I'm wondering if that is going to be basement space...

I'm wondering if that is going to be basement space...

They have garages on the first floor with the residences above.

They have garages on the first floor with the residences above.

So, the garage entrances are on the back? Renderings only show fence, grass and steps in front.

The first phase (the middle section) will have garages facing grand:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand122320a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand122320b.jpg

Cool. Do the others only have surface parking in the back?

The other two phases have rear-entry garages.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand022121a.jpg

I really feel like this development will be extremely impressive more so once it’s built.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand032821a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand050121a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand061321a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/64100grand080121a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6000grand092621a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand110721a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand110721b.jpg

I’d say this area would be contender for the biggest transformation in OKC other than maybe Core to Shore. Just incredible how much is been built here in a short amount of time.

https://twitter.com/TylerBHolmes/status/1470465501189050373

The stone is starting to be installed on the north side (2nd photo):

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand010922a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand010922b.jpg

Just filed permits to finish this project with a building on either side of the one currently under construction.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand012522a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand012522b.jpg

Great news! This will look beautiful in person once finished.

Just filed permits to finish this project with a building on either side of the one currently under construction.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand012522a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand012522b.jpg

Good to hear. I was curious if construction costs were going to delay the next phases of this development.

What is this architectural style called? I really like it.

What is this architectural style called? I really like it.

Georgian, I think.

What is this architectural style called? I really like it.

I would call this Beaux-Arts.

Here's an example in Brussels:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Ensemble_de_trois_immeubles_Art_nouveau_Avenue_Bru gmann_176_178_Avenue_Moli%C3%A8re_Bruxelles_Avenue _Moli%C3%A8re_177_179.jpg/1280px-Ensemble_de_trois_immeubles_Art_nouveau_Avenue_Bru gmann_176_178_Avenue_Moli%C3%A8re_Bruxelles_Avenue _Moli%C3%A8re_177_179.jpg

Try Chateauesque. It's not Georgian.

Try Chateauesque. It's not Georgian.

Not really Chateauesque either, I think Beaux-Arts fits the bill (Georgian came to mind first, and it looks like Beaux-Arts is similar, but more ornate, so I cede to KayneMo, because he probably has way more knowledge about architecture than I do :)).

Different names for the same thing. French Renaissance Revival, Second Empire, etc. Worked well in 18th Century France, but I question what business it has in 21st Century Oklahoma City.
17308

Thanks! I think you got it with the French Renaissance Revival. I love it - looks quite posh.


Different names for the same thing. French Renaissance Revival, Second Empire, etc. Worked well in 18th Century France, but I question what business it has in 21st Century Oklahoma City.
17308

How do you decide what architecture has any business in OKC? Like, does it have to originate here or something?

I kinda despise ranch style houses. I think they are an inefficient waste of space whose function is behind us and are extraordinarily bland. I wouldn't consider buying one. But if you like it, more power to you. It's business here is that it fits someone's fancy.

You raise an excellent question, and I expect that in trying to respond I will stray into TLDR territory.

No, Oklahoma doesn't really have a vernacular architecture--it's too young to have one--so it's always looking outside for its influences. In a way this means that anyone can pick whatever style they want to adopt for their developments; someone's going to like it, someone isn't. I feel that this doesn't adequately justify the sort of world buffet approach to architecture in OKC. It has a climate; we could respond to that. It has different areas that warrant different densities of development; we could respond to that. It has prevailing building techniques and local materials, and I think we can and should be responding to that.

I guess it's the last of these that offends me most about this development (and many others). Looking at the thing being constructed, it's clear it's just that same as every other stick-build, weatherboard, thin veneer of facing material, apply-decoration-to-suit-taste building as everything else that's being built here. If it were lovingly crafted in hand-hewn limestone, I'd probably still object, but maybe less so. Could we try and pluck our inspiration from somewhere more relevant than France 200 years ago?

^

Tim knows!


The one thing that seems to be a small bit of a legit Oklahoma theme is the extensive use of red brick, which is in relatively inexpensive supply due to our unique red clay soil.

Until I traveled around the country and saw largely frame houses, that had never occurred to me.

Pete. it's so interesting that you bring up the use of brick. I think people that have lived their whole lives in OK don't appreciate the degree to which that is unique. I mean, you also see it in Texas, but other than that...

