Incidentally, what initially set me off was the link you made between complete idiot and seizure which you are now doubling down on. Maybe stop digging?

Sorry for triggering you. Hopefully there’s a nice safe space for you on the other side of the keyboard.

Yes, someone who does not have a condition that makes them prone to having seizures, but is acting erratically in a way that makes them look like they are having a seizure would be considered behaving like a complete idiot to me.

The more I hear/ learn/ read/see of Gallogly the more I think he is the wrong man for the job.

Here is a pretty good summary (https://www.chronicle.com/article/Hired-to-Fix-Finances/245549?key=lUtmf4EyiX3iIy8Gt541ov4eenPaNTAOaZJq8QD G2E7zc5kbdIkgVZ3gArYzwgF5VkctMDIxbVhYQ3VkQUZIbmxHM G9rdW5ocDlXUnNUaVp2VVB1aHBaRGgxWQ) of where things are for Gallogly and the campus community from the Chronicles of Higher Ed, the most influential and read higher ed outlet.

A couple thoughts on the article:

1. I don't criticize Gallogly for ensuring that programs are not wasteful. I really don't think anyone would. However, the primary problem here is that he was hired secretly (e.g., universities have democratic governance), his tone has been antagonistic and dismissive with those with whom he disagrees (e.g., Boren, Grillot; numerous public fights), and he has done a poor job of communicating his aims with the university community and seeking feedback (e.g., making drastic cuts without any deliberation). The obvious problem is that running a university is NOT like running a company. Either his lack of experience in higher ed and/or his disposition have been really detrimental. Even when people disagree with you on a university campus, you can earn their respect if, well, you treat them with respect by being inclusive and transparent.

I was at Wichita State University when a new president took over. He wanted huge changes. So he started by embarking on a listening tour with all faculty in the university. He didn't talk, he listened. He then integrated faculty ideas into his mission for change. Guess what? He had a lot of support on the campus even on less popular issues. That's leadership. Guess what? That's how someone who has worked in higher education approaches change. Gallogly doesn't seem to understand this.

2. It seems like Gallogly's picture of OU's financial situation was wrong and Boren was right. OU is not in a dire situation, but one that is comparable to peer universities just as Boren retorted to Gallogly's claims. It doesn't mean you can't improve the financial situation, but his message undercuts his credibility in the only area where he's supposed to be an expert.

What's the path forward? You have to have support to be a university president. Can Gallogly learn and change? Or, should the regents admit their mistake and seek a replacement? However, the regents deserve a lot of criticism and scrutiny for their handling of this process. Can this group of regents be expected to get the next process and decision right either? There's a lot of questions and bad press for OU, which makes me appreciate Boren's tenure more.

I am still a believer the Board of Regents hired him to root out all old Boren appointees, cut the university in ways to make it looks like they are saving lots of money and then in a few years Gallogly is gone. As an alumni I am not a fan of Gallogly but I don't believe he is here for the long haul anyway.

Throwing out the old,"well, he's just an old white guy who has a problem with people of color and inclusion" is a racist, bigoted statement. How do you know he doesn't like people of color, gays or Muslims? How do you get that from what he said? He may have faith in a 2000 year old religion but if you are going to disparage him for that, you must also disparage Islam which puts LQBTQ people to death, treats women like breeding stock and tolerates slavery of non believers.
You again throw out that he's just a white male complaining about minoritized groips facing bigotry. You say pointing out he's white is not bigotry? lt is when your clear point is to incite race and marginalize he is white, and old (whats your definition of old?) Racist, sexist and ageist all in one swoop.
I don't care if you're white, American Indian or not. Your statement was unnecesssary, demeaning, offensive race mongering and only perpetuates the chasm we have in this country today.

Yes, l believe we were writing at the same time earlier. Yes, l am still offended by your comments on the letter earlier in the thread. Yes,l stand by my response and deny anything was attributed to you that you didn't say. You yourself stated you edited your original response. Yes, l am angry because incendiary, racially divisive, demeaning comments about angry white guys are just that and need to stop. Character assassination of the author was totally uncalled for. Your response as originally written, and to a lesser extent later, is exactly what the author is talking about. You unwittingly proved some of his points.

Though this will never be as big a deal, your inferences of things the author is, feels and said were the same type of things written about the Ohio teens and the character assassination some of them have endured the last few days with their confrontation in DC last weekend.

People need to stop trolling other people and fabricating things that aren't there or innocent people are going to get killed.
^Good posting.
People who complain about racism then turn around describe others in derogatory terms by using skin color, age, gender and wealth fit into the racist and bigoted category. I personally will not associate with anyone who operates in such an extreme place or consider their opinions really on anything. I know many other who think similarly.

There is simply no place in a civil society among well educated intelligent people where any form of racism or bigotry should be accepted.

I applaud your effort to confront it as all well-meaning people should do, otherwise it’s only further enabled... All of it is wrong!

The cuts that we now see at OU would not be occurring without Boren’s financial mismanagement of the university.

The University of Oklahoma exists to advance the state of Oklahoma and its people. Boren and his people strayed way to far from this and we now hear the screams of those being impacted by Borens mismanagement.

Gallogly is doing what the OU BOR hired him to do...If he steps down the BOR will only hire someone similar. For the next 8 years Stitt will appoint new BOR members who are similar to what we now have at OU who would also only hire someone who is similar to Gallogly.

The OU BOR and those who matter most such as key donors and key state elected leaders are going to stick with Gallogly for pretty much as long as he wants to stay at OU.

The cuts that we now see at OU would not be occurring without Boren’s financial mismanagement of the university.

The University of Oklahoma exists to advance the state of Oklahoma and its people. Boren and his people strayed way to far from this and we now hear the screams of those being impacted by Borens mismanagement.

Gallogly is doing what the OU BOR hired him to do...If he steps down the BOR will only hire someone similar. For the next 8 years Stitt will appoint new BOR members who are similar to what we now have at OU who would also only hire someone who is similar to Gallogly.

The OU BOR and those who matter most such as key donors and key state elected leaders are going to stick with Gallogly for pretty much as long as he wants to stay at OU.

