We get California retirees that made money off of the appreciation of their homes and need to stretch what they have out for the rest of their lives. They aren't really earning that much so income taxes don't matter as much as low property taxes. They take the profit from their Cali homes and pay cash for homes here, and maybe put a little in the bank. For the most part they don't have kids and don't have to worry about education. They aren't necessarily coming here to start businesses, so they aren't concerned about an educated work force. They aren't looking for high paying jobs as they are likely retired and have a pension from a Cali company. We have relatively cheap homes. We have pretty darn good medical communitiy, so that is a positive for them. We have pretty open streets and freeways, so driving is less a problem.

All in all, we are the Mexico of US retirement destinations .... low cost for fixed income populations and a fairly peaceful lifestyle.

However, we aren't all that attractive for high earners and for moving a business here. Those go to Austin, Columbus, Charlotte, and the like. Their economic growth far eclipses us.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/netmigration1.jpg

The south is really interesting. Oklahoma is basically average

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/netmigration1.jpg

ME, WV, & AR numbers surprise me.

^

All are big retirement spots.

I know a bunch of people who have retired to Idaho, hence the #1 ranking.

A Tale of Two Dakotas.

One thing most people miss is the $10K deduct from taxes on a pension, Ira or other type retirement money. Add to this no taxes on SS and lower housing costs compaired to other states and lower property taxes. Food and gas is cheaper along with electricity. Retirees see this as a plus. We dont get bad winters, ie long cold and snowy. For some folks we have the interstates so if they have kids scattered out then they are more centrally located for family get togethers. I keep meeting people who have left either Calif or Chicago due to laws they dont like or high taxes and love the cheaper housing prices. WE are not perfect but for some people we do offer a better place to live. Remember lots of people have different needs/wants.

One thing most people miss is the $10K deduct from taxes on a pension, Ira or other type retirement money. Add to this no taxes on SS and lower housing costs compaired to other states and lower property taxes. Food and gas is cheaper along with electricity. Retirees see this as a plus. We dont get bad winters, ie long cold and snowy. For some folks we have the interstates so if they have kids scattered out then they are more centrally located for family get togethers. I keep meeting people who have left either Calif or Chicago due to laws they dont like or high taxes and love the cheaper housing prices. WE are not perfect but for some people we do offer a better place to live. Remember lots of people have different needs/wants.

We need to attract a lot more people than the occasional retiree. Lots of people have different needs/wants but if we are only catering to the retiree wants/needs then the state is in trouble. Businesses aren't going to flock to the state just because a couple of senior citizens liked the tax break on SS. How many of the above pros that you listed are going to convince a young educated workforce to move here?

^

If there is any appeal to a retiree, it's to those without much money. Those with more options choose rural Oregon, Florida, Maine and many other places.

And even with the "it's cheap here" approach, I think it's highly unusual for someone to retire here without family ties.

Hate to be a downer, but Oklahoma for multiple reasons some of which I won't discuss for fear of rapid reprisal has become a lot less desirable as a relocation option over the last 15 years. I will however submit two reasons, the most partisan politics of any State I can think of that has no tolerance for alternative views and consistently is viewed nationally as simply backward and inept. Second, Oklahomas people and leadership (of course not all) are tolerant of mediocrity in almost ALL issues important to people, hence the States poor rankings by any measure to other more prosperous and growing States.

Yet, there are states, such as Kansas, that don't have as much of this reputation of backwardness and/or stubborn partisan politics, while not being able to draw as many new people as Oklahoma.

Fortunately not all of them, but too many rural counties try to hold back Oklahoma, while adding to their own detriment. I don't think they need to worry about too many people moving in and driving up home prices.

I hope it’s just a local phenomenon at the end of the day. Also, I still can’t help but wonder what’s really driving people here. Cheap housing isn’t enough, IMO. What industries are pulling people in?

