Saw somewhere that homes sales for August were the worst they been in a long time. I know a lot of people refinance right now but is anyone buying right now?

It has been quite a bit slower than normal in August/September even given the seasonality. A lot of stuff is just sitting. On a national level it now appears that 2024 may be the fewest transactions ever recorded. Worse than the great recession years. I thought it would have picked up a bit by now vs last year given that rates are 1.5-2% lower but I think political uncertainty has everyone in a wait & see. Overall 23 & 24 are going to go down as historically bad years in terms of transactions.

It has been quite a bit slower than normal in August/September even given the seasonality. A lot of stuff is just sitting. On a national level it now appears that 2024 may be the fewest transactions ever recorded. Worse than the great recession years. I thought it would have picked up a bit by now vs last year given that rates are 1.5-2% lower but I think political uncertainty has everyone in a wait & see. Overall 23 & 24 are going to go down as historically bad years in terms of transactions.

Wouldn't that cause prices to go down some?

Wouldn't that cause prices to go down some?

There is downward pressure on prices for sure, many properties are selling for less and/or requiring buyer concessions due to the increased supply & lower demand at the moment.

There is a house down the street from me was listed for sale on 7/10/2024 at $499,900. It is a 3/3 2,783 sf built in 1929. On Saturday, they dropped the price down for the fourth time to $429,900.

Houses in my neighborhood are staying on the market longer but the $/SF keeps going up.

For nicely remodeled homes, prices are at least $180/SF and some have sold for over $200/SF.

Six years ago I bought my house for about $125/SF.

Houses in my neighborhood are staying on the market longer but the $/SF keeps going up.

For nicely remodeled homes, prices are at least $180/SF and some have sold for over $200/SF.

Six years ago I bought my house for about $125/SF.

Eight years ago we got ours for $88/SF (on Venice Blvd), supposedly valued around $125/SF now.

I think there are a lot of people still over leveraged on their homes. Gotta sell it at the right price to get out from under it.

And things like property taxes and home owners insurance that are based on home valuations will continue going up.

When I lived in our smaller house years ago, we saw our mortgage payment go up because our escrow went up. When I pulled the statement to find out why, our property taxes went up pretty substantially. I called Oklahoma County assessor and told them they have the size of our house and number of rooms wrong, which caused the increase. We had added a deck on the back and they thought it was a room and the usable square footage had changed so the price per sf changed as well. They said they could lower it, but it would lower the value of our house on the county assessor. I said I didn't care about that and so the next year, the property taxes went back down. I have told that to other people and most people said they don't think that would work now.

There is a house down the street from me was listed for sale on 7/10/2024 at $499,900. It is a 3/3 2,783 sf built in 1929. On Saturday, they dropped the price down for the fourth time to $429,900.

I think this comment would be very helpful if you are comfortable sharing what neighborhood you live in. Prices across different parts of OKC vary like crazy.

When I lived in our smaller house years ago, we saw our mortgage payment go up because our escrow went up. When I pulled the statement to find out why, our property taxes went up pretty substantially. I called Oklahoma County assessor and told them they have the size of our house and number of rooms wrong, which caused the increase. We had added a deck on the back and they thought it was a room and the usable square footage had changed so the price per sf changed as well. They said they could lower it, but it would lower the value of our house on the county assessor. I said I didn't care about that and so the next year, the property taxes went back down. I have told that to other people and most people said they don't think that would work now.

While your situation is different, this is not uncommon in general. A transaction triggers a revaluation from the Assessor. If the property was undervalued at say $100,000 before you purchased the property for $200,000, the Assessor will revalue the property at $200,000 effective the following tax year. So people pay their mortgage for the first 6+/- months with the taxes at the $100K valuation. Then, the following year their taxes go up substantially and they want to protest them with the Assessor. But then they have a hard time convincing the Assessor's office the property is worth less than they paid for it 6+/- months ago.

