View Full Version : 2018 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread



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OUman
07-21-2018, 12:40 PM
Guess I've been lucky. I've connected at DFW, DAL, IAH and HOU multiple times combined and have rarely had issues with weather delays. None in the summer, and only once or twice in the winter, when AA sees some snowflakes and cancels all OKC flights to DFW (exaggerating here, but you get the idea).

damonsmuz
07-23-2018, 09:03 PM
Can someone explain what is up with this flight? Did it not have enough fuel to make it to DEN? JAX-OKC-DEN?? Or, was it something else?

14781

catch22
07-23-2018, 09:35 PM
Can someone explain what is up with this flight? Did it not have enough fuel to make it to DEN? JAX-OKC-DEN?? Or, was it something else?

14781


Probably not, huge storms hit the Front Range today. They likely didn’t have enough fuel to hold for long enough. From what I understand they had all arrival cooridors shut down for almost an hour. That’s a lot of hold fuel.

damonsmuz
07-23-2018, 10:13 PM
Also, don't know how big this is but I see that Delta is keeping 2 flights daily to SLC in December. Someone can correct me on this but I feel like Delta used to only send us 1 flight a day in the winter. So, 2 flights a day is nice. Both of a CRJ-700

catch22
07-29-2018, 08:06 AM
Not OKC related but Delta drops DTW (Detroit) to TUL in October; permanent cut.

I think that's a major indictment on how Tulsa is performing as a whole. Airlines really don't like cutting hub markets, especially to middle tier cities. Even if they are slightly losing money or breaking even, the additional traffic volume provided through the hub can make other flights profitable. So it is saying something when Delta is dropping that.

damonsmuz
07-29-2018, 02:32 PM
How are the numbers for DL on TUL-DTW??? vs. OKC-DTW???

catch22
07-29-2018, 03:03 PM
How are the numbers for DL on TUL-DTW??? vs. OKC-DTW???

Financial numbers? That level of detail is pretty proprietary.

gopokes88
07-29-2018, 03:46 PM
Not OKC related but Delta drops DTW (Detroit) to TUL in October; permanent cut.

I think that's a major indictment on how Tulsa is performing as a whole. Airlines really don't like cutting hub markets, especially to middle tier cities. Even if they are slightly losing money or breaking even, the additional traffic volume provided through the hub can make other flights profitable. So it is saying something when Delta is dropping that.

Tulsa's economy as a whole is really stagnant. Not struggling, but stagnant. I hope the park gives it an energy or a drive to invest in the city. OKC and OK needs a thriving Tulsa.

BG918
07-29-2018, 04:20 PM
Tulsa's economy as a whole is really stagnant. Not struggling, but stagnant. I hope the park gives it an energy or a drive to invest in the city. OKC and OK needs a thriving Tulsa.

I wouldn’t call the Tulsa economy stagnant but it’s definitely not growing rapidly. Tulsa’s MO is slow and steady growth, and that’s the way many Tulsans like it.

Losing the DTW nonstop is disappointing but overall passenger activity at TUL is up 5% for the fiscal year ending in June 2018, the largest increase at the airport since 2006. So positive numbers for both airports as both metros seem to be in a growth spurt after the “mini-recession” of 2014-2016 caused by low energy prices.

catch22
07-29-2018, 04:29 PM
I wouldn’t call the Tulsa economy stagnant but it’s definitely not growing rapidly. Tulsa’s MO is slow and steady growth, and that’s the way many Tulsans like it.

Losing the DTW nonstop is disappointing but overall passenger activity at TUL is up 5% for the fiscal year ending in June 2018, the largest increase at the airport since 2006. So positive numbers for both airports as both metros seem to be in a growth spurt after the “mini-recession” of 2014-2016 caused by low energy prices.