It doesn't necessarily depend on industry. If you work for the post office, you can apply to be transferred to any other post office in the country, while hoping the wait won't be too long. I suppose some of the private businesses with locations around the country would offer the same.

You cant claim people are flocking to OKC from the coasts and also point out the dirt cheap cost of housing in OKC. Those two ideas cant exist together. That isn't how supply and demand work.

^

People are saying prices have gone up quite a bit recently.

But of course, OKC is still well below average when it comes to housing costs.

What seems to be driving demand as much as anything is record-low interest rates that have brought a lot more people into the housing market, and allowing existing homeowners to use their equity the low rates to buy more expensive houses. These seem to be national trends, not just specific to OKC.

The easiest way to tell if there is a real influx from elsewhere is you start noticing a lot of out-of-state license plates because people usually change them long after they have arrived. (You'll see plenty of stories about this for Seattle, Portland, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Austin.)

And you just almost never see them here, except Texans likely visiting their families, or the occasional upper midwest plate if you are heading north on I-35 (passing through).

People are kidding themselves if they think any large migration into Oklahoma is happening.

It happened in the early 1980's. Rust belt plates everywhere, and oil was good at the time. Not sure if the influx with the last oil boom was as great as back then ?

You cant claim people are flocking to OKC from the coasts and also point out the dirt cheap cost of housing in OKC. Those two ideas cant exist together. That isn't how supply and demand work.

Employment in the City’s key industry has fallen by nearly 50% over the last year, and yet the average house in OKC has appreciated by 10%. I don’t think that can be explained away with federal stimulus or low interest rates.

Employment in the City’s key industry has fallen by nearly 50% over the last year, and yet the average house in OKC has appreciated by 10%. I don’t think that can be explained away with federal stimulus or low interest rates.

The energy industry is not nearly dominant as it once was, evidenced by OKC's continuous very low unemployment rate.

And any realtor will tell you the increase in prices has been towards the lower end of the scale. Expensive homes are much slower to appreciate.

Employment in the City’s key industry has fallen by nearly 50% over the last year, and yet the average house in OKC has appreciated by 10%. I don’t think that can be explained away with federal stimulus or low interest rates.

OKC is much better diversified now than it used to be. I thought last year would be much worse given covid+energy bottom but in reality it had little effect on the housing market unless you happened to be directly impacted in the industry.

^

People are saying prices have gone up quite a bit recently.

But of course, OKC is still well below average when it comes to housing costs.

What seems to be driving demand as much as anything is record-low interest rates that have brought a lot more people into the housing market, and allowing existing homeowners to use their equity the low rates to buy more expensive houses. These seem to be national trends, not just specific to OKC.
^
And for first time buyers to get a house. 2 of my employees are shopping for houses for the first time.

^

That's exactly what I meant when I wrote: "brought a lot more people into the housing market".

Especially because rents have really escalated around town, particularly for anything nice. I bought a great, completely renovated 3 bd 2 ba house in a wonderful area and my total payment is less than a decent 2bd apartment, and that's not even taking into account the tax advantages and appreciation (or the fact I'm on 1/3rd an acre overlooking a park, have complete privacy and quiet and a big attached 2-car garage).

Our refi this year saved us a good chunk of change.

Employment in the City’s key industry has fallen by nearly 50% over the last year, and yet the average house in OKC has appreciated by 10%. I don’t think that can be explained away with federal stimulus or low interest rates.

The OKC housing market doesn’t really care what the O&G market looks like. Home prices have been showing us that since 2015. I would say the 10% (9,000 dollar) home value increase in the OKC market over the last year would easily be explained by the lower interest rates that came in March 2020. Half of a percent will save you that 9,000 dollars several times over.

As long as Oklahoma has nobody like Mark Cuban promoting Oklahoma, I don't think we have to worry much about overly inflated real estate prices.

https://www.aol.com/finance/mark-cuban-better-chance-making-231144452.html

The OKC housing market doesn’t really care what the O&G market looks like. Home prices have been showing us that since 2015. I would say the 10% (9,000 dollar) home value increase in the OKC market over the last year would easily be explained by the lower interest rates that came in March 2020. Half of a percent will save you that 9,000 dollars several times over.

