Is there another thread with hidden posts that you and PP are reading. I see one post that is someone not liking the concept, and I dislike the poster's tone most of the time, but this was pretty innocuous. Plus it's ok if a concept isn't for everyone. Everything else seems pretty positive. I can't seem to find a post blasting the name as awful either? Is this a case of folks anticipating a conflict that hasn't happened yet?

My point isn't that everyone has to like the concepts, but just show some respect and choose your words wisely. It's a big and scary commitment to open a new establishment that requires a lot of thought, energy, and financial risk and so commments like the following are unnecessary:

“not a supporter”
“stupid risk”
“Wacky Wheelz is just...awful. makes me cringe”

If you have a concern maybe ask a question instead of posting a criticism. I just find it to be bad form.

Probably so, but people need to get over it. It's 2017. Not everything has to be sanitized to be palatable to the Baptists. If it offends people, they have the right to not go.

And they won't go.

It is a risk to build a business on something that offends a near majority of people, if not a majority of people. Politicians can survive that way, business' mostly can't. If it survives and thrives good for them, if it fails miserably then it does. That's the beauty of capitalism.

Or we can all go on insane rants like Panda.

It is a risk to build a business on something that offends a near majority of people, if not a majority of people. Politicians can survive that way, business' mostly can't. If it survives and thrives good for them, if it fails miserably then it does. That's the beauty of capitalism.

First, how do you know this "offends a near majority of people?" And second, I disagree with your description of capitalism. Niche industries can and do have success. What percentage of OKC businesses do you frequent? Most people never go to an overwhelming majority of businesses... yet, they all don't go out of business. And there are entire industries that are unpopular and "offend" people that thrive.

And they won't go.

It is a risk to build a business on something that offends a near majority of people, if not a majority of people. Politicians can survive that way, business' mostly can't. If it survives and thrives good for them, if it fails miserably then it does. That's the beauty of capitalism.

Or we can all go on insane rants like Panda.

This is the part where I ask, "How do you know it will be offensive if you haven't even seen what its about?" You are basically assuming that because its a "church themed" bar that its already offensive just because of that. Which will likely be the case/excuse for the people that will never step foot inside of it. But again if that is your opinion, you are entitled to it and that doesn't offend me one bit.

To speak to your point that it's a risk, well any business endeavor is a risk, especially in the bar industry. That's why 90% of new bars don't survive past 18 months. I can name several bars in OKC that open at the start of this year and didn't even make it to December, many of which Pete has covered on here. I had countless people tell me that FlashBack would never work in OKC, that it was "too out of the box" and here we are over 2 years later and we've had incredible business since Day 1. At the end of the day only time will tell whether or not this concept will work, but I can say that the feedback I've received to this point has been overwhelmingly positive. Many have commented how it feels very much like Portland, which I love cause Portland is one of my favorite cities and they have an incredible and very creative bar scene. To see so many people already excited about it, further motivates to deliver the best possible product to our followers.

I also want to make sure everyone doesn't misunderstand or misinterpret my response on here or take it as me being overly defensive or arrogant. I knew from the beginning there was a chance this bar would be a bit controversial and that I would likely get some blow back for it. But I've been preparing for this for a long time, I've done plenty of planning and research on how this place will look and feel and I have not doubt the people that are open-minded and can look past the name or concept will really enjoy the uniqueness of what we are creating and the growth we are trying to add to the OKC nightlife.

First, how do you know this "offends a near majority of people?" And second, I disagree with your description of capitalism. Niche industries can and do have success. What percentage of OKC businesses do you frequent? Most people never go to an overwhelming majority of businesses... yet, they all don't go out of business. And there are entire industries that are unpopular and "offend" people that thrive.


i.e. Strip Clubs, lol. Offensive yet thriving... in the Bible Belt at that, haha.

As a millennial who loves to drink & who also regularly attends a small family, community oriented & financially struggling church in the inner city I love this idea and I'd love to visit. I'd also love to nominate my church as a recipient of your generosity from what will most certainly be great financial success. People who can't poke a little fun at themselves aren't my kind of people.

Best of luck!

My point isn't that everyone has to like the concepts, but just show some respect and choose your words wisely. It's a big and scary commitment to open a new establishment that requires a lot of thought, energy, and financial risk and so commments like the following are unnecessary:

“not a supporter”
“stupid risk”
“Wacky Wheelz is just...awful. makes me cringe”

If you have a concern maybe ask a question instead of posting a criticism. I just find it to be bad form.

This is Wacky Wheelz
14325

There are 2 things I know about Jrod. 1) his ideas are clearly awesome. These 2 new bars will be a hit. And 2) he posts here, which is also awesome. There's aren't just a ton of business owners who engage us here on OKCTalk. So he has a ton of respect from me. I know he is a smart man and has a good business mind.

I say the name is awful because it reminds me of that pic I just posted of Steve Buscemi. The name Wacky Wheelz just feels like an out of touch Baby Boomer trying to infiltrate a Main Event or Dave and Busters or a Middle School or something. It's just bad.

