^ agree.

1. If you need a job ASAP and they'll hire you quickly, that attracts people. For a lot of people, they don't have the luxury of finding a job that will treat them better - they just need a job now. This is extremely common in the companies you mention as well. Again, doesn't make them good jobs.
2. In my experience with low-level, "unskilled" jobs like this, sure, local management might be going against company policy. The reality is, though, if they're getting pressured to meet some predefined goal, often company policy gets thrown right out the window. This doesn't always happen in all companies, but I've seen it happen multiple times where I've worked.
3. Sure. Bigger company invites more scrutiny, I don't disagree. We've seen similar with Wal-mart and other companies. But this should be more concerning. If a company knows there could be an issue under scrutiny that could give them bad PR, wouldn't they try hard to make sure that issue doesn't happen?
4. Most people working in these conditions don't end up reporting issues to the relevant authorities because they still need the job and/or don't want to rock the boat. There's often a very real threat of losing your job if you're a whistleblower.

I would normally agree with you, especially when unemployment was high. but we now have companies talking about how to find alternatives due to the fact that they sometimes cannot hire enough people (even unskilled labor positions) due to the current unemployment rate. outside of a few areas in this country, it is a workers market right now.

^

It's one of the reasons Amazon has gone to the heavy use of robotics.

Without them, the required workforce would be much higher at this facility.

I would normally agree with you, especially when unemployment was high. but we now have companies talking about how to find alternatives due to the fact that they sometimes cannot hire enough people (even unskilled labor positions) due to the current unemployment rate. outside of a few areas in this country, it is a workers market right now.

Every time I hear about a company whining they can't find workers, I'm reminded of an old writer's joke about some publisher refusing to pay more than a penny a word, then when they found out the competition was paying a penny and a half declared they would have to file bankruptcy at that rate.

The point is there is not a company anywhere in the world that can't find workers. Sometimes, when the market swings towards the workers, what happens is companies have difficulty "finding workers" willing to work 70 hours a week for **** pay and even worse benefits. They just stop the sentence early. The companies without this attitude experience no problems.

Every time I hear about a company whining they can't find workers, I'm reminded of an old writer's joke about some publisher refusing to pay more than a penny a word, then when they found out the competition was paying a penny and a half declared they would have to file bankruptcy at that rate.

The point is there is not a company anywhere in the world that can't find workers. Sometimes, when the market swings towards the workers, what happens is companies have difficulty "finding workers" willing to work 70 hours a week for **** pay and even worse benefits. They just stop the sentence early. The companies without this attitude experience no problems.

right... except that we are looking at some historic lows in unemployment... and there actually might not be enough people looking for that kind of job. I know we aren't talking about the unskilled workforce with this scenario... but I know for a fact right now there are more open positions for software developers in OKC then there are developers to fill those positions. so companies in OKC are having to look out of state for resources.

yes, places like amazon could increase wages, and some companies do that... I know that McDonalds in the early 2000's in Elk City was paying $12-15 (back when minimum wage was either still 5.15 or had just upped, I can't really remember) an hour, because they couldn't find daytime workers while high schoolers were in class. I actually had friends in college at weatherford who would drive to elk city to work at McDonalds because the money was worth it. That still doesn't mean that they were able to fill every shift they needed, And then when the oil field jobs and wind farm jobs went away again.... everyone making that much at mcdonalds was either told to take less, or were let go, because they could lower their wages again.

I know your anecdote is funny and the way in which it is portrayed.... but the reality is far different sometimes.

Available Workers is sometimes a finite resource... especially when unemployment is below 4.5%.

yes, places like amazon could increase wages, and some companies do that... I know that McDonalds in the early 2000's in Elk City was paying $12-15 (back when minimum wage was either still 5.15 or had just upped, I can't really remember) an hour, because they couldn't find daytime workers while high schoolers were in class. I actually had friends in college at weatherford who would drive to elk city to work at McDonalds because the money was worth it. That still doesn't mean that they were able to fill every shift they needed, And then when the oil field jobs and wind farm jobs went away again.... everyone making that much at mcdonalds was either told to take less, or were let go, because they could lower their wages again.

Thank you. I couldn't ask for a better illustration/real world example of my point.

i’ve talked to and associated with a number of people who worked (key word here is “worked”) at Amazon, and not one of them had a good thing to say about the experience. The company exists to serve Jeff and his customers. Many of the key positions, including the Area Manager role, have 100% turnover (i.e. the average employee only lasts one year in the position).

