Where do you live?

I see that a Southwest flight landed at WRWA at 12:46 am (delayed 18 minutes from scheduled), and another Southwest at 1:58 am (delayed 1 hr, 25 minutes)...

I saw Tinker is one of the locations taking B1s to work on the ejector seat problems. Maybe it has to do with that?

Tinker is the programmed depot maintenance facility for B-1s (worked for the program for years), so every plane in the inventory visits Tinker every 5 years for scheduled maintenance. Just saying B-1s flying around the area is not an unusual thing. Also, there is no confusing the sound of a B-1 for a "small jet". It has a long, deep, rumble of a noise that is fairly distinct among the aircraft we get around here.

Tinker is the programmed depot maintenance facility for B-1s (worked for the program for years), so every plane in the inventory visits Tinker every 5 years for scheduled maintenance. Just saying B-1s flying around the area is not an unusual thing. Also, there is no confusing the sound of a B-1 for a "small jet". It has a long, deep, rumble of a noise that is fairly distinct among the aircraft we get around here.

Doesn’t have the same type of engines as the F-15? Just more of them?

I’m not super familiar with the military birds.

Tinker is the programmed depot maintenance facility for B-1s (worked for the program for years), so every plane in the inventory visits Tinker every 5 years for scheduled maintenance. Just saying B-1s flying around the area is not an unusual thing. Also, there is no confusing the sound of a B-1 for a "small jet". It has a long, deep, rumble of a noise that is fairly distinct among the aircraft we get around here.

Thanks!

Doesn’t have the same type of engines as the F-15? Just more of them?

I’m not super familiar with the military birds.

Different engines. The F-15 produces about 48,000 pounds of thrust, whereas the B-1 is capable of 120,000.

https://newsok.com/article/5598827/okc-picks-up-marketing-tab-for-some-nonstop-flights

I would very much be on board with the 2 flights they are working to get (Miami and LaGuardia).

And yes, pun intended. Haha

https://newsok.com/article/5598827/okc-picks-up-marketing-tab-for-some-nonstop-flights

I would very much be on board with the 2 flights they are working to get (Miami and LaGuardia).

And yes, pun intended. Haha

I would imagine AA would be the one to start MIA if that happens. Not sure about LGA - maybe DL? Now that AA has added PHL, I don't see them adding LGA out of OKC, but I'm just armchair quarterbacking.

I saw that DL is turning AUS into a focus city. Will be interesting to see how the approach the new cities. Will they compete against WN and try to connect regional cities with a few bigger cities mixed in or will they just go with a bunch of bigger cities.

BTW: Crazy DL story for me. Flew out of OKC to ATL this past Saturday on a 737-700. Flight made it south of Birmingham and to the Alabama/Georgia state line when the pilot came on and said we did not have enough fuel to make it into ATL. We did not circle any but did make a small deviation into ATl compared to how you would normally do it. I don't know if there are any DL employees on here but is the airline really running certain flights with the bare minimum fuel allowed? How often does DL refuel in OKC? I find it unbelievable that this flight here, 90 mins into it could not proceed into ATL. (BTW, we were cleared into the airport but according to the pilot we didn't have enough fuel for the approach where you fly east of the city and then turn and have a long final. He could only get in if we had a direct shot. Odd, I know)

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I saw that DL is turning AUS into a focus city. Will be interesting to see how the approach the new cities. Will they compete against WN and try to connect regional cities with a few bigger cities mixed in or will they just go with a bunch of bigger cities.


I would imagine it is a mix of both connecting regional cities to AUS and flying more P2P to large cities including a couple international routes like AMS year-round. Probably similar to their CVG or RDU operation. It could open up the possibility of connecting OKC and TUL with a smaller aircraft. Not sure how VIA Air would respond. :o

I saw that DL is turning AUS into a focus city. Will be interesting to see how the approach the new cities. Will they compete against WN and try to connect regional cities with a few bigger cities mixed in or will they just go with a bunch of bigger cities.