Do you actually believe OU's debt situation is grossly off-base with it's state university peers? Read the article posted above.

you must also disparage Islam which puts LQBTQ people to death, treats women like breeding stock and tolerates slavery of non believers.


^Good posting.
People who complain about racism then turn around describe others in derogatory terms by using skin color, age, gender and wealth fit into the racist and bigoted category. I personally will not associate with anyone who operates in such an extreme place or consider their opinions really on anything.

You literally just did...

You literally just did...
I’m totally ok with not associating with racist or bigots of any type..... Maybe you do, as long as it’s your brand, which is very common and commonly tolerated by the left these days....as long as it’s the lefts brand

Do you actually believe OU's debt situation is grossly off-base with it's state university peers? Read the article posted above.
Tell me what has gone up more than higher education in the last 30 or 40 years? The list is very short.

The poor performance of others is no excuse to continue the same stupidity that has made OU truly unaffordable for a huge percentage of our states population.

That’s like going before the judge and jury claiming that what you did was okay because other people do it too.

Like it or not that’s just not going to work anymore at OU. Boren is gone

The cuts that we now see at OU would not be occurring without Boren’s financial mismanagement of the university.

The University of Oklahoma exists to advance the state of Oklahoma and its people. Boren and his people strayed way to far from this and we now hear the screams of those being impacted by Borens mismanagement.

Gallogly is doing what the OU BOR hired him to do...If he steps down the BOR will only hire someone similar. For the next 8 years Stitt will appoint new BOR members who are similar to what we now have at OU who would also only hire someone who is similar to Gallogly.

The OU BOR and those who matter most such as key donors and key state elected leaders are going to stick with Gallogly for pretty much as long as he wants to stay at OU.
What a spin. But you are probably right about the right wing agenda going on. Purge and replace. We can keep this state moving in lockstep with the advanced states of Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana... bastions of education, culture and inclusiveness. Works well at our legislature. Lol.

I’m totally ok with not associating with racist or bigots of any type..

You are claiming you don't tolerate bigotry of any kind. You literally just agreed with a post that degrades an entire group of people.

You quoted this:

you must also disparage Islam which puts LQBTQ people to death, treats women like breeding stock and tolerates slavery of non believers.

Then said this

^Good posting.

How are you completely missing that?

^^^

Trying to have a discussion about racism, sexism, religious discrimination is so difficult online. There's a lot of "talking about racism is the only real racism" posters on this board. They claim I'm racist when I explained that a a White, straight, Christian man who stereotyped and slandered several minority groups that include his own students (often indirectly using coded language, dog whistling, complaints that these groups having events on his campus) is bigoted.

A large part of my job is talking with people of color, Indigenous peoples, LGBTQ people, and other minoritized groups so I have had the opportunity to be humbled and better understand the systematic and persistent problems so many people face in our society. But some people are outraged if you bring up any different perspective on these issues.

I don't mind disagreement, but I just wish some posters at least had a more curious disposition. Then maybe we could at least learn from each other. Some people are just here to yell in the mirror... or maybe for an audience.

The crazy reactionaries are blaming Gallogly for problems that were often created by Boren.. Many of these same people seem more interested in protecting Boren from criticism over his poor management style by attacking Gallegly than they are in helping make OU a stronger more viable university that better serves the state’s population.

This is a very fair and accurate article from a few weeks ago. It helps shows why so many people were very unhappy with Boren for a long time, which some of us knew more than a little about, (they would have removed Boren from office if he would not retire) ....but it was well before most people had ever heard of Jim Gallogly .

You will need to click the link for the full article.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/once-friends-boren-and-gallogly-now-on-opposite-sides-of/article_986d7c24-c81d-5da6-9180-96dd3bef4016.html

Few insiders are willing to talk on the record about the current situation, but off the record, many say its real origins long predate Gallogly’s arrival on the scene.

They cite Boren’s deteriorating relationship with the state’s political leadership, particularly after he spearheaded a failed 2016 ballot initiative for a 1 percent state sales tax to benefit education.
The political game

Universities and politicians are often at odds, and nowhere is that more true than in Oklahoma.
State appropriations for the public higher education system this fiscal year are $41.2 million less than they were 18 years ago and more than $275 million less than in 2008. In 2016, with state revenue shriveling, lawmakers took a $100 million hunk out of higher education in what many perceived as a reaction to Boren’s 1-percent education tax campaign.

Among those reportedly angered were powerful Oklahoma City business leaders and several OU regents. Regular critics of the state’s higher education system, including the influential Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs, trained their guns on Boren and OU.

The crazy reactionaries are blaming Gallogly for problems that were often created by Boren.. Many of these same people seem more interested in protecting Boren from criticism over his poor management style by attacking Gallegly than they are in helping make OU a stronger more viable university that better serves the state’s population.

This is a very fair and accurate article from a few weeks ago. It helps shows why so many people were very unhappy with Boren for a long time, which some of us knew more than a little about, (they would have removed Boren from office if he would not retire) ....but it was well before most people had ever heard of Jim Gallogly .

You will need to click the link for the full article.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/once-friends-boren-and-gallogly-now-on-opposite-sides-of/article_986d7c24-c81d-5da6-9180-96dd3bef4016.html

Few insiders are willing to talk on the record about the current situation, but off the record, many say its real origins long predate Gallogly’s arrival on the scene.

They cite Boren’s deteriorating relationship with the state’s political leadership, particularly after he spearheaded a failed 2016 ballot initiative for a 1 percent state sales tax to benefit education.
The political game

Universities and politicians are often at odds, and nowhere is that more true than in Oklahoma.
State appropriations for the public higher education system this fiscal year are $41.2 million less than they were 18 years ago and more than $275 million less than in 2008. In 2016, with state revenue shriveling, lawmakers took a $100 million hunk out of higher education in what many perceived as a reaction to Boren’s 1-percent education tax campaign.