When I lived in our smaller house years ago, we saw our mortgage payment go up because our escrow went up. When I pulled the statement to find out why, our property taxes went up pretty substantially. I called Oklahoma County assessor and told them they have the size of our house and number of rooms wrong, which caused the increase. We had added a deck on the back and they thought it was a room and the usable square footage had changed so the price per sf changed as well. They said they could lower it, but it would lower the value of our house on the county assessor. I said I didn't care about that and so the next year, the property taxes went back down. I have told that to other people and most people said they don't think that would work now.

I mean it would work today if it were the same situation. They can't assess your home with square footage that doesn't exist. But you can't jus protest only because you don't like the tax.

What are some other web sites for estimated house valuations besides Zillow or the County Assessor?

I think this comment would be very helpful if you are comfortable sharing what neighborhood you live in. Prices across different parts of OKC vary like crazy.

Crestwood addition. It is bounded by NW 16th/NW 23rd, May/Villa.

While your situation is different, this is not uncommon in general. A transaction triggers a revaluation from the Assessor. If the property was undervalued at say $100,000 before you purchased the property for $200,000, the Assessor will revalue the property at $200,000 effective the following tax year. So people pay their mortgage for the first 6+/- months with the taxes at the $100K valuation. Then, the following year their taxes go up substantially and they want to protest them with the Assessor. But then they have a hard time convincing the Assessor's office the property is worth less than they paid for it 6+/- months ago.

I was thinking it was years after we bought it because we didn't build a deck until two years after we bought the house. We bought it in October of 2007 and built the deck in Summer of 2009. I noticed our taxes go up in 2010 when we got an escrow letter. Not sure if that helps or not.

Keep in mind that in Oklahoma County, your property tax cannot increase more than 3% a year, regardless of the increase in assessed value.

When you buy a new house, the new assessed value is then set very close to the purchase price.

I was thinking it was years after we bought it because we didn't build a deck until two years after we bought the house. We bought it in October of 2007 and built the deck in Summer of 2009. I noticed our taxes go up in 2010 when we got an escrow letter. Not sure if that helps or not.

I assume your increase was due to the incorrect classification of the deck. I'm just saying that in general this happens to people. A friend of mine in the Tulsa metro bought a house that was taxed as land only when he bought it and was shocked that his taxes went up so much. He asked me to look at it and I had to explain to him that the only way he could get his taxes lowered is if he could convince then that the property was worth less than he paid for it.

I just wanted to add this to the conversation for the benefit of first-time home buyers. Calculate your taxes based on what you will pay for the property, not historical taxes on the property.

I just wanted to add this to the conversation for the benefit of first-time home buyers. Calculate your taxes based on what you will pay for the property, not historical taxes on the property.

Absolutely right.

The Assessor list's both market value and taxable market value by year. Zillow has my market value at 281.4K which I think is stupid low, Assessor has my market value at 361.5K which is probably close to what's right and insurance requires me to carry 420K worth of insurance.

Also on new construction you want to make sure the lender has property taxes estimated not just the value of the lot.

I had a listing a few months ago where the sellers had bought brand new 2 years ago (closed in early 22) and there property taxes weren't reassessed until '23. Long story short between property taxes going from virtually nothing to $400/mo + homeowners insurance going crazy there payment went from like 1500 --> 2400 basically overnight so they had to sell the house.

I'm not sure how the lender didn't have taxes escrowed in, they seemed to be unaware of the fact and didn't have a large chunk down initially. I wasn't involved in the purchase & it was with a reputable local lender but I was shocked.

I'm hearing of people struggling to stay in their houses just from insurance increases alone.

Ya I shop home and car insurance yearly now. The increases were getting out of hand.

It'll only get worse.

Keep in mind that in Oklahoma County, your property tax cannot increase more than 3% a year, regardless of the increase in assessed value.

When you buy a new house, the new assessed value is then set very close to the purchase price.

I believe that it can if material improvements are made to the home.

So if you remodel a kitchen and do it by the book (i.e. you take out a permit), then they can reset your taxable value.

