Pete
11-08-2018, 07:39 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower110418a.jpg
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower110418b.jpg
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View Full Version : The Bower Pete 11-08-2018, 07:39 AM http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower110418a.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower110418b.jpg Pete 11-19-2018, 09:33 AM http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower111718.jpg Pete 12-18-2018, 11:28 AM http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower121618.jpg shawnw 12-18-2018, 01:10 PM Amazing speed. Wish they were two stories taller. Why were they allowed to be so short? Thought there were height requirements? Ross MacLochness 12-18-2018, 01:33 PM ^^^ the midrise portion behind will be 4 or 5 stories iirc Pete 12-18-2018, 01:34 PM Amazing speed. Wish they were two stories taller. Why were they allowed to be so short? Thought there were height requirements? That's just the front row along 4th. There is a second row with a first level of parking then 3 levels above that. It's being built now, just moving more slowly due to the foundation work needed for the higher structure. The cool thing is that all the units will have nice views due to this configuration. shawnw 12-18-2018, 02:29 PM ah cool Pete 12-19-2018, 02:41 PM This rendering shows how the 2nd row on the north half of the property will stand over the row that is right along 4th. The ground level parking structure is mostly complete and the first level of housing is framed. http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower10.jpg shawnw 12-19-2018, 03:38 PM I think I was recollecting this in reverse, with the taller units up against the street Pete 01-01-2019, 08:41 AM http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower123118a.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower123118b.jpg soonerguru 01-01-2019, 12:27 PM Amazing we have seen so much infill development and yet, so many empty parcels remain. This is a good problem to have for our city. warreng88 01-02-2019, 10:47 AM I think I was recollecting this in reverse, with the taller units up against the street Me too. I would have preferred a taller structure fronting 4th, but if you think about it, the layout makes sense. If it were in reverse, the units facing north wouldn't have a view of downtown as they would be blocked by the larger, four story structure. HOT ROD 01-06-2019, 08:49 PM oh well, that's the cost/risk of being downtown. Nobody's 'view' should be protected, if they want to keep their view then then they should tear down and build taller. shawnw 01-07-2019, 10:43 AM I made a point to drive down 4th today and it looks pretty good with the heights of the neighboring building and it's right up to the sidewalk. hoya 01-07-2019, 10:48 AM oh well, that's the cost/risk of being downtown. Nobody's 'view' should be protected, if they want to keep their view then then they should tear down and build taller. Sure, but it's dumb to block your own view, which is what they'd be doing here. Pete 02-12-2019, 07:37 AM http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower021019.jpg Pete 03-27-2019, 06:37 AM http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower032619a.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower032619b.jpg Pete 05-05-2019, 08:33 AM http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower050419a.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower050419b.jpg Pete 07-08-2019, 07:37 AM http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower070619a.jpg Pete 12-03-2019, 02:38 PM http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower120319a.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower120319b.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower120319c.jpg Rover 12-03-2019, 03:51 PM Hard to get too excited about the aesthetics of this project. It's nice infill, but totally forgettable. HangryHippo 12-03-2019, 04:05 PM Hard to get too excited about the aesthetics of this project. It's nice infill, but totally forgettable.Drove by and it's actually a little depressing in person. chuck5815 12-03-2019, 04:12 PM I don't typically recommend the application of coatings on new brick, but a lime wash would go a long way towards improving the aesthetics here. Pete 12-03-2019, 04:13 PM I still haven't seen any marketing or pricing. I noticed the units facing the street are virtually finished inside. Pete 12-12-2019, 06:42 AM The units facing the street are 98% finished and have a back patio. At least one model looks like it could open any day. http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower120819a.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower120819b.