Among those reportedly angered were powerful Oklahoma City business leaders and several OU regents. Regular critics of the state’s higher education system, including the influential Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs, trained their guns on Boren and OU.
So, let’s see.... the brilliant right extremists at the capital were upset that because they cannot solve our state’s horrendous education problem and someone else was fed up and came up with a plan, they decided to take them down. Sounds about right. Blame the victim for the crime. Right wing pulls support for education then attacks those wanting better. Keep the people stupid and maybe they won’t recognize the path they are being led down.

So, let’s see.... the brilliant right extremists at the capital were upset that because they cannot solve our state’s horrendous education problem and someone else was fed up and came up with a plan, they decided to take them down. Sounds about right. Blame the victim for the crime. Right wing pulls support for education then attacks those wanting better. Keep the people stupid and maybe they won’t recognize the path they are being led down.

Just quit reelecting legislators who govern public education as if they send their kids to private schools and universities. I'll be amazed if Gov. Stitt can't better support public education without also demanding more taxpayer support for private schools.

Just quit reelecting legislators who govern public education as if they send their kids to private schools and universities. I'll be amazed if Gov. Stitt can't better support public education without also demanding more taxpayer support for private schools.

Don’t think it’s just the private school supporters. It’s private school + home schooled + rural + anti intellectualism group. That’s large in Oklahoma. OK is the reddest of red states, along with Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Kentucky. This is the company we keep.

Don’t think it’s just the private school supporters. It’s private school + home schooled + rural + anti intellectualism group. That’s large in Oklahoma. OK is the reddest of red states, along with Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Kentucky. This is the company we keep.

:rolleyes:

The more I hear/ learn/ read/see of Gallogly the more I think he is the wrong man for the job.

I’m in the same boat. I understand that some of what is going on started while Boren was there, and that he probably does not deserve/own all the negativity that is being thrown at him. That being said I think one of the most important traits of strong leadership is effective communication, and I think it’s hard to argue anything but that he’s failing at that. Instead of hearing a vision for the future I constantly only hear of derision, division, and incidents where he puts his foot in his mouth. I also think that what I have seen of his actions lacks some perspective.

At this point I think he’s basically done and can’t recover from this, whether warranted or not, and the sooner the board comes to that realization and acts the faster everyone can start moving forward.

Do you actually believe OU's debt situation is grossly off-base with it's state university peers? Read the article posted above.

The difference is lack of financial support for the school from the state. OU isn't Harvard with a 12-digit endowment so money has to be watched carefully. The problem isn't the current President, that l can see, but horrible support for education by the state and rather frivolous capital spending by Boren. Other schools may be deep in debt but l wager they are supported better but the state.

The difference is lack of financial support for the school from the state. OU isn't Harvard with a 12-digit endowment so money has to be watched carefully. The problem isn't the current President, that l can see, but horrible support for education by the state and rather frivolous capital spending by Boren. Other schools may be deep in debt but l wager they are supported better but the state.

While I agree that the state cuts to higher education have been embarrassing and detrimental, OU's debt is still in line with peer institutions in other states. That's actually impressive considering those schools have better financial support. Maybe Boren should be commended for moving forward so many worthwhile projects during huge state cuts while keeping OU's debt in line with some peer universities in neighboring states.

While I agree that the state cuts to higher education have been embarrassing and detrimental, OU's debt is still in line with peer institutions in other states. That's actually impressive considering those schools have better financial support. Maybe Boren should be commended for moving forward so many worthwhile projects during huge state cuts while keeping OU's debt in line with some peer universities in neighboring states.

Now how does OU stack up rankings-wise and even campus beauty we use with those schools? I would guess that is where OU falls behind. OU has high debt to try to keep up with the Jones's is my take. I could be wrong, though.

While I agree that the state cuts to higher education have been embarrassing and detrimental, OU's debt is still in line with peer institutions in other states. That's actually impressive considering those schools have better financial support. Maybe Boren should be commended for moving forward so many worthwhile projects during huge state cuts while keeping OU's debt in line with some peer universities in neighboring states.

I love both the Norman and OKCHSC have beautiful and functional buildings and campuses but perhaps much of that money could have been spent on faculty, salaries and direct educational support for students (not fluff social engineering offices).

Now how does OU stack up rankings-wise and even campus beauty we use with those schools? I would guess that is where OU falls behind. OU has high debt to try to keep up with the Jones's is my take. I could be wrong, though.

I have traveled to almost every campus in the region. OU has one of the most beautiful and well maintained campus' anywhere. In that area, I would rank OU well above peer institutions and many institutions considered a notch above. As I've posted many times before, the U.S. News & World Report rankings are a sham. They have almost nothing to do with institutional quality. Of course, they affect real life perceptions so they matter. Having said that, OU moved up in the rankings throughout Boren's tenure and has done well. OU usually ranks around 100, which puts it right around peer institutions you would expect (e.g., Kansas, Iowa State...)*. So, I'd say OU, against all odds, is doing great in both those areas.

* There's been criticism some numbers were cooked, but I haven't researched it enough to know whether there's any merit to those claims. However, I do not expect OU to maintain their rankings under Gallogly as I the perception of OU has already shifted to a cost-cutting school. Even if it's a good move, the way Gallogly has made it his public mission was a terrible PR move.

The state is far too dependent on the gross production tax...When it suffers so do appropriations to OU. Several states put a portion of their states gross production tax into an endowment fund that among other things helps fund their states higher education system. Oklahoma needs a similar endowment. It should be collected on a progressive scale.

By doubling OU’s research in the next 5 years as Gallogly and the states leadership base wants it will help create spin off opportunities like we have seen near OU’s Health Sciences Center and the weather industry in Norman. This will improve many metrics of the university... but it also helps diversify our state economy and tax base. It would employ people in well-paying jobs. I read somewhere that since Gallogly has become OU's president that in only about 6 months OU has already increased its research by 20 %.

Redirecting more of OU’s limited resources toward those supportive degree programs and its research and away for programs such as the International Studies program and the National Merit scholars programs that sees a very high percentage of graduates leaving our state is a more responsible use of our states limited resources. This is better for Oklahoma high school graduates who want to stay in our state.

This effort would also provide existing Oklahoma businesses with a greater pool of talent. We need to keep more graduates and their innovative talents in our state after graduation.