I get the gimmick of the bar. I love the idea. I love getting people on to colorful bikes and showing off the downtown area. It's great! It WILL be successful. I just wish I had a better name to allow I to be more successful. But it's not my bar. I'm just giving my feedback on a forum.

And for the record, I would say all of this to Jrod's face, which is silly to bring up, because I am, in fact, saying this to his face anyway. That's the beauty of this forum.

This is the part where I ask, "How do you know it will be offensive if you haven't even seen what its about?" You are basically assuming that because its a "church themed" bar that its already offensive just because of that. Which will likely be the case/excuse for the people that will never step foot inside of it. But again if that is your opinion, you are entitled to it and that doesn't offend me one bit.

To speak to your point that it's a risk, well any business endeavor is a risk, especially in the bar industry. That's why 90% of new bars don't survive past 18 months. I can name several bars in OKC that open at the start of this year and didn't even make it to December, many of which Pete has covered on here. I had countless people tell me that FlashBack would never work in OKC, that it was "too out of the box" and here we are over 2 years later and we've had incredible business since Day 1. At the end of the day only time will tell whether or not this concept will work, but I can say that the feedback I've received to this point has been overwhelmingly positive. Many have commented how it feels very much like Portland, which I love cause Portland is one of my favorite cities and they have an incredible and very creative bar scene. To see so many people already excited about it, further motivates to deliver the best possible product to our followers.

I also want to make sure everyone doesn't misunderstand or misinterpret my response on here or take it as me being overly defensive or arrogant. I knew from the beginning there was a chance this bar would be a bit controversial and that I would likely get some blow back for it. But I've been preparing for this for a long time, I've done plenty of planning and research on how this place will look and feel and I have not doubt the people that are open-minded and can look past the name or concept will really enjoy the uniqueness of what we are creating and the growth we are trying to add to the OKC nightlife.

I'll answer this for you but I want you to understand it is not an attack on you or your bar. I'm simply going to convey why it's offensive without even stepping foot in the bar. I know this because some of this stuff is offensive to me as a Christian. That said I'm not your enemy here. I'm not gonna protest, go on social media rants, or tell all my friends why they shouldn't go. I'm just not your customer. You know the whole middle ground thing. I'm answering this because you seem genuinely curious.

Let's start with the entire concept, "a fun light hearted take on religion". To a Christian, there is nothing light hearted about any of this. When you die you go to heaven or hell for all eternity. And please don't come back with any if you go to this bar it means you're going to hell nonsense. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply conveying the frame of reference, and that is none of this is "light hearted", it's serious with very serious consequences.

A "church themed bar" is just not a good thing. It aligns with nothing in scripture. There's a million reasons why and I just don't have the time to get into them.

Serving "Holy Sangria served in a chalice" comes across as mocking communion.
"singers will don choir robes before taking the stage" mocking the act of worship.
Kinda goes against the "God is not to be mocked" verse. (Galatians 6:7) I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to mocking God. Particularity when it's pretty easy to just go to one of the other 384 cool bars OKC has now. I get it, others will see it as just harmless fun and they're entitled to that belief/opinion. You won't ever convince me it's anything short of mocking God. That'll be the majority of what Christians think. And no, I don't need to "try new things" I'm pretty close minded when it comes to my faith, as we were commanded to be in the world but not of it.

Last, Christians feel mocked enough as it is in the US. Whether they actually are or aren't isn't the debate, the point is they feel that way. At first read this absolutely 100% feels like the bar is mocking Christians and people will be instantly turned off, never to even try. The fact that the article even has to qualify the bar being ok and not offensive, with the phrase "a respectful take", kinda tells you all you need to know. Like yelling, "I'm the King" or "I'm not a racist, but".

Hope that answers your question. If it succeeds good for you, if it fails it'll be pretty obvious why. Let capitalism do it's thing.

This reminds me of my annual "Chocolate Jesus Haulocast" party my wife and I throw every year after Easter, using clearance Easter chocolate for fondue and infusing vodka with peeps. Maybe I could move it to the Sanctuary, lol.

This reminds me of my annual "Chocolate Jesus Haulocast" party my wife and I throw every year after Easter, using clearance Easter chocolate for fondue and infusing vodka with peeps. Maybe I could move it to the Sanctuary, lol.
That is brilliant!..

Some people prefer the sackcloth and ashes. Some people appreciate the wisdom behind Proverbs 15:13. Although Ecclesiastes 9:7 might be a little more pertinent to the discussion.

As for me? Pass the Deviled Eggs. Luke 11:12.

Just make sure it's an egg. ��

I'll answer this for you but I want you to understand it is not an attack on you or your bar. I'm simply going to convey why it's offensive without even stepping foot in the bar. I know this because some of this stuff is offensive to me as a Christian. That said I'm not your enemy here. I'm not gonna protest, go on social media rants, or tell all my friends why they shouldn't go. I'm just not your customer. You know the whole middle ground thing. I'm answering this because you seem genuinely curious.

