Density = greater affordability. The city has already paid to have sewer and water run to this area, so more neighborhoods are coming sooner or later.

most of this area is on wells ..

most of this area is on wells ..
Right, I’m saying their wells won’t be affected by new neighborhoods…

I bet people in Gaillardia think Oakdale is the slums. Take that slightly less rich people!

Side note: I did feel like the 'poor kid' at Westmoore High School even though I lived in a middle class neighborhood. lol

It's funny we are talking about this because yesterday, I just drove by a flip house I had considered when I first moved back.

It was a pretty little bungalow that had been remodeled but I could tell it was out of level and that the outside paint had just been slapped on over the badly pealing coat underneath. It ended up quickly selling so I never made an offer.

When I went by yesterday, it was a complete disaster. I should have taken a photo. They had all types of heavy machinery out there and the fence wasn't just down but completely gone -- maybe the foundation had finally given out? But even the cosmetics -- including the paint -- looked horrible. Now that I think about it, they may be planning to tear it down and rebuild as is happening all around (this is on 41st between Classen & Western).

This was the sales photo from about 5 years ago and now the entire place is in shambles. I looked it up and found the property recently sold for significantly less than what had been paid right after the remodel, so something must have gone catastrophically wrong... Beware of the flip house!

https://photos.zillowstatic.com/fp/b72a5e9e85e7ebdd1fe7995cd9cd6a63-uncropped_scaled_within_1536_1152.webp

A demolition permit was just filed for this house.

Since it's on a corner, I bet they put 2 new homes on this lot.

i usually don't judge people's style choices, but this listing...
17405 Hawks View Ct, Edmond, OK 73012 | MLS #1063959 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17405-Hawks-View-Ct-Edmond-OK-73012/69164911_zpid/?)

i usually don't judge people's style choices, but this listing...
17405 Hawks View Ct, Edmond, OK 73012 | MLS #1063959 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17405-Hawks-View-Ct-Edmond-OK-73012/69164911_zpid/?)OMG! My EYES! That is waaaay over the top.

i usually don't judge people's style choices, but this listing...
17405 Hawks View Ct, Edmond, OK 73012 | MLS #1063959 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17405-Hawks-View-Ct-Edmond-OK-73012/69164911_zpid/?)

that was literally painful to view

Those pictures almost look color enhanced. If you look at the house exterior pics on the OK County Assessor site it looks different. But even at that the interior looks so cluttered.

Those pictures almost look color enhanced. If you look at the house exterior pics on the OK County Assessor site it looks different. But even at that the interior looks so cluttered.

Maybe that's why their moving. They want an 8,000 sq foot house.

The real estate agent probably had to trend carefully on their recommendations on how to maximize their sale as to not offend them. lol

Those pictures almost look color enhanced. If you look at the house exterior pics on the OK County Assessor site it looks different. But even at that the interior looks so cluttered.

It's done with HDR photos, which is the way lots of real estate photos are done now. Makes it present better.

All of the money in the world can’t buy good taste

All of the money in the world can’t buy good taste

I heard he is big at Walt Disney.

Trying to rock those Alice in Wonderland vibes.

I always thought you were supposed to unclutter your house for sale to make it more appealing to potential buyers.

i usually don't judge people's style choices, but this listing...
17405 Hawks View Ct, Edmond, OK 73012 | MLS #1063959 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17405-Hawks-View-Ct-Edmond-OK-73012/69164911_zpid/?)

I kind of love it. Not for me of course.

Saw a chart that showed 1 million short-term rentals (Airbnb, VRBO, etc.) vs. 550,000 active home listings nationwide......Some say the short-term rental market is imploding in larger cities. How is it going here in OKC?

We have to be very close to being over-saturated here in OKC.

There are tons of them around and the ones I go by on a frequent basis rarely seem to have occupants.

Some cities are limiting the number of short-term rentals in an effort to flip some housing back to long-term. Has there been any similar talk in OKC?