I agree. While it's nice to march all those National Merit Scholars onto the football playing field each year, I would imagine few of them stay in OK after graduation. It's a nice bragging point but I wager it's a bad investment.

Redirecting more of OU’s limited resources toward those supportive degree programs and its research and away for programs such as the International Studies program and the National Merit scholars programs that sees a very high percentage of graduates leaving our state is a more responsible use of our states limited resources. This is better for Oklahoma high school graduates who want to stay in our state.

This effort would also provide existing Oklahoma businesses with a greater pool of talent. We need to keep more graduates and their innovative talents in our state after graduation.

Well... there you have it.... the anti globalist, anti intellectualism play book. Only thing left is to advocate allowing hate speech on campus under the guise of “free speech”. This is part of a stated far right nationalist goal. People need to read about it and be aware of what is going on.

Our top students stay here when there are good paying jobs here, they don’t leave because they are smart or educated. They leave because of lack of commitment to educating their anticipated children. They leave because of lack of support for quality of life issues... art, culture, sharing of ideas and ideals. They leave because our legislature focuses on forcing conservative lifestyle on all, rather than giving us things like infrastructure, education, civil fairness, transparent govt. etc. they don’t leave because we don’t hire our students out and subsidize research for a few large corporations to get cheap taxpayer supported research.

Well... there you have it.... the anti globalist, anti intellectualism play book. Only thing left is to advocate allowing hate speech on campus under the guise of “free speech”. This is part of a stated far right nationalist goal. People need to read about it and be aware of what is going on.

Our top students stay here when there are good paying jobs here, they don’t leave because they are smart or educated. They leave because of lack of commitment to educating their anticipated children. They leave because of lack of support for quality of life issues... art, culture, sharing of ideas and ideals. They leave because our legislature focuses on forcing conservative lifestyle on all, rather than giving us things like infrastructure, education, civil fairness, transparent govt. etc. they don’t leave because we don’t hire our students out and subsidize research for a few large corporations to get cheap taxpayer supported research.

Really? You're bordering on trolling Rover. Try being part of the conversation instead of flaming everyone. While I agree grads are going to go where the jobs are and education is poorly funded in OK, I doubt many are thinking about their future children's education. They are thinking about where the fun places to go are on weekends, lifestyle, etc.

I've lived in multiple states and OK's infrastructure is on par or better than other states. Yes, there is a conservative lifestyle but you all just passed medical pot and more liberal alcohol regulations. OKs government is no different than TX or CO in terms of transparency. Not sure what you are referring to by civil fairness.

And really, if you hate the conservative lifestyle of OK so much, then leave! Americans live an average of 13 different places over their lives.
Pack up, get in your car and go to California. Why live in a place you hate with such a passion. Try seeing how other states are and I think you'll find that while OK certainly has it's problems, you greatly misunderstand the quality of life there.

Well... there you have it.... the anti globalist, anti intellectualism play book. Only thing left is to advocate allowing hate speech on campus under the guise of “free speech”. This is part of a stated far right nationalist goal. People need to read about it and be aware of what is going on.

Our top students stay here when there are good paying jobs here, they don’t leave because they are smart or educated. They leave because of lack of commitment to educating their anticipated children. They leave because of lack of support for quality of life issues... art, culture, sharing of ideas and ideals. They leave because our legislature focuses on forcing conservative lifestyle on all, rather than giving us things like infrastructure, education, civil fairness, transparent govt. etc. they don’t leave because we don’t hire our students out and subsidize research for a few large corporations to get cheap taxpayer supported research.

Hate speech IS free speech. Far right nationalists have as much of a right to the microphone as anyone else. The cure is more speech, not censorship.

Hate speech IS free speech. Far right nationalists have as much of a right to the microphone as anyone else. The cure is more speech, not censorship.

^^^^^

I agree. While it's nice to march all those National Merit Scholars onto the football playing field each year, I would imagine few of them stay in OK after graduation. It's a nice bragging point but I wager it's a bad investment.

Can we say the same for the football team too?

Can we say the same for the football team too?

actually no. i don't think we can... i know a lot of former players who still live in Oklahoma. i bet at a much higher percentage of Football players return to Oklahoma than National Merit Scholars. remember that a good chunk of them find their spouses and start families here... and so if they don't go to the NFL... they often end up staying here

The rate of return on our investment as a state is a very key point to remember.

We will not advance our state if we are not investing wisely in our own state in ways that help new and existing business grow with innovation. OU cannot be everything it needs to be for this state if we are wasting money on programs with poor rates of return with well paying jobs in our state. If we won’t make smart investments in ourselves why should we expect others to do the same...Look at what MAPS has done.

Fortunately for OU, our state and the OKC METRO area we now have leaders at OU (Gallogly & BOR backed by other very important people) who understand the need to diminish the role of underperforming assets at OU and redirect resources into programs that offer prospects of much greater returns for OU, our state, the business community and OU graduates... many of which if given the opportunity would stay in the greater OKC area or in our state.

OU leaders know that a university with teams of great researchers will produce many times more value and economic opportunity than OU’s athletic department could ever dream about. This is why Gallogly and OU leaders are trying to recruit and invest in human capital...This was one of Gallogly's most important task as a former CEO.

From a football point of view (our state too)....in 25 or so years...OU football will need a more diversified economic base of support as the state’s production of oil begins a slow decline.

Hate speech IS free speech. Far right nationalists have as much of a right to the microphone as anyone else. The cure is more speech, not censorship.

Folks...see what I mean? This kind of thought denies that the concept of free speech never included the right to create harm to other people. To promote this concept of "free speech" is not protected and never has been. Some people hide behind religion by misinterpreting and misrepresenting holy writings too, but it doesn't make what they are advocating holy, just an abomination.

The rate of return on our investment as a state is a very key point to remember.

We will not advance our state if we are not investing wisely in our own state in ways that help new and existing business grow with innovation. OU cannot be everything it needs to be for this state if we are wasting money on programs with poor rates of return with well paying jobs in our state. If we won’t make smart investments in ourselves why should we expect others to do the same...Look at what MAPS has done.