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower120819c.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower120819e.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bower120819f.jpg shawnw 12-12-2019, 07:27 AM I thought I had seen lights and TVs on like people were already living there? Pete 12-12-2019, 07:28 AM I thought I had seen lights and TVs on like people were already living there? Don't think so. Probably just the model(s). PaddyShack 12-12-2019, 10:48 AM Are these rentals or for sale? Pete 12-12-2019, 11:23 AM Are these rentals or for sale? For sale but prices haven't been released yet. Timtoomany 01-22-2020, 10:52 AM I want one! https://thebowerokc.com/ Pete 01-22-2020, 11:01 AM Listed pricing is from $372,000 to $835,000 with per SF cost of just under $400 across the board. onthestrip 01-22-2020, 11:02 AM Interesting that the smaller units are actually priced lower per square foot than the bigger units. But at $375-400/sf, best of luck selling them. OkiePoke 01-22-2020, 11:07 AM I still feel it is a mistake offering town homes without enclosed garages. Pete 01-22-2020, 11:09 AM I still feel it is a mistake offering town homes without enclosed garages. Some of the units have private, attached garages but most do not. dankrutka 01-22-2020, 11:42 AM I still feel it is a mistake offering town homes without enclosed garages. It may be a market mistake, but I am surprised how much this matters to people (assuming it does). Of course, I haven't owned a car in a couple years so I'm not at all typical, but I never saw a downside to parking on the street in an urban area. Pete 01-22-2020, 11:47 AM All the units have covered parking. Some of the townhouses facing the street have private garages. Anonymous. 01-22-2020, 12:07 PM It may be a market mistake, but I am surprised how much this matters to people (assuming it does). Of course, I haven't owned a car in a couple years so I'm not at all typical, but I never saw a downside to parking on the street in an urban area. Cars in OKC are more valuable than most places. Protecting that car and preferring comfort from weather due to usage amounts, is the reason it is so important here. Also throw in the fact, a lot of people use a garage for storage of many things. Which storage is very valuable when considering smaller square footages downtown. PaddyShack 01-22-2020, 01:06 PM I just don't see how one could ever live downtown on a normal salary... At least not in the current for sale units. jedicurt 01-22-2020, 01:09 PM I just don't see how one could ever live downtown on a normal salary... At least not in the current for sale units. well most i know rent. and define "normal salary"... because i have no idea what range that is. Anonymous. 01-22-2020, 01:13 PM I just don't see how one could ever live downtown on a normal salary... At least not in the current for sale units. Median salary in OKC is about 47K. A single person with that income, downtown owning is virtually impossible without unique circumstances - and even then it would be in the lower value buildings like Maywood Lofts or Central Avenue Villas. Add in significant other or being open to roomates, your options downtown begin to become much more legit. PaddyShack 01-22-2020, 01:24 PM well most i know rent. and define "normal salary"... because i have no idea what range that is. It seems to me that if one was to not over purchase, meaning you put 20% down and make sure your mortgage payment is not more than 25% of take home pay, one would need to make over $130k for the cheapest place at the Bower. Now you say most rent, well when I look at places for rent, most of those are the same monthly payment as purchasing would, the only difference is that 20% down payment. When I think of normal salaries for Oklahoma, I think of $75k on average, or really stuff below $100k. Now my opinion could be off, and I might actually be underemployed if others say the normal salary is above $100k. We could sell our current home and have enough for the down payment, but I still don't make enough to afford the monthly payment whether we rent or own. Unless there are a plethora of jobs downtown that pay north of $130k that I just don't know about, I don't see us ever moving downtown. All of this to say we would have to squeeze into a 1bd/1ba when there are 3 of us currently with a 4th in the works. jedicurt 01-22-2020, 01:25 PM Median salary in OKC is about 47K. A single person with that income, downtown owning is virtually impossible without unique circumstances - and even then it would be in the lower value buildings like Maywood Lofts or Central Avenue Villas. Add in significant other or being open to roomates, your options downtown begin to become much more legit. yes. but my question is this. in what downtown