It's amazing to me that they are building $750K and up houses in the suburbs of St. Louis that are frame on three sides with some decorative brick on the front. I think the houses are so tacky. It's like "we understand that brick is preferential to frame and we'll try to have the part that faces the street in brick" but the rest of the house is just siding. I ask builders why that is and they say that brick is crazy expensive here. Also, the bricklayers union makes the cost of installing it just out of reach for anything other than a few custom homes.

There are things about the OKC built environment that leave much to be desired. But the fact that most new suburban homes continue to be brick and stone rather than oceans of siding is a big plus.

As for this development at 6100 Grand, I think what they are doing is elegant looking and a nice complement to the area.

I’ll just add that I also didn’t appreciate the use of brick until I went to college in California and began to realize I much preferred the quality of homes in Oklahoma. It’s my wife’s favorite part, aesthetically speaking, about living in Oklahoma after spending all her life in the Pacific Northwest.

Mississippi Blues, I will say that frame/shingle housing can be appealing in the right context. If you've ever been to Nantucket or Cape Cod or Maine or any of the beaches or small towns up in New England, brick wouldn't look right up there, and the houses look very quaint and well done. And actually I personally think the timber houses in the Pacific Northwest are attractive, if nestled in trees, etc. But nothing looks worse than boxes of siding facing other boxes of siding on flat lands in the Midwest. I mean so blah...

No disagreement about houses/architecture being situational. My uncle lives on the coast of New Hampshire and the brick found in Oklahoma would be a travesty compared to what can be found there. Also, some of the most picturesque homes/property in America can be found in the rural parts of the Pacific Northwest, but when you get into most of the newer subdivisions on the outskirts of Portland, Seattle, and their suburbs, it can get uninspiring pretty quickly even with the beautiful evergreens, though they do help.

…The one thing that seems to be a small bit of a legit Oklahoma theme is the extensive use of red brick, which is in relatively inexpensive supply due to our unique red clay soil.

Until I traveled around the country and saw largely frame houses, that had never occurred to me.
Yep, you only have to travel north to Wichita to see extensive use of frame-only and partial-frame for residential. It’s startlingly different from OKC. I personally grew up in a red brick postwar tract house there, but those were the exception rather than the rule there, and I’ll guarantee that the brick didn’t come from just down the street as does the brick for so many houses in OKC.

Regarding the architectural style of this development I’d also say that this project is clearly targeted at the Nichols Hills old money crowd, who often tend to embrace VERY traditional European/Old World building styles such as this one. It’s probably a really good choice from a business standpoint.

Speaking of Oklahoma brick, when I moved back about 6 years ago I was immediately drawn to my present home, a modest early 60's brick ranch house. It always just felt 'right' to me and still does.

It was only after a few years had passed that I realized it was built the same year and out of the same brick as the house my parents bought new and where I spent my entire childhood near 63rd & Meridian.

Pete. it's so interesting that you bring up the use of brick. I think people that have lived their whole lives in OK don't appreciate the degree to which that is unique. I mean, you also see it in Texas, but other than that...

It's amazing to me that they are building $750K and up houses in the suburbs of St. Louis that are frame on three sides with some decorative brick on the front. I think the houses are so tacky. It's like "we understand that brick is preferential to frame and we'll try to have the part that faces the street in brick" but the rest of the house is just siding. I ask builders why that is and they say that brick is crazy expensive here. Also, the bricklayers union makes the cost of installing it just out of reach for anything other than a few custom homes.

There are things about the OKC built environment that leave much to be desired. But the fact that most new suburban homes continue to be brick and stone rather than oceans of siding is a big plus.

As for this development at 6100 Grand, I think what they are doing is elegant looking and a nice complement to the area.

I don't really understand this bit. what do you mean "frame" here? I don't think anyone frames a house with red brick anywhere? It's always like wooden frame with a brick veneer if it has brick, just like siding is a veneer.

What is unique about the brick here though? I've only lived in OK, AR, MO, KS, and DC. There is brick there too?

I really do like stone work though. When done well, it looks teriffic!

^

"Frame" means wood siding.

You raise an excellent question, and I expect that in trying to respond I will stray into TLDR territory.

No, Oklahoma doesn't really have a vernacular architecture--it's too young to have one--so it's always looking outside for its influences. In a way this means that anyone can pick whatever style they want to adopt for their developments; someone's going to like it, someone isn't. I feel that this doesn't adequately justify the sort of world buffet approach to architecture in OKC. It has a climate; we could respond to that. It has different areas that warrant different densities of development; we could respond to that. It has prevailing building techniques and local materials, and I think we can and should be responding to that.