Fortunately for OU, our state and the OKC METRO area we now have leaders at OU (Gallogly & BOR backed by other very important people) who understand the need to diminish the role of underperforming assets at OU and redirect resources into programs that offer prospects of much greater returns for OU, our state, the business community and OU graduates... many of which if given the opportunity would stay in the greater OKC area or in our state.

OU leaders know that a university with teams of great researchers will produce many times more value and economic opportunity than OU’s athletic department could ever dream about. This is why Gallogly and OU leaders are trying to recruit and invest in human capital...This was one of Gallogly's most important task as a former CEO.

From a football point of view (our state too)....in 25 or so years...OU football will need a more diversified economic base of support as the state’s production of oil begins a slow decline.

This off the rail Trumpian love affair with promoting money over all is a sickness. The idea that accounting is the blueprint of good government and education shows a complete lack of understanding of the function of either. This is the fantasy of overpaid corporate CEO's and their sycophants.

dbl darnit

Folks...see what I mean?

You playing to an audience of one?

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

so back to OU and that debt and such....

Man, you know the thread has gone to hell when I end up agreeing with Midtownr. ;)

Here's the way I see it.

--In the last several years, universities in general have taken a very hard slant to the extreme political left. This is not a good thing. Regardless of your personal politics, the idea that free speech should no longer be protected should scare the crap out of you.
--This move to the left has angered many conservatives.
--Fair or not, David Boren was seen as being sympathetic to the extreme leftist policies that we have been seeing at other schools.
--Jim Gallogly was brought in primarily to try and bust up Boren's legacy. He immediately started making very public statements about how poorly OU has been run, and he's done so in a way that is almost guaranteed to hurt OU's national perception.

Going against my own political party, hiring Gallogly was a dumb move. You can't fix national problems like this by making your university the statistical outlier. That's not how it works. Gallogly isn't helping OU at all by saying that everything Boren did was a disaster.

Going against the other party, you can't blame Gallogly for inaction when two idiot sorority girls post something racist and then withdraw from school. At that point there's nothing he can do about it.

^^^
So much of this is generated political narrative more than reality. I work at universities around plenty of conservatives. Humanities departments have always slanted left and science/business departments more right. Just like how entire industries like banking or real estate or energy slant right. None of this is new. Everyone has free speech on college campuses. However, there has been a surreptitious political movement and organizations that literally generate harassment towards "liberal" professors with the aim of creating this narrative that universities are being taken over by liberals. Of course, harassment is never okay. It's always okay to criticize, but targeted harassment is not okay. These politically-motivated groups more than anything have been succcessful (with conservative media as their mouth piece) in creating the perception that colleges are somehow unwelcome places for conservatives. The idea that you can't be conservative at OU is quite a claim. Some speech may be unpopular on certain issues, but that's how free speech works.

Can we say the same for the football team too?

Not even close. The football team donates a significant amount of money to the school annually, provides great recognition for the school and yes, many former players do end up donating to the school.

^^^
So much of this is generated political narrative more than reality. I work at universities around plenty of conservatives. Humanities departments have always slanted left and science/business departments more right. Just like how entire industries like banking or real estate or energy slant right. None of this is new. Everyone has free speech on college campuses. However, there has been a surreptitious political movement and organizations that literally generate harassment towards "liberal" professors with the aim of creating this narrative that universities are being taken over by liberals. Of course, harassment is never okay. It's always okay to criticize, but targeted harassment is not okay. These politically-motivated groups more than anything have been succcessful (with conservative media as their mouth piece) in creating the perception that colleges are somehow unwelcome places for conservatives. The idea that you can't be conservative at OU is quite a claim. Some speech may be unpopular on certain issues, but that's how free speech works.

When was the last time a liberal was prevented from speaking on a university campus? When was the last time a conservative mob of students rampaged, burned and threatened because liberals were giving presentations? When was the last time a conservative mob managed to stop liberal groups from organizing on campus, posting or distributing literature? When was the last time liberal speakers or educators were shouted down at sponsored events or during classes? When was the last time a conservative student mob took over a school administration, demand safe zones from certain ethnic groups, demand all people of certain ethnic groups get off campus for periods of time? ( yes, l know on the last couple of items but its been at least a couple of decades).

l'm sorry dantruka, l'm nit sure if you are sincere and just don't understand what you are talking about or are completely aware and just try to be a politician. l've seen you stereotype old white guys in a demeaning and offensive way then profess not to. Now, l have to call BS on this. I see daily examples of occurrences showing the opposite of what you are saying and have seen it with my own eyes here in CO.

Not even close. The football team donates a significant amount of money to the school annually, provides great recognition for the school and yes, many former players do end up donating to the school.

Not to mention a lot of out of states come to OU because they want to be a part of an awesome football tradition, and the team is good, so cheering for them is fun.

Not to mention a lot of out of states come to OU because they want to be a part of an awesome football tradition, and the team is good, so cheering for them is fun.

l have to admit being there to see a great game and 55 years of great memories with my Dad (RIP) and family and friends, l have looked around the stadium and thought that it is truly one of my happy places.

When was the last time a liberal was prevented from speaking on a university campus? When was the last time a conservative mob of students rampaged, burned and threatened because liberals were giving presentations? When was the last time a conservative mob managed to stop liberal groups from organizing on campus, posting or distributing literature? When was the last time liberal speakers or educators were shouted down at sponsored events or during classes? When was the last time a conservative student mob took over a school administration, demand safe zones from certain ethnic groups, demand all people of certain ethnic groups get off campus for periods of time? ( yes, l know on the last couple of items but its been at least a couple of decades).

l'm sorry dantruka, l'm nit sure if you are sincere and just don't understand what you are talking about or are completely aware and just try to be a politician. l've seen you stereotype old white guys in a demeaning and offensive way then profess not to. Now, l have to call BS on this. I see daily examples of occurrences showing the opposite of what you are saying and have seen it with my own eyes here in CO.

Agree 100%. There is an inherent liberal bias in the university environment, Dan is right in that business and engineering types slant right and the bus agaisnt conservatives isn’t nearly as bad at universities in the south but it is very much present elsewhere in the country, especially the coasts.