The AirBnB across the street from me stays rented out continuously. It is a huge 3000 sq ft house that advertises Huge Centrally located Okc remodeled Cabin Style Home. Perfect for Entertaining any occasion. Home sleeps up to 15 guests. Home has 4 bedrooms 10 beds 3 Living rooms, 3 Bathrooms, big jacuzzi tub w/ Tv, 2 Dining Rooms, 2 Bars, Updated Kitchen, a Game room, Gym, Laundry room & Kobe Inspired Office. Located just 8 miles from the Airport & Downtown Okc. This home has something for everyone. Its extremely unique and you wont find anything like it.. The people that checked out this morning were there for a week.

The AirBnB across the street from me stays rented out continuously. It is a huge 3000 sq ft house that advertises Huge Centrally located Okc remodeled Cabin Style Home. Perfect for Entertaining any occasion. Home sleeps up to 15 guests. Home has 4 bedrooms 10 beds 3 Living rooms, 3 Bathrooms, big jacuzzi tub w/ Tv, 2 Dining Rooms, 2 Bars, Updated Kitchen, a Game room, Gym, Laundry room & Kobe Inspired Office. Located just 8 miles from the Airport & Downtown Okc. This home has something for everyone. Its extremely unique and you wont find anything like it.. The people that checked out this morning were there for a week.

​My family get a large AirBnB like that every few months for a family get together.

It is so much easier than going to someone's house. Any not all of us have houses that can accommodate all like 15 of us without air mattresses, etc. Plus, this way, no one has to do a full-house panic clean or baby-proof for the nieces/nephews. After the costs are split 5 ways, it's usually only like $250.

The AirBnB across the street from me stays rented out continuously. It is a huge 3000 sq ft house that advertises Huge Centrally located Okc remodeled Cabin Style Home. Perfect for Entertaining any occasion. Home sleeps up to 15 guests. Home has 4 bedrooms 10 beds 3 Living rooms, 3 Bathrooms, big jacuzzi tub w/ Tv, 2 Dining Rooms, 2 Bars, Updated Kitchen, a Game room, Gym, Laundry room & Kobe Inspired Office. Located just 8 miles from the Airport & Downtown Okc. This home has something for everyone. Its extremely unique and you wont find anything like it.. The people that checked out this morning were there for a week.

Not to go down a rabbit hole but this house has 3000 Square feet and in addition to 4 bedrooms, it has 3 living rooms, 2 dining rooms, a game room, a gym and an office among other rooms? I'm confused. Is the 3000 SF a misprint? Is it really like 6000 SF?

County Assessor has it listed at 3363 sq ft. It's a really weird floor plan and 2 story. We were in it when the previous owner was having an estate sale right before he sold it. The original garage was converted to the main house then an new garage added on. The new owner who converted it to an AirBnB turned the new garage into the gym area with TVs and beds we see when the garage doors are open. I don't thing that new 2 car garage area is considered in the assessor's sq ft totals.

He paid 260K for it and spent an entire year remodeling it. We haven't been in it since the remodel but I'm guessing from the pics of the inside he spent at least another 100K if not more. It didn't look anything like this when we were in it before the sale.
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/53313025?adults=2&children=0&enable_m3_private_room=true&infants=0&pets=0&check_in=2023-07-09&check_out=2023-07-14&source_impression_id=p3_1687984230_%2FZbXVWI4UgskF ugx&previous_page_section_name=1000&federated_search_id=ae933157-8402-47a2-9235-c804f9b63427

Some cities are limiting the number of short-term rentals in an effort to flip some housing back to long-term. Has there been any similar talk in OKC?

I have two STRs. One in Gatewood and one in Crestwood. When we applied for our city licenses last year, there was a lot of discussion from the board about numbers around and saturation. What was disappointing is they were using VRBO and AirBnB maps to show the number of STRs in the area of which most are unlicensed. Thus the people trying to be legal are penalized by the city's lack of enforcement of their rules. If you are going to use that data...then use it to enforce the licensing laws and shut the unlicensed ones down.