As we navigate election volatility and really a 2024 that nobody thought we would have I thought you guys might find this article interesting on the state of the overall market:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/04/homebuyer-average-age-rises-to-56-amid-rising-homeownership-costs.html

Average homebuyer is now 56 years old!

Median age of first time buyers moved up to 38!

And perhaps the most sobering statistic of all 1st time buyers now make up just 24% of the market, an all time low since that metric has been tracked since 1981!

2024 is setting all sorts of housing records in a bad way. Hopefully things get better after the election regardless of outcome.

The rapid appreciation is great if you own a home but makes it so hard for younger people to enter the market.

However, I will repeat this point yet again, there are plenty of affordable homes all around OKC as long as you don't expect to buy an Instagram dream home right out of the gate.

Plenty of good quality homes under 2,000 SF that can easily be renovated over time and most people can do a lot of the work themselves. It just seems very few people are willing to do this and instead want something fully renovated, and for that you are going to pay a lot more than you have to.

No doubt we are very fortunate that prices are still much cheaper here than most major cities so there's still plenty of opportunity. However, with the affordability challenges now we can clearly see the trend is to delay ownership several years or maybe even a decade or more. This of course has significant negative effects on net worth and financial security over time as people avoid buying. I think the average homeowner has something like 40x the net worth of a renter & I bet that gap is growing significantly over the last couple years and looking forward.

I'm glad my wife convinced me to spend a little more and buy a house we could raise a family in, back in 2013. Now we can stay here until the kids are out of the house then downsize and move out of Oklahoma.

I don't think we could afford the house we live in today if it sold for what it is worth now. Been 10 years of slowly upgrading and doing a little bit piece by piece. It has been a great learning experience.

No doubt we are very fortunate that prices are still much cheaper here than most major cities so there's still plenty of opportunity. However, with the affordability challenges now we can clearly see the trend is to delay ownership several years or maybe even a decade or more. This of course has significant negative effects on net worth and financial security over time as people avoid buying. I think the average homeowner has something like 40x the net worth of a renter & I bet that gap is growing significantly over the last couple years and looking forward.

This is exactly what has been going on in California and most larger metros, we're just late to the party because our housing costs have been so much lower.

What I always tell people is this: you have to enter the market, because it's only going to go up and owning will become increasingly difficult.

I broke down and did this in California after living there over 10 years. I hated the prices and didn't want to leave the beach, but while I was on the sidelines, things were getting worse right before my eyes.

I would look and then get completely depressed: the homes were super expensive, nowhere near the water, and far below my previous standards. I had to finally shift my expectations and I ended up buying a house in Thousand Oaks, which is pretty far out by L.A. standards, and it needed a lot of work. I literally moved from a bluff-top dream home in Malibu (which was just a rental) into a place with bad carpet, a cheap kitchen, and popcorn ceilings.

I cried like a baby and had enormous buyer's remorse.

But then I settled in, had a great view atop a hill, could walk to a small college that had a fantastic swim complex and workout facilities, had nearly unlimited open space right outside my door, and discovered T.O. was an incredibly nice place to live.

Over the 13 years I was there, I remodeled the entire place inside and out and did a ton of the work myself, like replacing all the interior doors, all the flooring, all the casings and baseboards, scraping ceilings, painting, landscaping, etc.

That house tripled in value in that time and by the time I left, I cried just as hard as when I left Malibu.


With a little creativity and elbow grease, you can have a really nice home in OKC that is affordable to almost everyone.

This is exactly what has been going on in California and most larger metros, we're just late to the party because our housing costs have been so much lower.

What I always tell people is this: you have to enter the market, because it's only going to go up and owning will become increasingly difficult.

I broke down and did this in California after living there over 10 years. I hated the prices and didn't want to leave the beach, but while I was on the sidelines, things were getting worse right before my eyes.

I would look and then get completely depressed: the homes were super expensive, nowhere near the water, and far below my previous standards. I had to finally shift my expectations and I ended up buying a house in Thousand Oaks, which is pretty far out by L.A. standards, and it needed a lot of work. I literally moved from a bluff-top dream home in Malibu (which was just a rental) into a place with bad carpet, a cheap kitchen, and popcorn ceilings.

