

Mballard85
11-07-2023, 03:07 PM
It appears Moni's have closed their doors.

Celebrator
11-07-2023, 05:06 PM
It appears Moni's have closed their doors.

Uh, ^

CatholicSooner
11-08-2023, 08:14 AM
Moni's was great

I really wish Gabriellas hadn't moved locations

Mballard85
11-08-2023, 08:40 AM
Uh, ^

Yeah I didn't read that, I'm an idiot and take all forms of ridicule lol

Celebrator
11-08-2023, 10:57 AM
Yeah I didn't read that, I'm an idiot and take all forms of ridicule lol

No worries, sorry, just was wondering...lol

OkieBerto
11-08-2023, 11:15 AM
Scratch in the Paseo just posted that they are closing down. This is one of my favorite spots and it kills me that a place with such a talented chef is closing down.

TheTravellers
11-08-2023, 11:17 AM
Scratch in the Paseo just posted that they are closing down. This is one of my favorite spots and it kills me that a place with such a talented chef is closing down.

Oh man, we just saw their "new" menu a few days ago (not sure when it was actually new) and were going to go back (been there a few times, always excellent), bummer.

Pete
11-09-2023, 09:11 AM
Scratch in the Paseo announced they are closing -- believe they are already done.

BoulderSooner
11-09-2023, 10:44 AM
Bistro 22 in Edmond closed last week (the sister restaurant of Signature Grill) their lease was up at the end of Oct and they could not agree on acceptable new terms.

a bummer because it was one of our favorites. very small space but it was great

BG918
11-09-2023, 12:28 PM
Scratch in the Paseo announced they are closing -- believe they are already done.

Are they affiliated with the Scratch in Norman?

Pete
11-09-2023, 12:36 PM
Are they affiliated with the Scratch in Norman?

Yes.