https://flightaware.com/live/flight/THT940/history/20181009/1500Z/KCHS/KOKC

Hopefully someone got a photo of this. Very rare sight for okc.

Wow I hope someone did! Must be taking delivery of a new 787 from the Boeing plant in SC.

Wow I hope someone did! Must be taking delivery of a new 787 from the Boeing plant in SC.

The airport's official Twitter account posted pictures: https://twitter.com/fly_okc/status/1049736371261382659

Fly okc’s twitter game is strong

Here is an article about why the 787 stopped here. For those of you not wanting to spend the time reading it, the pilots needed experience as both a pilot and co-pilot on the plane before flying over the Pacific.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/dreamliner-okc-pit-stop/

More pics here, https://www.instagram.com/planelycrazy/

BE sure to follow that guy on Instagram, he posts a ton of pics from the airport.

September numbers are in. Solid month. Via Air still struggles.

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/News/September2018Enplanement.pdf

How confident are you we break the 2 million mark?

September numbers are in. Solid month. Via Air still struggles.

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/News/September2018Enplanement.pdf
Holy United

How confident are you we break the 2 million mark?

Assuming you mean 4 million? I’d say we have already passed it (for example if growth hit 0% the rest of the year).

November and December are heavy months that usually have around 400k each.

Holy United

Nothing changed schedule-wise, so I am betting that they are more aggressive on pricing to bulk fill unsold seats. I did buy a last minute ticket to Denver for work this week for $39. Which explains why they may be reducing DEN so much. As mentioned before. The spring schedule has a 35% reduction in inventory for OKC-DEN.

Nothing changed schedule-wise, so I am betting that they are more aggressive on pricing to bulk fill unsold seats. I did buy a last minute ticket to Denver for work this week for $39. Which explains why they may be reducing DEN so much. As mentioned before. The spring schedule has a 35% reduction in inventory for OKC-DEN.

That makes sense. Den is a pretty saturated market with southwest, frontier also flying the route.

That makes sense. Den is a pretty saturated market with southwest, frontier also flying the route.

Catch correct me if I’m wrong but OKC-DEN currently has 9 nonstops (5x United, 3x Southwest, 1x Frontier)

What's with Allegiant? That's a huge increase (relatively speaking for its operations). United's/United Express' numbers are quite impressive as well.

I believe they operated their summer schedule a little later in the year. As did everybody. The shoulder months on the summer seem to be creeping further into May and September. This is likely due to lower fares in those months being more attractive since explosive summer growth is causing peak summer months to carry a higher premium.

AA adding a second PHX round trip beginning in February. The new flight will be a 5:55am departure.

Obviously AA is liking OKC.

My work usually books us on AA, and with the increased leisure options I might have to switch my meager miles to AA.

So come February, AA will have:
DFW 9x
ORD 3x
CLT 3x
LAX 2x
PHX 2x
PHL 2x
DCA 1x

Is this correct, catch?

If so, that's pretty dang impressive. Would think a 1x MIA and a 1x LGA could round things out and complete N/S service to all their hubs/focus cities.

CLT 2x ^ but yes very impressive schedule.

I'm guessing AA's first in line to get at least one of the four new gates when the first phase of the east concourse opens.

Here's the AA schedule for OKC for Feb 18, 2019. It does not appear to be final as a few turn times are unrealistic.

Arrival time, city, equipment, departure time; relative to OKC. If there are two cities, it comes from one, and turns to the other. E.G. PHX-OKC-DFW
---- DFW S80 0510
---- ORD CR7 0540
---- PHX CR9 0555
---- PHL E75 0600
---- LAX E75 0620
---- DCA E75 0655
---- DFW 738 0700
---- CLT CR9 0705
0801 DFW 319 0835
0951 DFW S80 1032
1025 PHL E75 1055
1134 DFW S80 1219
1150 ORD CR7 1220
1250 CLT CR9 1325
1344 DFW E75 1425
1428 LAX E75 1505
1517 DFW CR9 PHX 1550
1522 ORD CR7 1600
1623 PHX CR9 DFW 1653
1731 DFW 738 1820
1840 ORD CR7 ----
1932 DFW S80 2020
1955 CLT CR9 ----
2020 DCA E75 ----
2158 DFW 738 ----
2258 PHX CR9 ----
2320 PHL E75 ----
2321 DFW S80 ----
2345 LAX E75 ----