I cried like a baby and had enormous buyer's remorse.

But then I settled in, had a great view atop a hill, could walk to a small college that had a fantastic swim complex and workout facilities, had nearly unlimited open space right outside my door, and discovered T.O. was an incredibly nice place to live.

Over the 13 years I was there, I remodeled the entire place inside and out and did a ton of the work myself, like replacing all the interior doors, all the flooring, all the casings and baseboards, scraping ceilings, painting, landscaping, etc.

That house tripled in value in that time and by the time I left, I cried just as hard as when I left Malibu.


With a little creativity and elbow grease, you can have a really nice home in OKC that is affordable to almost everyone.

Good stuff! I wish more people understood the sacrifice in the beginning but alas we're in an instant gratification world.

And perhaps the most sobering statistic of all 1st time buyers now make up just 24% of the market, an all time low since that metric has been tracked since 1981!


And it says 25% of those FTBs did it using a loan or gift from relatives. That is incredibly depressing for anyone under 40 that doesn't have a wealthy family.

Here in OKC where wages are low, it is essentially impossible to save for a home unless you fall into the wealthy family category or live dramatically under your means for a long time and save.

Good stuff! I wish more people understood the sacrifice in the beginning but alas we're in an instant gratification world.

It's certainly what people have always done in the past.

With the advent of HGTV and Instagram, now everyone wants the perfect place as their first home and feels entitled to nothing less. That's simply not how things work, unless you have rich parents who are willing to give you a lot of help.

In 1981 I was a first-time buyer in Edmond and was looking for a place that I could keep my horses. I found a 700 sq ft small 2 bed, 1 bath with a one wall kitchen. The house was solid built in the late 40s. It was not mine or anyone's dream house, but it was on 2 ac with outbuildings. It was just off of downtown and was wider then deep, great for future development. I kept it for 2 yrs, then sold it to a developer to divide up and put more starter homes on. I tripled my money in those 2 years. I was then able to buy my current 10 ac and build a bit larger home that has been my forever home also in Edmond. Point is that you look and find the deal that can be a springboard to what you want.

And it says 25% of those FTBs did it using a loan or gift from relatives. That is incredibly depressing for anyone under 40 that doesn't have a wealthy family.

Here in OKC where wages are low, it is essentially impossible to save for a home unless you fall into the wealthy family category or live dramatically under your means for a long time and save.

Yea it's fairly common for FTB's to get a gift or have a little help but many are able to still do it on their own. We've always had some sort of down payment assistance program as well. I think up until things got really crazy in '21 it was relatively easy and affordable to buy your first home in OKC especially from 09 on when we had a period of ultra low rates & a lot of years that didn't have strong demand.

That all changed in the 2nd quarter of '22 when affordability just went totally through the roof only to never go back down. Since wages haven't even come close to keeping up with housing inflation over the years & particularly since the pandemic it's a sobering reality for those still waiting to enter the market. I'm hopeful conditions will ease slightly next year and provide more opportunities.

All of that said though I still think home ownership here even at a young age is pretty doable if you're willing the make the sacrifices and live below your means in order to save money. It's not that hard to save 10k for closing costs in a modern economy like we have with all of the gig jobs & part-time opportunities. Especially if there are 2 of you it can be done if you buckle up. The problem now though apart from that is the income required to qualify compared to before. We didn't realize how easy things were before.

It's certainly what people have always done in the past.

With the advent of HGTV and Instagram, now everyone wants the perfect place as their first home and feels entitled to nothing less. That's simply not how things work, unless you have rich parents who are willing to give you a lot of help.

Yep, just like everyone driving a luxury car & still renting. You could have bought a starter home instead in many cases.

Yep, just like everyone driving a luxury car & still renting. You could have bought a starter home instead in many cases.