That’s my point.

thought i'd pose this question here. i'm constantly looking online at house listings in the okc area because real estate is in my blood...

i ran across a listing about a week ago for a 3500sqft home in an established neighborhood in the suburbs, built in the 2010's, and listed around $650k. so... pretty nice home, but it could easily sit at that price unless everything is 'just right.' i'm looking through the pictures and get to one of the guest bedrooms and, lo and behold, there's a huge rebel flag draped on the wall. my jaw kind of hit the floor... ideology aside, just from a business perspective... it just seemed to me like a huge misstep on both the part of the owners and *especially* the realtor for not advising their client differently. i'd be interested in hearing your opinions on this...

if you're the listing agent on this, do you advise your seller to take the flag down? do you at least employ some strategic interior photos to conceal the rebel flag?

if you're the selling agent, do you not present this listing to your buyers because you might offend them?

if you're the buyer, do you eliminate this house from consideration because of it?

or... does this not make a lick of difference? (i am actually kind of curious if my impression is a bit of an overreaction)

(btw... i'm not going to give the address... and if anybody is able to find it, i'd appreciate that you'd do the same. my point isn't to cause grief for these people.)

^

Good grief.

When I listed my home in California, the realtor strongly advised me to make a bunch of small changes like moving artwork around and removing one chair from the living area. Mind you, I am borderline OCD, a neat freak and a minimalist and she still wanted changes. I realized at that point I was in the process of letting go and not having it be my home anymore, so I did pretty much as she advised. The house sold very quickly but everything does out there, so I have no idea if her recommendations made any impact.

And as a potential buyer, I personally would never want to give my money to someone who had a confederate flag in their home. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

If I was listing a house and the owner had a confederate, gay, blm flag, or any other political paraphernalia I'd advise them to hide it for sure.

I’m certainly not trying to cast shade on real estate agents, but a number of them (even the ones with the listings) aren’t necessarily Phi Beta Kappas.

I could see how the impact of certain symbols might be lost in the ether.

Are there signs that the real estate market is easing up just a bit? I imagine it’ll still be a seller’s market for some time, but I’m noticing homes in my neighborhood sit on the market for a week or two (when they would have been under contract in a matter of days) and also a couple of homes that have even cut their listing price.

^

I bet it will start to cool off once school starts, as families with kids prefer to move during the summer.

Lumber is going down, semiconductors are coming into stock more and used car prices are starting to stabilize and go down. Real estate will probably follow those trends and cool off a bit.

And I'm sure there are a ton of homes in the pipeline in terms of new construction.

Single-family residential permits in the OKC Metro are at their highest level since like 2005 or 2006.

In the last few months I've noticed out of state license plates in the driveways for at least half a dozen places that were recently listed, just south of Oklahoma city university.

Colorado, California, Washington and texas plates.

We listed our home in the OKC/DC/Edmond triangle area last Friday and accepted an offer on Sunday. We had lots of showings during that time.

I tell sellers to take down anything that might offend anyone. Flags, teams they might cheer for, animal heads, photos, ect. I try to disassociate the sellers from the house so people only focus on the property and not anything extracurricular.

I tell sellers to take down anything that might offend anyone. Flags, teams they might cheer for, animal heads, photos, ect. I try to disassociate the sellers from the house so people only focus on the property and not anything extracurricular.

My mom keeps insisting that when she finally sells her house, she won't sell to an investor. I"m absolutely beside myself because she's only been in the house for like 10 years, didn't raise her kids there, and by and large has mostly bad memories as it's been a rough 10 years. I'm just like "Why the hell do you care?"

But nope - human beings are not rational and will torpedo their ability to make money because they "have to" let people know who they are.