We have to be very close to being over-saturated here in OKC.

There are tons of them around and the ones I go by on a frequent basis rarely seem to have occupants.

Let's hope so. This is a trend I would like to see abate.

I have to think it is better for a city for travelers to stay in hotels rather than Air B&Bs.

With an Air B&B, a family is likely to bring food with them or buy it in a grocery store. In a hotel you're going out to eat most of your meals. Also, rather than doing a lot of "hanging around your house," you're more likely to be taking advantage of public spaces, like parks, museums or shops.

Maybe this is anecdotal but I have had both types of vacations and I know we have spent more, and visited more of the city's attractions, when we have been in hotels as opposed to rented houses.

I hate AirBnB's. The massive amount of fees, hosts that think "good customer service" is texting you everyday, inconsistent product, begging for good reviews, no rewards.

Back to hotels only for me

STRs have a place and purpose. I spent about 75 nights last year in hotels and maybe 2 weeks in STR. We use STRs for vacation rentals at the beach where they make sense with large group. When travelling as a couple or by myself...always a hotel. as usually cheaper, known product versus some unknown host and usually less fees but hotels still have hidden fees also (Parking, resort fee, internet, etc). Most of our rentals are for a week or longer and tend to be professional people here for work and want something more comfortable than a hotel room after working all day. My daughter is doing an internship in Durant this summer and was far safer, comfortable and economical to put her in a STR for the two months she is there versus a hotel room.

As far as what is does to the real estate market....kind of a two edge sword. Most strs that are successful are well kept up and maintained which helps but the in and out of people prevents knowing your neighbors

That being said....I am on some host listserves and there are some real crazies out there who should not be in the hospitality business.

I hate AirBnB's. The massive amount of fees, hosts that think "good customer service" is texting you everyday, inconsistent product, begging for good reviews, no rewards.

Back to hotels only for me

This is how I feel as well. The no rewards is a big one, but for me one thing is safety and security in a hotel vs a AirBNB. Seen way to many pretty and dolled up pictures only to get there and you are surrounded by all sorts of sketch.

I hate AirBnB's. The massive amount of fees, hosts that think "good customer service" is texting you everyday, inconsistent product, begging for good reviews, no rewards.

Back to hotels only for me

I was big into AirBNB when it first came out. The novelty and convenience of it was great. $50 for a room by the beach? Deal. No corporate check in/check out schedule.

Then it turned into $299/night plus $100 in fees. Paying a cleaning fee, and then expecting to clean the room before leaving is completely asinine. I don’t trash rooms, and I will always do a quick tidy before checking out of any hotel. But I’m not washing the bedding or sweeping the floors. I haven’t even considered, let alone looked at AirBNB in years. I can get a hotel for just as cheap, and know with great certainty that it will actually have privacy, I’ve stayed at some AirBNB’s where I could just feel the eyeballs on me in the shower, or while changing in my room, etc. just some weird vibes from some of my stays. Like, yep there’s definitely a false mirror in here or a hidden camera.

I hate AirBnB's. The massive amount of fees, hosts that think "good customer service" is texting you everyday, inconsistent product, begging for good reviews, no rewards.

Back to hotels only for me

Right there with you.

We used to use them when we visited NYC before the city enacted a lot of restrictions. It made sense then. But now, it's often more expensive to stay in an AirBnB with fewer amenities for the traveler.

And, to your point, there are often myriad quirks involved, not to mention often landing in neighborhoods that aren't all that great. Nothing to walk to. Stuck in weird residential areas. No cable or satellite TV options, and on and on.

I realize there are many stellar Airbnbs out there but once you add the cleaning fees, booking fees, etc. you are going to pay dearly for them.

My biggest issue is they take important housing stock away from would-be residents. When we have a housing affordability crisis this is not good for the community.