Folks...see what I mean? This kind of thought denies that the concept of free speech never included the right to create harm to other people. To promote this concept of "free speech" is not protected and never has been. Some people hide behind religion by misinterpreting and misrepresenting holy writings too, but it doesn't make what they are advocating holy, just an abomination.

Huh? There are multiple supreme court cases that specifically state that hate speech is protected speech under the first amendment. Hate speech is different than a direct threat of harm to another person.

When was the last time a liberal was prevented from speaking on a university campus? When was the last time a conservative mob of students rampaged, burned and threatened because liberals were giving presentations? When was the last time a conservative mob managed to stop liberal groups from organizing on campus, posting or distributing literature? When was the last time liberal speakers or educators were shouted down at sponsored events or during classes? When was the last time a conservative student mob took over a school administration, demand safe zones from certain ethnic groups, demand all people of certain ethnic groups get off campus for periods of time? ( yes, l know on the last couple of items but its been at least a couple of decades).

Happened in Oklahoma in 2009, when Richard Dawkins was invited to speak at OU.
https://newsok.com/article/3351041/oklahoma-lawmaker-filed-resolution-opposing-tonights-lecture-by-evolutionary-biologist-at-ou
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-lukianoff/oklahoma-legislature-inve_b_177473.html

But yes, it does happen more often with conservative speakers and its ridiculous. Dont like the speech, dont listen or debate them. The pouting, the protesting, the shouting down of speakers of any kinds needs to stop.

Happened in Oklahoma in 2009, when Richard Dawkins was invited to speak at OU.
https://newsok.com/article/3351041/oklahoma-lawmaker-filed-resolution-opposing-tonights-lecture-by-evolutionary-biologist-at-ou
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-lukianoff/oklahoma-legislature-inve_b_177473.html

But yes, it does happen more often with conservative speakers and its ridiculous. Dont like the speech, dont listen or debate them. The pouting, the protesting, the shouting down of speakers of any kinds needs to stop.

Yeah I remember that when I was in school there. I’ve always leaned conservative but the fact that the legislature even commented on that, let alone made any attempt to stop him from speaking, really really bothered me.

That said, there was no widespread protest by conservatives on campus, there was no student uprising, nor was there any attempt by the administration to ban him from speaking as has been the case with conservative speakers at other universities. I’ve never seen the type of reaction from school administrators or students in regard to far left wing or any other liberal speakers. When Dawkins came, I remember several people who vehemently disagreed with him that didn’t attend or did attend and had respectful conversations with him through the question and answer sessions. There was no disrespectful heckling or screaming in the audience, it was exactly what the college experience should provide...the ability to listen to different types of thought that make you think outside the box.

Folks...see what I mean? This kind of thought denies that the concept of free speech never included the right to create harm to other people. To promote this concept of "free speech" is not protected and never has been. Some people hide behind religion by misinterpreting and misrepresenting holy writings too, but it doesn't make what they are advocating holy, just an abomination.

How does speech alone harm anyone? You could even advocate a genocide and not actually harm anyone. If someone is so fragile as to experience emotional harm from speech shared in the marketplace of ideas, that's on them. Liberal or conservative fragility is a choice. If students disagree with a speaker on campus, they should be offered adequate facilities to protest that speech. They should be offered an opportunity to confront those speakers peacefully. They shouldn't have the ability to deny other students the ability to invite and hear a speaker. Universities should be places where we have a free exchange of ideas. If ideas are particularly absurd, we should hope that our students are bright enough to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Happened in Oklahoma in 2009, when Richard Dawkins was invited to speak at OU.
https://newsok.com/article/3351041/oklahoma-lawmaker-filed-resolution-opposing-tonights-lecture-by-evolutionary-biologist-at-ou
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-lukianoff/oklahoma-legislature-inve_b_177473.html

But yes, it does happen more often with conservative speakers and its ridiculous. Dont like the speech, dont listen or debate them. The pouting, the protesting, the shouting down of speakers of any kinds needs to stop.

Yeah, my example isn't speech per say, but when I was at OSU *mumble mumble* years ago, we had a showing of Clockwork Orange and The Last Temptation cancelled because of protests.

New hire executive salaries under Gallogly's administration: Some will serve at both OU campuses.

Lauren Brookey, vice president for marketing and communications, $200,000 for 12 months.
Rowdy Gilbert, former vice president for public affairs, $42,083.

Charles Wright, chief audit executive, $225,000 for 12 months.
Clive Mander, former chief audit executive, $181,800.

John Woods, executive director for governmental affairs, $155,000 for 12 months.
Jonathan Nichols, former vice president for governmental relations, $175,000.

Ken Rowe, senior vice president and chief financial officer, $400,000 for 12 months.
Nick Hathaway, former executive vice president for administration and finance, $301,670.

Eric Conrad, Vice President for Operations, $310,000 for 12 months.
Position did not exist in previous administration.

David Surratt, Vice President for Student Affairs, Dean of Students, $225,000 for 12 months.
Clarke Stroud, former Dean of Students, $145,000.

Jacquelyn H. Wolf, Senior Vice President, Chief Human Resources Officer, $317,000 for 12 months.
Marcy Fleming, current still employed as Human Resources Director and previously Interim Vice President for Human Resources until January 7, 2019, 2018 salary - $157,000.

TBD Chief Information Officer
Eddie Huebsch, former Interim Chief Information Officer, $215,000.

After July 2nd restructuring, "Moving forward, the chief financial officer, chief human resources officer and vice president for facilities and services will report directly to the president, reducing the total number of executives from 25 to 17, a reduction of 32 percent across all OU campuses.

The move will save the university $1.13 million annually, but Gallogly said the move was less about cost savings and more about streamlining a top-heavy administration." - Norman Transcript

Total salary prior to new executives = $1,217,553
8 new executives salaries = $1,832,000 + one unfilled Chief Information Officer

Savings from restructuring direct reports (25 to 17 ~$1.13 million) is going to additional compensation to hire new executives.