Let's start with the entire concept, "a fun light hearted take on religion". To a Christian, there is nothing light hearted about any of this. When you die you go to heaven or hell for all eternity. And please don't come back with any if you go to this bar it means you're going to hell nonsense. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply conveying the frame of reference, and that is none of this is "light hearted", it's serious with very serious consequences.

A "church themed bar" is just not a good thing. It aligns with nothing in scripture. There's a million reasons why and I just don't have the time to get into them.

Serving "Holy Sangria served in a chalice" comes across as mocking communion.
"singers will don choir robes before taking the stage" mocking the act of worship.
Kinda goes against the "God is not to be mocked" verse. (Galatians 6:7) I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to mocking God. Particularity when it's pretty easy to just go to one of the other 384 cool bars OKC has now. I get it, others will see it as just harmless fun and they're entitled to that belief/opinion. You won't ever convince me it's anything short of mocking God. That'll be the majority of what Christians think. And no, I don't need to "try new things" I'm pretty close minded when it comes to my faith, as we were commanded to be in the world but not of it.

Last, Christians feel mocked enough as it is in the US. Whether they actually are or aren't isn't the debate, the point is they feel that way. At first read this absolutely 100% feels like the bar is mocking Christians and people will be instantly turned off, never to even try. The fact that the article even has to qualify the bar being ok and not offensive, with the phrase "a respectful take", kinda tells you all you need to know. Like yelling, "I'm the King" or "I'm not a racist, but".

Hope that answers your question. If it succeeds good for you, if it fails it'll be pretty obvious why. Let capitalism do it's thing.

It's pretty clear that you aren't his target customer. That's fine. I think the bar will be successful. Though the culture in OKC is heavily driven by uptight, conservative Baptists, there is a large number of people who don't fall into that mold. A lot of people don't realize how large the atheist/agnostic/none community in OKC is simply because it's not very visible. Something like this will be very appealing to them as well as less uptight Christians. Like you say, let capitalism do it's thing. I am certain that this will offend less people than the bars on NW 39th do and yet they are successful.

And the Christian persecution complex is largely due to Fox News, televangelists, and Christian-targeted films such as God's Not Dead. You can't live in a place like OKC where evangelical Christianity is virtually inescapable and legitimately claim Christians are a persecuted minority.

Wasn’t Flashback initially going in on 23rd somewhere? The Rise, maybe? Obviously we’ll never know how that would have worked out, but man, adding a successful Flashback plus two other bars to what’s already happened in Uptown would have made that a really a great little stretch.

I'll answer this for you but I want you to understand it is not an attack on you or your bar. I'm simply going to convey why it's offensive without even stepping foot in the bar. I know this because some of this stuff is offensive to me as a Christian. That said I'm not your enemy here. I'm not gonna protest, go on social media rants, or tell all my friends why they shouldn't go. I'm just not your customer. You know the whole middle ground thing. I'm answering this because you seem genuinely curious.

Let's start with the entire concept, "a fun light hearted take on religion". To a Christian, there is nothing light hearted about any of this. When you die you go to heaven or hell for all eternity. And please don't come back with any if you go to this bar it means you're going to hell nonsense. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply conveying the frame of reference, and that is none of this is "light hearted", it's serious with very serious consequences.

A "church themed bar" is just not a good thing. It aligns with nothing in scripture. There's a million reasons why and I just don't have the time to get into them.

Serving "Holy Sangria served in a chalice" comes across as mocking communion.
"singers will don choir robes before taking the stage" mocking the act of worship.
Kinda goes against the "God is not to be mocked" verse. (Galatians 6:7) I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to mocking God. Particularity when it's pretty easy to just go to one of the other 384 cool bars OKC has now. I get it, others will see it as just harmless fun and they're entitled to that belief/opinion. You won't ever convince me it's anything short of mocking God. That'll be the majority of what Christians think. And no, I don't need to "try new things" I'm pretty close minded when it comes to my faith, as we were commanded to be in the world but not of it.

Last, Christians feel mocked enough as it is in the US. Whether they actually are or aren't isn't the debate, the point is they feel that way. At first read this absolutely 100% feels like the bar is mocking Christians and people will be instantly turned off, never to even try. The fact that the article even has to qualify the bar being ok and not offensive, with the phrase "a respectful take", kinda tells you all you need to know. Like yelling, "I'm the King" or "I'm not a racist, but".

Hope that answers your question. If it succeeds good for you, if it fails it'll be pretty obvious why. Let capitalism do it's thing.

Definitely the truest thing you said.

Also, Im not sure you speak for as many people as you think. I know plenty of Christians, Catholics especially, that would happily go here for an evening of fun and fellowship.

I'll answer this for you but I want you to understand it is not an attack on you or your bar. I'm simply going to convey why it's offensive without even stepping foot in the bar. I know this because some of this stuff is offensive to me as a Christian. That said I'm not your enemy here. I'm not gonna protest, go on social media rants, or tell all my friends why they shouldn't go. I'm just not your customer. You know the whole middle ground thing. I'm answering this because you seem genuinely curious.