can you afford to own, if you only make the average income? my thought would be none... i don't think that is whom they are trying to cater to, in any major city. that is why you have options to rent and options to own. Canoe 01-22-2020, 01:40 PM It seems to me that if one was to not over purchase, meaning you put 20% down and make sure your mortgage payment is not more than 25% of take home pay, one would need to make over $130k for the cheapest place at the Bower. Now you say most rent, well when I look at places for rent, most of those are the same monthly payment as purchasing would, the only difference is that 20% down payment. When I think of normal salaries for Oklahoma, I think of $75k on average, or really stuff below $100k. Now my opinion could be off, and I might actually be underemployed if others say the normal salary is above $100k. We could sell our current home and have enough for the down payment, but I still don't make enough to afford the monthly payment whether we rent or own. Unless there are a plethora of jobs downtown that pay north of $130k that I just don't know about, I don't see us ever moving downtown. All of this to say we would have to squeeze into a 1bd/1ba when there are 3 of us currently with a 4th in the works. Please tell me you ideal situation. Like size of the unit given the average pay and down payment. I am interested in having families live in downtown OKC and I would like to have an outside opinion. Anonymous. 01-22-2020, 02:09 PM yes. but my question is this. in what downtown can you afford to own, if you only make the average income? my thought would be none... i don't think that is whom they are trying to cater to, in any major city. that is why you have options to rent and options to own. The two properties I mentioned in that post. There is a unit for sale in Maywood for just under 300K that is nearly 1200 sq ft - 2 bed/2 bath, with 2 underground parking spots, and a storage unit. Two people collectively making even $80K should be able to afford that payment. Anonymous. 01-22-2020, 02:11 PM It seems to me that if one was to not over purchase, meaning you put 20% down and make sure your mortgage payment is not more than 25% of take home pay, one would need to make over $130k for the cheapest place at the Bower. Now you say most rent, well when I look at places for rent, most of those are the same monthly payment as purchasing would, the only difference is that 20% down payment. When I think of normal salaries for Oklahoma, I think of $75k on average, or really stuff below $100k. Now my opinion could be off, and I might actually be underemployed if others say the normal salary is above $100k. We could sell our current home and have enough for the down payment, but I still don't make enough to afford the monthly payment whether we rent or own. Unless there are a plethora of jobs downtown that pay north of $130k that I just don't know about, I don't see us ever moving downtown. All of this to say we would have to squeeze into a 1bd/1ba when there are 3 of us currently with a 4th in the works. You are basing this off of your thinking of a normal OKC salary being 75K? Dude more than half of the city would kill to make that much. The median income in OKC is only $47K. Edmond Hausfrau 01-22-2020, 02:27 PM You are basing this off of your thinking of a normal OKC salary being 75K? Dude more than half of the city would kill to make that much. The median income in OKC is only $47K. If the median is 47K, then half of the city would kill to make that much, since the median is the halfway point. US Bureau of Labor statistics for OKC metro area for 2018 report the average hourly wage is $22.65. This is 9% below the national average. AP 01-22-2020, 03:02 PM The two properties I mentioned in that post. There is a unit for sale in Maywood for just under 300K that is nearly 1200 sq ft - 2 bed/2 bath, with 2 underground parking spots, and a storage unit. Two people collectively making even $80K should be able to afford that payment. Wait, are you saying a family with a household income of 80K could afford a 300K house? PaddyShack 01-22-2020, 03:03 PM Wait, are you saying a family with a household income of 80K could afford a 300K house? This could be of the opinion of actually could afford versus what the bank will lend... PaddyShack 01-22-2020, 03:04 PM You are basing this off of your thinking of a normal OKC salary being 75K? Dude more than half of the city would kill to make that much. The median income in OKC is only $47K. I am mainly thinking of the middle class people who want to live downtown when they are young. Which at the price points currently available, I just don't see it happening. PaddyShack 01-22-2020, 03:07 PM Please tell me you ideal situation. Like size of the unit given the average pay and down payment. I am interested in having families live in downtown OKC and I would like to have an outside opinion. Honestly for our family we would love to have 3bedrooms, but could make 2 work. I think if there were decent options available below $300/sqft then we could see movement. As for renting, I just don't see the point of paying more in rent then what I would pay in ownership. But that is just my feelings towards renting. Unless those rentals are all inclusive and I wouldn't have to pay more for the extras and utilities on top of the $2,000+ monthly payments. Anonymous. 