Huh? There are multiple supreme court cases that specifically state that hate speech is protected speech under the first amendment. Hate speech is different than a direct threat of harm to another person.
The criteria is intent, imminence, and likelihood with regard to breaking the law. If someone is advocating the violating of the law regards racial or other matters otherwise protected by law and that it is likely the audience will act upon it soon, then there is a case to be made about hate speech being illegal. Like all freedoms, we have rights and we have modifiers of those rights. The current right wing push to flood the judicial system with right wing advocates is to assure interpretations and rulings most in line with their advocated issues.

l'm sorry dantruka, l'm nit sure if you are sincere and just don't understand what you are talking about or are completely aware and just try to be a politician. l've seen you stereotype old white guys in a demeaning and offensive way then profess not to. Now, l have to call BS on this. I see daily examples of occurrences showing the opposite of what you are saying and have seen it with my own eyes here in CO.

What speakers did people protest? Your post and assertions are vague. Which conservative speakers were stopped by a mob? The primary speakers I've seen massive protests for are White Nationalists. In most cases, universities permitted them to speak and there were big protests. If you want to be a White Supremacist or Neo-Nazi then I am completely fine with people using public pressure -- i.e., free speech -- to lead to an event being cancelled. Violence is almost never a good response to speech and I never condone that, but cases of that happening are very rare. I have seen conservative speakers speak at universities many times without problem... I bet that didn't make conservative media. But claiming this is widespread requires some references. Again, please detail the events you saw with your own eyes. In most cases, your "mobs" are just protesters with whom you disagree.

I work in academia and I can give you tons of examples of "liberals" facing persecution:
- I've seen explicit racism against Black job candidates because of their views (which are pretty standard in Black communities)
- I've seen students revolt against faculty of color multiple times because of mainstream perspectives on issues of race, sex, etc.
- I've witnessed university faculty and staff spread rumors that the Black Student Association was actually bused in outsiders when they held a silent protest.

In many cases, I've seen conservative university emplyees work behind the scenes or used their power to take a variety of measures to silence faculty with whom they disagreed. If you think "liberals" are the only ones who've faced any types of persecution, I saw all these events with my own eyes. None of them made the news and all of them happened. As others pointed out, "liberal" speakers have been protested in Oklahoma.

However, I won't respond to your constant mischaracterization of my posts.

As I've said before, I'm happy to discuss these issues, but these discussions are going nowhere. I'm out on this thread not because it's not a worthy topic, but because it's just not educational. Nothing but love. Best.

New hire executive salaries under Gallogly's administration: Some will serve at both OU campuses.

Lauren Brookey, vice president for marketing and communications, $200,000 for 12 months.
Rowdy Gilbert, former vice president for public affairs, $42,083.

Charles Wright, chief audit executive, $225,000 for 12 months.
Clive Mander, former chief audit executive, $181,800.

John Woods, executive director for governmental affairs, $155,000 for 12 months.
Jonathan Nichols, former vice president for governmental relations, $175,000.

Ken Rowe, senior vice president and chief financial officer, $400,000 for 12 months.
Nick Hathaway, former executive vice president for administration and finance, $301,670 and **Chris Kuwitzky, former chief financial officer, $292,000.**

Eric Conrad, Vice President for Operations, $310,000 for 12 months.
Position did not exist in previous administration.

David Surratt, Vice President for Student Affairs, Dean of Students, $225,000 for 12 months.
Clarke Stroud, former Dean of Students, $145,000.

Jacquelyn H. Wolf, Senior Vice President, Chief Human Resources Officer, $317,000 for 12 months.
Marcy Fleming, current still employed as Human Resources Director and previously Interim Vice President for Human Resources until January 7, 2019, 2018 salary - $157,000.

TBD Chief Information Officer
Eddie Huebsch, former Interim Chief Information Officer, $215,000.

After July 2nd restructuring, "Moving forward, the chief financial officer, chief human resources officer and vice president for facilities and services will report directly to the president, reducing the total number of executives from 25 to 17, a reduction of 32 percent across all OU campuses.

The move will save the university $1.13 million annually, but Gallogly said the move was less about cost savings and more about streamlining a top-heavy administration." - Norman Transcript

Total salary prior to new executives = **$1,509,553**
8 new executives salaries = $1,832,000 + one unfilled Chief Information Officer

Savings from restructuring direct reports (25 to 17 ~$1.13 million) is going to additional compensation to hire new executives.

**Edit in the quote**

Man’s history has shown that those nations and individuals who live with freedom and who are the most innovative have had the best rising standards of living, for all well-adjusted people.

Building a more innovative intellectually based state and local economy creates an environment where the boats rise, for all well-adjusted people.
For those who are still stuck in the mud and are not well adjusted ...we will have more resources to help them achieve their best outcomes!

Just as individuals seek opportunity so do corporations who hire people and pay well. If OU is improving and growing it’s in demand STEM programs it gives us another selling point in economic development and in the recruitment of new and expanding industries....This in turn creates many additional opportunities in a growing economy.

One of the things Texas did many decades ago was to build a very strong university system that has helped fuel their states economic growth and greater wealth for many well-adjusted individuals.

Since nobody else is going to do it for us, it’s up to us to improve our own economic conditions in part via our states university systems by producing graduates in degree programs that have real jobs waiting on them in our state.

Man’s history has shown that those nations and individuals who live with freedom and who are the most innovative have had the best rising standards of living, for all well-adjusted people.

Building a more innovative intellectually based state and local economy creates an environment where the boats rise, for all well-adjusted people.
For those who are still stuck in the mud and are not well adjusted ...we will have more resources to help them achieve their best outcomes!

Just as individuals seek opportunity so do corporations who hire people and pay well. If OU is improving and growing it’s in demand STEM programs it gives us another selling point in economic development and in the recruitment of new and expanding industries....This in turn creates many additional opportunities in a growing economy.

One of the things Texas did many decades ago was to build a very strong university system that has helped fuel their states economic growth and greater wealth for many well-adjusted individuals.

Since nobody else is going to do it for us, it’s up to us to improve our own economic conditions in part via our states university systems by producing graduates in degree programs that have real jobs waiting on them in our state.

Also countries with respect and advancement of culture and social programs also lead the world in prosperity.