There are some pretty inexpensive apartments near me. Almost all the cars in the lots are newer and more expensive than the Lexus I drove for 21 years.

It also has to be said that younger generations don't seem to be as interested in home ownership. The whole "experiences are better than possessions" philosophy. That is all well and good, but what are you going to do when you are nearing 40, the housing market has gone way up in the last 15 years, and then you decide you want to buy and can't afford it? As it turns out, what they mainly do is complain and blame boomers.

Adding to the problem is ever-increasing college tuition destroys the income of young professionals if they (once again) did not come from wealth and had to take loans.

I am in my upper 30s and I still pay monthly for loans I took out when I was 18. Luckily the interest rate is extremely low, but it shows how long this sort of thing can haunt you when you start without money.

^

But then again, rather than take out monster loans, you can easily go to community college for the first two years (or even UCO), then transfer to OU or OSU to get your degree. You can also choose not to live in a very expensive fraternity or sorority house (they used to cost about the same as the dorms, but no more).

And frankly, it's downright silly to go to a private college unless you have a big scholarship. I went to school with people at Pepperdine who came out with well over $200K in debt, which just boggles the mind. And that's for a bachelor's degree. People that go to law school or med school at least have the prospect of earning that back.

But nobody wants to make these sacrifices, either.

There are some pretty inexpensive apartments near me. Almost all the cars in the lots are newer and more expensive than the Lexus I drove for 21 years.

It also has to be said that younger generations don't seem to be as interested in home ownership. The whole "experiences are better than possessions" philosophy. That is all well and good, but what are you going to do when you are nearing 40, the housing market has gone way up in the last 15 years, and then you decide you want to buy and can't afford it? As it turns out, what they mainly do is complain and blame boomers.

This is definitely part of it as well, YOLO. If only we taught high schoolers personal finance & housing education we would be so much better off. Not that everyone would apply the knowledge but at least they would have it.


Adding to the problem is ever-increasing college tuition destroys the income of young professionals if they (once again) did not come from wealth and had to take loans.

I am in my upper 30s and I still pay monthly for loans I took out when I was 18. Luckily the interest rate is extremely low, but it shows how long this sort of thing can haunt you when you start without money.

College tuition has gotten out of control relative to income potential in many cases. I think the whole scenario has to be re-thought if you're not going for something specialized that requires significant higher education. I don't think it's fair to pin it all on those who come from wealth however as there are lots of examples of people who did it without family help. I've helped quite a few younger 20's buyers during my real estate career who did it without help. That was my story as well, I saved $10k first year out of college, lived dirt cheap other than I did buy a nice car but I was still able to swing both & bought in 09. I graduated in 08. To your point about the student loans though yes those can be debilitating. I wanted to get my MBA after undergrad but ultimately decided against going back because student loans was my only option. While disappointing to me at the time and honestly for awhile down the road now that I am where I am very glad I didn't do it.

I waited seven years after getting my bachelor's before going to MBA school.

I had long paid off my student loans from undergrad and spent a lot of time negotiating with schools on costs. Ironically, my three finalists were all private schools because they all offered the best value, and it was only because I worked them. I paid 100% of my way through both undergrad and grad school.

When I started at Pepperdine, I quickly found out I had the best deal of anyone in my section. Some of them didn't get any help at all and it was hard to feel for them when they racked up huge student loans. I never would have done that unless I had gotten into Stanford or one of the Ivies, where starting salaries would be large enough to justify the outlay.

For both my degrees, I had to strongly weigh the cost versus return long before starting. Almost nobody does that anymore; just rack up huge debt and worry about it later.

Yea you're talking astronomical sums of money for places like that. Unless your family is wealthy enough to pay your way & gift you the experience it makes no literal sense.

This is exactly what has been going on in California and most larger metros, we're just late to the party because our housing costs have been so much lower.

What I always tell people is this: you have to enter the market, because it's only going to go up and owning will become increasingly difficult.

I broke down and did this in California after living there over 10 years. I hated the prices and didn't want to leave the beach, but while I was on the sidelines, things were getting worse right before my eyes.