BTW: Crazy DL story for me. Flew out of OKC to ATL this past Saturday on a 737-700. Flight made it south of Birmingham and to the Alabama/Georgia state line when the pilot came on and said we did not have enough fuel to make it into ATL. We did not circle any but did make a small deviation into ATl compared to how you would normally do it. I don't know if there are any DL employees on here but is the airline really running certain flights with the bare minimum fuel allowed? How often does DL refuel in OKC? I find it unbelievable that this flight here, 90 mins into it could not proceed into ATL. (BTW, we were cleared into the airport but according to the pilot we didn't have enough fuel for the approach where you fly east of the city and then turn and have a long final. He could only get in if we had a direct shot. Odd, I know)

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Keep in mind you have to have enough fuel (before beginning the approach) to fly the full approach, one go around, and then enough fuel to divert from the go around to an alternate airport and enough fuel to do a missed approach at the diversion airport. You had enough fuel to go to ATL. Maybe not enough fuel for extra contingency.

Keep in mind you have to have enough fuel (before beginning the approach) to fly the full approach, one go around, and then enough fuel to divert from the go around to an alternate airport and enough fuel to do a missed approach at the diversion airport. You had enough fuel to go to ATL. Maybe not enough fuel for extra contingency.

But why? OKC-ATL is their most flown route daily.... you'd think they know how to fuel up for that?

But why? OKC-ATL is their most flown route daily.... you'd think they know how to fuel up for that?

Something is off ... the pilot shouldn't have said "we don't have enough fuel to get to ATL". In that case I'm sorry but the flight wouldn't have made it. I'm guessing the pilot meant to say they were running low on reserve fuel which as catch described is enough fuel to go around, divert, plus 45 minutes (I may be wrong on that though). It is bizarre that fuel would be an issue at all on an OKC-ATL flight though, unless there was some kind of unforeseen delay, bad weather at an alternate, etc.

But why? OKC-ATL is their most flown route daily.... you'd think they know how to fuel up for that?

Yes. But they likely planned the fuel load based on a more direct flight path as well as a different approach. So, when they flew an indirect routing they are up their fuel that could have been used on the longer approach from the east. You still have to have on board enough fuel to fly the full approach, do a go around, fly to Birmingham, do another go around, and be able to land without declaring an emergency. Since they flew an indirect routing they simply weren’t legal to continue.

Sometimes things just don’t work out how they plan. Usually they do and no ones the wiser.

Via air is only running at 35% load factor company wide. So our 25% doesn’t look so bad by comparison.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/06/21/viaair-continues-rapid-expansion-at-largest-hub/

Just as an aside, AA/Eagle have long had a focus operation at AUS (at least I've seen it being referred to as such), and more recently Frontier has converted AUS into a focus airport as well. As for DL/DL Connection, they already fly between AUS and some non-hub destinations, RDU and CVG (CVG is not currently a hub in the DL network).

As for Via Air, hoping that the load factors will keep improving. Those 50-seat jets are not cheap to operate, especially with such low load factors.

some schedule changes I've ran across

Southwest ends okc-mdw and mco in feb; okc-dca flight times adjusted to midday departure.

American extends the summer schedule for clt through Oct (3x daily)

Delta adds ATL capacity in Oct, 1x 737-800 5x MD88 (fall is usually 2x 737-700 4x 717). Shifts all RJ flying in OKC to SkyWest (Likely at the request of SkyWest for efficiency with the mx base opening). The big airlines won't go out of their way to do this, but will usually be as accommodating as possible

Are the Southwest changes just seasonal?

Hard to tell. Their schedule window is so narrow you can only see 8-9 months out. If I remember right OKC-MDW had a brief suspension earlier this year around January. (I think). In august they will extend their schedule for the spring and we can see whats going on.

Hard to tell. Their schedule window is so narrow you can only see 8-9 months out. If I remember right OKC-MDW had a brief suspension earlier this year around January. (I think). In august they will extend their schedule for the spring and we can see whats going on.