This is not a good company, folks.

i’ve talked to and associated with a number of people who worked (key word here is “worked”) at Amazon, and not one of them had a good thing to say about the experience. The company exists to serve Jeff and his customers. Many of the key positions, including the Area Manager role, have 100% turnover (i.e. the average employee only lasts one year in the position).

This is not a good company, folks.

Part of the reason Amazon is going into their own distribution business is because FedEx and UPS were not willing to make the investments in adding capacity to their linehaul, express, and last mile just to handle more influx from Amazon. Amazon negotiates the absolute lowest rates, to the point where UPS and FedEx are breaking even on Amazon volume. From a friend of mine who works at UPS (volume planner for air freight), UPS gives Amazon a fixed amount of volume they can fly (since they are breaking even) and once they fill that (secret) volume UPS will cut them off.

If Amazon drives their suppliers and contractors to the point where they have to distance themselves from one of the largest companies in the world, I can’t imagine the demands they place on their workers.

Part of the reason Amazon is going into their own distribution business is because FedEx and UPS were not willing to make the investments in adding capacity to their linehaul, express, and last mile just to handle more influx from Amazon. Amazon negotiates the absolute lowest rates, to the point where UPS and FedEx are breaking even on Amazon volume. From a friend of mine who works at UPS (volume planner for air freight), UPS gives Amazon a fixed amount of volume they can fly (since they are breaking even) and once they fill that (secret) volume UPS will cut them off.

If Amazon drives their suppliers and contractors to the point where they have to distance themselves from one of the largest companies in the world, I can’t imagine the demands they place on their workers.

Breaking even doesn’t mean they weren’t making money. Sometimes you take volume clients to absorb overhead, making the other accounts more profitable. That said, if they were asked to expand, they might not want to take on overhead without assurances that Amazon might not be willing to give. When a single account becomes more than a certain percentage of your business, it can be risky. Doesn’t mean they were being taken advantage of by Amazon. The analysis of to do or not to do is much more complex than can be explained in a few sound bites.

How is it we know they were just breaking even anyway? Lots of companies take low margin “on top of” accounts for the volume and consistency?

Thank you. I couldn't ask for a better illustration/real world example of my point.

that temporary wage increases to find jobs result in those people being laid off the moment cheaper work becomes available? Yes... they technically can just pay whatever to find workers... heck, Amazon could pay each worker 120k a year for unskilled labor... and they would fill every position... but that doesn't mean it's good business sense to do so. I guess i'm still trying to figure out what your point is?

Wages are like rent...

The market completely dictates them.

Amazon, like every other employer, will have to pay people enough to fully staff these positions.

If they don't have enough (which seems highly unlikely) they will adjust.

And remember, they offer good benefits for this type of work and that matters a great deal to many.

Amazon, like every other employer, will have to pay people enough to fully staff these positions.

If they don't have enough (which seems highly unlikely) they will adjust..

Thank you.

Thank you.

I think for the most part we are saying the same thing... I think the point of contention came down to my use of the statement that amazon couldn't find enough workers.

the reality is that with unemployment so low, unskilled workers have much more freedom and options, and are more able to dictate more of their salaries and benefits. And that is the current situation we are in. and as Pete stated, that is why Amazon is looking into Robotics to reduce the number they need, because Amazon doesn't necessarily think it is good business sense to just pay what the market might be dictating for those positions when there might be a more long term cost effective and efficiency improving solution.

you are write, I gave you a perfect example to prove your point, when I also agree with, that is why I gave that example... but the situation is way more complicated than just that. because the end result is that because Amazon was not able to find enough employees at the cost estimates they deemed acceptable... it has made putting research and money into robotics to replace those jobs and improve efficiency much more cost effective. So they are going with what they think is the more long term better option. the state of the economy causing a situation where they must adjust their strategy for finding workers to fill all the positions has resulted in reducing the number of positions they needed to fill. Yes, I know your initial joke was about companies saying they would become bankrupt if they had to pay a penny more... but the reality is that while some workers will be paid more, there will be fewer overall positions as a result, because when your responsibility is to shareholders, the bottom line, sadly is all that matters.

noticed this morning that the frame on the okc fulfillment center is already starting to go up... construction is going at warp speed.

noticed this morning that the frame on the okc fulfillment center is already starting to go up... construction is going at warp speed.

Have they gone plaid yet?

Have they gone plaid yet?

14760

this is is from today... there's not much apparent scale from the image but that's four stories tall.

14776

Have they gone plaid yet?

prepare for... ludicrous speed
14777

I knew it! I'm surrounded by...