I would look and then get completely depressed: the homes were super expensive, nowhere near the water, and far below my previous standards. I had to finally shift my expectations and I ended up buying a house in Thousand Oaks, which is pretty far out by L.A. standards, and it needed a lot of work. I literally moved from a bluff-top dream home in Malibu (which was just a rental) into a place with bad carpet, a cheap kitchen, and popcorn ceilings.

I cried like a baby and had enormous buyer's remorse.

But then I settled in, had a great view atop a hill, could walk to a small college that had a fantastic swim complex and workout facilities, had nearly unlimited open space right outside my door, and discovered T.O. was an incredibly nice place to live.

Over the 13 years I was there, I remodeled the entire place inside and out and did a ton of the work myself, like replacing all the interior doors, all the flooring, all the casings and baseboards, scraping ceilings, painting, landscaping, etc.

That house tripled in value in that time and by the time I left, I cried just as hard as when I left Malibu.


With a little creativity and elbow grease, you can have a really nice home in OKC that is affordable to almost everyone.

I recall reading that Tom Selleck has his ranch in (or near) Thousand Oaks. He bought it from Dean Martin in the late 1980s, IIRC.

Yea you're talking astronomical sums of money for places like that. Unless your family is wealthy enough to pay your way & gift you the experience it makes no literal sense.

At private colleges, there are the rich kids whose parents pay for everything. The schools need them because they pay full freight.

Then there are the scholarship kids, and they need them too to pad their stats and help their overall rating.

If you don't fit into one of those categories, you are going to come out with hundreds of thousands in debt, and it's just an irresponsible thing to do.

I recall reading that Tom Selleck has his ranch in (or near) Thousand Oaks. He bought it from Dean Martin in the late 1980s, IIRC.

There are parts of T.O. that are super expensive. Pamela Anderson, Brittany Spears, a bunch of others live very close, like the Kardashians and Justin Bieber. There are some massive estates on big acreages.

In my relatively modest neighborhood, my only famous nearby neighbor was Sparky Anderson! Incredibly nice man and I'd see him out walking all the time.


Now, when I lived in Malibu, that was a different story. Every current and former movie star has a place out there, and many have another close to the Hollywood studios. There was only one major grocery store, one theater. I saw dozens and dozens of celebs all the time. There was only one that stopped me in my tracks: Jane Seymour of all people. I never thought she was that pretty even though she routinely made the 'most beautiful' lists. But in person (right beside me in a movie line), she's just stunning in a way that is hard to describe. Most celebrities look worse in person, she somehow looked way better.

While I'm playing TMZ, I will add that there was one other actress who just floored me: Tiffani Amber Theissen. Yes, from Saved by the Bell and BH 90210. In fact, I also met Jennfier Anniston and Courtney Cox at the same event and found neither that striking. Tiffani is the prettiest woman I've ever seen.

And predictably, Matthew McConaughey is a complete jackass.

3% mortgage rates spoiled too many people to think they can only afford to buy a house if rates are that low. Those rates were the exception not the norm for the majority of my life and I'm 69. I've said it before I bought my first house which was a 1160 sq ft house, 3 bdrm 1 1/2 bath 2 car garage slab floor central heat and air when I had just turned 23 on a 9 1/2% 30 year mortgage because that is just what rates were. I was not some college educated degreed person. I had an entry level factory production union worker job. I was single so a single earner household. I stayed in that house 19 years. The last 6 years with a wife and 2 step kids. Then bought a house on a 7 1/8% 15 year mortgage and thought that was a great rate compared to what I had.

Sounds like you bought just before things went crazy soon in the early 80's.

Although I wasn't alive yet the only time modern affordability has been this low was early 80's when the rates were astronomical in the high teens. My dad still talks about the oil bust and penn square bank collapse. Being a home builder was about the worst thing on the planet at the time.