We have a large one on our street with several bedrooms and a pool. It's a great destination for parties or large reunions, but it's hell for the neighbors who live next door. Most are elderly and afraid to notify the authorities when things get out of hand. And, regarding licensing, the property is properly licensed, kept up well, etc. It still sucks for the people who live next to it. We know this because they tell us.

Yeah Airbnbs definitely have its place and can be more expensive if you’re traveling as a couple or small group. But if you’re going somewhere as a large family or group of friends, it’s almost a no brainer financially. Plus, many families enjoy cooking and then eating/hanging out in a common space. Almost impossible to do this with hotels. If just my wife and I are vacationing anywhere, we’ll likely never utilize Airbnb. If my wife and I are planning a vacation for a large group, we’ll likely look at Airbnb first.

with mortgage rates pushing 8% now on a 30 year loan how are things going in the area. Saw this on old twitter: The housing market affordability index is now ~10% BELOW the 2006 lows.

This is officially the least affordable housing market in US history.

Mortgage rates in many states are approaching 8% and the median house now costs 560% of the median income.

In 2008, the median home price was 360% of the median income.

Even if home prices fell 30% from current levels, affordability would STILL be worse than pre-pandemic.

I'm trying to sell my house in Shepherd and it's been tough going. Only 15 showings in 2 months. The market requires patience at this point.

with mortgage rates pushing 8% now on a 30 year loan how are things going in the area. Saw this on old twitter: The housing market affordability index is now ~10% BELOW the 2006 lows.

This is officially the least affordable housing market in US history.

Mortgage rates in many states are approaching 8% and the median house now costs 560% of the median income.

In 2008, the median home price was 360% of the median income.

Even if home prices fell 30% from current levels, affordability would STILL be worse than pre-pandemic.

It’s a pretty rough market right now, imo. The sellers definitely missed the window where top dollar was still available (May - July 2022).

I was big into AirBNB when it first came out. The novelty and convenience of it was great. $50 for a room by the beach? Deal. No corporate check in/check out schedule.

Then it turned into $299/night plus $100 in fees. Paying a cleaning fee, and then expecting to clean the room before leaving is completely asinine. I don’t trash rooms, and I will always do a quick tidy before checking out of any hotel. But I’m not washing the bedding or sweeping the floors. I haven’t even considered, let alone looked at AirBNB in years. I can get a hotel for just as cheap, and know with great certainty that it will actually have privacy, I’ve stayed at some AirBNB’s where I could just feel the eyeballs on me in the shower, or while changing in my room, etc. just some weird vibes from some of my stays. Like, yep there’s definitely a false mirror in here or a hidden camera.

Agreed. Have used a few times in the past, but won't anymore. Cheaper than hotels sure, but you want me to work for my discount while I am on vacation- no thank you. Just like self check out lanes at the grocery store- I don't get a discount for being my own cashier, and I hate to do that as well. I know I sound like an old man on the porch and that is ok. "Get off my lawn!"

Things have definitely slowed in August, part of that is seasonal with schools going back, happens every year. Seeing lots of price decreases. New builds in particular. It really depends on what & where now. Median days on the market is still remarkably just 10, up from 9 days the previous month. Average DOM is over 3x that.

We had 5 straight months of price increases this year to new all time highs from Feb-June while July stayed flat. August remains to be seen if they hold or not. Both the financial markets and housing market were experiencing some very similar things at this time last year. Prices ultimately dipped from August - through end of last year before recovering and hitting new highs this year. As long as the bond markets are in turmoil and the 10 year keeps rising we could very well be in for a repeat this year. Prices may dip a little but don't think much as long as people have jobs before ultimately starting a sustained recovery next year into what should be a better market with rates likely to start going the other way at some point in next 12 months.

For the cash buyers this is a great time to be thinking about doing something. I think real estate prices may be the lowest we ever see them again at some point in the next 6 months. There is still so much demand that when rates do finally go back down we should have a ton of people moving and hoping to buy.

It looks like the fastest movers are the homes in the $250,000 to $350,000 range.