Interesting: Charleston SC is getting a seasonal British Airways non-stop to LHR, twice weekly. Looking at the data, it looks like Charleston's passenger numbers are nearly identical to OKC. Too bad we don't already have the expansion built.

https://www.postandcourier.com/news/charleston-airport-to-launch-nonstop-flights-to-london/article_4edaa636-c009-11e8-b80c-27f9947a444b.html

Interesting: Charleston SC is getting a seasonal British Airways non-stop to LHR, twice weekly. Looking at the data, it looks like Charleston's passenger numbers are nearly identical to OKC. Too bad we don't already have the expansion built.

https://www.postandcourier.com/news/charleston-airport-to-launch-nonstop-flights-to-london/article_4edaa636-c009-11e8-b80c-27f9947a444b.html

It's all about touristic draw with CHS, though. We might have similar numbers, but Charleston is a pretty big leisure destination in the southeast. And, as always, DFW is just so close...relatively speaking.

Makes me wonder if OKC even tries for international flights...

Makes me wonder if OKC even tries for international flights...

At the moment, probably not, considering we don't have the facilities to accept international flights right now.

It's all about touristic draw with CHS, though. We might have similar numbers, but Charleston is a pretty big leisure destination in the southeast. And, as always, DFW is just so close...relatively speaking.OKC's passenger numbers are nearly identical. So, whatever their numbers are: leisure, business, manufacturing-- they add up to equal the same as OKC.

A couple things:

1) Charleston is closer: less fuel; lower crew costs; less aircraft time = lower risk, lower break even.

2) British Airways is targeting London point of sale traffic; as mentioned the US South is a tourist draw for Europeans.

3) Passenger numbers may be similar, but passenger type is not. A leisure dominated route can thrive on 2x weekly, where OKC is a steadier mix of business and US POS leisure traffic. A flight twice a week would not be competitive enough for business traffic. If you have to be in London at 4pm tomorrow, you simply cannot wait 3-4 days for a nonstop flight. You will connect or drive to DFW.

4) American Airlines and British Airways have a transatlantic metal neutral joint venture. This means that any flights between Europe and the United States on either American or BA are part of this joint venture. The airplanes are neutral, and the profit from each flight is divided up between the two carriers. In order for the AA/BA JV to launch OKC-LHR, they will have to make a decision to overfly 3 hubs (PHL,ORD,CLT) in order to do so, whereas Charleston really only overflies one (PHL). Airlines much rather you go to a hub, and in order for an airline to overfly a hub, they have to be very sure that the nonstop will command a fare premium. This means that people will pay more to not connect or drive to DFW. The OKC market has very poor evidence of people even paying a premium to fly nonstop from OKC to domestic markets, choosing to drive to DFW or connect for cheaper instead. Why would we assume people will suddenly pay more for this flight, versus connecting or driving; just as they do now?

https://i.gyazo.com/d766017bb43a1271344defc82eff2819.png

Well that should end that discussion. If you want to argue with catch it’s just cause you want to argue. He’s pretty much dead on there.

Well that should end that discussion. If you want to argue with catch it’s just cause you want to argue. He’s pretty much dead on there.

Yep, well put and illustrated!

A couple things:

1) Charleston is closer: less fuel; lower crew costs; less aircraft time = lower risk, lower break even.

2) British Airways is targeting London point of sale traffic; as mentioned the US South is a tourist draw for Europeans.

3) Passenger numbers may be similar, but passenger type is not. A leisure dominated route can thrive on 2x weekly, where OKC is a steadier mix of business and US POS leisure traffic. A flight twice a week would not be competitive enough for business traffic. If you have to be in London at 4pm tomorrow, you simply cannot wait 3-4 days for a nonstop flight. You will connect or drive to DFW.