I thought I saw something they were reducing mdw flights and the okc-mdw flight was getting cut.

How's ViaAir been doing lately? I see they've had a bunch of canceled flights in the last 10 days. Anyone here know how many people have been booking in July? Seems like a busy travel time of the year for a string of canceled flights

I’ve also noticed their abysmal cancel rate.

With all of these recent route additions from AUS, they are likely stretched on aircraft and crew availability. 1 frame down for unexpected maintenance could cripple their schedule.

I’ve also noticed their abysmal cancel rate.

With all of these recent route additions from AUS, they are likely stretched on aircraft and crew availability. 1 frame down for unexpected maintenance could cripple their schedule.

I know one person who was flying AUS-TUL and the flight was canceled at the last minute. They ended up getting back to TUL on Southwest via DAL and swore to never fly ViaAir again. I hope Delta does indeed make AUS a focus city and OKC and TUL get added as regional routes on RJ's.

Any rumblings on what Alaska might be up to soon in OKC? I think someone posted recently they repainted to accommodate all/most of their plane types.

Any rumblings on what Alaska might be up to soon in OKC? I think someone posted recently they repainted to accommodate all/most of their plane types.

I too, am anxiously awaiting any developments. The source mentioned "mid-summer" as a potential time period when something would be announced. So, we wait. We know that the yields on the OKC-SEA have been tremendous and quite consistent. Perhaps it's an additional SEA flight or something new. Yes, back in early May, they re-striped the j-line at gate 2 to include all Alaska fleet types (including ex-Virgin America types). This was done so they could accept company diversions. It does make you wonder how they could accept diversions if they are only staffing for one flight a day. Fingers crossed...

Seems like Via's expanding too rapidly when the equipment's just not there in numbers. Just a few quick searches on FlightAware for some of its routes turns up several cancelled flights just in the past ten days! Can't be doing much good for its reputation.

overbooked flights coming into okc, the question i have is where do these originate from?

my experience:

MSP-OKC (flight coming into okc) on Delta was a CRJ (maybe holds 70). My thought is the post 4thofJuly holiday has a boost of demand, hence:

it was overbooked this week by 5 for that flight(4702). so, they needed volunteers (me being one) and got 5 at $800 per. Whats the math with this, why not add a bigger aircraft?

An algorithm determines the number of seats an airline will oversell in order to make sure the airplane flies out full. Based on historical data, a particular theoretical flight serves by a 100 seat airplane may have a 2.6% no show factor, the airline will sell 103 tickets. On your average day 3 or so people will not show up for whatever reason (missed connection, late to the airport, overslept, car broke down, meeting ran late, etc.) and the flight will leave the gate with exactly 100 people on board and the airline won’t even ask for volunteers. The oversell algorithm worked and no one is the wiser. This revenue management tool actually works more often than not, and most flights are oversold but still leave with empty seats at door closing time.

Less likely is when everyone does show up and the airline has to ask for volunteers, such as your case.

overbooked flights coming into okc, the question i have is where do these originate from?

my experience:

MSP-OKC (flight coming into okc) on Delta was a CRJ (maybe holds 70). My thought is the post 4thofJuly holiday has a boost of demand, hence:

it was overbooked this week by 5 for that flight(4702). so, they needed volunteers (me being one) and got 5 at $800 per. Whats the math with this, why not add a bigger aircraft?Delta can't figure out what they want to do with OKC-MSP. I fly that route quite a bit, and I've been on everything: CRJ-200, CRJ-700, CRJ-900, ERJ-175, and A319. Most common the last couple years is CRJ-700. But that flight has always been full when I've been on it-- it doesn't matter if they are flying the route 2, 3, or 4 times that day (Delta can't decide how often they want to fly that route either). It is also almost always in the $500 range for regular coach (3-4 month out, even higher if booked closer to departure). It is the most frustrating route out of OKC as far as I am concerned.