From Jeepnokc:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/amazon072618.jpg

The speed they're moving reminds me of the Fedex facility they just built by my house. I was amazed by how quick that developed.

Could we get these construction folks to take over our roads and project 180?

The speed they're moving reminds me of the Fedex facility they just built by my house. I was amazed by how quick that developed.

Could we get these construction folks to take over our roads and project 180?
A huge AMEN to that. I said that very same thing to my wife as we drove by yesterday.

I have a feeling they just duplicate the facilities from city to city - possibly adjusting for a choice of sizes desired in that city.

From Friday

14912

From Friday

14912

:omg:

That is a big facility.

Amazon will begin paying all employees a minimum of $15 an hour starting November 1.

Amazon will begin paying all employees a minimum of $15 an hour starting November 1.

That’s really good news for okc. Upward pressure in wages.

https://apnews.com/amp/222764a6535a4ce7a17c02c7405361f2?__twitter_impress ion=true

$15 / hour equates to $30K per year plus benefits.

Considering there is considerable opportunity for overtime, it wouldn't be hard to make $40K in total compensation from these Amazon jobs.

That goes a long way in Oklahoma, especially if there is a 2nd income.

Yeah, these Amazon jobs all of sudden are looking pretty lucrative for a lot of people in the city. This is going to cause huge disruptions for local employers. Heck I was already feeling pretty under paid at 40k a year working in IT in education given the amount of work I do. Now a Amazon worker will make close to what I do with overtime.

If you want a good chuckle this morning go back a few pages on this thread and read all the comments from posters complaining about the salaries, and basically saying "yea those are new jobs, but low pay jobs that aren't good at all". trying to downplay the entire project.

If you want a good chuckle this morning go back a few pages on this thread and read all the comments from posters complaining about the salaries, and basically saying "yea those are new jobs, but low pay jobs that aren't good at all". trying to downplay the entire project.

well, to be fair, they weren't wrong at the time.

and it's a bit rich for Amazon to make this move and then immediately ask Congress to raise the federal minimum wage.

God bless Bernie Sanders.

God bless Bernie Sanders.

There was another certain polarizing political feature for better or for worst put pressure on Amazon. They realized it was a dumb idea to have a Democrat and a Republican constantly saying bad things about them.

I'm going to go ahead and get my laugh at this post. The people pages back who showed anger towards this $$$$$$$ company
refusing to pay it's employees a livable wage are a part of why this happened.


If you want a good chuckle this morning go back a few pages on this thread and read all the comments from posters complaining about the salaries, and basically saying "yea those are new jobs, but low pay jobs that aren't good at all". trying to downplay the entire project.

The minimum wage at Hobby Lobby is close to 16 an hour, so Amazon will probably apply more upward pressure. I'm glad I bought my house where I did. Hopefully I'll get faster equity build

people who work at hobby lobby stores make $16/hr? If true thats great... I know a few of their
drivers, and they do pretty well. Hilarious dudes. One is a definitive good ol boy who always tells me
funny stories of driving a HL truck on the west coast and people flipping him off non-stop. He just laughs it off.... life
is always better when you can afford things...

The folks stocking at Target this morning were all talking about this.

If you want a good chuckle this morning go back a few pages on this thread and read all the comments from posters complaining about the salaries, and basically saying "yea those are new jobs, but low pay jobs that aren't good at all". trying to downplay the entire project.

Sometimes to get to the job you want you have to go through 3-4 you don't. Jobs are jobs.

The Amazon pay raise apparently also extends to Whole Foods employees.

$15.00 in OKC is a pretty big deal, but not in more expensive cities like New York and San Francisco. Good for us!

Will be interesting to see if they start using temps from 3rd parties.... sure they will during seasonal, and
probably will for just regular scenarios....

people who work at hobby lobby stores make $16/hr? If true thats great... I know a few of their
drivers, and they do pretty well. Hilarious dudes. One is a definitive good ol boy who always tells me
funny stories of driving a HL truck on the west coast and people flipping him off non-stop. He just laughs it off.... life
is always better when you can afford things...
I think store pay is a little lower, but it's at least close to 16 at the distribution center. Truck maintenance starts at 17

Almost all of our entry level jobs where I work start at $14-$15 an hour plus benefits, and that's basically answering the phone and doing minor administrative work. Nowadays I feel like you got to earn at least $60-75k a year to just be that middle class family that's the supposed American dream. I guess my point is while $15 is an improvement, I still don't feel like wage is all that great in OKC unless I was a young single person.