I'm still seeing lots of flip homes in my neighborhood bounded by May & Penn and I-44 & NW Expressway.

The signs are clear: a dumpster shows up, they almost always paint the brick white and the trim black, and put in new interior finishes.

Have been selling between $150 and $180 per SF, and the numbers keep going up.

The homes in the area are generally '60s ranchers which lend themselves well to opened floorplans, and the location is awesome. Really glad I bought here when I did; my house has now appreciated almost 50% in just 5 years, although I have put a bunch of work into it.

We listed our home in the OKC/DC/Edmond triangle area last Friday and accepted an offer on Sunday. We had lots of showings during that time.

I listed a house in Gatewood on Friday. 8 showings so far, 2 offers above ask and still have an open house today and a showing tomorrow. We are taking offers till Tuesday. It is a crazy market right now.

I'm still seeing lots of flip homes in my neighborhood bounded by May & Penn and I-44 & NW Expressway.

The signs are clear: a dumpster shows up, they almost always paint the brick white and the trim black, and put in new interior finishes.

Have been selling between $150 and $180 per SF, and the numbers keep going up.

The homes in the area are generally '60s ranchers which lend themselves well to opened floorplans, and the location is awesome. Really glad I bought here when I did; my house has now appreciated almost 50% in just 5 years, although I have put a bunch of work into it.

At least you are getting remodels. There's a guy in my neighborhood buying the sub-1200 square foot stock not even looking at whether or not it could be rehabbed, and building this garbage:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1112-NW-45th-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-73118/21856262_zpid/

I think there are at least 10 of these that have gone up between Classen and Western, 50th and 40th since the pandemic really got going. There are some slightly different facades but the guy won't even mirror the floor plan to make it look like it's not the exact same house. Cheap builder's grade material. Started out like 1,550 sq feet then realized he was selling the area short and went from selling new builds for $300k to $400k by tacking on an additional 200 square feet or so.

:(

At least you are getting remodels. There's a guy in my neighborhood buying the sub-1200 square foot stock not even looking at whether or not it could be rehabbed, and building this garbage:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1112-NW-45th-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-73118/21856262_zpid/

I think there are at least 10 of these that have gone up between Classen and Western, 50th and 40th since the pandemic really got going. There are some slightly different facades but the guy won't even mirror the floor plan to make it look like it's not the exact same house. Cheap builder's grade material. Started out like 1,550 sq feet then realized he was selling the area short and went from selling new builds for $300k to $400k by tacking on an additional 200 square feet or so.

:(

Yikes. That’s a great way to ruin a good neighborhood. Snout houses are a plague.

At least you are getting remodels. There's a guy in my neighborhood buying the sub-1200 square foot stock not even looking at whether or not it could be rehabbed, and building this garbage:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1112-NW-45th-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-73118/21856262_zpid/

I think there are at least 10 of these that have gone up between Classen and Western, 50th and 40th since the pandemic really got going. There are some slightly different facades but the guy won't even mirror the floor plan to make it look like it's not the exact same house. Cheap builder's grade material. Started out like 1,550 sq feet then realized he was selling the area short and went from selling new builds for $300k to $400k by tacking on an additional 200 square feet or so.

:(

As somebody who isn't and wasn't ever in the market to buy, what is wrong with this listing?

As somebody who isn't and wasn't ever in the market to buy, what is wrong with this listing?

They don’t like that the garage tends to dominate the frontage. And probably would prefer the owners park in the street.

As somebody who isn't and wasn't ever in the market to buy, what is wrong with this listing?

I won't speak for Teo and I've certainly seen much worse examples, but I can certainly understand the disappointment with such a suburban style of house—massive driveway, garage in front, etc—in an area like Helm Farm (in this example) that is full of historic Craftsmans and other bungalows, etc. It's inevitably out of place and doesn't mesh with the vibe and character of the existing homes.
16976

I won't speak for Teo and I've certainly seen much worse examples, but I can certainly understand the disappointment with such a suburban style of house—massive driveway, garage in front, etc—in an area like Helm Farm (in this example) that is full of historic Craftsmans and other bungalows, etc. It's inevitably out of place and doesn't mesh with the vibe and character of the existing homes.
16976

Ah yes, this is more understandable! THank you!