That seems to be just about the minimum cost for an at least mostly redone 3BD 2BA in a decent location.

Does this sound about right to others?

It looks like the fastest movers are the homes in the $250,000 to $350,000 range.

That seems to be just about the minimum cost for an at least mostly redone 3BD 2BA in a decent location.

Does this sound about right to others?

That's exactly what I'm seeing. Homes about $400 seem to be sitting longer than they had been just 6 months ago.

...I think real estate prices may be the lowest we ever see them again at some point in the next 6 months. There is still so much demand that when rates do finally go back down we should have a ton of people moving and hoping to buy.

Really? Surely the cost of entry into a home will go back down to some extent, right? I'm sitting on cash and scoping rental opportunities but I've been sitting tight until prices start to fall. They only seem to go up so far.

Really? Surely the cost of entry into a home will go back down to some extent, right? I'm sitting on cash and scoping rental opportunities but I've been sitting tight until prices start to fall. They only seem to go up so far.

Unless we start to see a lot of layoffs and people are forced to sell it's hard to see them dipping much which doesn't appear likely. People will just sit tight on their 2-4% mortgages while more people are forced to remain renters or have to wait longer to become first time buyers. From an investor standpoint it would be nice if they dipped but supply would have to be greater than demand and we are still nowhere near that. Demand is still very strong under 250k everywhere. That doesn't mean you won't find a better deal in a slower market this Fall/Winter but I wouldn't expect any pullback to last long. Economy is still very healthy and people have good jobs.

Last Monday the Edmond city council received the results of a housing needs assessment. One of the main things that was brought out was the need for affordable housing for low and middle income people. It said that housing in Edmond was affordable for 75% of the people who work in Edmond. This set off a fire storm from people at the council meeting. I guess with the current cost of housing both rental and ownership is being pushed out of the realm for alot of people. I dont think this is only the case for Edmond. Thoughts on "affordable housing". I personally live on an acreage in a smaller home, I am set except that Edmond is or is about to grow up to me. Ok just want folks 3 cents on this. My thought is for builders to build smaller homes on smaller lots for first time home buyers. I mean like the post ww 2 homes, 2bed, 1 bath or 11/2 bath, maybe with a convertable attic area that could become another bedroom and bath, with prebuilt stairs going up. Thoughts???
or maybe even 1 bed, 1 bath starters too.

Unless we start to see a lot of layoffs and people are forced to sell it's hard to see them dipping much which doesn't appear likely. People will just sit tight on their 2-4% mortgages while more people are forced to remain renters or have to wait longer to become first time buyers. From an investor standpoint it would be nice if they dipped but supply would have to be greater than demand and we are still nowhere near that. Demand is still very strong under 250k everywhere. That doesn't mean you won't find a better deal in a slower market this Fall/Winter but I wouldn't expect any pullback to last long. Economy is still very healthy and people have good jobs.

I would like to sale my home and move into something nicer but I'm sitting at 3.25% no way I'm moving into a home at 7%.

I would like to sale my home and move into something nicer but I'm sitting at 3.25% no way I'm moving into a home at 7%.

Exactly. This is a big reason behind the supply shortage and one of the reasons why it won't improve until the rates come back down some.

That said there are some folks who still will if they have plenty of equity to roll or can get a rate buy down of at least a couple %. New homes offering big incentives & rate buy downs in a lot of situations right now. Most lenders are offering a "free" re-fi waiving the lender charges for when the rates go down people who buy now can take advantage later.

We purchased a home recently at 6.25% and it will feel like getting a raise if I can ever refinance to something in the 4s or lower. Earlier this year it felt like we were racing to get the rate locked in before they went up again. Seems like rates will hover around here for awhile unless someone knows something I don't.

We purchased a home recently at 6.25% and it will feel like getting a raise if I can ever refinance to something in the 4s or lower. Earlier this year it felt like we were racing to get the rate locked in before they went up again. Seems like rates will hover around here for awhile unless someone knows something I don't.