I guess it's the last of these that offends me most about this development (and many others). Looking at the thing being constructed, it's clear it's just that same as every other stick-build, weatherboard, thin veneer of facing material, apply-decoration-to-suit-taste building as everything else that's being built here. If it were lovingly crafted in hand-hewn limestone, I'd probably still object, but maybe less so. Could we try and pluck our inspiration from somewhere more relevant than France 200 years ago?

yeah just gonna agree with tim here and say this whole development is weird and a bummer

This is an interesting graphic that shows how much more common brick is in this part of the country:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/brick1.jpg

Surprised brick is not higher in the NE with so many row homes that are brick. My mom's row home in Philly is brick, as are all of them in that whole part of town, so I was not as stunned by the brick development here as some were...

Surprised brick is not higher in the NE with so many row homes that are brick. My mom's row home in Philly is brick, as are all of them in that whole part of town, so I was not as stunned by the brick development here as some were...

That graphic is for new home builds in 2019.

^

"Frame" means wood siding.

Ahhh ok gotcha.

And pretty cool graphic!

Surprised brick is not higher in the NE with so many row homes that are brick. My mom's row home in Philly is brick, as are all of them in that whole part of town, so I was not as stunned by the brick development here as some were...

Then you have homes like the one I grew up in, which was a brick front and vinyl on the remaining three sides. That was a very interesting graphic and definitely fits my perception of the lack of vinyl here (for obvious weather-related reasons) compared to the Northeast.

This is an interesting graphic that shows how much more common brick is in this part of the country:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/brick1.jpg

Very interesting stats. Thinking back (and doing a little research on street view to remind myself), all but one of the buildings I have lived in in Oklahoma had red brick, and that includes the dorm up at OSU.

Very interesting stats. Thinking back (and doing a little research on street view to remind myself), all but one of the buildings I have lived in in Oklahoma had red brick, and that includes the dorm up at OSU.

Originally from Ohio, I can attest to the vinyl stat for that region. Brick homes are very rare and few and far between up there. Almost all vinyl siding.

Interesting comparison with an attached development in Highland Park (Dallas).

https://www.redfin.com/TX/Dallas/4502-Abbott-Ave-75205/unit-201/home/143839609

Interesting comparison with an attached development in Highland Park (Dallas).

https://www.redfin.com/TX/Dallas/4502-Abbott-Ave-75205/unit-201/home/143839609

I like ours a lot better. It's not as plain looking

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand020922a.jpg

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand033022a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6000grand052922a.jpg

Pulling out of those garages will be challenging!!!

Looks like there is about 1.5 times or slightly more of the length of a car in front of the garage. It’s plenty of room to turn and enter straight in. I have similar and never have an issue.

This project is still so bizarre to me. It reminds me of the Bluth house in Arrested Development out in the middle of nowhere. I guess once it's built up around that stretch of land it'll make more sense. There's nothing that appeals to me about this block of housing, but I'm not the target audience. Will be interesting to see it all develop.

Are people going to be allowed to have guests park there? There is NO room in that little driveway thing!

Are people going to be allowed to have guests park there? There is NO room in that little driveway thing!

There will be guest parking in the back; a small shared lot.

Pulling out of those garages will be challenging!!!

The farthest spot over by the stairs will be. All the other spots you can swing out without having to driver forward than reverse again. I guess you will either have to back in or back out all the way to the other side of the driveway. Wouldn't surprise me if that spot ends up not actually being used for a vehicle. "This unit comes with free storage!"

Very interesting stats. Thinking back (and doing a little research on street view to remind myself), all but one of the buildings I have lived in in Oklahoma had red brick, and that includes the dorm up at OSU.

that map sucks, the SW should be separate most homes in Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona and west Texas are Stucco by far and the southeast coast is not stucco WTF? Maybe south florida?

A few things relevant to recent posts in this thread:


There will be 3 buildings built here; this is just the first one. I myself had a bit of fun upthread questioning the aesthetics, but if you are commenting negatively about the way it looks displaced from the surroundings you should probably at least wait for the others to be completed before being certain.
This center building is the only one with garages in the front. The other two have them in back. In the case of this building the parking area will be gated, and it almost has the appearance of being below grade.

If you want to look more closely at drawings, refer to Pete’s post here:


Just filed permits to finish this project with a building on either side of the one currently under construction.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand012522a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/6100grand012522b.jpg

Yeah I remember seeing these a while back. It still looks weird to me. But, like I said, I'm not the target audience for these. They'll certainly have no problem selling them.

I am still looking forward to seeing how that whole area takes shape, though.