I would argue that low fare competition in Tulsa is hurting their yields while artificially boosting passenger numbers. The same is likely happening in OKC but business traffic is holding steady enough to not hurt the legacies too much.

damonsmuz
07-29-2018, 06:35 PM
Im sorry for being vague there. I meant, seat loads, etc. Im assuming that AA is the powerhorse in that market.

gopokes88
07-29-2018, 08:27 PM
I wouldn’t call the Tulsa economy stagnant but it’s definitely not growing rapidly. Tulsa’s MO is slow and steady growth, and that’s the way many Tulsans like it.

Losing the DTW nonstop is disappointing but overall passenger activity at TUL is up 5% for the fiscal year ending in June 2018, the largest increase at the airport since 2006. So positive numbers for both airports as both metros seem to be in a growth spurt after the “mini-recession” of 2014-2016 caused by low energy prices.

Okc is up 12% and coming out of a mini recession you’d expect more than a 5% rebound.

Slow and steady maybe their MO but I wish they wanted more I guess. Oh well

s00nr1
07-31-2018, 02:24 PM
For anyone who has been considering a trip to San Antonio -- Frontier is having a pretty nice sale today *starting* at $15 each way. I have to make a trip down there in September for a conference and with a carry on and stretch seat the total came to $59 each way. Not bad at all.

shawnw
08-02-2018, 11:11 AM
This guy from LA is moving to OKC...

https://www.richardjanes.com/blog/why-we-are-moving-the-janes-family-from-los-angeles-to-oklahoma-city

And he states that the direct flight to LA was factored into his decision...

https://twitter.com/RichardJanes/status/1024825042121584641

Jake
08-02-2018, 11:21 AM
Very cool!!! ^^^

HOT ROD
08-02-2018, 03:22 PM
and also LOVE the comments. Just think what the comment section USED to be for anything having to do with OKC some 25+ years ago (even 5-10 years ago the comment sections would still bad despite not being true).

And to think of the growth that OKC will experience the next 2-5 years and beyond; its staggering.

catch22
08-05-2018, 09:56 AM
This weekend’s schedule load:

okc-lax increases to 3 daily on AA for November, they did not load it any further than that; which indicates they aren’t extremely confident in that much capacity. I’m also counting 10 daily to DFW. (3x 738, 5x S80, 1x E75, 1x CR9)

United suspends Okc-ewr for Jan feb and March per usual.

brianinok
08-05-2018, 01:45 PM
This weekend’s schedule load:

okc-lax increases to 3 daily on AA for November, they did not load it any further than that; which indicates they aren’t extremely confident in that much capacity. I’m also counting 10 daily to DFW. (3x 738, 5x S80, 1x E75, 1x CR9)

United suspends Okc-ewr for Jan feb and March per usual.OKC-LAX used to be 3x daily until the PHX flight, right? Or did I dream that up? Any chance if adding this 3rd flight is remotely successful they'll continue it past November, or perhaps bring it back when traffic picks back up in the spring on a permanent basis?

I don't know what to think of United. They throw us the occasional mainline to ORD, DEN, and IAH and I think they might be getting serious about OKC, but they do things like this to make me think OKC could be growing at 50% annually and they wouldn't add any real capacity no matter what. They dropped the LAX flight (a hub for them). They don't increase the SFO frequency, and that once daily flight (based on my experience-- granted, not statistics) is always full. Basically, they're giving us a token flight each to IAD and SFO, and a seasonal token flight to EWR.

catch22
08-05-2018, 02:31 PM
OKC-LAX:

2008-2010: UA 1x DL (1x 2008)
2011: AA 2x UA 1x
2012: AA 3x UA 2x
2013-2014: AA 2x UA 2x
2015-2016: AA 2x UA 1x
2017: AA 2x,UA 1x, G4 (summer seasonal, 3x weekly)
2018: AA 2x (3x Nov), G4 (summer seasonal, 3x weekly)

kukblue1
08-05-2018, 04:57 PM
ATADS : Airport Operations : Ranking Report
From 07/01/2017 To 06/30/2018
Ranked by : Total Operations (100,000 or greater) OKC is 125 Tul is 106 Total operations Tul 130,010 OKC 112,946