Let's start with the entire concept, "a fun light hearted take on religion". To a Christian, there is nothing light hearted about any of this. When you die you go to heaven or hell for all eternity. And please don't come back with any if you go to this bar it means you're going to hell nonsense. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply conveying the frame of reference, and that is none of this is "light hearted", it's serious with very serious consequences.

A "church themed bar" is just not a good thing. It aligns with nothing in scripture. There's a million reasons why and I just don't have the time to get into them.

Serving "Holy Sangria served in a chalice" comes across as mocking communion.
"singers will don choir robes before taking the stage" mocking the act of worship.
Kinda goes against the "God is not to be mocked" verse. (Galatians 6:7) I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to mocking God. Particularity when it's pretty easy to just go to one of the other 384 cool bars OKC has now. I get it, others will see it as just harmless fun and they're entitled to that belief/opinion. You won't ever convince me it's anything short of mocking God. That'll be the majority of what Christians think. And no, I don't need to "try new things" I'm pretty close minded when it comes to my faith, as we were commanded to be in the world but not of it.

Last, Christians feel mocked enough as it is in the US. Whether they actually are or aren't isn't the debate, the point is they feel that way. At first read this absolutely 100% feels like the bar is mocking Christians and people will be instantly turned off, never to even try. The fact that the article even has to qualify the bar being ok and not offensive, with the phrase "a respectful take", kinda tells you all you need to know. Like yelling, "I'm the King" or "I'm not a racist, but".

Hope that answers your question. If it succeeds good for you, if it fails it'll be pretty obvious why. Let capitalism do it's thing.


gopokes88, I get it, you gotta stay true to yourself and your opinions. However, for the sake of conversation, I am a bit curious if you think it's offensive for a church to hold their ministry inside of a pub or brew house? or for a church to hold events at bars in order to recruit new members? Is that much more different then a church themed bar, highlighting the things people enjoy about church?

if you have a chance read these articles below:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-wisconsin-jesus-beer-religious-group-20160915-story.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/11/03/242301642/to-stave-off-decline-churches-attract-new-members-with-beer

http://www.knoxnews.com/story/life/2017/09/03/bar-church-serves-up-example-faith-where-you-find/511773001/

https://churchleaders.com/outreach-missions/outreach-missions-articles/149714-the-local-church-vs-the-local-bar.html

Without giving you a full detailed history of my life, i grew up in the Catholic Church and served as an alter-boy from the time I was 7 years old until I was 11 years old. I currently attend LifeChurch, where I've been for the last 5 years. Not that any of that really matters, but I just want to clarify again that I don't have an anti-church or anti-religion agenda here.

I also have to point out a couple of things:

1. comparing the phrase ""a fun light hearted take on religion" to "I'm not a racist, but" is a bit ridiculous.

2. It's easy to take a bible verse out of context by simply reading one single verse and not understanding what it relates to or what scripture comes before or after it. For example, you quoted (Galatians 6:7) "God is not to be mocked". That single verse justifies your point, if that is the only verse you read and didn't read the rest of the verses after it which i've copied below:

(7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.)

Again, I'm replying to be defensive or combative on your comments. You are entitled to your beliefs, but remember they are you're beliefs and you don't speak for the majority of what Christians think. I consider myself a Christian and obviously you don't speak for my thoughts on this, and the large majority of people that I've spoken to that are members of the church have loved the concept. I beg to differ that if my business fails it wouldn't be because of the concept, it'll be because it was poorly ran and executed. I sincerely apologize if I wasted anyone else's time with this long post, lol.

Wish you all could put this concept in that abandoned church in Midtown! I realize that would make it more difficult to manage with your other two bars, but it would be cool!

Definitely the truest thing you said.

Also, Im not sure you speak for as many people as you think. I know plenty of Christians, Catholics especially, that would happily go here for an evening of fun and fellowship.

That's "Drink and Fellowship" don't change my tag line. Me and John (Ment Apparel) sent a long 10 minutes coming up with it. hahaha

Wasn’t Flashback initially going in on 23rd somewhere? The Rise, maybe? Obviously we’ll never know how that would have worked out, but man, adding a successful Flashback plus two other bars to what’s already happened in Uptown would have made that a really a great little stretch.

yes, it was HELL (pun intended). To put it nicely, things just didn't work out on 23rd and I'm glad they didn't. I can't imagine being anywhere besides Film Row now and growing with the district. We were the first bar in the district and hope to continue growing with Sanctuary, Wacky Wheelz and ABC123 Bar (Next Concept Bar Currently In Development). This district has so many abandoned buildings with so much potential.

We are also in contract negotiations to open up a 2nd FlashBack RetroPub in the Fort Worth market possibly towards the end of 2018.

^

One of the great outcomes of that Film Row location for FlashBack is that it was much bigger than the other spot; seemingly more than was needed.

But it's allowed them to do all types of things and especially on weekend nights, they need every bit of that space and more.

Plus, I've just grown to the love the place and the charm of that location has always been a big part of it.