Good for you, I think you'll get that chance in 2025. You're also building equity vs renting in the meantime and will have locked in any price gains that are surely to come when rates do go back down. One way or the other when you're financing real estate it's almost always to cheaper to buy in the present vs wait if the other option is renting. When rates do go back down some it won't be surprising at all if prices are up significantly to match the demand. We have years of pent up demand on hand.

Last Monday the Edmond city council received the results of a housing needs assessment. One of the main things that was brought out was the need for affordable housing for low and middle income people. It said that housing in Edmond was affordable for 75% of the people who work in Edmond. This set off a fire storm from people at the council meeting. I guess with the current cost of housing both rental and ownership is being pushed out of the realm for alot of people. I dont think this is only the case for Edmond. Thoughts on "affordable housing". I personally live on an acreage in a smaller home, I am set except that Edmond is or is about to grow up to me. Ok just want folks 3 cents on this. My thought is for builders to build smaller homes on smaller lots for first time home buyers. I mean like the post ww 2 homes, 2bed, 1 bath or 11/2 bath, maybe with a convertable attic area that could become another bedroom and bath, with prebuilt stairs going up. Thoughts???
or maybe even 1 bed, 1 bath starters too.

I think you meant its UNaffordable for 75% of the people who work in Edmond.

Not surprisingly, several people got up to protest as if they will be harmed from any of this. Some even think this is some kind of government handout. It was just a study showing that Edmond needs to allow and approve all different types of housing. Basically get government and NIMBYs out of the way and let the free market work. Big homes on acreages, small starter homes, condos, apartments...let them get built when someone wants to build them. Thats all this study is trying to say.

Last Monday the Edmond city council received the results of a housing needs assessment. One of the main things that was brought out was the need for affordable housing for low and middle income people. It said that housing in Edmond was affordable for 75% of the people who work in Edmond. This set off a fire storm from people at the council meeting. I guess with the current cost of housing both rental and ownership is being pushed out of the realm for alot of people. I dont think this is only the case for Edmond. Thoughts on "affordable housing". I personally live on an acreage in a smaller home, I am set except that Edmond is or is about to grow up to me. Ok just want folks 3 cents on this. My thought is for builders to build smaller homes on smaller lots for first time home buyers. I mean like the post ww 2 homes, 2bed, 1 bath or 11/2 bath, maybe with a convertable attic area that could become another bedroom and bath, with prebuilt stairs going up. Thoughts???
or maybe even 1 bed, 1 bath starters too.

The term "affordable housing" is relative and means something different to everyone. At the end of the day building costs are high and no developer is going to lose money by making rent lower than their costs. Some of the lowest affordable housing I have seen in the central business district is 1200.00 a month.

I think you meant its UNaffordable for 75% of the people who work in Edmond.

Not surprisingly, several people got up to protest as if they will be harmed from any of this. Some even think this is some kind of government handout. It was just a study showing that Edmond needs to allow and approve all different types of housing. Basically get government and NIMBYs out of the way and let the free market work. Big homes on acreages, small starter homes, condos, apartments...let them get built when someone wants to build them. Thats all this study is trying to say.

Yep I was thinking one thing and my old fingers typed another. ugh dont get old. My point is yes building is expensive but the city can set up a zoning class that allows for smaller single family homes on smaller lots. Maybe some kind of incentive for builders to build them ideally in the center part of town closer to smaller sized homes and closer to public transportation. With that said, leave areas of the east of I 35 set a side for acreage properties. Lots not build everything on small lot s and mixed use. Lets have a mixed of property types.
As far as multifamily apartments next planning commission meeting another one comes up behind Aldi's. Good location for such. Another one around 33rd and Kelly I think was approved with little or no opposition. They just need to be built in appropriate locations.

Great points here.

What to make of this;
State of Oklahoma Commissioners of the Land Office paid Shartel Associates LLC $9,300,000 for 64,213-square-foot Shartel Plaza, 5120 N Shartel Ave. Tre Dupuy and Ian Self handled the transaction.