HOT ROD
08-05-2018, 08:15 PM
TUL must have more general and maintenance ops than OKC to get a higher ranking and/or smaller planes; since OKC should have way more commercial than TUL given the destinations and amount of pax at OKC.

jonny d
08-05-2018, 08:41 PM
TUL must have more general and maintenance ops than OKC to get a higher ranking and/or smaller planes; since OKC should have way more commercial than TUL given the destinations and amount of pax at OKC.

They are the main maintenance base for American Airlines, I believe. So that is reasonable.

kukblue1
08-05-2018, 10:46 PM
# Facility AirCarrier AirTaxi General Aviation Military Total Civil Military Total Total Operations
106 TUS 35,961 13,434 37,268 13,697 100,360 22,103 7,547 29,650 130,010
125 OKC 49,857 9,252 18,384 21,643 99,136 1,249 12,561 13,810 112,946
Itinerant Local

So what is difference between Itinerant and Local?

Downwind17
08-06-2018, 10:16 AM
TUL also has a far busier, more complex ANG base than OKC. The F-16s there do touch and go's all day when they're up. That, and the AA maintenance base, likely make the number of total ops for TUL higher.

HangryHippo
08-06-2018, 10:38 AM
Catch - what are the most likely next destinations you think OKC will see added?

catch22
08-06-2018, 10:55 AM
Catch - what are the most likely next destinations you think OKC will see added?

Hard to say really. I think we could end up with MIA at some point in the near future. AA has been adding a few markets from MIA similar to how they connected some dots to PHL/PHX prior to us getting PHL/PHX.

I have been expecting DL to add LAX, after United exited the market. They have a weak presence in the west from OKC so that would help that. AA seems pretty committed to that market so it may not be worth the effort for them.

Frontier or Allegiant could surprise us any day, of course.

I would like to see Southwest go daily on Nashville or Orlando.

kukblue1
08-06-2018, 11:36 AM
Local Civil looking at the numbers is where the huge difference is.

HOT ROD
08-06-2018, 02:07 PM
Im not surprised at the Air Carrier numbers, I actually expected OKC to have more that that but I suppose we do get bigger planes. But I am surprised at the amount of Air Taxi, I thought OKC would be significantly higher. Or does Wiley Post siphon away most of the air taxi from WRWA?

Not shocked by TUL's lead in military or local civil though. WRWA is positioned as a commercial airport first and foremost whereas TUL seems to be more diverse.

kukblue1
08-06-2018, 05:17 PM
So sorry I was looking at Tus numbers not Tul number here is TUL

# Facility AirCarrier AirTaxi General Aviation Military Total Civil Military Total Total Operations

125 OKC 49,857 9,252 18,384 21,643 99,136 1,249 12,561 13,810 112,946
140 TUL 33,607 14,395 22,791 15,310 86,103 6,139 10,489 16,628 102,731

Tul 140 OKC 106 Sorry

Swake
08-06-2018, 10:54 PM
So sorry I was looking at Tus numbers not Tul number here is TUL

# Facility AirCarrier AirTaxi General Aviation Military Total Civil Military Total Total Operations

125 OKC 49,857 9,252 18,384 21,643 99,136 1,249 12,561 13,810 112,946
140 TUL 33,607 14,395 22,791 15,310 86,103 6,139 10,489 16,628 102,731

Tul 140 OKC 106 Sorry

By operations Jones-Riverside is busiest airport in the state and it's not really close.