Incorporating "communion" into a shot/chaser would be awesome.

ABC123 Bar (Next Concept Bar Currently In Development). .

That theme is going to be teachers/education, with many throwbacks to Schoolhouse Rock. The menu will be called the curriculum, the signature drink will be the All-Nighter (some combination of energy drink and cocktail), and after you drink 100 of them (over a period of time, not in one night!) you get a 'diploma' on the wall.

And the bartenders will make more than Oklahoma teachers. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

That theme is going to be teachers/education, with many throwbacks to Schoolhouse Rock. The menu will be called the curriculum, the signature drink will be the All-Nighter (some combination of energy drink and cocktail), and after you drink 100 of them (over a period of time, not in one night!) you get a 'diploma' on the wall.

And the bartenders will make more than Oklahoma teachers. (Sorry, couldn't resist).


That's pretty funny, I actually thought about having more of a school decor at FlashBack since we have the lockers and looked at adding old school desk as tables.

Incorporating "communion" into a shot/chaser would be awesome.

Yes, there will be a shot called The Communion, as well as a 2 shot combo called Alpha & Omega. There will be drinks called Last Testament and Forbidden Fruit.

Not to get side tracked JRod, but what happened with Wichita? Not in the plans anymore?

Not to get side tracked JRod, but what happened with Wichita? Not in the plans anymore?

The owners of the building attempted to switch us to a different building than we had agreed to after we had an LOI in place and about to sign a contract. So we passed on the building they were trying to force us into, and they went and found someone local to open up an Arcade business in one of their other buildings. I'm not going to say its an arcade bar cause from what I've heard they don't plan on selling beer or alcohol to begin with, but might change it later on.

If you are familiar with anyone from Wichita, the guys name is Derek Sorrells. The place was suppose to open up this last weekend and its called The Arcade. They charge $8 per hour to play unlimited games or you can purchase a day pass.

Did I PM at one point and tell you my BIL is pretty big in real estate up there? If you're still interested in the market let me know and I'd be glad to help.

Did I PM at one point and tell you my BIL is pretty big in real estate up there? If you're still interested in the market let me know and I'd be glad to help.

I'm pretty sure you did. I'll let you know if we decide to revisit Wichita, but for now we are focused on opening the next 2 businesses here and then FlashBack in Fort Worth. But the plan is to open at least 3 more FlashBacks in the next 2 years.

And they won't go.

It is a risk to build a business on something that offends a near majority of people, if not a majority of people. Politicians can survive that way, business' mostly can't. If it survives and thrives good for them, if it fails miserably then it does. That's the beauty of capitalism.

Or we can all go on insane rants like Panda.
But they’re fun

^

One of the great outcomes of that Film Row location for FlashBack is that it was much bigger than the other spot; seemingly more than was needed.

But it's allowed them to do all types of things and especially on weekend nights, they need every bit of that space and more.

Plus, I've just grown to the love the place and the charm of that location has always been a big part of it.

Sure, and I'm glad it's worked out. I love the space Flashback ended up in. Just a general wish that investment was consolidated into fewer but larger districts. Seems like a property owner or two puts money into an area, then everything near it becomes so expensive that the next round of would-be investors move to other "undiscovered" districts. Prices in that area then go up, and the next round of investment moves elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. The result being A TON of thriving two- or three-block "districts," which is great, but none of which individually are super impressive to someone coming from a peer city.

And I do recognize JRod/Flashback tried to go into Uptown, so nothing against them here at all. Just generally dreaming of bigger, more walkable neighborhoods. Put three more bars or restaurants on 23rd between Dewey and Robinson and that's a really impressive stretch. Instead, Film Row's gone from not much to one of the cooler little pockets in town in just a few years. Flashback is definitely well-run, and I think the Sanctuary concept will do just fine.

Sure, and I'm glad it's worked out. I love the space Flashback ended up in. Just a general wish that investment was consolidated into fewer but larger districts. Seems like a property owner or two puts money into an area, then everything near it becomes so expensive that the next round of would-be investors move to other "undiscovered" districts. Prices in that area then go up, and the next round of investment moves elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. The result being A TON of thriving two- or three-block "districts," which is great, but none of which individually are super impressive to someone coming from a peer city.

And I do recognize JRod/Flashback tried to go into Uptown, so nothing against them here at all. Just generally dreaming of bigger, more walkable neighborhoods. Put three more bars or restaurants on 23rd between Dewey and Robinson and that's a really impressive stretch. Instead, Film Row's gone from not much to one of the cooler little pockets in town in just a few years. Flashback is definitely well-run, and I think the Sanctuary concept will do just fine.

I agree with you 100%!!! For some reason that seems to be very difficult to do in OKC. A lot has to do with the owners of the buildings and the price per square foot that they are requesting. A lot of owners see 1 business succeed then they think that their spot is worth $3 more than a year ago. If they took the approach of increasing it over a 5 year stretch or in the 2nd contract it would likely help out a lot of business owners trying to grow. Our Film Row lease was maybe $1000 more per month at the beginning, then it would have been at The Rise and we have double the amount of space. if that tells you how over-priced The Rise was. And correct me if I'm wrong but I think at least 2 different businesses have already closed and there's at least 1 space still vacant directly behind Drake on the 2nd floor. Believe me when I say I would be hating myself right now if everything would have worked out and we would have stayed in the space we had. I don't think we would have survived there more than a year or two.