From what I gather, what Delta/Delta Connection do is called "right-sizing" - putting just the right plane on a certain route based on expected demand. DL/DL Conn seem to take it to the limit however and that results in two things - a higher frequency of aircraft changes and higher frequency of full flights (thus, no matter what the aircraft type is). This has also resulted in higher profits for obvious reasons. Overbooking doesn't factor into it because no-shows are more subjective on a day-to-day basis. The 319 for instance is only operated on this route in the summer, and that too when the demand dictates it.

Josh - any idea when the June aviation activity report will be posted to flyokc.com? Thanks!

Josh - any idea when the June aviation activity report will be posted to flyokc.com? Thanks!

Sorry about that. I was out last week when the report came in. https://flyokc.com/june-2018-enplanement-report

Sorry about that. I was out last week when the report came in. https://flyokc.com/june-2018-enplanement-report
No problem at all, thanks for the link! Traffic growth for AA is good to see.

Sorry about that. I was out last week when the report came in. https://flyokc.com/june-2018-enplanement-reportWow, growth (AA, really) shows no sign of slowing down. Hopefully they like what they are seeing in OKC (load factors, rates, etc.) and can be talked into Miami and/or LaGuardia soon.

Via holding steady at 20% load factor. This does not factor in their cancellations (which would actually boost their load factor by having fewer seats) but I prefer to not factor in cancels because statistically you should go off of what they sold and intended to operate. It’s the same reason that diversions that cancel don’t count towards an airports DOT totals because the passengers didn’t intend to fly there when they purchased a ticket.

Frontier scheduled has been extended. SAT ends. DEN increases to daily service, MCO holds on.

Frontier scheduled has been extended. SAT ends. DEN increases to daily service, MCO holds on.
Is the SAT ending permanent? Was there just no traffic?

Is the SAT ending permanent? Was there just no traffic?

I’m not sure. It hasnt even started yet. The Frontier route planning department consists of a bottle of scotch, a map on the wall, and a handful of darts.

I’m not sure. It hasnt even started yet. The Frontier route planning department consists of a bottle of scotch, a map on the wall, and a handful of darts.
Hahaha.

I’m not sure. It hasnt even started yet. The Frontier route planning department consists of a bottle of scotch, a map on the wall, and a handful of darts.

Where do I apply?

overbooked flights coming into okc, the question i have is where do these originate from?

my experience:

MSP-OKC (flight coming into okc) on Delta was a CRJ (maybe holds 70). My thought is the post 4thofJuly holiday has a boost of demand, hence:

it was overbooked this week by 5 for that flight(4702). so, they needed volunteers (me being one) and got 5 at $800 per. Whats the math with this, why not add a bigger aircraft?

You can't just create a larger aircraft out of thin air. Most airlines utilize fleets to maximum efficiency with usually very little in terms of spares. A bigger aircraft would likely require an entirely different set of crew; those also don't just appear out of thin air.

As catch explained airlines overbook flights all the time - even if they give out $4k in vouchers on one flight, they must still be more than making that up. One flight doesn't tell the whole story. And besides, Delta knows that giving out a voucher makes you more likely to buy your next ticket with Delta the next time.

I wonder if, mathematically, they still count your original ticket purchase towards their numbers, because they aren't refunding you real cash. So in essence they're double dipping you and maybe that's part of why they're more than happy to give out those vouchers.

I wonder if, mathematically, they still count your original ticket purchase towards their numbers, because they aren't refunding you real cash. So in essence they're double dipping you and maybe that's part of why they're more than happy to give out those vouchers.
It probably isn't material to them, but this would be considered accounting fraud. They most likely defer the revenue until you use the voucher, since that is when the revenue is earned.

Ah okay

Your ticket and your reservation are two separate things. When you purchase an airline fare, your money is parked in the ticket and you are issued a reservation backed by the funds of your ticket. When you go through the gate reader and your boarding pass is scanned your reservation uses the funds from your ticket and your ticket balance is essentially $0. The flight closes and your ticket and reservation are then closed out together.