It has been a very tough few years for buyers though, I certainly feel for the modern conditions. Affordability is at once in a generation lows all around & might not get any better. But it doesn't change anything with respect to real estate. It's still going to do what it does over the long term and the prices will just continue to go up. Especially in a hot growth market like OKC. We get a lot of mentions around the country on different things I listen to & read as far as real estate investing, affordability, etc. I just hope we're not doomed to a low growth high rate environment permanently. So much depends on our governments fiscal policy & treasury yields.

I purchased that first house in May of 1978 for $35500 and sold it in 1996 for $59000. I just ran that $35500 through 2 inflation calculators and they put that 1978 $35500 at $173000 today. And Zillow has that house valued at $171100 today so pretty much just followed normal inflation rate since 1978. It sold again in 2022 for $116000. But my point was Pete said to look for a starter house under 2000 sq ft when a nice little house like that makes a great starter house for a first time buyer. This is the house.
https://www.zillow.com/homes/5372-NW-45th-St-Warr-Acres,-OK-73122_rb/22036611_zpid/

Thanks for sharing that, pretty cool to trace it back to 1978. Plenty of those out there still to the point. I think the most interesting part of that is you had it nearly 20 years and it went up slightly over 1,000/year which was the average inflation rate but in context to today doesn't seem like much. The baseline prices have gone up tremendously over the decades & we just got basically a decades worth of normal appreciation in a couple years. Rates were way higher back then but the prices were so much lower.

But if the current value today is about the same counting for inflation were the prices on a house like that really that much lower then. And I think I was making around $5.50/hr so maybe $12k/year. If I remember the payment just P&I not counting insurance and taxes was $279/mo.

Curious if you are seeing Property Taxes and Insurance costs effecting people being able to afford buying houses. My house is paid for but just the taxes and insurance is running about $650/mo and it's going up every year. You start adding those amounts on top of the P&I payment and I can see affordability being an issue.

But if the current value today is about the same counting for inflation were the prices on a house like that really that much lower then. And I think I was making around $5.50/hr so maybe $12k/year. If I remember the payment just P&I not counting insurance and taxes was $279/mo.

The answer is yes since mid 22. Wage growth hasn’t nearly kept up with home price growth over the last couple decades. It wasn’t that exacerbated during the ultra low rate period but now that we’ve got restrictive rates by modern standards we have record low affordability only rivaled by early 80’s oil bust from everything I’ve read. That’s to say these last couple years may actually have been the hardest years on record to buy.


Curious if you are seeing Property Taxes and Insurance costs effecting people being able to afford buying houses. My house is paid for but just the taxes and insurance is running about $650/mo and it's going up every year. You start adding those amounts on top of the P&I payment and I can see affordability being an issue.

Yea that’s part of the problem for sure, I’ve had people sell this year because payments went up so much in a short period. The final inflation dagger as taxes & insurance costs have now been fully realized. It also causes the closing costs to go up because of escrows.

3% mortgage rates spoiled too many people to think they can only afford to buy a house if rates are that low. Those rates were the exception not the norm for the majority of my life and I'm 69. I've said it before I bought my first house which was a 1160 sq ft house, 3 bdrm 1 1/2 bath 2 car garage slab floor central heat and air when I had just turned 23 on a 9 1/2% 30 year mortgage because that is just what rates were. I was not some college educated degreed person. I had an entry level factory production union worker job. I was single so a single earner household. I stayed in that house 19 years. The last 6 years with a wife and 2 step kids. Then bought a house on a 7 1/8% 15 year mortgage and thought that was a great rate compared to what I had.

The thing about interest rates is they can change affordable very quickly because they are tied to long term loans. Now in 2020 the average wage in the Oklahoma was around 53k. The average cost of a house in 2020 was 134k. The average mortgage rate in 2020 was 3.15%.

In 2024 the income is around 54k, the house cost is 207k, and the interest rate is 7%. It is obvious that home ownership has become more expensive over the last four years. There are many factors but OKCTalk is not a political form. I just feel for the young people today.