The other issue is that a lot of owners still have negative cogitations about bars still. Many still seem to think that bars are dingy, run down looking establishments, because that's all they've really seen in OKC. And if you explain that it's not a typical bar then they think its more of a club, and then they really don't want it in their space, lol. Perhaps with more concept bars opening and surviving, it will help some change their minds on what a bar can be. But they have to survive and they have to be well run, opening up a bar only to change the name within a year or 2 doesn't help. I see it all the time in Bricktown, there's several buildings that are on their 4th & 5th name change in the last 7-8 years and it's the same owner, same concept, same everything. I've never really understood the purpose of it, especially if they bar/club appeared to be thriving.

Probably so, but people need to get over it. It's 2017. Not everything has to be sanitized to be palatable to the Baptists. If it offends people, they have the right to not go.

People are definitely blowing this out of proportion. They need to just quiet down and ignore things that they think are offensive.

In completely unrelated news, I'd like to announce I've decided to open my own bar, a lighthearted but respectful take on the Civil Rights Movement. I call it Malcolm's XXX (with the XXX on a jug of moonshine). You can park your car in our "Free at Last" Rosa Parking Lot, and enjoy fun themed drinks like the Manhattan Luther King (in a cocktail glass or in our custom "shot" glasses), or our delicious Uncle Tom Collins. Looking forward to seeing you all there.

Sure, and I'm glad it's worked out. I love the space Flashback ended up in. Just a general wish that investment was consolidated into fewer but larger districts. Seems like a property owner or two puts money into an area, then everything near it becomes so expensive that the next round of would-be investors move to other "undiscovered" districts. Prices in that area then go up, and the next round of investment moves elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. The result being A TON of thriving two- or three-block "districts," which is great, but none of which individually are super impressive to someone coming from a peer city.


I agree with this completely. OKC has more developing urban districts than cities its size (or even larger) typically do yet they all remain underdeveloped, which can leave a bad impression to people coming from peer cities and is a likely contributor to the "boring" perception that OKC still carries. I would like to see more investment into fewer districts. I am also a bit skeptical about developments such as the Wheeler District and Strawberry Fields. I worry that OKC simply isn't large enough or growing fast enough to support them as envisioned and they will either fall significantly short or cannibalize existing districts.

The other issue is that a lot of owners still have negative cogitations about bars still. Many still seem to think that bars are dingy, run down looking establishments, because that's all they've really seen in OKC. And if you explain that it's not a typical bar then they think its more of a club, and then they really don't want it in their space, lol. Perhaps with more concept bars opening and surviving, it will help some change their minds on what a bar can be. But they have to survive and they have to be well run, opening up a bar only to change the name within a year or 2 doesn't help. I see it all the time in Bricktown, there's several buildings that are on their 4th & 5th name change in the last 7-8 years and it's the same owner, same concept, same everything. I've never really understood the purpose of it, especially if they bar/club appeared to be thriving.

Great points here. I can see a lot of the older generation, especially in OKC, having this perception of a bar as something like a bar on NW 39th Expwy that I won't name. It's a real, genuine dive bar and not the kind of place hipsters hang out because they think dive bars are cool. It's the kind of place where you walk in and you can feel the sketchiness. The place smells of urine, BO, and stale cigarette smoke. It has been in the news a few times for violence even since I've been back here.

As for the Bricktown night clubs rebranding every couple of years, I believe that is pretty common in the club business. It is especially in a place where all the clubs are concentrated near each other and they are competing with each other. Sometimes rebranding at the right time can give them a leg up on their competition.

I agree with this completely. OKC has more developing urban districts than cities its size (or even larger) typically do yet they all remain underdeveloped, which can leave a bad impression to people coming from peer cities and is a likely contributor to the "boring" perception that OKC still carries. I would like to see more investment into fewer districts. I am also a bit skeptical about developments such as the Wheeler District and Strawberry Fields. I worry that OKC simply isn't large enough or growing fast enough to support them as envisioned and they will either fall significantly short or cannibalize existing districts.

Bricktown, the Plaza District, and Paseo are all well developed at this point. Could they better? Sure, but that’s the same for other cities. I was in the Plaza yesterday and it really is a mature district at this point with places like The Press popping up on side streets. Every restaurant and bar was absolutely slammed. I think out of towners would be theoriughky impressed with the district.

Midtown is really the only district that’s got a lot of holes, but the individual developments are really impressive.

IMO, the only districts that don’t have much holes are Paseo and Plaza. But those are a stretch. Every district in OKC has a lot of holes, even the CBD.

That being said, I like our many districts and think that they will make OKC feel like a huge city when they’re filled up. There are new districts soon to become prominent such as the Stockyards and Linwood. Things can only get better for OKC.