4) American Airlines and British Airways have a transatlantic metal neutral joint venture. This means that any flights between Europe and the United States on either American or BA are part of this joint venture. The airplanes are neutral, and the profit from each flight is divided up between the two carriers. In order for the AA/BA JV to launch OKC-LHR, they will have to make a decision to overfly 3 hubs (PHL,ORD,CLT) in order to do so, whereas Charleston really only overflies one (PHL). Airlines much rather you go to a hub, and in order for an airline to overfly a hub, they have to be very sure that the nonstop will command a fare premium. This means that people will pay more to not connect or drive to DFW. The OKC market has very poor evidence of people even paying a premium to fly nonstop from OKC to domestic markets, choosing to drive to DFW or connect for cheaper instead. Why would we assume people will suddenly pay more for this flight, versus connecting or driving; just as they do now?

https://i.gyazo.com/d766017bb43a1271344defc82eff2819.png

Isn't perception reality? OKC will never be seen as big league without an international flight. It's the only NBA market without an international flight. Not saying we need 5, but a flight like this would put the US on notice. Just my opinion, and I respect all of the points you made.

Isn't perception reality? OKC will never be seen as big league without an international flight. It's the only NBA market without an international flight. Not saying we need 5, but a flight like this would put the US on notice. Just my opinion, and I respect all of the points you made.

MKE is one of the smallest NBA markets and it just has YYZ and a bunch of Mexico service, most of it leisure for those cold Wisconsin winters, but certainly we should strive for Canada and Mexico service, too. See, MKE suffers from market drain to ORD for long haul int'l service, just like us and DFW. Would Canada and Mexico flights count for you to be "big league?" I think those are within reach. NOLA, the smallest NBA market, has a huge touristic draw, so it's hard to compare us with them.

MKE is one of the smallest NBA markets and it just has YYZ and a bunch of Mexico service, most of it leisure for those cold Wisconsin winters, but certainly we should strive for Canada and Mexico service, too. See, MKE suffers from market drain to ORD for long haul int'l service, just like us and DFW. Would Canada and Mexico flights count for you to be "big league?" I think those are within reach. NOLA, the smallest NBA market, has a huge touristic draw, so it's hard to compare us with them.

True. But I wasn't really fully looking at size. If OKC could get a flight to Mexico, that would be huge. Heck, Toronto may be doable. But I think OKC could support an international flight. But I get what you are saying.

Wouldn't it be more valuable to the well being of the airport and the metro to be a hub versus international?

Wouldn't it be more valuable to the well being of the airport and the metro to be a hub versus international?

Maybe we can be a big Navy port too ?

Seriously, the hub is a dying breed and to be realistic, there are not enough inhabitants in the whole state to justify one. Furthermore with a huge metropolis and world hub just 3 hours away, it would not make sense. But again OKC is just too small for a big airport.

Enjoy the one here. It is very convenient and we are adding more direct flight so use them people !

MKE is one of the smallest NBA markets and it just has YYZ and a bunch of Mexico service, most of it leisure for those cold Wisconsin winters, but certainly we should strive for Canada and Mexico service, too. See, MKE suffers from market drain to ORD for long haul int'l service, just like us and DFW. Would Canada and Mexico flights count for you to be "big league?" I think those are within reach. NOLA, the smallest NBA market, has a huge touristic draw, so it's hard to compare us with them.

MKE has double the passenger traffic that OKC has... January - August 2018, it was at 6.2 million. OKC, January - September, is 3.2 million.

Maybe we can be a big Navy port too ?

Seriously, the hub is a dying breed and to be realistic, there are not enough inhabitants in the whole state to justify one. Furthermore with a huge metropolis and world hub just 3 hours away, it would not make sense. But again OKC is just too small for a big airport.

Enjoy the one here. It is very convenient and we are adding more direct flight so use them people !

Well put and reasonable. A hub is likely out of the question for the near term, but hopes of starting out with int'l flights to Canada and Mexico are good and realistic goals for the time being. The dynamics of the business and of the area/state will also have to change dramatically for us to compete with DFW operationally. Might happen, but likely WAY, WAY down the line.

MKE has double the passenger traffic that OKC has... January - August 2018, it was at 6.2 million. OKC, January - September, is 3.2 million.

Wow, that's interesting--and a bit surprising to me. Wisconsin population is 5.7 million where OK's is almost 4 million. Milwaukee metro has pop. of 1.5 million, OKC has 1.3 million. Perhaps just sheer people accounts for it and perhaps MKE has a bigger economy or at least more business flyers. That's a LOT more traffic though--big difference.