01-22-2020, 03:23 PM Wait, are you saying a family with a household income of 80K could afford a 300K house? Yes. The guy I am quoting is even saying he could have a down payment by selling current house. Unless the guy has outstanding monthly debts that is unique to him, then 80K can easily get a 300K house in OKC. Remember, everyone's situation is different. Someone could have a $600 a month car payment and/or loan payment that could sink them in getting a mortgage. Banks in 2020 care more about debt to income ratio than they do anything else. Canoe 01-22-2020, 03:40 PM Honestly for our family we would love to have 3bedrooms, but could make 2 work. I think if there were decent options available below $300/sqft then we could see movement. So you would pay say $575,000 for a 3 bed 2 bath 2000 square foot condo? AP 01-22-2020, 04:23 PM Yes. The guy I am quoting is even saying he could have a down payment by selling current house. Unless the guy has outstanding monthly debts that is unique to him, then 80K can easily get a 300K house in OKC. Remember, everyone's situation is different. Someone could have a $600 a month car payment and/or loan payment that could sink them in getting a mortgage. Banks in 2020 care more about debt to income ratio than they do anything else. I know what banks look for. I work in financial services. The MAX most personal finance experts recommend is 3 times annual pay. It would be insane to stretch yourself further than that. jedicurt 01-22-2020, 04:35 PM I know what banks look for. I work in financial services. The MAX most personal finance experts recommend is 3 times annual pay. It would be insane to stretch yourself further than that. ok. so how to people live in Denver, where the average medium income is 68k, and the average home price is 465k? and saying the suburbs gets you to 353k, assuming you make that average 68k and not the average 52k of most of the suburbs. and i'm not questioning you. i'm honestly asking. because then that means the average person in the denver area doesn't buy, but homes are being bought all the time there. this isn't my area of expertise, just trying to understand Anonymous. 01-22-2020, 04:58 PM I know what banks look for. I work in financial services. The MAX most personal finance experts recommend is 3 times annual pay. It would be insane to stretch yourself further than that. I bet you couldn't find a bank in OKC that declines a mortgage to someone who makes $80K with a 20% down payment for a $300K house. That is borrowing just 240K. Like I said, unless that poster has oustanding debts that occur every month, then he should be able to afford a home downtown if he fits the other criteria he has mentioned. Teo9969 01-22-2020, 08:55 PM This is all you need: https://www.fanniemae.com/content/eligibility_information/eligibility-matrix.pdf Page 4: Maximum DTI is 36% for a less qualified individual. $80,000/12 = ~$6,700/month * 36% = $2,412/month So if principal+escrow = $1,800/month, you can still have $600/month in other debt. OkiePoke 01-22-2020, 09:32 PM 2 bed, 2 bath, (maybe 3 bed or small office), 1500 sq ft, 2 car garage, amenities nearby, for under 300k. I don't care about a yard. OkiePoke 01-23-2020, 08:30 AM Basically what is on 27th and McKinley, but with a 2 car garage. AP 01-23-2020, 08:46 AM If you feel comfortable at 36% DTI, go for it. I don't know many people who would do that. This is what I think people mean when they say affordability. Of course, lenders will lend more than you can comfortably afford. AP 01-23-2020, 08:49 AM ok. so how to people live in Denver, where the average medium income is 68k, and the average home price is 465k? and saying the suburbs gets you to 353k, assuming you make that average 68k and not the average 52k of most of the suburbs. and i'm not questioning you. i'm honestly asking. because then that means the average person in the denver area doesn't buy, but homes are being bought all the time there. this isn't my area of expertise, just trying to understand I think you are under the assumption that the median household income families are the ones buying the median-priced houses. I don't believe that is the case. |