If you don’t board, your reservation will be canceled or moved, but your ticket is still sitting there holding value. After 90 days (or 365 on Southwest) your ticket is considered abandoned and the value of the ticket is forfeited to the airline.

Most airlines charge a change fee which makes using your ticket after missing a flight more difficult or less desirable. But the option is still there to use the ticket value.

Even then, flights aren’t accounted for on a day-day basis, the flight is often looked at for P&L over a 30-90 day basis. They know some days they will lose money and some days they will make money, but they need to make money over a longer period of time longer than a per flight basis. Some flights exist only for feed and this the airline doesn’t care if it makes money or not, if it helps a strategic cause of airline loyalty in a market, or feeding flights at a hub. An example is DEN-COS makes United $0 directly, but likely helps other flights be more profitable due to connections; as well as ensuring front range market share and loyalty.

An individual who is bumped can demand cash instead of a voucher. Why tie yourself to the airline that overbooked you?

An individual who is bumped can demand cash instead of a voucher. Why tie yourself to the airline that overbooked you?

That is only the case for an involuntarily denied boarding. If you volunteer and accept you cannot demand something else.

That is only the case for an involuntarily denied boarding. If you volunteer and accept you cannot demand something else.

Thanks for providing the clarification. Here is a story of a passenger who got a travel voucher for 10k out of UNITED last March. They really did not want to pay cash. The story offers helpful hints to air travelers as well. First rule-never accept the first offer.
https://clark.com/travel/how-one-bumped-airline-passenger-got-a-10000-voucher-from-united/

Why would you expect any company to? When your meal gets messed up at a restaurant they don’t hand you a couple $20’s, they give you a voucher to come back.

Don't they just comp your meal?

Why would you expect any company to? When your meal gets messed up at a restaurant they don’t hand you a couple $20’s, they give you a voucher to come back.

Whoa there my man. I never said anything about "expecting" cash. What I did say it was an option, that you corrected to involuntary bump. I thanked you for the clarification. If I was involuntarily bumped I would expect cash as an option because that is one of the rules the airline industry operates under. Since you brought up expectations though, when I fly I do not expect to be subject to a sale job for the airline credit card when I am a captive audience at 10k altitude.

Whoa there my man. I never said anything about "expecting" cash. What I did say it was an option, that you corrected to involuntary bump. I thanked you for the clarification. If I was involuntarily bumped I would expect cash as an option because that is one of the rules the airline industry operates under. Since you brought up expectations though, when I fly I do not expect to be subject to a sale job for the airline credit card.

Perhaps you took my post in the wrong tone. I was simply saying that you shouldn’t expect any company to want to give away cash in lieu of store credit. It’s probably changed since these voucher amounts have increased so much, but back when the limit was $1000, only 20-30% of people ever redeemed the vouchers. Since the amounts are more I bet they are closer to 50%.

Thank you for the follow up as I did misread your tone. Imagine that on msg. board, huh? You make a great point on why airlines prefer the vouchers as far as people actually using them.

Another reason is the airline doesn’t want to involuntary anyone. An IDB is always an unhappy customer. They are never a returning customer, and they are likely going to make a big deal on social media (rightfully so). $10k spent on a voluntary is a kick in the groin to the bean counters, but it preserves some good will, it will likely not have a huge social media impact, and if they do use it to go on vacation those vacation pictures might be “thanks for the trip to hawaii United, not a bad trade for taking a later flight into Cincinnati last year”

It’s the best of the worst options. Now personally I don’t like the overselling, it’s a thorn in my side when I’m trying to commute to work or go on vacation. But I don’t make that policy, and overall it helps the bottom line which means it’ll be longer before the next layoff cycle.