IMO, the only districts that don’t have much holes are Paseo and Plaza. But those are a stretch. Every district in OKC has a lot of holes, even the CBD.

That being said, I like our many districts and think that they will make OKC feel like a huge city when they’re filled up. There are new districts soon to become prominent such as the Stockyards and Linwood. Things can only get better for OKC.


I have to ask, because I don't see it. Why do so many people think that Linwood is the next big district? The neighborhoods around it are mostly run down/drug houses, a majority of the building are falling apart or poorly taken care of and there's very little traffic that goes through there on a regular basis. I don't know, I think the area is years away from developing. I cut through there almost everyday when I'm heading to the bar and its just not impressive at all. I hope I'm proven wrong and in 5 years its developing and full of great restaurants/bars.

Another area I just don't see gaining much traction is Farmers Market. I love that area and considered looking for space there, but there doesn't seem to be much going on there at night besides Power House. Little over a year ago there were a couple of out of state developers that were looking at purchasing the land southeast of the Farmers Market that runs all the way to I-40, but they couldn't get the entire land acquired in one swoop so they backed out. At least that's what I heard from someone involved behind the scenes on the deal. Apparently that land is owned by the city as was as other private owners and it became a mess trying to get it all done. But if it would have gone through that plans they had were incredible, with mid rise housing, restaurants, bars, retail, etc... Oh the what if's of OKC. Sometimes it makes me wonder if the people who run/own a majority of the land here even care about the city moving forward and improving.

I think it’s going to be awhile before it happens, but if OKC booms, naturally I see Linwood becoming a new established district. I completely forgot about The Farmers Market District. That area sure has been slow to take off.

Someone needs to open a place called "The Breakfast Club" focused on brunch. With drinks themes like the burnout or the preppy.

Late to this thread so forgive me if this has been covered about Wacky Wheelz...is it legal to ride a bike on a city street while intoxicated?

Also, as far as decommissioned church buildings go, there was one with gothic architecture on Classen that became a bar. I think they added turrents to the spires to try to make it look like a castle if memory serves. It was out of business for awhile and then the Bowery moved there for a short time before it closed. Do not remember the name of the former church or the first bar. (I hung out there a bit before and after the move from Midtown.)

Late to this thread so forgive me if this has been covered about Wacky Wheelz...is it legal to ride a bike on a city street while intoxicated?

Also, as far as decommissioned church buildings go, there was one with gothic architecture on Classen that became a bar. I think they added turrents to the spires to try to make it look like a castle if memory serves. It was out of business for awhile and then the Bowery moved there for a short time before it closed. Do not remember the name of the former church or the first bar. (I hung out there a bit before and after the move from Midtown.)

Ok so this is how Wacky Wheelz will work. If you have a group of 8 or more people that want to do a bar hopping excursion they let us know what bars in the downtown area they would like to visit and we will map out the best/safest/easiest route to take. The group are limited to 4 maybe 5 different bars they can go to and they only get about 30-40 minutes max at each bar. The total excursion time from start to finish will be under 4 hours taking riding time into account.

Each group will have at least 1 tour guide that rides the tricycle leading the group to each location, after each bar the tour lead will make sure that every person in the group is capable of riding their cruiser and continuing to the next location. If for some reason a rider is not able to continue on the tour, to guide will call back to the office and we will go pick them up and bring them back to event space. There are several bike riding and bar hopping events that take place in the city already, Tour De Biere and Pint Rider, so we won't be the first to go bar hopping on bikes and as far as I know none of them have had any issues or accidents.

I participated in Pint Rider this year and you would be surprised how responsible everyone drinking was. The goal of the excursion is not to go get hammered as quickly as possible, its to enjoy your time with your friends as you tour the different districts around downtown. We will also have everyone sign waivers prior to going on these tours.

Someone needs to open a place called "The Breakfast Club" focused on brunch. With drinks themes like the burnout or the preppy.


We do have a place called The Sandwich Club on Western with 80s Themed Sandwiches, if you haven't visited yet I recommend it.

We do have a place called The Sandwich Club on Western with 80s Themed Sandwiches, if you haven't visited yet I recommend it.

We went once, and that's all we'll do. Sandwiches were OK, but I can make the majority of them at home with the exact same ingredients (or better) for about $2-3 per sandwich.

Ok so this is how Wacky Wheelz will work. If you have a group of 8 or more people that want to do a bar hopping excursion they let us know what bars in the downtown area they would like to visit and we will map out the best/safest/easiest route to take. The group are limited to 4 maybe 5 different bars they can go to and they only get about 30-40 minutes max at each bar. The total excursion time from start to finish will be under 4 hours taking riding time into account.

Each group will have at least 1 tour guide that rides the tricycle leading the group to each location, after each bar the tour lead will make sure that every person in the group is capable of riding their cruiser and continuing to the next location. If for some reason a rider is not able to continue on the tour, to guide will call back to the office and we will go pick them up and bring them back to event space. There are several bike riding and bar hopping events that take place in the city already, Tour De Biere and Pint Rider, so we won't be the first to go bar hopping on bikes and as far as I know none of them have had any issues or accidents.