I won't argue the fact that there needs to be more emphasis on STEM education. But it needs to start in the lower schools and OK's commitment there by these same people now wanting to run the University is abysmal.

I would also argue that OU is a comprehensive UNIVERSITY. It isn't a vo-tech, or a technical university. It provides a comprehensive curriculum of studies that are more than just technical and training to work at a big company or an oil and gas company.

I do applaud Texas, but the landmark schools got money from oil endowment, not necessarily from taxes. And, for every UT and TAMU there is a UTEP and TTech. I would also point out that UT is well known for many of the things you suggest aren't so important at OU... international studies, arts and humanities, etc.

Now, TAMU is a right winger's dream school. Lots of military and faux military. But there is a reason why Aggies are thought of the way they are.... smart, but......... well... Aggies. :)

As it turns out when Boren was trying his best to make OU’s debt sound like a normal situation it was misleading as seen below. Of the universities reporting OU spends a higher percentage of it budget on servicing it’s debt than any Big 12 university. This is why the cuts are necessary, current operations were being impacted.

Once the waste at OU is stopped and the most reforms are made at OU, well-adjusted people within our states leadership will be far more supportive of increased state dollars to OU. It’s likely the same deal for important OU donors who would not have wanted their money wasted and or misused as some had previously believed.

...It’s still amazing that the Boren groupies are still so gullible and are still putting Boren, his people and their ideology above the future improvement of the university and our state.

http://www.oudaily.com/news/does-it-mean-the-sky-is-falling-maybe-not-experts/article_e4acf9be-fe63-11e8-b1aa-f31595024c61.html

The review found that OU's debt levels are significantly higher than many other peer institutions' and the university does spend more than its counterparts of its overall budget on debt payments.
“It’s hard to make a totally definitive statement, but when (debt) gets in the way of current operations, that may be problematic,” Menditto said.

But the Board of Regents approved a $1.02 billion preliminary budget for the Norman campus this fiscal year, leaving OU to spend roughly 6.5 percent of its total budget on debt payments until official budgets have been approved.


The University of Texas has $1.6 billion in debt, but it spends about 4 percent of its overall budget on debt payments.
Oklahoma State University said it has roughly $863 million in total debt and spends 5 to 6 percent of its total budget on payments.
West Virginia University has $753 million in debt and spends approximately 5.5 percent on debt.
Iowa State has about $503 million in debt, with 3 percent of its overall budget going to payments.
Kansas State University said it has $464 million in debt and spends 4.5 percent of its total budget on debt payments.

Texas Tech has $445 million in debt, and most of its payments are covered through donations and gifts to the school.

...It’s still amazing that the Boren groupies are still so gullible and are still putting Boren, his people and their ideology above the future improvement of the university and our state.

Or maybe it is amazing that corporate sycophants or maybe Gallogy employees, are so intent on trying to advance an agenda. Bowing at the corporate alter doesn’t prove a commitment to improving the university or the state or the understanding what actual improvement means.

Or maybe it is amazing that corporate sycophants or maybe Gallogy employees, are so intent on trying to advance an agenda. Bowing at the corporate alter doesn’t prove a commitment to improving the university or the state or the understanding what actual improvement means.

I worked at the OU under Boren for a few years, the environment was toxic and incredibly political. I appreciate the moves Boren made to make the university a better place, but he perpetuated a separate set of issues. I don't agree with Gallogy's politics, but it is completely disingenuous to act like increasing research opportunities at the university does not improve the university a great deal. Gallogy's "agenda" as far as any of us are aware is to balance the books, improve private research partners, and generally improve OU's standing. Rover, we probably agree on quite a few things politically, but you need to remove the tinfoil hat.

I worked at the OU under Boren for a few years, the environment was toxic and incredibly political. I appreciate the moves Boren made to make the university a better place, but he perpetuated a separate set of issues. I don't agree with Gallogy's politics, but it is completely disingenuous to act like increasing research opportunities at the university does not improve the university a great deal. Gallogy's "agenda" as far as any of us are aware is to balance the books, improve private research partners, and generally improve OU's standing. Rover, we probably agree on quite a few things politically, but you need to remove the tinfoil hat.
I appreciate your perspective. But I have known others there for some time who would disagree with you experience. That is not to doubt you observed and felt what you felt.

I do appreciate increased research, but it can be a slippery slope. Many universities have had to turn to private funds as public funding has been reduced in any number of places. If research is conducted as a discount R&D branch for certain companies or industries, it can become a form of corporate welfare. Or if certain outcomes are dictated to legitimize certain industry activities or impacts by putting a university stamp on it, it is wrong. Count me skeptical, not tin hat. We already have had issues with integrity of research biased in favor of large O&G interests in this state. Gallogly comes from this same group, donates money, and suddenly is the top candidate to run the university. He is planted there by
Clay Bennett (Gaylord family) and immediately starts trying to cast Boren as a villain. This is reminiscent of tactics used by Trump to try to wipe out Obama and then replace swamp critters with swamp ogres.

I know there is much more division within and regarding OU than there has been fo a long time.

I appreciate your perspective. But I have known others there for some time who would disagree with you experience. That is not to doubt you observed and felt what you felt.

I do appreciate increased research, but it can be a slippery slope. Many universities have had to turn to private funds as public funding has been reduced in any number of places. If research is conducted as a discount R&D branch for certain companies or industries, it can become a form of corporate welfare. Or if certain outcomes are dictated to legitimize certain industry activities or impacts by putting a university stamp on it, it is wrong. Count me skeptical, not tin hat. We already have had issues with integrity of research biased in favor of large O&G interests in this state. Gallogly comes from this same group, donates money, and suddenly is the top candidate to run the university. He is planted there by
Clay Bennett (Gaylord family) and immediately starts trying to cast Boren as a villain. This is reminiscent of tactics used by Trump to try to wipe out Obama and then replace swamp critters with swamp ogres.

I know there is much more division within and regarding OU than there has been fo a long time.

If you remember, Boren was at the center of one of the situations where oil and gas interests were being accused of pressuring researchers to change their findings and Boren aides with the oil and gas companies as far as the public was concerned so he wasn’t the protector of integrity that you’re acting like he was.