This is all you need:

https://www.fanniemae.com/content/eligibility_information/eligibility-matrix.pdf

Page 4: Maximum DTI is 36% for a less qualified individual.

$80,000/12 = ~$6,700/month * 36% = $2,412/month

So if principal+escrow = $1,800/month, you can still have $600/month in other debt.

This assumes your take home pay is 80,000. Which probably means your Gross income is over $100k.

If you feel comfortable at 36% DTI, go for it. I don't know many people who would do that. This is what I think people mean when they say affordability. Of course, lenders will lend more than you can comfortably afford.

I am more comfortable with 25% or less of take home pay.

I am more comfortable with 25% or less of take home pay.

I would assume that is most people's stance here in OKC. That's a pretty neutral number and the same one I use.

Okay so the argument began as "how can one afford to live downtown with a normal salary". And has now shifted to how can you, personally, afford to live downtown at a comfort level that is much safer than many others.

The fact is most banks will give you a loan for anywhere from 36% and lower debt-to-income ratio. And this is made even easier when you have a 20% down payment.

Your personal comfort level is well below what banks will allow you to afford, so the broad speculation based on your own wants is not really applicable to the rest of the city's residents.

I think you need to get with some lenders, because it sounds like you are not only qualified, but more than qualified to afford some downtown properties.

This assumes your take home pay is 80,000. Which probably means your Gross income is over $100k.

Lenders don't use take home pay. They use gross.

I'm not saying people should shoot for 36%, but the question is whether or not a bank would do it.

There is no magic number because some people have high cost prescriptions, some people have a substantial savings, some people have guaranteed pensions, some people have access to tribal healthcare, some people have more than 2 mouths to feed, some people have non-home debt at a 4% APR and some at 24% APR, some people can live with paying roommates, some can't. 25%, 36%, 45% DTI mean literally nothing to whether or not something is affordable. Everyone's costs are very individual.

This facility is on the architecture tour this year:

https://aiacoc.org/?p=5749

These are now live. All between $375-$400/ft

^

The reality of "affordable" downtown housing.

That's just what it costs.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/641-NW-4th-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-73102/2079901087_zpid/?

I'm sorry, but I don't think these are that impressive at this price point. I get the cost associated with building this type of project downtown and that's already been discussed. I'd just want more if I were spending $800,000+. I say that knowing this type of project should appeal to me. I really like modern and urban design and don't mind minimalism when done right. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I just feel like something's missing from these.

These are marketed as luxury. Everything built downtown is marketed as luxury. Wheeler advertises high-end everything. For-sale could be way more affordable but the developers all choose this market to make more money. It makes sense from a business perspective, but I hate the excuse that it's just what it costs to build in the core. Absolutely untrue.

These are marketed as luxury. Everything built downtown is marketed as luxury. Wheeler advertises high-end everything. For-sale could be way more affordable but the developers all choose this market to make more money. It makes sense from a business perspective, but I hate the excuse that it's just what it costs to build in the core. Absolutely untrue.

I think you're right. I guess I just don't see what's so luxurious about these.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/641-NW-4th-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-73102/2079901087_zpid/?

I'm sorry, but I don't think these are that impressive at this price point. I get the cost associated with building this type of project downtown and that's already been discussed. I'd just want more if I were spending $800,000+. I say that knowing this type of project should appeal to me. I really like modern and urban design and don't mind minimalism when done right. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I just feel like something's missing from these.

Is it that you can afford $400/FT^2 and you want more amenities? Since you are the target audience would this unit be interesting to you at $200/FT^2? 300 FT^2?

As long as people are willing to buy property at $400/FT^2, people will sell it at that price. There's no point in gritching about it. It's the free market and what/not.

As long as people are willing to buy property at $400/FT^2, people will sell it at that price. There's no point in gritching about it. It's the free market and what/not.

But there has not been a proven market for condos at that price.