Are all of these passenger counts commercial carriers only or does it factor in the private air travel in and out of OKC airports? It would be interesting to see how much private/charter passengers we have compared to other cities in our size range.

Commercial only at Will Rogers.

Wow, that's interesting--and a bit surprising to me. Wisconsin population is 5.7 million where OK's is almost 4 million. Milwaukee metro has pop. of 1.5 million, OKC has 1.3 million. Perhaps just sheer people accounts for it and perhaps MKE has a bigger economy or at least more business flyers. That's a LOT more traffic though--big difference.

Basically, Milwaukee is the only game in Wisconsin. OKC competes with Tulsa.

Basically, Milwaukee is the only game in Wisconsin. OKC competes with Tulsa.

They also get a bunch of bleed over traffic from Chicago. You live in north Chicago it’s about the same to get to either

Basically, Milwaukee is the only game in Wisconsin. OKC competes with Tulsa.

also MKE gets lots of pax from the Chicago area. Northern Chicago metro (which actually extends into Wisconsin) is less than 30 miles to MKE, closer than it is to ORD actually and definitely supports International that MKE has to offer. ..

Basically, Milwaukee is the only game in Wisconsin. OKC competes with Tulsa.

And DFW for international flights. I know several people who make the drive down there for nonstop flights to Mexico and Europe.

I'll never understand the driving down to/back up from DFW part, even for international service. It's a breeze to fly out of WRA and connect to an international flight. Connecting at DFW itself has also become easy ever since it had the Skylink in service.

Parking at DFW anywhere close-in is steep as well. I guess when gas goes back up to the $4-$5 range (which it will in the future at some point) driving down there will not seem as attractive.

I'll never understand the driving down to/back up from DFW part, even for international service. It's a breeze to fly out of WRA and connect to an international flight. Connecting at DFW itself has also become easy ever since it had the Skylink in service.

Parking at DFW anywhere close-in is steep as well. I guess when gas goes back up to the $4-$5 range (which it will in the future at some point) driving down there will not seem as attractive.

The same people that drive down there to save $250 on a fare, are the same ones that complain about not having international service. Part of the reason we don't have international is because we're perceived as a cheap market (based on what catch said). The whole thing is really quite funny

The few times I’ve looked, the fare difference hasn’t been that much.

I've driven to DFW for international flights because there have been some amazing savings. But I've left from here for international flights and had equally pleasant experiences. I'd leave from here more if the options were better for connections.

only time i have driving to DFW for a flight is because it left very early in the morning from DFW, and there wasn't a connecting flight from OKC to DFW that would have gotten me there on time, unless i left the night before. but i almost always just from the here to DFW for those flights

The same people that drive down there to save $250 on a fare, are the same ones that complain about not having international service. Part of the reason we don't have international is because we're perceived as a cheap market (based on what catch said). The whole thing is really quite funny

Saving $250 on one ticket is one thing, but saving it per ticket for a family of 4 more than justifies a drive down. Also, being practical, I'll never complain about a lack of international service from WRWA because I know the financial needs for the airlines to make it profitable.

Saving $250 on one ticket is one thing, but saving it per ticket for a family of 4 more than justifies a drive down. Also, being practical, I'll never complain about a lack of international service from WRWA because I know the financial needs for the airlines to make it practical.

Yes! Exactly this. We just got back from Mexico this week. We drove down to DFW to catch our flight because of how much it would have cost us to fly out of OKC as a family of 5. Another reason we chose to drive to DFW is because it was a direct 2 1/2 hour flight from DFW to GDL, and we have a 3 year-old that we did not want to subject others to on one or multiple connecting flights. Her being just on the one direct flight was enough! :p With that said, when she gets older, we will look into departing from OKC if the price justifies it.

The same people that drive down there to save $250 on a fare, are the same ones that complain about not having international service. Part of the reason we don't have international is because we're perceived as a cheap market (based on what catch said). The whole thing is really quite funnyThe only time I've driven to DFW for flights have been for AA European flights that I have used miles. From OKC I could not have used the "cheap" miles (for business seats), but from DFW I could (only AA knows why availability was like that). Or from OKC I would have had to connect twice to get to my European destination, but from DFW, I only had to connect once. I am typically very flexible on dates when I book-- usually looking at most dates within a month or two.