HOT ROD
08-07-2018, 11:18 AM
still surprised by the Air Taxi discrepancy.

catch22
08-09-2018, 10:24 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/viaair-passengers-claim-airline-stranded-them-450-miles-from-destination-denied-compensation/ar-BBLFTfH?ocid=spartanntp

OUman
08-09-2018, 10:30 AM
^I recall reading about this somewhere else on the web, happened a while back. I think it was in one of the reviews you see on TripAdvisor or some website. Maybe Via Air actually stands for getting from A to B. VIA unexpected stops?

catch22
08-09-2018, 10:40 AM
I looked through flightaware and found 3 separate instances where they flew to TUL to pick up stranded passengers.

BG918
08-09-2018, 10:49 AM
I looked through flightaware and found 3 separate instances where they flew to TUL to pick up stranded passengers.

Might as well fly Southwest or AA with a stop in Dallas then mess with VIA Air and their shenanigans. Hoping the Delta focus city at AUS rumor is true and OKC/TUL can get regional jet nonstops as it's a good business link for Oklahoma.

OUman
08-09-2018, 11:15 AM
Might as well fly Southwest or AA with a stop in Dallas then mess with VIA Air and their shenanigans. Hoping the Delta focus city at AUS rumor is true and OKC/TUL can get regional jet nonstops as it's a good business link for Oklahoma.

Pretty sure it's official (https://www.google.com/search?q=delta+austin+focus&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1) that DL will make Austin Bergstrom a focus operation. Not sure OKC or TUL are in its top destination list though, I'm guessing more prominent business centers will be the priority. It would be nice to get a nonstop Austin link with a well-established, much more reliable carrier though.

gopokes88
08-09-2018, 03:38 PM
https://thepointsguy.com/news/passengers-say-via-air-stranded-them-450-miles-from-destination/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Story is starting to go a little more national

catch22
08-09-2018, 04:00 PM
https://thepointsguy.com/news/passengers-say-via-air-stranded-them-450-miles-from-destination/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Story is starting to go a little more national

Yeah it was posted to airliners.net; which most travel blogs mine for info/stories/gossip. Major news organizations also occasionally lift things from there.

jedicurt
08-10-2018, 09:51 AM
Yeah it was posted to airliners.net; which most travel blogs mine for info/stories/gossip. Major news organizations also occasionally lift things from there.

good to know. i can tell you all sorts of credible sites when it comes to science, economics, and even computer related tech... but i don't have my pulse on the aviation community, so it's always good to know a bit about a few known-to-be-credible sites!

no1cub17
08-10-2018, 10:35 AM
Wow what a horrible excuse for an airline. I can't imagine they're long for this world. The low fares are only worth it if you get the product they promised!

catch22
08-10-2018, 05:23 PM
https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/News/July2018Enplanement.pdf

OKC exceeds 200K enplanements, I believe this is the first time we’ve had 400k+ through the doors in a month.

Edit: disregard I completely forgot about last month. My memory is better than that, I thought . :)

gopokes88
08-10-2018, 05:45 PM
Slowest month of the year % growth wise

jonny d
08-10-2018, 06:20 PM
Slowest month of the year % growth wise

Skies falling.

gopokes88
08-10-2018, 11:31 PM
Skies falling.

Should probably cancel the expansion tbh

jonny d
08-11-2018, 09:45 AM
Should probably cancel the expansion tbh

Agreed! Lol!

I am a bit surprised, like you were, that July was the slowest growth month. But an improvement is always welcomed!

catch22
08-11-2018, 10:10 AM
I think it’s a matter of relative capacity being higher in the winter and spring, which allowed more room to grow in the slow months. For example, departure capacity may have been 175K in January while the previous year was 145K. While in july capacity was 230K vs 215K last year. In other words, airlines added more capacity in the shoulder months and slightly raised the capacity from last year for peak.

Flights are definitely full.

gopokes88
08-11-2018, 10:22 AM
Yeah because at a certain point without more gates, planes and routes the growth starts to cap off. Only so many seats.

jonny d
08-11-2018, 10:38 AM
I think it’s a matter of relative capacity being higher in the winter and spring, which allowed more room to grow in the slow months. For example, departure capacity may have been 175K in January while the previous year was 145K. While in july capacity was 230K vs 215K last year. In other words, airlines added more capacity in the shoulder months and slightly raised the capacity from last year for peak.