It took 701 Hudson years to sell 9 units (one is still unsold) and they had to reduce their prices to get buyers; all the units but the penthouse with a huge outdoor patio sold for well less than $400 PSF and all those units had a ton of custom woodwork.

It's a valid question as to whether these units are worth their asking price and if anyone is going to pay those rates.

As of yet, none of the units have been sold.

I realize we all have our own tastes, but every time I see these I immediately think "Public Housing project with balconies".

I wasn’t trying to spark another discussion about whether downtown can support this price point. The market will answer that question. I like when developers push the envelope. This one popped up in my inbox this morning and, at $400/sq., I’m just underwhelmed. I agree with Pete, 701 Hudson is the type of design I’d expect for that kind of money. Perhaps The Elliot or Villa Teresa will get there too (I hope so…both look promising). Those are the developments that are The Bower’s competition.

I was hoping these would be a bit less than what they are asking. I just don't see myself paying that kind of money for OKC.

But there has not been a proven market for condos at that price.

It took 701 Hudson years to sell 9 units (one is still unsold) and they had to reduce their prices to get buyers; all the units but the penthouse with a huge outdoor patio sold for well less than $400 PSF and all those units had a ton of custom woodwork.

It's a valid question as to whether these units are worth their asking price and if anyone is going to pay those rates.

As of yet, none of the units have been sold.

I believe the condos over by the Harkins theater sold for around that price--very quickly. I've watched most of these structures go up and I'm not thinking buyers would be getting what they paid for at $400. Most (all?) of these are wood-frame, and while they have some nice cosmetic effects, they appear to be built to about the same standards as all of these urban apartment complexes. A lot of these developers are attempting to sell at Dallas prices.

Isn't the asking price for the condos tower across from Villa Teresa ~$800/sq ft?

It was predictable long ago that there are a finite number of buyers in this market who want to be downtown no matter the cost--and that they probably accepted that their resale value would not exceed their purchase price. Once the inventory of those buyers was drained, what then? I think we're seeing the what then.

I believe the condos over by the Harkins theater sold for around that price--very quickly. I've watched most of these structures go up and I'm not thinking buyers would be getting what they paid for at $400. Most (all?) of these are wood-frame, and while they have some nice cosmetic effects, they appear to be built to about the same standards as all of these urban apartment complexes. A lot of these developers are attempting to sell at Dallas prices.

Isn't the asking price for the condos tower across from Villa Teresa ~$800/sq ft?

The Centennial Condos all sold for under $300 PSF.

The Elliott has been asking around $400 PSF and can't sell any units, which is why it hasn't broken ground.

There were several other projects (Cirrus, Broadway Condos) that tried to pre-sell at $400 PSF and couldn't get off the ground and have since been scrapped. Left Frame Lofts stopped in mid-construction because it could not sell at the high prices it was asking.

^ also, when the Centennial first came online, they sold out quickly for corporate housing to the CHK, Continental, and Devons of the world. They all got hammered when they sold again years later.

To be fair I did sell a unit in the Centennial a few years ago for $328/ft :) A unit overlooking the canal sold off market for around $375/ft during that time too. Curious about now though.

^

Those sales were in the secondary market, not from the developer.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower093020a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower093020b.jpg

Pretty sure only one has sold and that was back in early summer.

Well, I appreciate that they actually have some decent sized balconies for once.

There was an open house on Thursday, they gave tours of the largest (3BR townhome) and smallest (1BR condo). Really liked the units. Really want one. $400/sf is just... well, you know...

I wouldn't be surprised if they went to rental at some point.

Forgot to mention the HOA fee was $350/mo on the 1BR.

That HOA is insane considering the small number of amenities (zero?). I am sure the HOA scales to each unit's square footage, but not even having a pool makes the $350 one laughable.

This project is now offering a for-rent option:

https://www.apartments.com/the-bower-oklahoma-city-ok/rx0g3z2/


Still for sale as well although it looks like they've only had one buyer.