My goal in using AA miles is to try to get the cheap mile tickets and fewest connections. And I virtually only use them for tickets to Europe and Hawaii. Now that DFW has flights to KOA on the big island (opening up more of Hawaii), and OKC has flights to PHL, there is LESSER chance that I'll have to drive DFW to use the cheap miles. Sometimes using the miles at the more expensive level is unavoidable, though, and then I might as well choose OKC for convenience. Sometimes if the price is right I just buy the tickets, though. Maybe some day we will have a BA non-stop to LHR. AUS has one. We just need to triple our passenger count I guess!!

But...for domestic flights (and close international)...to save a few hundred dollars...I just don't see the point in driving to DFW. It is so much easier to get through OKC. Plus you don't have to worry about DFW traffic. You can get a lot of places non-stop and virtually anywhere domestic one-stop.

United will reduce service to ORD in March from 4 flights to 3 flights a day. Also, Frontier is significantly reducing service to Austin and San Antonio early next year. Frontier flights for OKC are staying put (for now)

The only time I've driven to DFW for flights have been for AA European flights that I have used miles. From OKC I could not have used the "cheap" miles (for business seats), but from DFW I could (only AA knows why availability was like that). Or from OKC I would have had to connect twice to get to my European destination, but from DFW, I only had to connect once. I am typically very flexible on dates when I book-- usually looking at most dates within a month or two.

My goal in using AA miles is to try to get the cheap mile tickets and fewest connections. And I virtually only use them for tickets to Europe and Hawaii. Now that DFW has flights to KOA on the big island (opening up more of Hawaii), and OKC has flights to PHL, there is LESSER chance that I'll have to drive DFW to use the cheap miles. Sometimes using the miles at the more expensive level is unavoidable, though, and then I might as well choose OKC for convenience. Sometimes if the price is right I just buy the tickets, though. Maybe some day we will have a BA non-stop to LHR. AUS has one. We just need to triple our passenger count I guess!!

But...for domestic flights (and close international)...to save a few hundred dollars...I just don't see the point in driving to DFW. It is so much easier to get through OKC. Plus you don't have to worry about DFW traffic. You can get a lot of places non-stop and virtually anywhere domestic one-stop.

Next time - if there's award availability ex-DFW but none for the OKC-DFW segment, you can call AA and book a revenue ticket OKC-DFW and an award ticket DFW-XXX into one PNR (which enables through check-in and baggage check). OKC-DFW can be had for cheap if bought in advance. You might have to call 5 times to find an agent who actually knows how to do this though. But this has been a lifesaver for us multiple times, especially since AA no longer through-checks bags on separate tickets (even AA-AA).

The same people that drive down there to save $250 on a fare, are the same ones that complain about not having international service. Part of the reason we don't have international is because we're perceived as a cheap market (based on what catch said). The whole thing is really quite funny

Yup. Plus I hate to say it but unlike AUS, OKC attracts pretty no tourism. BA from OKC to LHR? Hahaha that's a good one.

I wonder if the person who posts WRWA statistics is on vacation, it looks like for quite a while they have come out on the last day of the month but Octobers has yet to be released

Couple More days, Catch is pretty good about it. Sept numbers weren't on here until about the 10th

Usually between the 10th and the 15th of the following month.

The airlines have to reconcile their numbers systemwide and close out any open tickets and fix any errors. This data doesn’t make it down to the station (city) level until about 7 days in to the month. The airline then submits to the city and they have to compile it into their report for us to gawk at.

I wonder if the person who posts WRWA statistics is on vacation, it looks like for quite a while they have come out on the last day of the month but Octobers has yet to be released

That date you're seeing isn't the day they release them. Usually pops up between 10-15th.

In April, United will reduce ORD-OKC service by 1 flight (from 4 to 3) but in May, United will increase DEN-OKC service by 1 flight from 4 to 5.

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/News/October2018Enplanement.pdf

October up

Rumor in the industry is that Via has lost (or surrendered) their airline operating certificate. Showing all flights cancelled today.