Flights are definitely full.

Are there any rumblings of new routes coming down the pike? A route to NYC would kill here, in my opinion, at least!

no1cub17
08-12-2018, 11:59 AM
Are there any rumblings of new routes coming down the pike? A route to NYC would kill here, in my opinion, at least!

DL to LGA seems most likely - if we were to get NYC service. Seems like it's a ways off. AA has grown impressively but with the addition of PHL, seems unlikely they'd add LGA.

no1cub17
08-12-2018, 12:00 PM
Yeah because at a certain point without more gates, planes and routes the growth starts to cap off. Only so many seats.

I doubt gates are the issue. Doesn't seem like we have nearly the gate utilization of bigger airports. The airlines seem to be adding flights when the demand is there - I don't recall hearing anyone saying they'd add a flight but couldn't due to gate space.

catch22
08-12-2018, 01:16 PM
I doubt gates are the issue. Doesn't seem like we have nearly the gate utilization of bigger airports. The airlines seem to be adding flights when the demand is there - I don't recall hearing anyone saying they'd add a flight but couldn't due to gate space.

I will say the morning hours are pretty clogged up. But nothing that is hampering growth. American has to use Gate 1 in the mornings.

OUman
08-12-2018, 10:54 PM
The gate clogging issue is most likely only for the busier summer season when airlines add capacity. In the winter months there are less flights because of decreased demand so not so much of an issue then. We're nowhere like Love Field where all gates are chock full all day long.

gopokes88
08-13-2018, 09:44 AM
I’ve really started to hate love field and SW’s obsession with cramming 79,938,833 flights in and out of there daily has made me start tos our on them as well.

damonsmuz
08-13-2018, 12:35 PM
Random, last night we flew in and there was an AirTran 717 sitting over near The FAA Center. Anyone know what's up with that aircraft and why it's still in AirTran paint ?

shawnw
08-13-2018, 01:29 PM
possibly for CAMI training or research?

gopokes88
08-13-2018, 01:41 PM
I’ve really started to hate love field and SW’s obsession with cramming 79,938,833 flights in and out of there daily has me starting to turn on them as well.

F'in autocorrect

pure
08-13-2018, 05:56 PM
Random, last night we flew in and there was an AirTran 717 sitting over near The FAA Center. Anyone know what's up with that aircraft and why it's still in AirTran paint ?

Pretty sure it's for Metro Tech's aviation program, so training and what not.

catch22
08-14-2018, 12:44 PM
Random, last night we flew in and there was an AirTran 717 sitting over near The FAA Center. Anyone know what's up with that aircraft and why it's still in AirTran paint ?

It’s actually a DC-9 (proper) and was donated at some point to Metro Tech. I went to school there for my aircraft mechanic license. It’s in very poor condition and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it sent to the scrapper at some point. It’s not even really used for training other than having something big to walk around and look at.

no1cub17
08-14-2018, 01:33 PM
It’s actually a DC-9 (proper) and was donated at some point to Metro Tech. I went to school there for my aircraft mechanic license. It’s in very poor condition and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it sent to the scrapper at some point. It’s not even really used for training other than having something big to walk around and look at.

I was gonna say - if it was actually a 717 in good condition, I bet Hawaiian would've paid top dollar for it.

OUman
08-22-2018, 07:21 PM
I noticed on FlightAware today that F9 has been flying 321-200s the past couple of runs between here and MCO. Most likely not a long-term thing but hopefully a sign that the service is gaining momentum. Then again it's F9, so you never know... But I don't think we've had scheduled 321s before at OKC so it's kind of cool. We have had 757s before briefly for the summer season by United for a month or two in the past.