What to make of this;
State of Oklahoma Commissioners of the Land Office paid Shartel Associates LLC $9,300,000 for 64,213-square-foot Shartel Plaza, 5120 N Shartel Ave. Tre Dupuy and Ian Self handled the transaction.

That is the shopping center just north of 50th & Shartel; actually on either side of Shartel but not including the CVS.

That state agency makes real estate investments and then the income (they lease the commercial space or do ground-leases on land) helps fund the State Department of Education. It's the same group that bought Sandridge Tower which is now called Oklahoma Commons.

But this property is an outlier and different than most the things they buy. Also, the month before the state bought it, it changed hands and then a month later the new owner sold it again to the state for a $5 million mark-up. Something seems off here.

That is the shopping center just north of 50th & Shartel; actually on either side of Shartel but not including the CVS.

That state agency makes real estate investments and then the income (they lease the commercial space or do ground-leases on land) helps fund the State Department of Education. It's the same group that bought Sandridge Tower which is now called Oklahoma Commons.

But this property is an outlier and different than most the things they buy. Also, the month before the state bought it, it changed hands and then a month later the new owner sold it again to the state for a $5 million mark-up. Something seems off here.

Thank you! I didn't know that's how they operated. Or to that extent. I miss Shartel Cafe.

I miss Shartel Cafe.
Why? It’s open.

Why? It’s open.

It is? I thought it closed when the one downtown closed. Awesome I'm glad it's still open!!

I think you meant its UNaffordable for 75% of the people who work in Edmond.

Not surprisingly, several people got up to protest as if they will be harmed from any of this. Some even think this is some kind of government handout. It was just a study showing that Edmond needs to allow and approve all different types of housing. Basically get government and NIMBYs out of the way and let the free market work. Big homes on acreages, small starter homes, condos, apartments...let them get built when someone wants to build them. Thats all this study is trying to say.

Developers in Edmond and elsewhere have taken away much of the upside of development for the local tax base--particularly with housing which tends to as a matter of course, factor in a good amount of TIF funding.

So there's that. And when I see developers whining about NIMBY effots stopping their "affordable" housing, I'll believe it when I see all of those sub $1,000 rents in their proposed developments coming to fruition. And as I've pointed out in many other threads, a commercial property has about a 20 year depreciation rate. After that, at least in Edmond, we've seen a lot of secondary owners who tend to run properties into the ground.

Think back 20 years in Edmond, many of the then "nicest" complexes are now pretty terrible and poorly maintained. Yes, sometimes folks will redevelop older properties and make them nice, and there are some great examples of that in OKC. In Edmond? Not so much--and property owners aren't going to be willing to take the chance that they end up getting a lucky draw and wind up with complex owners who are interested in doing any more than taking profit.

There is nothing wrong with property owners looking out for their own interests. Developers look after theirs.

It is? I thought it closed when the one downtown closed. Awesome I'm glad it's still open!!
Yep. There was one downtown?

Developers in Edmond and elsewhere have taken away much of the upside of development for the local tax base--particularly with housing which tends to as a matter of course, factor in a good amount of TIF funding.

So there's that. And when I see developers whining about NIMBY effots stopping their "affordable" housing, I'll believe it when I see all of those sub $1,000 rents in their proposed developments coming to fruition. And as I've pointed out in many other threads, a commercial property has about a 20 year depreciation rate. After that, at least in Edmond, we've seen a lot of secondary owners who tend to run properties into the ground.

Think back 20 years in Edmond, many of the then "nicest" complexes are now pretty terrible and poorly maintained. Yes, sometimes folks will redevelop older properties and make them nice, and there are some great examples of that in OKC. In Edmond? Not so much--and property owners aren't going to be willing to take the chance that they end up getting a lucky draw and wind up with complex owners who are interested in doing any more than taking profit.