So this is a bit of a different topic, but why is it whenever I connect at a TX airport, I either am stuck in TX due to weather or late getting to TX due to weather or mechanical issues causing me to miss my connection. Then, when they try moving me to another flight most, if not all, flights to OKC are full with long standby lists and I usually have to wait a day before I get home. This has happened to me every time I have had a connection in TX, whether it be DFW, DAL, HOU, or IAH, no matter the airline. I will spend a little bit more just to not have a connection in TX. Another reason I like the SWA nonstop to BWI.

So this is a bit of a different topic, but why is it whenever I connect at a TX airport, I either am stuck in TX due to weather or late getting to TX due to weather or mechanical issues causing me to miss my connection. Then, when they try moving me to another flight most, if not all, flights to OKC are full with long standby lists and I usually have to wait a day before I get home. This has happened to me every time I have had a connection in TX, whether it be DFW, DAL, HOU, or IAH, no matter the airline. I will spend a little bit more just to not have a connection in TX. Another reason I like the SWA nonstop to BWI.


I'm so glad you said this. I thought I was crazy for thinking there might be a weather/mechanical issues conspiracy for DFW flights returning to OKC. I've had it happen on both DFW->OKC flights I've had this year. A couple we traveled with have experienced this 3 times this year! We didn't have to stay over night, but our flight was hours later than it was supposed to be. My stepdad flew up two weeks ago. Same. Story.

I'm so glad you said this. I thought I was crazy for thinking there might be a weather/mechanical issues conspiracy for DFW flights returning to OKC. I've had it happen on both DFW->OKC flights I've had this year. A couple we traveled with have experienced this 3 times this year! We didn't have to stay over night, but our flight was hours later than it was supposed to be. My stepdad flew up two weeks ago. Same. Story.

It happened to us on our way back from our honeymoon last October. And it just happened to us about a month ago when we were travelling back from the east coast. Then just yesterday my boss was talking about her business trip back from Omaha this past weekend and it was so bad that she and 3 other people shared a rental car from DAL to OKC. All but Enterprise was completely out of cars, and she said she had reserved the car online while they were waiting to be rebooked. When she was going to get her rental is when Enterprise ran out of cars, leaving many people stuck...

It happened to us on our way back from our honeymoon last October. And it just happened to us about a month ago when we were travelling back from the east coast. Then just yesterday my boss was talking about her business trip back from Omaha this past weekend and it was so bad that she and 3 other people shared a rental car from DAL to OKC. All but Enterprise was completely out of cars, and she said she had reserved the car online while they were waiting to be rebooked. When she was going to get her rental is when Enterprise ran out of cars, leaving many people stuck...I've only flown through DFW this year, but flights have all been full with standby, and once we were delayed for mechanical (a lightbulb was burned out....seriously). AA is doing quite well in OKC, especially between AA and DFW. Would be nice if they upgraded equipment to a few other hubs.

I’m concerned with the recent numbers showing 0 growth at the other carriers. They may be feeling downward pressure on yields from the explosive capacity from American. If that holds over the summer I wouldn’t be surprised to see some pullback from Southwest and United.

I’m concerned with the recent numbers showing 0 growth at the other carriers. They may be feeling downward pressure on yields from the explosive capacity from American. If that holds over the summer I wouldn’t be surprised to see some pullback from Southwest and United.I can't speak for United, but I can say Delta is still getting a pretty penny for flights to SLC and MSP. I know because I've bought them. I haven't bought anything on Southwest, but I've looked at a couple trips and it seems pretty normal for them-- a little cheaper than the legacy carriers sometimes, a little more expensive than the legacy carriers sometimes.

I’m concerned with the recent numbers showing 0 growth at the other carriers. They may be feeling downward pressure on yields from the explosive capacity from American. If that holds over the summer I wouldn’t be surprised to see some pullback from Southwest and United.
Is AA just trying to secure market share with the capacity additions from OKC? Delta's flight times and connections out of OKC to anywhere other than ATL suck and I try not to fly Southwest.