Almost all of our entry level jobs where I work start at $14-$15 an hour plus benefits, and that's basically answering the phone and doing minor administrative work. Nowadays I feel like you got to earn at least $60-75k a year to just be that middle class family that's the supposed American dream. I guess my point is while $15 is an improvement, I still don't feel like wage is all that great in OKC unless I was a young single person.

Goes a whole heck of a lot further here than in other cities where they will still pay $15 or so per hour. I'm not letting great be the enemy of good.

The folks stocking at Target this morning were all talking about this.

I think Amazon's goal is to get ahead of the pack, eliminate the pack, and then go back to hideous wages
for the workers.....

I think Amazon's goal is to get ahead of the pack, eliminate the pack, and then go back to hideous wages
for the workers.....

No...there are laws in place to prevent that.

No...there are laws in place to prevent that.

monopoly laws? Are any being enforced currently?

I think Amazon's goal is to get ahead of the pack, eliminate the pack, and then go back to hideous wages
for the workers.....

No, Amazon's goal is to automate nearly all these jobs and employ as few people as possible. As soon as possible. In the next few years these warehouses that employ thousand will employ hundreds, and then after that, dozens.

I think Amazon's goal is to get ahead of the pack, eliminate the pack, and then go back to hideous wages
for the workers.....

have any details to back that statement up?

No, Amazon's goal is to automate nearly all these jobs and employ as few people as possible. As soon as possible. In the next few years these warehouses that employ thousand will employ hundreds, and then after that, dozens.

that is probably much more accurate

Goes a whole heck of a lot further here than in other cities where they will still pay $15 or so per hour. I'm not letting great be the enemy of good.

I'm with you, not denying any of that.

have any details to back that statement up?

Just looking at history of these sorts of things, this is what quite often happens. I know that I am not
the chamber of commerce, and therefore have to thoroughly document and back up with serious academic
research that I say...where they can just make a statement and that is that. But I don't really feel like it, so lets, as
always, just sit back and watch!

No, Amazon's goal is to automate nearly all these jobs and employ as few people as possible. As soon as possible. In the next few years these warehouses that employ thousand will employ hundreds, and then after that, dozens.

Automation jobs do have higher paying salaries so that’s a plus.

Nobody can even say "$15 is too much money" with a straight face, when the Amazon founder, along with two other people, have more wealth than half the people in the United States*.

* https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2018/jul/19/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-bill-gates-jeff-bezos-warren-buffet/
* https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/09/gates-bezos-buffett-have-more-wealth-than-half-the-us-combined.html
* https://dailycaller.com/2017/11/09/gates-buffett-and-bezos-are-as-rich-as-the-bottom-half-of-america/
* https://www.forbes.com/sites/noahkirsch/2017/11/09/the-3-richest-americans-hold-more-wealth-than-bottom-50-of-country-study-finds/#3d92998d3cf8
Please note: The gaps have widened since the data above was published. It's just not known by how much.

** The above is a contender for the definition of insanity.

Most of their money is tied up in some kind of investment. If we see a recession we will see how real their money really is. Their money is helping to prop up this bubble. I will agree though that if we have more Americans saving up wealth that this would be better for the U.S. in the long term.

Amazons revenge?
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/amazon-developing-picking-robots-for-warehouses

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/amazon102018a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/amazon102018b.jpg

should be great for Adecco and friends, hire on 3rd party employees so as to avoid the $15/hr + benefit jive...

Hopefully thousands of people working here will help spur development of Larriat Landing

Nobody can even say "$15 is too much money" with a straight face, when the Amazon founder, along with two other people, have more wealth than half the people in the United States*.

* https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2018/jul/19/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-bill-gates-jeff-bezos-warren-buffet/
* https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/09/gates-bezos-buffett-have-more-wealth-than-half-the-us-combined.html
* https://dailycaller.com/2017/11/09/gates-buffett-and-bezos-are-as-rich-as-the-bottom-half-of-america/
* https://www.forbes.com/sites/noahkirsch/2017/11/09/the-3-richest-americans-hold-more-wealth-than-bottom-50-of-country-study-finds/#3d92998d3cf8
Please note: The gaps have widened since the data above was published. It's just not known by how much.

** The above is a contender for the definition of insanity.

Wrong. Comparing the pay of the least skilled worker to the owner of the most equity is a fool’s errand. But apparently some folks enjoy making such errands.

The scale of this place is hard to comprehend.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/amazon121618a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/amazon121618c.jpg