There is nothing wrong with property owners looking out for their own interests. Developers look after theirs.
Depreciation for commercial residential is 27.5 years. But that doesn’t mean that if fully depreciated it has no value or the owner just wants to let it go. It just means the cost basis is zero and they no longer have a non-cash depreciation expense (unless they’ve made improvements) to offset income. When operating costs are greater than income, cash flow becomes negative, and cap ex won’t improve income enough to cover cap costs and make income positive, then owner has to cut costs and it’s a downward spiral.

Depreciation for commercial residential is 27.5 years. But that doesn’t mean that if fully depreciated it has no value or the owner just wants to let it go. It just means the cost basis is zero and they no longer have a non-cash depreciation expense (unless they’ve made improvements) to offset income. When operating costs are greater than income, cash flow becomes negative, and cap ex won’t improve income enough to cover cap costs and make income positive, then owner has to cut costs and it’s a downward spiral.

My apologies, I'm working off of memory from an income tax class I had in law school circa 2008, re the depreciation number--but yeah, that's my point exactly--the businses model of commercial residential tends, in time, to leave properties run down with owners having no incentive to do anything other than to continue to take profit. Yes, some properties do redevelop. I think there's a pretty great success story brewing with that complex at NW Expressway and MacArthur, but just up the road from there are the Lyrewood aprartments which are pretty uniformly terrible, about 30 years old and the only reason anything gets improved is because occasionally something burns down.

Even if these developments are nice when they're built, in the long run, they are ticking time bombs for the community. I understand the development going in at Hallmark Farms will be largely stripped of multifamily and will be office/retail space, which I 100% welcome. I would have even loved to see an Aldi...

Good for you, I think you'll get that chance in 2025. You're also building equity vs renting in the meantime and will have locked in any price gains that are surely to come when rates do go back down. One way or the other when you're financing real estate it's almost always to cheaper to buy in the present vs wait if the other option is renting. When rates do go back down some it won't be surprising at all if prices are up significantly to match the demand. We have years of pent up demand on hand.As a commercial banker, I hear clients and people in general talk about "when rates go back down." This, of course, is conjecture and wishful thinking.

While rates HAVE risen dramatically over the last couple years, we are still experiencing residential mortgage rates that are comparable to the historical average. Anyone waiting around for rates to magically fall back to the 3-4% range we experienced since 2000 may be waiting a long, long while. There are literally ZERO current economic indicators that point to this happening in the foreseeable future.

Developers in Edmond and elsewhere have taken away much of the upside of development for the local tax base--particularly with housing which tends to as a matter of course, factor in a good amount of TIF funding.

So there's that. And when I see developers whining about NIMBY effots stopping their "affordable" housing, I'll believe it when I see all of those sub $1,000 rents in their proposed developments coming to fruition. And as I've pointed out in many other threads, a commercial property has about a 20 year depreciation rate. After that, at least in Edmond, we've seen a lot of secondary owners who tend to run properties into the ground.

Think back 20 years in Edmond, many of the then "nicest" complexes are now pretty terrible and poorly maintained. Yes, sometimes folks will redevelop older properties and make them nice, and there are some great examples of that in OKC. In Edmond? Not so much--and property owners aren't going to be willing to take the chance that they end up getting a lucky draw and wind up with complex owners who are interested in doing any more than taking profit.

There is nothing wrong with property owners looking out for their own interests. Developers look after theirs.

Im not sure of any truly affordable housing being proposed much less built in Edmond. IMO, true affordable housing means subsidized, or at least income based rents. None of that has happened that Im aware of. In Edmond's case, it just means something thats not $500,000 for a single family home. There have been some apartments approved recently and will get built soon, which is good. There also needs to be less pushback when a builder wants to build 4 homes per acre rather than just 1.

And for every example of a 30 year old apartment complex that is run down, you can find probably 9 that are maintained well and still doing fine 30 years later. Landlords have a strong incentive to keep their properties in good shape so they can continue to earn strong rents.