They don’t like that the garage tends to dominate the frontage. And probably would prefer the owners park in the street.

No need to park in the street - garage in back is just fine :)

And honestly if it wasn't literally as plain Jane as development could be, I wouldn't mind asich. There are more than a few new builds east of Western and west of Shatter between 45th and 42nd that show a way to make a more attractive house with a prominent garage in front.

I won't speak for Teo and I've certainly seen much worse examples, but I can certainly understand the disappointment with such a suburban style of house—massive driveway, garage in front, etc—in an area like Helm Farm (in this example) that is full of historic Craftsmans and other bungalows, etc. It's inevitably out of place and doesn't mesh with the vibe and character of the existing homes.
16976

Well, it's definitely going to mesh soon enough when they guy has built 40 of them in helm farm by the end of 2023 :lol2:

Has anyone had any experience with an ibuyer? Opendoor is offering well above what I thought would be possible and from what I can see it's a pretty good process. Just curious about others experience or insights.

They do that so they get in the door. Then HAMMER you on everything else once inspections are done.

They do that so they get in the door. Then HAMMER you on everything else once inspections are done.

Care to give a bit more details?

Seems like the office market in OKC is rebounding this year in 2021.

The Q2 2021 office market report showed a net absorption in all 3 classes. And Class A office space is down to 11.8 percent.

https://www.naisullivangroup.com/themarket

Moreover, there is not much Class A office space left downtown. Bancfirst is nearly full, Sandridge Building is now nearly full also.

BOK Park Plaza has 300,000 sqft of available space. Once that is gone, there will be no big square footage of office space available for a big company.

If a big company wanted to be downtown and wanted Class A more that what is offered at the BOK Park Plaza, they will have to build, or a developer will need to build spec.

I'm optimistic that will see a new Class A office building downtown before too long.

I wanted to move my company to the BOK building, but they required an absurd payment for parking in addition to the lease.

I wanted to move my company to the BOK building, but they required an absurd payment for parking in addition to the lease.

I don't think the rates for BOK will come down anytime soon. As the owners of the building are still getting paid. It's my understanding that 250,000 of the available 300,000 space is still being paid for by Devon, and they are trying to sublease it.

I don't think the rates for BOK will come down anytime soon. As the owners of the building are still getting paid. It's my understanding that 250,000 of the available 300,000 space is still being paid for by Devon, and they are trying to sublease it.

Devon owns the BOK building is my understanding. The property records show mailing address as the address of the Devon tower

Devon owns the BOK building is my understanding. The property records show mailing address as the address of the Devon tower

yep

I don't think the rates for BOK will come down anytime soon. As the owners of the building are still getting paid. It's my understanding that 250,000 of the available 300,000 space is still being paid for by Devon, and they are trying to sublease it.

To be clear, we the lease rates were fine—actually quite reasonable for us. The issue was a required, added parking per employee fee that in the aggregate would not have made sense for us. We also weren’t going to force our employees to pay for parking out of their own pocket.

To be clear, we the lease rates were fine—actually quite reasonable for us. The issue was a required, added parking per employee fee that in the aggregate would not have made sense for us. We also weren’t going to force our employees to pay for parking out of their own pocket.

You would think the parking fees would be included in the lease rates, geez....lol

Especially because they build two huge parking garages that are almost completely empty.

And the big Devon garage across the street is less than half full, as is the new city-owned Arts District garage.

Is Leadership Square filling up since Enable (and others) left?

I don't think Enable has completely left the building. yet.

I don't think Enable has completely left the building. yet.

Enable left Leadership Square in Summer of 2018.