The thing about interest rates is they can change affordable very quickly because they are tied to long term loans. Now in 2020 the average wage in the Oklahoma was around 53k. The average cost of a house in 2020 was 134k. The average mortgage rate in 2020 was 3.15%.

In 2024 the income is around 54k, the house cost is 207k, and the interest rate is 7%. It is obvious that home ownership has become more expensive over the last four years. There are many factors but OKCTalk is not a political form. I just feel for the young people today.

You forgot to say something about the high cost of homeowner's insurance today. The cost can sure raise up your mortgage payment. I am retired and no debt, but my auto and home insurance rates are sky high due to all the hail and damage claims of others. Also if you figure in the cost of vehicle ownership which is a necessity for most in the metro, high cost of other things like food, day care etc. the overall ability to afford a home is getting tough for the younger generations. My 3 cents.

I currently rent a house in an older neighborhood with what most would consider to be starter homes. If I were to buy a home in my neighborhood (and one that needed some pretty big updates), after taxes and insurance at current interest rates I would pay about $600 a month more than I currently pay in rent.

So for the privilege of owning a home, I would need to not only pay more per month but also then come up with the money to update a house. Let alone deal with the normal maintenance that comes with owning a home built in the 40s or 50s.

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You need to factor in the tax deductions -- which are substantial -- and appreciation.

Also, rents go up but a mortgage is usually fixed for 30 years.

Most people start in homes that need updates and don't expect to do them right away. They do them over time as the house appreciates and you can always get a long-term loan to do that type of work. You can also do a ton of things yourself without spending a lot of money.


The entire U.S. economy and taxation system strongly favors property ownership. And the longer you sit on the sidelines, the more it is going to cost you in the future.

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The government literally helps you make a good chunk of the payment. Mortgage interest & property taxes alone are a huge write off. Renting for anything more than a couple years is absolutely detrimental to wealth creation in most cases.

You can also write off various other improvements & upgrades as well, given their is no capital gains on a primary residence until after $250k or $500k if married that means all of the money & investment into the property grow tax free. This is huge.

There are only tax deductions for home ownership if you itemize your deductions. 90% of tax payers take the standard deduction, and see no tax benefit from owning a home.

And while rents go up, I would argue that a mortgage payment does as well. While the principal and interest are fixed, taxes and insurance are not. Insurance rates have increased nearly 40% since 2019, and taxes can increase substantially when a home is sold for far more than it previously sold for. An escrow shortage compounds the issue and (temporarily) raises the payment even further. I know multiple people that have been forced to sell because they simply can't afford the increase in their monthly payment.

I am fortunate enough that I could afford to purchase a home if I wanted to. But I have no idea how the average family earning $55k a year is supposed to be able to do it.

Median household income in OK: $62000
Median mortgage payment in OK: $1700

Using 50/30/20 rule for that median person in OK:
$18600 on rent allowed per year which is 1550 per month.

So no, this person according to best budget practices, should not purchase a home.

Median household income in OK: $62000
Median mortgage payment in OK: $1700

Using 50/30/20 rule for that median person in OK:
$18600 on rent allowed per year which is 1550 per month.

So no, this person according to best budget practices, should not purchase a home.

I don't understand your point... Why wouldn't this person pay almost the same in mortgage cost ($1,700) vs. throwing their money away on rent ($1,550)?

The net cost after taxes would be less on the mortgage plus the endless benefits of owning as have been outlined.

And for $1,700/month you can buy a home for about $200K, and there are plenty of those around. Would be a lot better living situation than an apartment at that same price.

I don't understand your point... Why wouldn't this person pay almost the same in mortgage cost ($1,700) vs. throwing their money away on rent ($1,550)?

The net cost after taxes would be less on the mortgage plus the endless benefits of owning as have been outlined.

And for $1,700/month you can buy a home for about $200K, and there are plenty of those around. Would be a lot better living situation than an apartment at that same price.

I'd guess the hidden costs of home ownership. Insurance, property tax and repairs are expensive. Rent has that all wrapped into one.