I participated in Pint Rider this year and you would be surprised how responsible everyone drinking was. The goal of the excursion is not to go get hammered as quickly as possible, its to enjoy your time with your friends as you tour the different districts around downtown. We will also have everyone sign waivers prior to going on these tours.

Thanks for the answer and all the responsible planning. It sounds like fun. You didn't answer my question.

Can't wait to try this out. The current bars in OKC for me feel stale, I haven't been able to find a new hangout I really like.

People are definitely blowing this out of proportion. They need to just quiet down and ignore things that they think are offensive.

In completely unrelated news, I'd like to announce I've decided to open my own bar, a lighthearted but respectful take on the Civil Rights Movement. I call it Malcolm's XXX (with the XXX on a jug of moonshine). You can park your car in our "Free at Last" Rosa Parking Lot, and enjoy fun themed drinks like the Manhattan Luther King (in a cocktail glass or in our custom "shot" glasses), or our delicious Uncle Tom Collins. Looking forward to seeing you all there.

This is where the inner hypocrite would come out in everyone saying that religious people should just get over this and not be offended by a church themed bar. It would be the exact same thing but as BChris said “it’s 2017” and everyone would be super offended.

Really excited for both the sanctuary and wacky wheels!!!

Thanks for the answer and all the responsible planning. It sounds like fun. You didn't answer my question.

Sorry, to answer your question, it's not legal to be riding a bicycle drunk. But it wouldn't be DUI illegal, just Public Intoxication illegal. Oklahoma is one of several states that you can't get a DUI for riding you bike while you are drunk. However, we don't have to worry about it cause if someone gets too drunk to ride, we will simply go pick them up.

I assume it will be a similar setup to Bricktown Bike Bar.

http://www.bricktownbikebar.com/

Sure, and I'm glad it's worked out. I love the space Flashback ended up in. Just a general wish that investment was consolidated into fewer but larger districts. Seems like a property owner or two puts money into an area, then everything near it becomes so expensive that the next round of would-be investors move to other "undiscovered" districts. Prices in that area then go up, and the next round of investment moves elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. The result being A TON of thriving two- or three-block "districts," which is great, but none of which individually are super impressive to someone coming from a peer city.

And I do recognize JRod/Flashback tried to go into Uptown, so nothing against them here at all. Just generally dreaming of bigger, more walkable neighborhoods. Put three more bars or restaurants on 23rd between Dewey and Robinson and that's a really impressive stretch. Instead, Film Row's gone from not much to one of the cooler little pockets in town in just a few years. Flashback is definitely well-run, and I think the Sanctuary concept will do just fine.

StJohn, I agree with you but I think OKC is finally reaching a tipping point to where new districts in the core is a thing of the past and development is reaching critical mass as 'original' districts are being revisited.

Look at Bricktown. Look at AAlley. Plaza. Uptown. Paseo. These all are having serious in-fill (or significant plans) that will continue to densify them all the while up and coming districts such as Midtown, C2S/Coop, Farmer's Market, Classen, and Capital Hill are figuring out what they want to be. Midtown is a different animal given its primary anchor + building stock + proximity to the CBD & Automobile Alley but I still call it up-and-coming due to its sheer size vs. amount developed; to-be-developed.

This works for a very thriving urban core and I think development has reached critical mass enough for all of them to continue to infill nice and organically. Film Row is the only district that isn't as organic as the other districts [think West Villiage] but as JRod mentions it has a ton of buildings to work with. As long as the urban crowd continues to be urban and grow and suburbanites and tourists patronize the core for entertainment and more, OKC will become the city we all want its core to be in 10-years that will compare better than our peers due to size/amount of districts and what they individually offer.

ABC3 Re-zoning was approved by City Council today, last major hurdle to get Liquor License.

Congrats!

Looking forward to seeing this come together and having another option in Film Row.

As a millennial who loves to drink & who also regularly attends a small family, community oriented & financially struggling church in the inner city I love this idea and I'd love to visit. I'd also love to nominate my church as a recipient of your generosity from what will most certainly be great financial success. People who can't poke a little fun at themselves aren't my kind of people.

Best of luck!

jccouger,

can you give me the contact information for your church? also do you think your pastor would be open to participating in our Jesus & Beer Night, where he can come out and just listen (interject bible facts when needed) to what church and non-church attending guest alike discuss in regard to various religious topics?

http://m.news9.com/story.aspx?story=37195710&catId=112032

http://m.news9.com/story.aspx?story=37195710&catId=112032

Woohoo! The free advertising has begun! So many people my age absolutely despise church in every way... I think this concept will go over quite well.

From their Twitter feed:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sanctuary020718.jpg

From https://twitter.com/sanctuarybarokc:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sanctuary052118.jpg

That's a good looking logo :wink:

Took this photo last week after a meeting I had with the owner. They are getting closer.

14782